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If we can move Melo this summer, do you keep Rose?
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nixluva
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2/24/2017  10:25 AM
Dolan needs to continue to stay out of it!!! Phil and his team should be given the full time to rebuild this roster.

The entire roster isn't bad as some seem to be assuming. The team lacks LEADERSHIP!!! It's not easy to find real leaders but that is a top of the list requirement for the players we draft from here on. Not just talent but being a leader and about team and winning.

Phil and his team need to be allowed to find the guards and wings of the future for this team.

AUTOADVERT
EnySpree
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2/24/2017  10:26 AM
To answer the titles question....

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smackeddog
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2/24/2017  11:21 AM
franco12 wrote:He's younger, and while a bad fit in the triangle with Melo, he might be great without Melo as the attacking focus similar to Harden in Houston. Maybe we need to tweak the system, but I do like his abilities to attack the basket and his mid range pull up.

Yes defense is a challenge, but without our other red cape on defense, we might be able to make it work.

I certainly don't max him out in money or years- 3 years to line up with Lee & Noah, maybe $20m per.

Maybe this is Phil's direction?

why would you even suggest such a thing?!

Rose is good at penetrating to the basket. Great- can you come up with one other thing he brings (and I mean thats seriously- I genuinely can't). With that:

he can't draw fouls
his attitude stinks
he quit on the team
he doesn't play defense
he doesnt try
he's injury prone
he sulks
he thinks he's worth big money
he's has no bball IQ (neither do I but I'm not the friggin point guard!)

franco12
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2/24/2017  4:42 PM
smackeddog wrote:
franco12 wrote:He's younger, and while a bad fit in the triangle with Melo, he might be great without Melo as the attacking focus similar to Harden in Houston. Maybe we need to tweak the system, but I do like his abilities to attack the basket and his mid range pull up.

Yes defense is a challenge, but without our other red cape on defense, we might be able to make it work.

I certainly don't max him out in money or years- 3 years to line up with Lee & Noah, maybe $20m per.

Maybe this is Phil's direction?

why would you even suggest such a thing?!

Rose is good at penetrating to the basket. Great- can you come up with one other thing he brings (and I mean thats seriously- I genuinely can't). With that:

he can't draw fouls
his attitude stinks
he quit on the team
he doesn't play defense
he doesnt try
he's injury prone
he sulks
he thinks he's worth big money
he's has no bball IQ (neither do I but I'm not the friggin point guard!)

I'm just thinking like our FO might be. If you just let Rose walk, that is an asset.

He is all of those bad things, but what he does do well is incredibly important especially during the playoffs when scoring is at a premium.

I'm thinking maybe next years if Melo were gone, you sign Rose to 3 years $20m per, stop with the triangle, give him support with a better system that takes advantage of his talent and get some better wing defenders with 3 pt range and maybe you have something.

I was not a fan of the move to bring him and Noah in.

But in today's NBA, you need offense and you need dribble penetration.

StarksEwing1
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2/24/2017  4:45 PM
franco12 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
franco12 wrote:He's younger, and while a bad fit in the triangle with Melo, he might be great without Melo as the attacking focus similar to Harden in Houston. Maybe we need to tweak the system, but I do like his abilities to attack the basket and his mid range pull up.

Yes defense is a challenge, but without our other red cape on defense, we might be able to make it work.

I certainly don't max him out in money or years- 3 years to line up with Lee & Noah, maybe $20m per.

Maybe this is Phil's direction?

why would you even suggest such a thing?!

Rose is good at penetrating to the basket. Great- can you come up with one other thing he brings (and I mean thats seriously- I genuinely can't). With that:

he can't draw fouls
his attitude stinks
he quit on the team
he doesn't play defense
he doesnt try
he's injury prone
he sulks
he thinks he's worth big money
he's has no bball IQ (neither do I but I'm not the friggin point guard!)

I'm just thinking like our FO might be. If you just let Rose walk, that is an asset.

He is all of those bad things, but what he does do well is incredibly important especially during the playoffs when scoring is at a premium.

I'm thinking maybe next years if Melo were gone, you sign Rose to 3 years $20m per, stop with the triangle, give him support with a better system that takes advantage of his talent and get some better wing defenders with 3 pt range and maybe you have something.

I was not a fan of the move to bring him and Noah in.

But in today's NBA, you need offense and you need dribble penetration.

he isnt a asset if he only does one thing. He is a goner and its the smart move
CrushAlot
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2/24/2017  4:51 PM
No. He needs to go.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
nyknickzingis
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2/24/2017  6:19 PM
I am open to it if three things happen

1- Melo is traded
2- We get a starting point guard that moves Rose to the 2 in the offense
3- Rose commits to a role where he goes out early in Qs and comes back as the leader of the 2nd unit

And the big one - financially he takes a $60M/3 year deal.

