nyknickzingis wrote:We need to treat Willy same way we did KP last year. Once we knew KP was legit, we started him and gave him 25 minutes a night. Let him grow even with mistakes. Same thing we are doing now, only at 32 minutes a night and more shots.

Willy has gotten unfair treatment but it's also that so many players can play that 5 spot right now. We really need to makea trade to balance out roles. I'd move Jennings, O'Quinn and Lance Thomas for another 2 guard, a veteran guard with some experience but not a veteran like Jennings who still plays like a rookie. Someone a little more dependable. If we can do that, then we open up playing time for Willy, while still not completely trashing Noah's confidence.

There's little reason for us to play any other way than with Melo at the 4. KP should start at 5, and come back in as a 4 when Melo sits. Longterm this is part of the reason why I think a Melo trade makes so much sense for this team, as there aren't enough minutes at 5/4 for KP, Melo, Willy, Noah and others like O'Quinn or Plumlee. Even Kuz, is more effective at 4 than 3. We need a very athletic Jae Crowder type of 3. I don't think a Willy, KP, Melo front court is fast enough or athletic enough to play at a high level on both sides of the ball.

I think would think KOQ is very tradeable. I don't think you can move Noah.

I wonder if a package of KOQ + CLEE could bring back something good?

Just don't know who that is, or if Knicks (Phil) is even looking at that. I feel for O'Quinn though. If I had my way, I wouldn't even play Noah rest of the year unless for injury situations. I'd use Willy, Plumlee and O'Quinn in a 3 man rotation at 5. Noah can rest, work his shoulder strength, lose some weight, work on his shot. Come back at 100% later in the season or better next year. Because of Noah, O'Quinn and Willy have to sit out and not get any game rhythm. One plays the other usually gets the short end of the stick.

O'Quinn is great value. Only 25 years old. 4 years in the league. Makes 4.5$M a year. He is one of Phil's few good trades. A part of me wants to keep him. He's put in work to come in lighter and play his best ball of his career. Not the right message to trade a guy after that. We should be doing everything in our power to be keeping players like O'Quinn around.

CLee I would move. Lance as well. Jennings definitely.

Willy needs to start or be guaranteed 30 mins off the bench with Noah playing the decoy starter like they did in the 80s and 90s.

crzymdups wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Wrote this on 12/19 in a thread where I suggested he should play "starter's minutes." The next day he had a poor game against the Pacers, of all teams...kind of took the steam out of my position.

Not worth it for me to create another opinion...what I said then goes for now.

I'm not going to do the actual stats, but when he gets 20+MPG he puts up very decent numbers. Down the road you can easily see him putting up 16PPG/ 12RPG/ 3APG/ 1.5-2.0BPG

12/19/2016 12:05 PM LAST EDITED: 12/19/2016 12:07 PM

Not saying he should be "starting" at this point (though maybe he should), but the 28 minutes he got vs Denver should be the norm unless Noah starts to turn his game around. Doesn't really matter who is on the floor for the opening tip, I just want the better players getting the most time. If Willy has a problem in a particular game, adjust down and coach him about what he was not doing, but if Willy is playing well he should get the kind of minutes he got in Denver.

Noah seems to be better suited to the offense we ran last year...I think it would have made better use of his passing ability, and the fact that he has a limited J. I don't really see much of the Triangle this year, and I think Noah might suffer for it, as well as the fact that his athleticism has fallen off, for whatever the reason.

Willy is always moving on offense, and I think his midrange J will come around with more playing time. He is willing to bang down low, has a nice touch with either hand, and despite being a below the basket player, he picks up rebounds. He sometimes forces passes, but he does look for teammates and has made a few good dishes.

Normally you would say that Noah's D might separate him from Willy, but Noah is not the same defender he once was at this point in the season, and if you adjust for minutes played, he and Willy are similar RE shot blocking. Willy has a pretty good wingspan, and he's surprised me at times with his ability to challenge, alter, and block shots. His footwork on D is better than I expected, and as he learns about opponent tendencies I think he will be able to compensate for any deficiencies he shows right now. He will never be Noah in his prime, but I now feel he has enough ability to hold his own at the 5 position.

Most significant thing is that the guy does not seem overwhelmed- I really believe playing that extra year on a very good Spanish team, and his work with their National team made a big difference... the guy just looks like he belongs in this league.

There are always issues when a coach makes this kind of move, especially when it concerns a player like Noah, but it would be foolish to keep a better player on the bench.

