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earthmansurfer
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12/1/2016  3:48 PM
djsunyc wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:Can you see no joy in anything, seriously? He just saved 1000 jobs and you and other Hillary supporters have nothing positive to say.
Trump is doing Obama's job right now. No excuse for how poorly Obama has done.

Trump is creating a different tax system to help everyone, from the poor to the rich (lower taxes for all). Yeah, Trump took advantage of loopholes in the system as all businesses do. But there are ways to help to keep jobs in America too.

I hope companies would have some pride to come back to America, instead of just buying back stock and crap like that. If not, then they are digging our grave. But I'm sure a little pressure in the right places will work.

ems - i understand you are supporting trump and believe in his plans. can you post links on how trump's trickle down plan will help the economy? can you also post links on how trumps tax cuts will help the economy? from many accounts of independent financial experts, his plans will not help. i would like to read some articles on where it will - i'm genuinely curious to read the other side of it.

as for the carrier jobs - yes, to those 1000 employees, trump did his job. but the other people of indiana are now helping to pay for those jobs to stay - without their consent. i'm glad those 1000 people can keep working - but the full financial ramifications are yet to be determined until a few years from now. i can't deny the optics of it but when it comes to politicians, we need to look closer.

Trump doesn't have a trickle down plan. We all know trickle down economics doesn't work.
Everyone, from poor to rich gets a tax break. More money, more spending. I have no links to give, you can search, but trying to find anything remotely positive on MSM is going to be hard, might have to go to alt media. What we all know now, is what we are doing doesn't work. Sending jobs overseas and making companies richer is not going to work. We need something drastically different and we need to take a big chance cause this economy is on its last gasp.

I will search for some information but it is all theoretical, right? I mean, what works? Were there studies that Reagonomics would work? As long as we keep spending more money than we take in, having wars and killing all around the world, sending jobs overseas, taxing people to the point that they can't survive, etc. we are not going to succeed as a peoples.

Re Carrier jobs, would you rather pay unemployment for 1,000 people for 2 years or whatever it may be? Do the math. The tax money those workers pay in a few months alone will pay for itself. $700 per person per year to keep 1000 jobs in the country. That is a no brainer and you do that every day of the week, as the alternative is suicide.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
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arkrud
Posts: 30205
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12/1/2016  3:52 PM
holfresh wrote:
arkrud wrote:
holfresh wrote:
arkrud wrote:
holfresh wrote:
arkrud wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:The US is only a true democracy in terms of freedom of speech, religion and freedom of assembly, etc. In terms of the vote and how laws are passed, it's not a democracy..It's not a true representation of all the people...The Senate and House will soon vote to repeal the Healthcare law when Trump takes office... Together, states like Wyoming, North Dakota and West Virginia have 6 Senators representing 2.7 million people voting on a law affecting citizens of New York and California represented by 4 Senators, who together have a population of 60 million people..How is this fair??..Why should such a small segment of people have such a significantly weighted impact on an important life changing bill that effect all Americans??..How can this be allowed in this country???..We go around the world telling people how to fairly run their country but democracy exist in name only in this country...

Thinks about it, Wyoming, North Dakota and West Virginia is about the same population of Brooklyn NY and have 6 Senators...So 2.7 million people potentially have 50% more legislative impact in the Senate, than 60 million people...So .008% of our population have 50% more legislative impact than 19% of our population...How can we allow this??..Regardless of party politics, you have to recognized this is complete BS...

Exactly. And like I was saying in the other thread before it got closed, hating Californians and New Yorkers seems to be the new "in" prejudice among Republicans. They say things like, "If you don't count California, Trump won the popular vote" as if it's OK to just exclude a whole group of Americans.

It's insane... Like it's ok to exclude these states because they aren't the "real America"..

Or exclude all other states but California and NY?
What is the difference except of your personal like or dislike?
The voting system created to reflect the Federal nature of the country.
If you want to change it then states will have a right to decide again if they want to be the members of federation or not.


What noise are you talking man..Please explain more clearly...Federal nature nonsense..

States would have the right to leave..You think Wyoming can support two Senators and House members on it's own..That's my tax money from NY going to them...

Why not. It is small but bigger that many countries in the world.
Seriously you are not looking at 55 new countries like it was with USSR broke in 15 or Yugoslavia.
Many states together can break out of USA and create Confederation of 30 or 40 states who favor federal system to monolithic country with proportional voting system.
Obviously absolute majority of US population will be against any separation so this majority will never support any changes in voting system.

