Nalod wrote:

fishmike wrote:Knicks have 2 weeks to decide what the plan is. If they show signs of life and they start winning some games OK, then you stay on course and work on getting this group into the playoffs.

If the Knicks decide to be sellers simple be transparent with Melo. Tell them they may look to move some guys to aquire more future pieces and they are going to focus on the draft. If Melo is good with sticking through those times I would simply make it clear what we expect from him a player.

Essentially these are the kinds of situations the Knicks totally screw up.

Mostly Melo does not want to take a public relations hit on this, and I'll take it as his word that he does not want to move.
He has two more years on his contract and if he moves to a contender, like the Clippers, he will be the last man standing because all the contracts expire before. Thus, more turmoil for him.
I don't see a deal with Cleveland unless they move Love, and then Melo is the PF? Do we even want Love? For now, he and KP are similar.
He is not going to Houstan with MDA. Never say never.
Melo to Lakers, but I'd want some yoot in return. Not a contender, but a starphuch with better weather.
Miami would be a good place for him, but Riles is rebuilding.
Boston could be good, but it would be hard to send salary back to us and we need that brooklyn pick!!!
Celts would be potentially giving up franchise talent. There could be a scenario where we can swap for the pick, thus they still get a very good pick likely. In a deep draft, they could actually do just as good if they pick right.

arkrud wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Nalod wrote:

fishmike wrote:Knicks have 2 weeks to decide what the plan is. If they show signs of life and they start winning some games OK, then you stay on course and work on getting this group into the playoffs.

If the Knicks decide to be sellers simple be transparent with Melo. Tell them they may look to move some guys to aquire more future pieces and they are going to focus on the draft. If Melo is good with sticking through those times I would simply make it clear what we expect from him a player.

Essentially these are the kinds of situations the Knicks totally screw up.

Mostly Melo does not want to take a public relations hit on this, and I'll take it as his word that he does not want to move.
He has two more years on his contract and if he moves to a contender, like the Clippers, he will be the last man standing because all the contracts expire before. Thus, more turmoil for him.
I don't see a deal with Cleveland unless they move Love, and then Melo is the PF? Do we even want Love? For now, he and KP are similar.
He is not going to Houstan with MDA. Never say never.
Melo to Lakers, but I'd want some yoot in return. Not a contender, but a starphuch with better weather.
Miami would be a good place for him, but Riles is rebuilding.
Boston could be good, but it would be hard to send salary back to us and we need that brooklyn pick!!!
Celts would be potentially giving up franchise talent. There could be a scenario where we can swap for the pick, thus they still get a very good pick likely. In a deep draft, they could actually do just as good if they pick right.

Love would be fine because thats a flippable asset for sure. I bet you could get Brewer/Ariza/Beverly and a pair of #1s for Love and Baker to Houston. Something like that... I think Love is moveable commodity if you wanted to get another team involved. Cle has some other parts they could use as well. Not to focus on that specifically, just that there are plenty of options IMO. Sadly I dont talk to NBA GMs

If Cle will lose the chip to Warriors they may consider to rent Melo for a year. Kind of to compensate KD...
Cle sucks for Melo as a city but he can win a chip or at least make a run and enjoy a lot winning around LeBron and Irving.
And they will keep him in check form ISO to much.
Nice way to retire for him. Glorious...

But would Boston want KLove for that first rounder? If not, then what's the point for the Knicks. Love has no passion for NYC. We'd need any move of Melo to actually improve our draft prospects.

newyorker4ever wrote:

Chandler wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

EnySpree wrote:It's not about Phil. It's about Melo. He needs to pass the ball. He holds it way too much. It kills games. We can't give it to him 7-8 plays straight. It kills the momentum.... dont get me wrong we need Melo to do his thing....but not every time down. He's got to move the ball. Hornacek isn't calling for Melo to iso. You can see Melo stalling where you have to give it to him.

I'm frustrated with the bull**** now. It's not all on Melo. Rose calls his number too and has been turning the ball over and bypassing open players to jam it inside....the refs aren't giving him calls. Noah is a step slow on every play. The perimeter defense keeps getting caught in the paint... it's like wtf.