So far Hornacek has done a good job of easing Willy into a more prominent role, but at some point soon he and Phil have to come to an agreement on playing time for Willy, Noah, and KOQ, and right now, Willy and KOQ seem to be trending. I would make Noah earn more playing time...and if he doesn't play well, his minutes should be cut.

Just a thought.

I remember that game against the Pacers - Al Jeff took it to him in the post something like SIX plays in a row. Honestly that was bad... but also bad coaching there, too. Make an adjustment! Send some help! But also I think Willy looks more comfortable and better positioned on defense since then.

I remember that too. Willy made his adjustment last night. He fronted Al and was able to take away his post ups.

newyorker4ever wrote:http://email.fansided.com/c/eJx1T8tuhDAM_JpwCyLv7IHDdhE_0A9YuUlYIkiygiBEv75Je65k2dbMaMa2PXCpFWt8TzuiOkI54URT1hLCuRYtl4zIVj24egzijng3Qdy9dbY1KTRzL61VelI3AYYoMQG7TSC0NeCU1lzoZu3nnN-I3REdS1nw67VEb5a9OhSk5pbRkbrz0qI78ZW2Bf_J8OnX9cKz2yLEVwruG-djiwUAu1dTNh45PA2EN_hXRGwYIX7WExH9GGocorIq9nRsxv3PB2f9EQrvQkGbrXfWeteerih5d8Gc0u_Tuf-CbOant5hIJX4AIvdldQ

Nice article - gonna highlight some quotes from it -

Rookie center Willy Hernangomez has been one of the few bright spots for the New York Knicks in 2016-17. He’s showing no signs of slowing down.

Thursday, June 25, 2015 may live on as the day the tide turned for the New York Knicks. Team president Phil Jackson made two decisions at the 2015 NBA Draft that weren’t warmly received, but could define the resurgence of a once glorious organization.

After No. 4 overall selection Kristaps Porzingis emerged as a rising star in 2015-16, No. 35 overall selection Willy Hernangomez is taking his turn in 2016-17.

Hernangomez and Porzingis were teammates in Spain’s Liga ACB with Baloncesto Sevilla. Though both players deserved to be drafted into the NBA, there was a misconception that Jackson only took Hernangomez to appease Porzingis.

According to Marc Berman of The New York Post, starting point guard Derrick Rose offered high praise for the 22-year-old Hernangomez following yet another stellar performance.

“I love when he is out there,’’ Rose said. “He’s been playing professional ball since he was 17. He listens, has no ego and great character.”

Any time an established player states that they, “Love when he is out there,” the teammate being discussed is special in some way or another.

Hernangomez is currently averaging 5.7 points, 4.9 rebounds, 1.4 offensive boards, 0.8 assist, and 0.5 block in 13.7 minutes per game. Those numbers translate to 15.1 points, 12.9 rebounds, 3.8 offensive rebounds, 2.1 assists, and 1.3 blocks per 36 minutes.

Hernangomez is also shooting 55.2 percent from the field and 73.3 percent from the free throw line, and has made three 3-point field goals in 2016-17.

Impressive as that all may be, Hernangomez has elevated his game to an entirely new level during his past four performances.

Hernangomez tallied eight points and 13 rebounds in 21 minutes against the Toronto Raptors—a sign of things to come. He posted 17 points and 11 rebounds in 20 minutes against the Boston Celtics, and tallied six points and eight rebounds in 14 minutes against the Phoenix Suns.

Most recently, Hernangomez tallied 14 points, 10 rebounds, two assists, two blocks, and one steal in 24 minutes against the Indiana Pacers.

Beyond the numbers, Hernangomez plays with an infectious energy and an intriguing confidence in the post. He moves well without the ball, has soft hands on the dive, and finishes well around the rim, which has made him a pick and roll partner to Brandon Jennings.

Hernangomez has also turned heads with the way he’s gone to the post and played with a level of confidence and polish that’s well beyond his years.

Though he still has work to do, Hernangomez is firmly establishing himself as a valuable contributor. His rebounding is a constant strength when he’s on the court and his chemistry with Jennings is enticing unto itself.

Regardless of whom he takes the court with, Hernangomez always seems to make a positive impact on the game.

The Knicks currently have net ratings of +3.8 when Hernangomez is on the floor and -4.9 without him—a difference of 8.7 points per 100 possessions. Most impressively, New York has defensive ratings of 100.5 with Hernangomez on the court and 110.5 without him.