Oh stop..How about NY and California breaking off and creating their own Federation...Communism and low standard of living will want to make people leave too...

Why not... Same story only reverse. And most of the population in NY and California will not support it too.

So, we shouldn't try to get our voices heard by our representatives for fear of the stability of the Republic??..Then it's time to shake up the Republic, don't you think??

If majority of the population will start supporting this notion you are absolutely right.
This not my worry. Most likely this shake up will stir Republic into Empire.
Every time democratic societies tried to shift to the left they end up in Dictatorship.
Do you really think this is multiple coincidences when it happened every time?

He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
holfresh
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12/1/2016  3:57 PM
earthmansurfer wrote:
djsunyc wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:Can you see no joy in anything, seriously? He just saved 1000 jobs and you and other Hillary supporters have nothing positive to say.
Trump is doing Obama's job right now. No excuse for how poorly Obama has done.

Trump is creating a different tax system to help everyone, from the poor to the rich (lower taxes for all). Yeah, Trump took advantage of loopholes in the system as all businesses do. But there are ways to help to keep jobs in America too.

I hope companies would have some pride to come back to America, instead of just buying back stock and crap like that. If not, then they are digging our grave. But I'm sure a little pressure in the right places will work.

ems - i understand you are supporting trump and believe in his plans. can you post links on how trump's trickle down plan will help the economy? can you also post links on how trumps tax cuts will help the economy? from many accounts of independent financial experts, his plans will not help. i would like to read some articles on where it will - i'm genuinely curious to read the other side of it.

as for the carrier jobs - yes, to those 1000 employees, trump did his job. but the other people of indiana are now helping to pay for those jobs to stay - without their consent. i'm glad those 1000 people can keep working - but the full financial ramifications are yet to be determined until a few years from now. i can't deny the optics of it but when it comes to politicians, we need to look closer.

Trump doesn't have a trickle down plan. We all know trickle down economics doesn't work.
Everyone, from poor to rich gets a tax break. More money, more spending. I have no links to give, you can search, but trying to find anything remotely positive on MSM is going to be hard, might have to go to alt media. What we all know now, is what we are doing doesn't work. Sending jobs overseas and making companies richer is not going to work. We need something drastically different and we need to take a big chance cause this economy is on its last gasp.

I will search for some information but it is all theoretical, right? I mean, what works? Were there studies that Reagonomics would work? As long as we keep spending more money than we take in, having wars and killing all around the world, sending jobs overseas, taxing people to the point that they can't survive, etc. we are not going to succeed as a peoples.

Re Carrier jobs, would you rather pay unemployment for 1,000 people for 2 years or whatever it may be? Do the math. The tax money those workers pay in a few months alone will pay for itself. $700 per person per year to keep 1000 jobs in the country. That is a no brainer and you do that every day of the week, as the alternative is suicide.

What are you talking, they are cutting Corporate taxes to 15%, also tax holiday to bring money from overseas...

arkrud
Posts: 30205
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12/1/2016  3:59 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/1/2016  3:59 PM
earthmansurfer wrote:
djsunyc wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:Can you see no joy in anything, seriously? He just saved 1000 jobs and you and other Hillary supporters have nothing positive to say.
Trump is doing Obama's job right now. No excuse for how poorly Obama has done.

Trump is creating a different tax system to help everyone, from the poor to the rich (lower taxes for all). Yeah, Trump took advantage of loopholes in the system as all businesses do. But there are ways to help to keep jobs in America too.

I hope companies would have some pride to come back to America, instead of just buying back stock and crap like that. If not, then they are digging our grave. But I'm sure a little pressure in the right places will work.

ems - i understand you are supporting trump and believe in his plans. can you post links on how trump's trickle down plan will help the economy? can you also post links on how trumps tax cuts will help the economy? from many accounts of independent financial experts, his plans will not help. i would like to read some articles on where it will - i'm genuinely curious to read the other side of it.

as for the carrier jobs - yes, to those 1000 employees, trump did his job. but the other people of indiana are now helping to pay for those jobs to stay - without their consent. i'm glad those 1000 people can keep working - but the full financial ramifications are yet to be determined until a few years from now. i can't deny the optics of it but when it comes to politicians, we need to look closer.