Fat chance all that happens but if it did I'd consider it.

nixluva
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2/24/2017  6:49 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:I am open to it if three things happen

1- Melo is traded
2- We get a starting point guard that moves Rose to the 2 in the offense
3- Rose commits to a role where he goes out early in Qs and comes back as the leader of the 2nd unit

And the big one - financially he takes a $60M/3 year deal.

Fat chance all that happens but if it did I'd consider it.

My view is Rose just doesn't fit the style of play, even as a SG. He clearly has the driving ability but lacks the court vision and will to pass. Rose should be an elite drive n kick guard but he puts his head down and doesn't respond to the defense collapsing to stop him.

On top of this he doesn't stretch the floor. I had hopes Rose really meant what he said about wanting to setup his teammates but he's just not done it.

franco12
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2/24/2017  6:52 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
franco12 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
franco12 wrote:He's younger, and while a bad fit in the triangle with Melo, he might be great without Melo as the attacking focus similar to Harden in Houston. Maybe we need to tweak the system, but I do like his abilities to attack the basket and his mid range pull up.

Yes defense is a challenge, but without our other red cape on defense, we might be able to make it work.

I certainly don't max him out in money or years- 3 years to line up with Lee & Noah, maybe $20m per.

Maybe this is Phil's direction?

why would you even suggest such a thing?!

Rose is good at penetrating to the basket. Great- can you come up with one other thing he brings (and I mean thats seriously- I genuinely can't). With that:

he can't draw fouls
his attitude stinks
he quit on the team
he doesn't play defense
he doesnt try
he's injury prone
he sulks
he thinks he's worth big money
he's has no bball IQ (neither do I but I'm not the friggin point guard!)

I'm just thinking like our FO might be. If you just let Rose walk, that is an asset.

He is all of those bad things, but what he does do well is incredibly important especially during the playoffs when scoring is at a premium.

I'm thinking maybe next years if Melo were gone, you sign Rose to 3 years $20m per, stop with the triangle, give him support with a better system that takes advantage of his talent and get some better wing defenders with 3 pt range and maybe you have something.

I was not a fan of the move to bring him and Noah in.

But in today's NBA, you need offense and you need dribble penetration.

he isnt a asset if he only does one thing. He is a goner and its the smart move

Dennis Rodman did one thing.

I'll grant you that his negatives probably do outweigh his positives.

nixluva
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2/24/2017  7:08 PM
franco12 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
franco12 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
franco12 wrote:He's younger, and while a bad fit in the triangle with Melo, he might be great without Melo as the attacking focus similar to Harden in Houston. Maybe we need to tweak the system, but I do like his abilities to attack the basket and his mid range pull up.

Yes defense is a challenge, but without our other red cape on defense, we might be able to make it work.

I certainly don't max him out in money or years- 3 years to line up with Lee & Noah, maybe $20m per.

Maybe this is Phil's direction?

why would you even suggest such a thing?!

Rose is good at penetrating to the basket. Great- can you come up with one other thing he brings (and I mean thats seriously- I genuinely can't). With that:

he can't draw fouls
his attitude stinks
he quit on the team
he doesn't play defense
he doesnt try
he's injury prone
he sulks
he thinks he's worth big money
he's has no bball IQ (neither do I but I'm not the friggin point guard!)

I'm just thinking like our FO might be. If you just let Rose walk, that is an asset.

He is all of those bad things, but what he does do well is incredibly important especially during the playoffs when scoring is at a premium.

I'm thinking maybe next years if Melo were gone, you sign Rose to 3 years $20m per, stop with the triangle, give him support with a better system that takes advantage of his talent and get some better wing defenders with 3 pt range and maybe you have something.

I was not a fan of the move to bring him and Noah in.

But in today's NBA, you need offense and you need dribble penetration.

he isnt a asset if he only does one thing. He is a goner and its the smart move

Dennis Rodman did one thing.

I'll grant you that his negatives probably do outweigh his positives.

Rodman or in modern times Tristan Thompson are specialists at positions you can afford to have a specialist. Rose is playing at PG where you need a more well rounded and unselfish player.

yellowboy90
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2/24/2017  7:19 PM
franco12 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
franco12 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
franco12 wrote:He's younger, and while a bad fit in the triangle with Melo, he might be great without Melo as the attacking focus similar to Harden in Houston. Maybe we need to tweak the system, but I do like his abilities to attack the basket and his mid range pull up.

Yes defense is a challenge, but without our other red cape on defense, we might be able to make it work.

I certainly don't max him out in money or years- 3 years to line up with Lee & Noah, maybe $20m per.

Maybe this is Phil's direction?

why would you even suggest such a thing?!

