Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

Vmart wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I think Kp should watch how jovic plays and add some of it to his game

For such a high iq player he has 0 passing game. He takes way too many stupid shots he needs to NOT have less than 7-8 rebounds at a minimum and he needs to be more of a force on d. So many facets of the game including style of play. I'm not worried he didn't get as many shots as rose he needs to do more of the other stuff. He took a 3 late in the game that was mind boggling bad

His inside game is so bad to. He has no kind of hookshot or under the basket play at all. All he'll do is start a drive to the basket and pull up for a jumper. KP is in no way ready to take over a team and once we're out of the playoff picture they should make him more of a focal point of the offense especially if the plan is to trade Melo.

This offseason the Knicks need to pay Kevin Mchale to sit down with him and talk to him about his game. then he needs about a month practicing with him. He does not play a good brand of basketball---he could be great but he has to relearn facets of the game.

He is getting a lot of Melo exposure. Which I think isn't good for him. The factor of inefficiency is rubbing off on him. I'll say it again there is no way a 7'3 player should be shooting below 50% no way yet KP is doing it. This is scary, this absolutely not a good sign.

There's a big difference when you have a big man like KP taking the majority of his shots from 15 to 26 feet from the basket and most other big men that take their shots with either lay ups or 5 to 10 feet from the basket.

That is an excuse.

And excuse for what? KP is a stretch 5, something the league has never seen before. If you want to make him out to be something he is not - a post/power player - then you can point to all the stats you want that focus on his lack of strength to operate down low. On the other hand, he is not Dwight Howard or D'Andre Jordan, and I would never lament the fact that those 2 guys SUCK at 3 point shots.

7'3 and now the 5 on the team. I have seen stretch PF shoot over 50%. He should be punishing small PFs down low. This is what is wrong with the Knicks. They don't know they have a player that can be efficient in scoring yet they have him hugging the three point line. I get it he can shoot the three at a good clip. But he averages about 3-4 a game if you watch the game he is way to far from the hoop on many occasions should be closer and those become high percentage shots.

I don't get it. We have a player that is more Dirk than Dwight Howard and you would like to only compare him to Dwight to show what he is lacking. Not a reasonable expectation.

KP has not filled his body out and indeed does struggle in the post. But why would you want to make him out to be something he is not?

KP is a young guy still figuring out his game. He is a better shooter and far better defender than Dirk was in his second year in the league.

And here is some more amazing stuff:

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/knicks-future-not-as-bleak-as-it-appears/

Porzingis has played a total of 108 games in his NBA career thus far. He has blocked 207 shots and knocked down 157 3-pointers. No only is he the first player in NBA history with more than 200 rejections and 150 treys this early in his career, but putting those stats in context helps to highlight their absurdity.

Porzingis has hit the same exact number of 3-pointers in his first 108 career games as Ray Allen did in Allen’s first 108 career contests. KP has more made treys than all-time great shooters such as James Harden, Michael Redd and Chauncey Billups to this point in their careers. In addition, he has blocked more shots in his first 108 games than Yao Ming (201) and Dwight Howard (175) did in their first 108 games.

Martin I'm not belittling KP's game I like what I see but there is a sure thing factor that his height gives him which I feel is not being exploited to its full capability. Believe it or not one day I would hope KP puts up 55% FG 40% three point FG and 90% FT. Young guy who works diligently at his craft I won't doubt that he may come close to this number. But The Knicks have to do better at making sure that aspect of 10 feet and in game is developed and used in the course of the game.

You mean 55% on 2 point FGs, right? The 3s will bring the overall FG% down enough that there's no way he would be at 55% overall. Otherwise, you're penalizing him for being a good 3 point shooter. He's at 48% on 2s right now, which is definitely below where he should be.

I think if they can get KP shooting more shots in the high percentage area. His two point FG can be anywhere from 58-60%. Now if KP can get more of those hotspot looks he will have a better chance at getting around 55% overall FG with of course improvements in three point shooting. So those numbers may look daunting but they are very do able. Because of his height. There have been players that have come close to those numbers already. Like LeBron and Durant and Curry. Now before I get ahead of myself not comparing KP to them.

HofstraBBall wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Wrote this in the game thread - but also applies here:

Really interested in seeing this lineup or type of rotation:

Hernangomez/Porzingis/Kuzminskas/Holiday/Rose
Plumlee/Kuzminskas/Holiday/Lee/Rose
Porzingis/Holiday/Lee/Baker/Jennings
Hernangomez/Porzingis/Lee/Baker/Jennings

Just to see what this team looks like without Melo, no Noah, and more for the future. Would also give them a great idea as to what type of players (role players) they would want back in Melo trade.

I think Rose given full freedom to run the team without Melo makes him a better more Westbrook like attacking PG. I've see him like to be in that role. KP needs a running mate even if he's got tunnel vision. I think the best thing that can happen to this team right now is to let Melo sit a few games and see what the team's real talent level is like, what type of player Rose still is an alpha and what needs we have in a Melo trade.