Trump doesn't have a trickle down plan. We all know trickle down economics doesn't work.
Everyone, from poor to rich gets a tax break. More money, more spending. I have no links to give, you can search, but trying to find anything remotely positive on MSM is going to be hard, might have to go to alt media. What we all know now, is what we are doing doesn't work. Sending jobs overseas and making companies richer is not going to work. We need something drastically different and we need to take a big chance cause this economy is on its last gasp.

I will search for some information but it is all theoretical, right? I mean, what works? Were there studies that Reagonomics would work? As long as we keep spending more money than we take in, having wars and killing all around the world, sending jobs overseas, taxing people to the point that they can't survive, etc. we are not going to succeed as a peoples.

Re Carrier jobs, would you rather pay unemployment for 1,000 people for 2 years or whatever it may be? Do the math. The tax money those workers pay in a few months alone will pay for itself. $700 per person per year to keep 1000 jobs in the country. That is a no brainer and you do that every day of the week, as the alternative is suicide.

Just saying:

He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
holfresh
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12/1/2016  4:00 PM


On Steve Mnuchin:

holfresh
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12/1/2016  4:03 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/1/2016  4:04 PM
Howard Schultz step down from Starbucks and CEO...Watch him run for President in 2020...
earthmansurfer
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12/1/2016  4:03 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/1/2016  4:05 PM
holfresh wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:
djsunyc wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:Can you see no joy in anything, seriously? He just saved 1000 jobs and you and other Hillary supporters have nothing positive to say.
Trump is doing Obama's job right now. No excuse for how poorly Obama has done.

Trump is creating a different tax system to help everyone, from the poor to the rich (lower taxes for all). Yeah, Trump took advantage of loopholes in the system as all businesses do. But there are ways to help to keep jobs in America too.

I hope companies would have some pride to come back to America, instead of just buying back stock and crap like that. If not, then they are digging our grave. But I'm sure a little pressure in the right places will work.

ems - i understand you are supporting trump and believe in his plans. can you post links on how trump's trickle down plan will help the economy? can you also post links on how trumps tax cuts will help the economy? from many accounts of independent financial experts, his plans will not help. i would like to read some articles on where it will - i'm genuinely curious to read the other side of it.

as for the carrier jobs - yes, to those 1000 employees, trump did his job. but the other people of indiana are now helping to pay for those jobs to stay - without their consent. i'm glad those 1000 people can keep working - but the full financial ramifications are yet to be determined until a few years from now. i can't deny the optics of it but when it comes to politicians, we need to look closer.

Trump doesn't have a trickle down plan. We all know trickle down economics doesn't work.
Everyone, from poor to rich gets a tax break. More money, more spending. I have no links to give, you can search, but trying to find anything remotely positive on MSM is going to be hard, might have to go to alt media. What we all know now, is what we are doing doesn't work. Sending jobs overseas and making companies richer is not going to work. We need something drastically different and we need to take a big chance cause this economy is on its last gasp.

I will search for some information but it is all theoretical, right? I mean, what works? Were there studies that Reagonomics would work? As long as we keep spending more money than we take in, having wars and killing all around the world, sending jobs overseas, taxing people to the point that they can't survive, etc. we are not going to succeed as a peoples.

Re Carrier jobs, would you rather pay unemployment for 1,000 people for 2 years or whatever it may be? Do the math. The tax money those workers pay in a few months alone will pay for itself. $700 per person per year to keep 1000 jobs in the country. That is a no brainer and you do that every day of the week, as the alternative is suicide.

What are you talking, they are cutting Corporate taxes to 15%, also tax holiday to bring money from overseas...

Can you be more clear? I have posted his numbers before. I am aware the tax cuts are across the board.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
arkrud
Posts: 30205
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12/1/2016  4:09 PM
US is a pump which sucking the wealth from all over the world.
Not only currency, gold, arts, antiques, and bonds but also brains, technologies, patents, skilled workers... etc.
It comes in together will most active and successful people breaking in by any means.
Why so? Because they want security, opportunity, and freedom.
And they get infinitely more of it comparing to places they are coming from.
US is not only center of wealth concentration but it is the major one.
It takes time but most of the world is descending into wastelands and tribal enclaves with people fighting to survival at any cost.
Civilization path is not always linear... sometimes it takes a detour.
He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
holfresh
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12/1/2016  4:10 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/1/2016  4:20 PM
earthmansurfer wrote:
holfresh wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:
djsunyc wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:Can you see no joy in anything, seriously? He just saved 1000 jobs and you and other Hillary supporters have nothing positive to say.
Trump is doing Obama's job right now. No excuse for how poorly Obama has done.