Though his playing time has been sporadic and limited, the Knicks are allowing 10.0 more points per 100 possessions when Hernangomez is off the court than when he is.

crzymdups wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:http://email.fansided.com/c/eJx1T8tuhDAM_JpwCyLv7IHDdhE_0A9YuUlYIkiygiBEv75Je65k2dbMaMa2PXCpFWt8TzuiOkI54URT1hLCuRYtl4zIVj24egzijng3Qdy9dbY1KTRzL61VelI3AYYoMQG7TSC0NeCU1lzoZu3nnN-I3REdS1nw67VEb5a9OhSk5pbRkbrz0qI78ZW2Bf_J8OnX9cKz2yLEVwruG-djiwUAu1dTNh45PA2EN_hXRGwYIX7WExH9GGocorIq9nRsxv3PB2f9EQrvQkGbrXfWeteerih5d8Gc0u_Tuf-CbOant5hIJX4AIvdldQ

Nice article - gonna highlight some quotes from it -

Rookie center Willy Hernangomez has been one of the few bright spots for the New York Knicks in 2016-17. He’s showing no signs of slowing down.

Thursday, June 25, 2015 may live on as the day the tide turned for the New York Knicks. Team president Phil Jackson made two decisions at the 2015 NBA Draft that weren’t warmly received, but could define the resurgence of a once glorious organization.

After No. 4 overall selection Kristaps Porzingis emerged as a rising star in 2015-16, No. 35 overall selection Willy Hernangomez is taking his turn in 2016-17.

Hernangomez and Porzingis were teammates in Spain’s Liga ACB with Baloncesto Sevilla. Though both players deserved to be drafted into the NBA, there was a misconception that Jackson only took Hernangomez to appease Porzingis.

According to Marc Berman of The New York Post, starting point guard Derrick Rose offered high praise for the 22-year-old Hernangomez following yet another stellar performance.

“I love when he is out there,’’ Rose said. “He’s been playing professional ball since he was 17. He listens, has no ego and great character.”

Any time an established player states that they, “Love when he is out there,” the teammate being discussed is special in some way or another.

Hernangomez is currently averaging 5.7 points, 4.9 rebounds, 1.4 offensive boards, 0.8 assist, and 0.5 block in 13.7 minutes per game. Those numbers translate to 15.1 points, 12.9 rebounds, 3.8 offensive rebounds, 2.1 assists, and 1.3 blocks per 36 minutes.

Hernangomez is also shooting 55.2 percent from the field and 73.3 percent from the free throw line, and has made three 3-point field goals in 2016-17.

Impressive as that all may be, Hernangomez has elevated his game to an entirely new level during his past four performances.

Hernangomez tallied eight points and 13 rebounds in 21 minutes against the Toronto Raptors—a sign of things to come. He posted 17 points and 11 rebounds in 20 minutes against the Boston Celtics, and tallied six points and eight rebounds in 14 minutes against the Phoenix Suns.

Most recently, Hernangomez tallied 14 points, 10 rebounds, two assists, two blocks, and one steal in 24 minutes against the Indiana Pacers.

Beyond the numbers, Hernangomez plays with an infectious energy and an intriguing confidence in the post. He moves well without the ball, has soft hands on the dive, and finishes well around the rim, which has made him a pick and roll partner to Brandon Jennings.

Hernangomez has also turned heads with the way he’s gone to the post and played with a level of confidence and polish that’s well beyond his years.

Though he still has work to do, Hernangomez is firmly establishing himself as a valuable contributor. His rebounding is a constant strength when he’s on the court and his chemistry with Jennings is enticing unto itself.

Regardless of whom he takes the court with, Hernangomez always seems to make a positive impact on the game.

The Knicks currently have net ratings of +3.8 when Hernangomez is on the floor and -4.9 without him—a difference of 8.7 points per 100 possessions. Most impressively, New York has defensive ratings of 100.5 with Hernangomez on the court and 110.5 without him.

Though his playing time has been sporadic and limited, the Knicks are allowing 10.0 more points per 100 possessions when Hernangomez is off the court than when he is.

The kid is the real deal. I still think he'll have his bad moments and he'll be inconsistent with his numbers but this kid could be huge for us next year and definitely two years from now. I definitely see M.Gasol in him, at first i think the Gasol comparison was because they kinda look alike and played for the Spanish team together and his play but now you can clearly see M.Gasol in this kid.

CrushAlot wrote:How about Willy saying he gets some of his moves from playing video games.