Think future Phil. Think future. We need to take the rest of the season to see the real potential of KP as a clear cut #2 option (fisrt option up front with Rose first option in the backcourt). We need to see more of Willy and Kuz against starting level talent in the league, same with Justin Holiday. We need to give Plumlee more time. We need to see what holes we have without Melo so when we (if) decide to deal Melo, we know what kind of veteran role players we need because we know we are going to have to take on some massive contracts back in a Melo trade.

If we do this right, we could end up with a future real fast in the present. Need to draft a good player in the lottery this year and then hopefully pick up some role players that fit the above mentioned team in a Melo trade (as well as a 1st round pick). Rose is 28, Holiday is 27, Kuz is 27, Kris is 21, Willy 22. That's a young starting 5 all with primes ahead of them or in their primes. Ensure in a Melo trade you get players in their 20's not 30's. Try to get a first round pick as well. It's all doable in my opinion.

And if we have a repeat of 2013 draft class? A repeat of every draft pick the Knicks have made since 1987? (Except for unicorn). Who by the way, can still become the Andrea Bargnani or Dirk Nowitski? Believe the latter but there is always that chance with young players. Or maybe Sam Bowie 2.0, with injuries? All possible. But let's keep it realistic, one minor reality....Melo has NTC!!!! Your not getting anything for him if other teams know he has a short list. And NO, I am not giving up our best player because you want "to give it a try" Or your trying to speed up KP being "The Guy" Thought we were all Knicks fans? Not player fans? We get Melo to stop trying to create off dribble by 3pt. line and he is still one of the toughest covers. This helps KP more than you know. But you will find out once Melo is gone. Which is about three, maybe more, years from now.

We should unleash Willy, Kuz, KP front court with a backcourt of Rose and the best guard we can get from the assets we trade Melo for. What do you think is the worst case there? We don't make the playoffs next year. So what? We never make the playoffs with Melo anyway unless he's playing with a HOF vet leader point guard like Jason Kidd or Billups. It just won't happen with Melo in NY. He is 33. He plays best at 4, which is KP's starting position. This isn't about making KP a 27 point a night scorer. This is about improving our chances longterm.

Deal Melo, get a starting guard who fits with a younger group of Rose, Kuz, Willy, KP as starters, and draft well in the lottery this year. We will have more capspace with Melo gone in the future. This team needs a massive leadership and culture change. Melo is holding this franchise back right now. Only a completely blind Melo fan (Not accusing you of such) does not see the importance of rebuilding right now.

Bonn1997 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

arkrud wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

arkrud wrote:Team need specialists and system adjustment to cover up for Melo and Rose deficiencies.
Good teams can handle this. Team in the beginning of rebuilding process of course cannot.

It's a salary cap problem. I've said this before, Melo carries too large a cap number to not play defense.

Perimeter defense costs money. Rim protection costs money. There is a finite amount of money a team can spend in any given season. Noah, Rose and Melo chew up a ton of cap space. To get better, you need help, to get help, you need assets and cap space/cap flexibility.

You might be able to hide a Noah alone ( long bad contract, injury prone)

You might be able to hide a Melo alone ( zero on defense by choice)

You might be able to hide Rose alone ( no 3 point skills, careless and lazy defender, off the court problems, injury history)

But you can't hide all three.

Dwight Howard left more money on the table to leave the Lakers to go to the Rockets. Why? They had the asset and cap flexibility and space to help the team win in the future.

It's not just a players weaknesses, it's what that player costs against the cap while imposing those weaknesses on the team. Because the only way to "solve" those weaknesses is with assets and cap. Things the Knicks have poorly managed over the years.

+1
Cannot be summarized better.

Too funny. So the original argument "that "WE" are better without Melo and Rose defensively" has now been abandoned, after realistic facts brought into light. And now your changing to another classic "Melohate" rhetoric....."He makes too much money" Here is what I keep saying about Melo hate, it all stems from unrealistic expectations. They expect one guy to come in here and win a chip by himself. Please name a max player on any team that has won a chip without a roster? Please name a max player who scores and is a defensive juggernaut in the league? Oh and....it has to be one that wanted to or actually came to such a dysfunctional organazation???. Problem is, you guys think this is NBA2K and you can put 5 LBJ's on the floor and beat up on people. Also, Funny how you mention Noah and Lee as being problems, since they were brought in to "PLAY DEFENSE" in the first place. They also take up 29M!? But Melo is the problem? And strange that defensive guys dont also score 20+ per, like yiu expect. Who do you have in mind that is a max player at the 4 that can score like Melo and play perimeter defense and rebound? Hmmmm. LBJ? Westbrook? Are they coming to this group of players? Triangle? Dolan? Grumpy old man GM?

There's no such thing as general "better or worse without player X." It depends on what the player is being replaced with. Would we be better off with five good role players instead of Melo/Rose at $45 mil per? By every objective metric I can find, I think we'd be way better off. Would we be better off waiving the players and having no replacement? Of course not. (Well, technically, the team is playing better with Melo off the court this year but I'm skeptical that would hold up in a larger sample of minutes.) Will we be better off if Phil and Dolan replace Melo and Rose with overpriced veterans on longer contracts (or give a big extension to Rose)? No, we'd be worse off.