Trump is creating a different tax system to help everyone, from the poor to the rich (lower taxes for all). Yeah, Trump took advantage of loopholes in the system as all businesses do. But there are ways to help to keep jobs in America too.

I hope companies would have some pride to come back to America, instead of just buying back stock and crap like that. If not, then they are digging our grave. But I'm sure a little pressure in the right places will work.

ems - i understand you are supporting trump and believe in his plans. can you post links on how trump's trickle down plan will help the economy? can you also post links on how trumps tax cuts will help the economy? from many accounts of independent financial experts, his plans will not help. i would like to read some articles on where it will - i'm genuinely curious to read the other side of it.

as for the carrier jobs - yes, to those 1000 employees, trump did his job. but the other people of indiana are now helping to pay for those jobs to stay - without their consent. i'm glad those 1000 people can keep working - but the full financial ramifications are yet to be determined until a few years from now. i can't deny the optics of it but when it comes to politicians, we need to look closer.

Trump doesn't have a trickle down plan. We all know trickle down economics doesn't work.
Everyone, from poor to rich gets a tax break. More money, more spending. I have no links to give, you can search, but trying to find anything remotely positive on MSM is going to be hard, might have to go to alt media. What we all know now, is what we are doing doesn't work. Sending jobs overseas and making companies richer is not going to work. We need something drastically different and we need to take a big chance cause this economy is on its last gasp.

I will search for some information but it is all theoretical, right? I mean, what works? Were there studies that Reagonomics would work? As long as we keep spending more money than we take in, having wars and killing all around the world, sending jobs overseas, taxing people to the point that they can't survive, etc. we are not going to succeed as a peoples.

Re Carrier jobs, would you rather pay unemployment for 1,000 people for 2 years or whatever it may be? Do the math. The tax money those workers pay in a few months alone will pay for itself. $700 per person per year to keep 1000 jobs in the country. That is a no brainer and you do that every day of the week, as the alternative is suicide.

What are you talking, they are cutting Corporate taxes to 15%, also tax holiday to bring money from overseas...

Can you be more clear? I have posted his numbers before. I am aware the tax cuts are across the board.



I know it's MSM but here goes the dude from Goldman:



They also don't think the massive deficits that follows isn't because of their tax cuts...Or they are just BS artist just getting ready to bend the country over...

Also big tax cut for the rich and middle income..But the cover is that they say they will limit mortgage interest deductions so that will offset the big tax cut for the rich, yeah right....And if they aren't writing off mortgage interest???
earthmansurfer
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12/1/2016  4:19 PM
holfresh wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:
holfresh wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:
djsunyc wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:Can you see no joy in anything, seriously? He just saved 1000 jobs and you and other Hillary supporters have nothing positive to say.
Trump is doing Obama's job right now. No excuse for how poorly Obama has done.

Trump is creating a different tax system to help everyone, from the poor to the rich (lower taxes for all). Yeah, Trump took advantage of loopholes in the system as all businesses do. But there are ways to help to keep jobs in America too.

I hope companies would have some pride to come back to America, instead of just buying back stock and crap like that. If not, then they are digging our grave. But I'm sure a little pressure in the right places will work.

ems - i understand you are supporting trump and believe in his plans. can you post links on how trump's trickle down plan will help the economy? can you also post links on how trumps tax cuts will help the economy? from many accounts of independent financial experts, his plans will not help. i would like to read some articles on where it will - i'm genuinely curious to read the other side of it.

as for the carrier jobs - yes, to those 1000 employees, trump did his job. but the other people of indiana are now helping to pay for those jobs to stay - without their consent. i'm glad those 1000 people can keep working - but the full financial ramifications are yet to be determined until a few years from now. i can't deny the optics of it but when it comes to politicians, we need to look closer.

Trump doesn't have a trickle down plan. We all know trickle down economics doesn't work.
Everyone, from poor to rich gets a tax break. More money, more spending. I have no links to give, you can search, but trying to find anything remotely positive on MSM is going to be hard, might have to go to alt media. What we all know now, is what we are doing doesn't work. Sending jobs overseas and making companies richer is not going to work. We need something drastically different and we need to take a big chance cause this economy is on its last gasp.