Rose is good at penetrating to the basket. Great- can you come up with one other thing he brings (and I mean thats seriously- I genuinely can't). With that:

he can't draw fouls
his attitude stinks
he quit on the team
he doesn't play defense
he doesnt try
he's injury prone
he sulks
he thinks he's worth big money
he's has no bball IQ (neither do I but I'm not the friggin point guard!)

I'm just thinking like our FO might be. If you just let Rose walk, that is an asset.

He is all of those bad things, but what he does do well is incredibly important especially during the playoffs when scoring is at a premium.

I'm thinking maybe next years if Melo were gone, you sign Rose to 3 years $20m per, stop with the triangle, give him support with a better system that takes advantage of his talent and get some better wing defenders with 3 pt range and maybe you have something.

I was not a fan of the move to bring him and Noah in.

But in today's NBA, you need offense and you need dribble penetration.

he isnt a asset if he only does one thing. He is a goner and its the smart move

Dennis Rodman did one thing.

I'll grant you that his negatives probably do outweigh his positives.

Rodman actually did two things but those two things he did he was elite at. Even as an mid 30s player he was the best rebounder in the league and defended as well as anyone despite being the size of today s small forwards. He actually could handle Shaw in the most with moderate help. Rodman was a freak of nature and of he would have played in the space, pace, and 3 culture he would've probably been an elite offensive PnR finisher throughout his career.

meloshouldgo
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2/24/2017  7:28 PM
franco12 wrote:He's younger, and while a bad fit in the triangle with Melo, he might be great without Melo as the attacking focus similar to Harden in Houston. Maybe we need to tweak the system, but I do like his abilities to attack the basket and his mid range pull up.

Yes defense is a challenge, but without our other red cape on defense, we might be able to make it work.

I certainly don't max him out in money or years- 3 years to line up with Lee & Noah, maybe $20m per.

Maybe this is Phil's direction?

We don't need no defense, ball hogging chuckers on this team. Next question.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
Allanfan20
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2/24/2017  7:35 PM
He's a point guard who can't shoot, play defense or pass the ball. At this point, Marbury seems like a hall of famer compared to Rose and no, I don't want him back either. I don't care if he reaches all star level this season. Just because you are an all star doesn't mean you elevate your team.

And for those saying :"We can't get free agents."... Well why don't we wait and see?

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
smackeddog
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2/25/2017  4:38 AM
Allanfan20 wrote:He's a point guard who can't shoot, play defense or pass the ball. At this point, Marbury seems like a hall of famer compared to Rose and no, I don't want him back either. I don't care if he reaches all star level this season. Just because you are an all star doesn't mean you elevate your team.

And for those saying :"We can't get free agents."... Well why don't we wait and see?

We don't need free agents this offseason, we should only use our cap space to help facilitate trades or deals for picks, or to pick up players that have fallen through the cracks in free agency. Keep Phil for the next two seasons so we stay committed to rebuilding via the draft.

Look at the list of FAs this offseasons, who do we honestly need?:

http://hoopshype.com/2017/01/25/nba-free-agency-2017-the-top-players/

TripleThreat
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2/25/2017  5:59 AM
holfresh wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:Absolutely not

Care to add a thought??


Be leery of any veteran NBA guard who

A) Is not constantly working to create at minimum, a league effective and average, three point shot

or

B) If they have, at least, a league effective and average three point, does not seek to improve upon it

The reliance on the three ball isn't some new revelation. The sea of change was coming for a long time and you'd have to be blind and deaf to be an NBA player and not see it coming. Even with that, some players just didn't care. Dwayne Wade didn't care. Kobe Bryant didn't care. Derrick Rose did not and does not care. Rose had a ton of down time while injured, time he could have been working an an elite three point shot. He's got the raw talent to have one, if he worked on it. If he had one, odds are he'd still be with the Bulls right now.

Dirk Nowitzki just used to be an elite Stretch 4 when he was still developing. It took and blood to develop more aspects to his game, back to the basket, some moves to attack the rim, improving as a passer from the high post. The players you want, at any level, are constantly trying to get better and develop more skills.

I do not think Courtney Lee is going to be a good player for the Knicks in Year 3 and Year 4 of that contract. However the guy has built himself into the best player he can be. In that regard, that should be a baseline to consider for any future Knick on the roster.

Rose refusing to develop an effective three point shot only goes down two ugly roads. Either he's totally ignorant of how the game has developed ( not that likely) or he just doesn't care and is too arrogant to care ( which sadly is probably more likely) Either way, you don't want a player like that on your team.

nyknickzingis
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2/25/2017  7:47 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/25/2017  7:51 AM
Rose could be effective as a 2 if his backcourt mate was a great passing and 3 point shooting threat who was a versatile defender. Lee can shoot but isn't a passing/point guard type.