Melo has been doing much better with the iso though. He only really does now when his guys aren't moving around enough and one doesn't get open for him to pass it to and then he'll go iso cause the clock is running down.

maybe he is doing a little better, but not last night to end the third when he got complacent and he thought he was entitled to go 1 on 5. And if he didn't hit those clutch shots last night (intermixed with boneheaded D on a 93% FT shooter)we'd be saying a different story. I was very glad to see him go to the rim more, and hope he does try to move the ball more.

the whole team plays better on offense and defense when the ball moves. Our win last night and against the Celts was because of the second unit, not Melo.

Ummmmmmmmmm.....Melo didn't win that game last night?? The 2nd unit did great to get us back in that game for sure and there's no denying that but Melo won that game in the end.

Nalod wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

Chandler wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

EnySpree wrote:It's not about Phil. It's about Melo. He needs to pass the ball. He holds it way too much. It kills games. We can't give it to him 7-8 plays straight. It kills the momentum.... dont get me wrong we need Melo to do his thing....but not every time down. He's got to move the ball. Hornacek isn't calling for Melo to iso. You can see Melo stalling where you have to give it to him.

I'm frustrated with the bull**** now. It's not all on Melo. Rose calls his number too and has been turning the ball over and bypassing open players to jam it inside....the refs aren't giving him calls. Noah is a step slow on every play. The perimeter defense keeps getting caught in the paint... it's like wtf.

Melo has been doing much better with the iso though. He only really does now when his guys aren't moving around enough and one doesn't get open for him to pass it to and then he'll go iso cause the clock is running down.

maybe he is doing a little better, but not last night to end the third when he got complacent and he thought he was entitled to go 1 on 5. And if he didn't hit those clutch shots last night (intermixed with boneheaded D on a 93% FT shooter)we'd be saying a different story. I was very glad to see him go to the rim more, and hope he does try to move the ball more.

the whole team plays better on offense and defense when the ball moves. Our win last night and against the Celts was because of the second unit, not Melo.

Ummmmmmmmmm.....Melo didn't win that game last night?? The 2nd unit did great to get us back in that game for sure and there's no denying that but Melo won that game in the end.

This. Also, there is a school of thought that Phil doesn't want to be seen as the bad guy that tells Melo to leave. He wants it to appear Melo is abandoning NY.

Im not sure that is entirely true. Phil can sell moving Melo as "Direction changing move" but seems a bit premature to bail on the current squad. I don't think this team is unfixable.
Dolan and knicks really do need to make the playoffs and I would not expect a late season trade. Melo MIGHT ( I don't speak for him)find it undesirable to join a team for the last 25 games for two reasons:

1. Is it a real chip if you just join for a playoff run? Might seem "Poser", not gratifying, and not brand building.
2. Cavs are the champs. If he goes to Cle and they don't win, he will get blasted regardless of fault.

Thus I think a deal is highly unlikely. Steven A. is really making a reach and it helps his ratings.
Im only using logic as my guildline.

Back on point, I don't think Phil cares about being the bad guy here. If its right for the franchise He'll do it. Right now the team is not turned on their coach, nor are they playing god awful basketball.
They are having chemistry problems. Some of it is not all bad, we have Baker and Willy playing very well at times. Kuz looked lost in Indy, but his play has been good.

We as fans were ready to dump KOQ at the start of the season and now he is playing real well. Its a long season, one that is only half finished. Or half still to go! Depends on how you look at it!

devils advocate: given Melo's age, clevland is by far the best opportunity for him to get a chip. GS is stacked and doesn't want him. SAS don't want him for same reasons. Clevland could want him at PF because they feel they need more scoring against GS? Love or Tristan Thomas would have to be involved somehow

Having said that, I don't see it happening. I think we're stuck with Melo and that's ok. We just need to start treating him for what he is, a very good, star (but not superstar) player.

Chandler wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

Chandler wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

EnySpree wrote:It's not about Phil. It's about Melo. He needs to pass the ball. He holds it way too much. It kills games. We can't give it to him 7-8 plays straight. It kills the momentum.... dont get me wrong we need Melo to do his thing....but not every time down. He's got to move the ball. Hornacek isn't calling for Melo to iso. You can see Melo stalling where you have to give it to him.