He's a funny kid 😂 Gotta be excited by Willy and KP tandem going forward.

crzymdups wrote:

Nalod wrote:I tend to look at him not being denied time, but he is developing. To put him out there more might have not been a good thing.
When we have "SEEN" what he can do, we tend to extrapolate that. What is not seen is perhaps what he was not able to do because we did not put him in situations to fail.
Thus, he is developing and I do think he warrants consistent minutes, which he is earning and proving.
So lets applaud the coaching staff for handling this kid well. Lets applaud the team for not rushing a kid.

Honestly, it's not even about extrapolating stats with him. It's totally about feeling more comfortable about the game when he is out there. I was surprised the stats were as good as they were, though not surprised they were better with him out there.

Listen - we threw KP in the fire and I think we can mostly agree it helped him to get that experience. Why is Willy different? Is there any reason to wear kids gloves with him?

I think bringing him along slowly is okay in some senses, but recently he was the reason we won in Boston. And then he did not play the next game. Did not play. In a game we lost by 3pts. Why didn't he play? Who knows. He needs to be playing 20-24 minutes a night. Hornacek needs to stop trying to predict matchups. Make other teams try to stop him down low. The Wizards went small on us and killed us from outside - make the Wizards team try to stop Willy inside. Don't pre-emptively decide not to play him. He's earned 24min MINIMUM every single game. He's our best 5-man by almost any statistical measure.

Hornacek does this with Justin Holiday, too - yanking around minutes based on matchups. It's overly protective and reacting to the other team rather than have the other team react to us. If Willy Hernangomez comes in the game, the other team will have to make a defensive adjustment to respond. He's already that good. Holiday and Hernangomez are two of our best two-way players period. They both need to be getting 24 minutes a game no matter what.

This is why Jeff has to a great degree been part of his own problem. He's been hesitant to move to playing the younger guys more minutes and more consistently. Jeff seems to be scared to make the move to more minutes for the younger bench guys. Perhaps not wanting to offend the vets or maybe Phil. Whatever the reason he should go with his gut which I'm sure is telling him the kids are better for this team right now.

So what is Rose doing to emulate that? For a dude that deserts the team without notice, trying to sound magnanimous is a bit of a stretch.

newyorker4ever wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Nalod wrote:I tend to look at him not being denied time, but he is developing. To put him out there more might have not been a good thing.
When we have "SEEN" what he can do, we tend to extrapolate that. What is not seen is perhaps what he was not able to do because we did not put him in situations to fail.
Thus, he is developing and I do think he warrants consistent minutes, which he is earning and proving.
So lets applaud the coaching staff for handling this kid well. Lets applaud the team for not rushing a kid.

Honestly, it's not even about extrapolating stats with him. It's totally about feeling more comfortable about the game when he is out there. I was surprised the stats were as good as they were, though not surprised they were better with him out there.

Listen - we threw KP in the fire and I think we can mostly agree it helped him to get that experience. Why is Willy different? Is there any reason to wear kids gloves with him?

I think bringing him along slowly is okay in some senses, but recently he was the reason we won in Boston. And then he did not play the next game. Did not play. In a game we lost by 3pts. Why didn't he play? Who knows. He needs to be playing 20-24 minutes a night. Hornacek needs to stop trying to predict matchups. Make other teams try to stop him down low. The Wizards went small on us and killed us from outside - make the Wizards team try to stop Willy inside. Don't pre-emptively decide not to play him. He's earned 24min MINIMUM every single game. He's our best 5-man by almost any statistical measure.

Hornacek does this with Justin Holiday, too - yanking around minutes based on matchups. It's overly protective and reacting to the other team rather than have the other team react to us. If Willy Hernangomez comes in the game, the other team will have to make a defensive adjustment to respond. He's already that good. Holiday and Hernangomez are two of our best two-way players period. They both need to be getting 24 minutes a game no matter what.

This is why Jeff has to a great degree been part of his own problem. He's been hesitant to move to playing the younger guys more minutes and more consistently. Jeff seems to be scared to make the move to more minutes for the younger bench guys. Perhaps not wanting to offend the vets or maybe Phil. Whatever the reason he should go with his gut which I'm sure is telling him the kids are better for this team right now.

You're so off on this. How could you have already forgotten all the times he's played young players over our vets or when our vets are playing bad he'd put the young guys in and keep them in much longer than you would usually keep the 2nd unit in or when he just benched C.Lee and J.Noah for younger guys? JH isn't scared to offend any of these guys and has constantly called them out after games.