Austin Rivers would be interesting because he has a 3 point shot, can pass and drive. I would have liked to see the Clippers trade go through just to see what they would have looked like together. Obviously Clippers would need to get us a couple future draft picks as well which they did not seem to have.

I do think Rose is a more valuable player without Melo. Same for Melo. They make each other worse. I would have liked to have seen what Rose looks like without Melo. In the end though, it is what it is. Rose is not worth the investment. If the Knicks can get him on a bargain contract I would consider it. Otherwise see ya.

HofstraBBall
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2/25/2017  8:46 AM
I would lock him up for the max and extend Noah to max as well. Then I would bench them and let KP and Willy singlehandedly take on the world. Or maybe add our great draft picks to help them, but only in 4th quarter if they need it. The Draft picks will probably turn out to be the best players of all time within 2 years.

Don't think it matters what we do. No one is coming to this **** show. And all we will have to do for the next 5 years is listen to everyone on here cream about mediocre talent that they think will be the next MJ. Good times.
Agree with full rebuild. That includes Phil, Dolan, etc etc. And u am sure we won't follow the path of those great Knick teams of 2001 through 2013.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
StarksEwing1
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2/25/2017  8:51 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:I would lock him up for the max and extend Noah to max as well. Then I would bench them and let KP and Willy singlehandedly take on the world. Or maybe add our great draft picks to help them, but only in 4th quarter if they need it. The Draft picks will probably turn out to be the best players of all time within 2 years.

Don't think it matters what we do. No one is coming to this **** show. And all we will have to do for the next 5 years is listen to everyone on here cream about mediocre talent that they think will be the next MJ. Good times.
Agree with full rebuild. That includes Phil, Dolan, etc etc. And u am sure we won't follow the path of those great Knick teams of 2001 through 2013.

well i agree with your last sentence. Clean house and do a real rebuild. We have a good start with KP and Willy but we need to continue drafting well and staying away from bad contracts
nixluva
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2/25/2017  9:16 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:I would lock him up for the max and extend Noah to max as well. Then I would bench them and let KP and Willy singlehandedly take on the world. Or maybe add our great draft picks to help them, but only in 4th quarter if they need it. The Draft picks will probably turn out to be the best players of all time within 2 years.

Don't think it matters what we do. No one is coming to this **** show. And all we will have to do for the next 5 years is listen to everyone on here cream about mediocre talent that they think will be the next MJ. Good times.
Agree with full rebuild. That includes Phil, Dolan, etc etc. And u am sure we won't follow the path of those great Knick teams of 2001 through 2013.

Not sure what you're really proposing. The issues with Melo don't mean much given the fact that no top Free Agent signed here to play with Melo anyway!!! So the stuff Phil did with Melo doesn't even matter.

The way forward is thru the Draft. Why you keep making fun of that is beyond me. How do any of the top Free Agents you covet getting into the league if not thru the DRAFT!!! Yeah that's how players get into the NBA for the most part. So it's not stupid to at least try to find CORE TALENT in the Draft.

This summer's draft and next summer should be where this team builds up its main talent base!!! Low cost young talent is something we haven't tried but now it's a very realistic plan.

StarksEwing1
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2/25/2017  9:22 AM
nixluva wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:I would lock him up for the max and extend Noah to max as well. Then I would bench them and let KP and Willy singlehandedly take on the world. Or maybe add our great draft picks to help them, but only in 4th quarter if they need it. The Draft picks will probably turn out to be the best players of all time within 2 years.

Don't think it matters what we do. No one is coming to this **** show. And all we will have to do for the next 5 years is listen to everyone on here cream about mediocre talent that they think will be the next MJ. Good times.
Agree with full rebuild. That includes Phil, Dolan, etc etc. And u am sure we won't follow the path of those great Knick teams of 2001 through 2013.

Not sure what you're really proposing. The issues with Melo don't mean much given the fact that no top Free Agent signed here to play with Melo anyway!!! So the stuff Phil did with Melo doesn't even matter.

The way forward is thru the Draft. Why you keep making fun of that is beyond me. How do any of the top Free Agents you covet getting into the league if not thru the DRAFT!!! Yeah that's how players get into the NBA for the most part. So it's not stupid to at least try to find CORE TALENT in the Draft.

This summer's draft and next summer should be where this team builds up its main talent base!!! Low cost young talent is something we haven't tried but now it's a very realistic plan.

For some reason some dont believe in drafting or building a team through it. Lets be real for 16 years we tried the "starphuck" approach by trading most of our picks and we ended up worse. Now its time to focus on the draft for a change.
If we can move Melo this summer, do you keep Rose?

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