I will search for some information but it is all theoretical, right? I mean, what works? Were there studies that Reagonomics would work? As long as we keep spending more money than we take in, having wars and killing all around the world, sending jobs overseas, taxing people to the point that they can't survive, etc. we are not going to succeed as a peoples.

Re Carrier jobs, would you rather pay unemployment for 1,000 people for 2 years or whatever it may be? Do the math. The tax money those workers pay in a few months alone will pay for itself. $700 per person per year to keep 1000 jobs in the country. That is a no brainer and you do that every day of the week, as the alternative is suicide.

What are you talking, they are cutting Corporate taxes to 15%, also tax holiday to bring money from overseas...

Can you be more clear? I have posted his numbers before. I am aware the tax cuts are across the board.



I know it's MSM but here goes the dude from Goldman:

Thanks, was interesting. I don't know much about tax cuts. I was under the assumption that trickle down was more just in that direction (rich to poor) but that Trumps tax cuts are across the board. So, the economy is not (just) stimulated by companies having more to spend and bringing jobs home but also cause people at the bottom, in the middle, etc. also have more to spend.

I found this article, was written by a person who helped Trump, Kudlow, Clovis, etc. with the plan.

Trump's Plan Isn't Trickle-Down Economics

http://www.newsmax.com/Finance/StephenMoore/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-trickle-down-economics/2016/10/04/id/751523/

Hillary Clinton keeps bashing the Trump tax plan as "trumped-up trickle-down economics." This class-warfare card has become the standard and tired response to every Republican tax reform plan for 30 years.

No wonder we haven't cleaned out the stables of the tax code since the Reagan era. Democrats have no interest in doing so.

Clinton's claim is that the plan will blow a hole in the debt (which is rich coming from someone who worked for an administration that nearly doubled the debt in eight years) and that the benefits all go to the rich. She also says it will cost jobs and could even cause a recession.

I worked on devising the Trump tax plan with economists Larry Kudlow, Sam Clovis and others, so I know a little bit about the costs and the benefits.

The Democrats subscribe to an amazing ideology that says that letting businesses keep more of their own money will cause the economy to capsize but a $1.5 trillion tax hike on businesses and investors will create jobs. Yes, and injecting Elmer's glue into your veins is a good way to prevent a heart attack.

Let's start with her claim that the plan will cost $5 trillion. That's wrong. When taking into account the higher economic growth from the lower tax rates on businesses and workers, the plan's "cost" is about half that size. The Tax Foundation finds the plan will raise the GDP growth rate by almost 1 percentage point over a decade, and that means lots of jobs and additional tax revenue for the government. The best way to balance the budget is to put Americans back to work.

The $2.5 trillion "cost" of the tax cut can and will easily be made up by cutting government spending. Over the next decade the government is expected to spend almost $50 trillion. Surely, with sound, business-like leadership, we can save 5 cents on the dollar.

Next, she says that tax cuts have never worked to revive the economy. We believe that cutting taxes for 26 million small businesses will be a huge incentive for more hiring and expansion by businesses that are now taxed at as high as 40 percent. The American Enterprise Institute finds that the biggest beneficiary of a business tax cut is the American worker, whose wages will go up from more capital spending. If a trucking company goes from 50 trucks to 75, that's 25 more truckers it will need to hire.

Clinton needs a tax-cut history lesson. "Supply-side" tax rates were at the heart of the Reagan economic plan in the 1980s. The Reagan expansion, with lower taxes, was twice as powerful as the anemic Obama recovery, with higher taxes and more government spending. The difference in the two recoveries is nearly $3 trillion in lost output. Similarly, the John F. Kennedy tax cuts got us 5 and 6 percent growth. JFK was right: The best way to raise revenues is to "cut tax rates now." Even Bill Clinton agreed to a capital gains tax cut, which led to a gusher of new federal revenues.


Next, Clinton claims that only rich people such as Trump himself will benefit from this "trumped up" tax plan. She obviously hasn't read the tax plan. By design, the tax rate reductions for the rich are offset almost dollar for dollar by the loss of $250 billion a year in tax deductions for rich people. So, the overall tax burden of most millionaires and billionaires is not changed. Almost all of the benefit in dollar terms from the tax plan goes to the middle class (and owners of small businesses). We think they deserve a break after a decade that has wiped out financial savings of the middle class. With Obamacare premiums rising by 10 to 30 percent in many states this year, families need the tax cut desperately.