JH knows more about the game than any of us will ever know, he was one of the smartest players in the game during his playing days so i think for any fan to question how he plays guys or what rotations he uses is pretty ridiculous really. We don't know why he does what he does but i guarantee he has reasons for doing what he's doing. I know that you guys are now gonna say that what he's doing isn't working but this losing is so much on the players it's ridiculous. How many times has he said that they need to talk on the floor or they need to move the ball around more and whatever else he says and then we all watch the games and they hardly ever talk and always stop moving the ball so what else can the guy do really.

I'm not trying to call you guys out but it's just annoying to me when a fan wants to act like they know who should be playing and who shouldn't and who should be doing this or whatever over a head coach that's been in and around the game of basketball their entire lives. These guys are very smart and know what they're doing but when you have a team that doesn't work well with each other and don't wanna play the way they're being asked to play that's gotta be tough on the coach. I know this post is replying to you Nix but it's not an attack on you it's just where i ended up posting is all.

The nature of sports talk radio, print articles and fan forums is to talk about every aspect of the game including coaching. I am very supportive of Jeff but he has not been perfect no matter what the reasons. We can see the players mistakes and call them out and do the same for the coach.

newyorker4ever wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Nalod wrote:I tend to look at him not being denied time, but he is developing. To put him out there more might have not been a good thing.
When we have "SEEN" what he can do, we tend to extrapolate that. What is not seen is perhaps what he was not able to do because we did not put him in situations to fail.
Thus, he is developing and I do think he warrants consistent minutes, which he is earning and proving.
So lets applaud the coaching staff for handling this kid well. Lets applaud the team for not rushing a kid.

Honestly, it's not even about extrapolating stats with him. It's totally about feeling more comfortable about the game when he is out there. I was surprised the stats were as good as they were, though not surprised they were better with him out there.

Listen - we threw KP in the fire and I think we can mostly agree it helped him to get that experience. Why is Willy different? Is there any reason to wear kids gloves with him?

I think bringing him along slowly is okay in some senses, but recently he was the reason we won in Boston. And then he did not play the next game. Did not play. In a game we lost by 3pts. Why didn't he play? Who knows. He needs to be playing 20-24 minutes a night. Hornacek needs to stop trying to predict matchups. Make other teams try to stop him down low. The Wizards went small on us and killed us from outside - make the Wizards team try to stop Willy inside. Don't pre-emptively decide not to play him. He's earned 24min MINIMUM every single game. He's our best 5-man by almost any statistical measure.

Hornacek does this with Justin Holiday, too - yanking around minutes based on matchups. It's overly protective and reacting to the other team rather than have the other team react to us. If Willy Hernangomez comes in the game, the other team will have to make a defensive adjustment to respond. He's already that good. Holiday and Hernangomez are two of our best two-way players period. They both need to be getting 24 minutes a game no matter what.

This is why Jeff has to a great degree been part of his own problem. He's been hesitant to move to playing the younger guys more minutes and more consistently. Jeff seems to be scared to make the move to more minutes for the younger bench guys. Perhaps not wanting to offend the vets or maybe Phil. Whatever the reason he should go with his gut which I'm sure is telling him the kids are better for this team right now.

You're so off on this. How could you have already forgotten all the times he's played young players over our vets or when our vets are playing bad he'd put the young guys in and keep them in much longer than you would usually keep the 2nd unit in or when he just benched C.Lee and J.Noah for younger guys? JH isn't scared to offend any of these guys and has constantly called them out after games.

JH knows more about the game than any of us will ever know, he was one of the smartest players in the game during his playing days so i think for any fan to question how he plays guys or what rotations he uses is pretty ridiculous really. We don't know why he does what he does but i guarantee he has reasons for doing what he's doing. I know that you guys are now gonna say that what he's doing isn't working but this losing is so much on the players it's ridiculous. How many times has he said that they need to talk on the floor or they need to move the ball around more and whatever else he says and then we all watch the games and they hardly ever talk and always stop moving the ball so what else can the guy do really.

I'm not trying to call you guys out but it's just annoying to me when a fan wants to act like they know who should be playing and who shouldn't and who should be doing this or whatever over a head coach that's been in and around the game of basketball their entire lives. These guys are very smart and know what they're doing but when you have a team that doesn't work well with each other and don't wanna play the way they're being asked to play that's gotta be tough on the coach. I know this post is replying to you Nix but it's not an attack on you it's just where i ended up posting is all.

I still think there are "political" reasons involved when older and more expensive vets like Noah remain in even when they are underperforming. I still believe that Noah will improve...just not sure it will be during this season, though, and if Phil is serious about the playoffs, Willy might have to get more and consistent playing time.