Technically the team is better this year without Melo? You mean in the metric of what? As in "losses that feel good because I don't have to watch my economic nightmare max contract DOUCHE score 20 or 30 points?" If you break those losses down by portions of seconds, are we actually chip contenders?

Weak Bonn, very weak.

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

Vmart wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I think Kp should watch how jovic plays and add some of it to his game

For such a high iq player he has 0 passing game. He takes way too many stupid shots he needs to NOT have less than 7-8 rebounds at a minimum and he needs to be more of a force on d. So many facets of the game including style of play. I'm not worried he didn't get as many shots as rose he needs to do more of the other stuff. He took a 3 late in the game that was mind boggling bad

His inside game is so bad to. He has no kind of hookshot or under the basket play at all. All he'll do is start a drive to the basket and pull up for a jumper. KP is in no way ready to take over a team and once we're out of the playoff picture they should make him more of a focal point of the offense especially if the plan is to trade Melo.

This offseason the Knicks need to pay Kevin Mchale to sit down with him and talk to him about his game. then he needs about a month practicing with him. He does not play a good brand of basketball---he could be great but he has to relearn facets of the game.

He is getting a lot of Melo exposure. Which I think isn't good for him. The factor of inefficiency is rubbing off on him. I'll say it again there is no way a 7'3 player should be shooting below 50% no way yet KP is doing it. This is scary, this absolutely not a good sign.

There's a big difference when you have a big man like KP taking the majority of his shots from 15 to 26 feet from the basket and most other big men that take their shots with either lay ups or 5 to 10 feet from the basket.

That is an excuse.

And excuse for what? KP is a stretch 5, something the league has never seen before. If you want to make him out to be something he is not - a post/power player - then you can point to all the stats you want that focus on his lack of strength to operate down low. On the other hand, he is not Dwight Howard or D'Andre Jordan, and I would never lament the fact that those 2 guys SUCK at 3 point shots.

7'3 and now the 5 on the team. I have seen stretch PF shoot over 50%. He should be punishing small PFs down low. This is what is wrong with the Knicks. They don't know they have a player that can be efficient in scoring yet they have him hugging the three point line. I get it he can shoot the three at a good clip. But he averages about 3-4 a game if you watch the game he is way to far from the hoop on many occasions should be closer and those become high percentage shots.

I don't get it. We have a player that is more Dirk than Dwight Howard and you would like to only compare him to Dwight to show what he is lacking. Not a reasonable expectation.

KP has not filled his body out and indeed does struggle in the post. But why would you want to make him out to be something he is not?

KP is a young guy still figuring out his game. He is a better shooter and far better defender than Dirk was in his second year in the league.

And here is some more amazing stuff:

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/knicks-future-not-as-bleak-as-it-appears/

Porzingis has played a total of 108 games in his NBA career thus far. He has blocked 207 shots and knocked down 157 3-pointers. No only is he the first player in NBA history with more than 200 rejections and 150 treys this early in his career, but putting those stats in context helps to highlight their absurdity.

Porzingis has hit the same exact number of 3-pointers in his first 108 career games as Ray Allen did in Allen’s first 108 career contests. KP has more made treys than all-time great shooters such as James Harden, Michael Redd and Chauncey Billups to this point in their careers. In addition, he has blocked more shots in his first 108 games than Yao Ming (201) and Dwight Howard (175) did in their first 108 games.

Martin I'm not belittling KP's game I like what I see but there is a sure thing factor that his height gives him which I feel is not being exploited to its full capability. Believe it or not one day I would hope KP puts up 55% FG 40% three point FG and 90% FT. Young guy who works diligently at his craft I won't doubt that he may come close to this number. But The Knicks have to do better at making sure that aspect of 10 feet and in game is developed and used in the course of the game.

You mean 55% on 2 point FGs, right? The 3s will bring the overall FG% down enough that there's no way he would be at 55% overall. Otherwise, you're penalizing him for being a good 3 point shooter. He's at 48% on 2s right now, which is definitely below where he should be.

I think if they can get KP shooting more shots in the high percentage area. His two point FG can be anywhere from 58-60%. Now if KP can get more of those hotspot looks he will have a better chance at getting around 55% overall FG with of course improvements in three point shooting. So those numbers may look daunting but they are very do able. Because of his height. There have been players that have come close to those numbers already. Like LeBron and Durant and Curry. Now before I get ahead of myself not comparing KP to them.

Umm why can't he be both a post up player and a shooter? He has the tools to be both.

And I agree his height is not being exploited to its full capability.

The reason he shoots at a low percentage in that specific area is because when he is in that area he is dribbling and crossing over and taking HUUUGE steps back to create space between his opponent when he doesn't have to. When he is close to the basket he doesn't crossover on his dribble and has better control over the ball and his body and it results in a better controlled shot. I honestly think he can shoot from anywhere and he just needs to stop that damn crossover and just dribble normally. They need to force feed him Dirk footage everyday lol.