I'm frustrated with the bull**** now. It's not all on Melo. Rose calls his number too and has been turning the ball over and bypassing open players to jam it inside....the refs aren't giving him calls. Noah is a step slow on every play. The perimeter defense keeps getting caught in the paint... it's like wtf.

Melo has been doing much better with the iso though. He only really does now when his guys aren't moving around enough and one doesn't get open for him to pass it to and then he'll go iso cause the clock is running down.

maybe he is doing a little better, but not last night to end the third when he got complacent and he thought he was entitled to go 1 on 5. And if he didn't hit those clutch shots last night (intermixed with boneheaded D on a 93% FT shooter)we'd be saying a different story. I was very glad to see him go to the rim more, and hope he does try to move the ball more.

the whole team plays better on offense and defense when the ball moves. Our win last night and against the Celts was because of the second unit, not Melo.

Ummmmmmmmmm.....Melo didn't win that game last night?? The 2nd unit did great to get us back in that game for sure and there's no denying that but Melo won that game in the end.

no doubt he came up big when it mattered most, but FWIW he was -1 and many of the bench guys were like +10. I am very happy he hit that shot (both for the team's sake and his own confidence going forward); i still think he's too content to trade baskets with other team

That's really the important point. Melo is such a dependable scorer (albeit on volume shooting in an offense-disrupting iso mode, and nowadays not THAT dependable) that he feels like he can shoot his way into keeping games close, then pull out a win in the final seconds.

We need a leader who focuses on team dynamics, not personal scoring ability. We need a leader who shows defensive grit, who hustles all the time, who elevates his entire team. That's not Melo. Not even close.

WaltLongmire wrote:Hard to have Anthony and Rose on the same team.

You look at James and Irving and you know that James can be a Melo type scorer, but can also be a true point forward and the facilitate for the entire offense.

Anthony had his best year ever assist-wise last year, but can never be the kind distributor James has been (7.0APG for his career!).

I think our offense would have similar issues if Irving was our PG, despite the fact that he's better than Rose at this point, although Irving's 3pt shooting is a very big difference, and would help spread the offense more.

I think Rose is more of an issue than Anthony, therefore, but Anthony has more value than him at this point.

Cavs would be a good fit for him if they could pick up another PG...I'm not a Love fan, though, and would rather do a 3way.
My post on another thread was to do a 3 way with Boston to get some of their picks, with Love going to them and Anthony to the Cavs.

Rose is like a PG version of Amare. A bull to the basket with explosiveness.

CrushAlot wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

Chandler wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

EnySpree wrote:It's not about Phil. It's about Melo. He needs to pass the ball. He holds it way too much. It kills games. We can't give it to him 7-8 plays straight. It kills the momentum.... dont get me wrong we need Melo to do his thing....but not every time down. He's got to move the ball. Hornacek isn't calling for Melo to iso. You can see Melo stalling where you have to give it to him.

I'm frustrated with the bull**** now. It's not all on Melo. Rose calls his number too and has been turning the ball over and bypassing open players to jam it inside....the refs aren't giving him calls. Noah is a step slow on every play. The perimeter defense keeps getting caught in the paint... it's like wtf.

Melo has been doing much better with the iso though. He only really does now when his guys aren't moving around enough and one doesn't get open for him to pass it to and then he'll go iso cause the clock is running down.

maybe he is doing a little better, but not last night to end the third when he got complacent and he thought he was entitled to go 1 on 5. And if he didn't hit those clutch shots last night (intermixed with boneheaded D on a 93% FT shooter)we'd be saying a different story. I was very glad to see him go to the rim more, and hope he does try to move the ball more.

the whole team plays better on offense and defense when the ball moves. Our win last night and against the Celts was because of the second unit, not Melo.

Ummmmmmmmmm.....Melo didn't win that game last night?? The 2nd unit did great to get us back in that game for sure and there's no denying that but Melo won that game in the end.

This. Also, there is a school of thought that Phil doesn't want to be seen as the bad guy that tells Melo to leave. He wants it to appear Melo is abandoning NY.

How hard is that?