The nonpartisan Tax Foundation calculates that the Trump tax plan causes a rise of after-tax income by about 8 percent, or $4,000 for the average middle-class household, while the Clinton plan shrinks incomes.

What Clinton isn't telling you is that she and her liberal friends are against tax cuts because they want to spend the money on "free" everything. This includes the silliest idea of all time: hundreds of billions for 500 million solar panels. Get ready for a cascade of dozens of new Solyndras. How much money is going to go to Elon Musk from this corporate-welfare giveaway? It could be in the tens of billions of dollars. So, whose policies benefit the rich and the political class?

Hillary Clinton is offering the American people trickle-down government.

When has that ever worked?

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
holfresh
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Joined: 1/14/2006
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12/1/2016  4:22 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/1/2016  4:23 PM
earthmansurfer wrote:
holfresh wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:
holfresh wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:
djsunyc wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:Can you see no joy in anything, seriously? He just saved 1000 jobs and you and other Hillary supporters have nothing positive to say.
Trump is doing Obama's job right now. No excuse for how poorly Obama has done.

Trump is creating a different tax system to help everyone, from the poor to the rich (lower taxes for all). Yeah, Trump took advantage of loopholes in the system as all businesses do. But there are ways to help to keep jobs in America too.

I hope companies would have some pride to come back to America, instead of just buying back stock and crap like that. If not, then they are digging our grave. But I'm sure a little pressure in the right places will work.

ems - i understand you are supporting trump and believe in his plans. can you post links on how trump's trickle down plan will help the economy? can you also post links on how trumps tax cuts will help the economy? from many accounts of independent financial experts, his plans will not help. i would like to read some articles on where it will - i'm genuinely curious to read the other side of it.

as for the carrier jobs - yes, to those 1000 employees, trump did his job. but the other people of indiana are now helping to pay for those jobs to stay - without their consent. i'm glad those 1000 people can keep working - but the full financial ramifications are yet to be determined until a few years from now. i can't deny the optics of it but when it comes to politicians, we need to look closer.

Trump doesn't have a trickle down plan. We all know trickle down economics doesn't work.
Everyone, from poor to rich gets a tax break. More money, more spending. I have no links to give, you can search, but trying to find anything remotely positive on MSM is going to be hard, might have to go to alt media. What we all know now, is what we are doing doesn't work. Sending jobs overseas and making companies richer is not going to work. We need something drastically different and we need to take a big chance cause this economy is on its last gasp.

I will search for some information but it is all theoretical, right? I mean, what works? Were there studies that Reagonomics would work? As long as we keep spending more money than we take in, having wars and killing all around the world, sending jobs overseas, taxing people to the point that they can't survive, etc. we are not going to succeed as a peoples.

Re Carrier jobs, would you rather pay unemployment for 1,000 people for 2 years or whatever it may be? Do the math. The tax money those workers pay in a few months alone will pay for itself. $700 per person per year to keep 1000 jobs in the country. That is a no brainer and you do that every day of the week, as the alternative is suicide.

What are you talking, they are cutting Corporate taxes to 15%, also tax holiday to bring money from overseas...

Can you be more clear? I have posted his numbers before. I am aware the tax cuts are across the board.



I know it's MSM but here goes the dude from Goldman:

Thanks, was interesting. I don't know much about tax cuts. I was under the assumption that trickle down was more just in that direction (rich to poor) but that Trumps tax cuts are across the board. So, the economy is not (just) stimulated by companies having more to spend and bringing jobs home but also cause people at the bottom, in the middle, etc. also have more to spend.

I found this article, was written by a person who helped Trump, Kudlow, Clovis, etc. with the plan.

Trump's Plan Isn't Trickle-Down Economics

http://www.newsmax.com/Finance/StephenMoore/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-trickle-down-economics/2016/10/04/id/751523/

Hillary Clinton keeps bashing the Trump tax plan as "trumped-up trickle-down economics." This class-warfare card has become the standard and tired response to every Republican tax reform plan for 30 years.

No wonder we haven't cleaned out the stables of the tax code since the Reagan era. Democrats have no interest in doing so.

Clinton's claim is that the plan will blow a hole in the debt (which is rich coming from someone who worked for an administration that nearly doubled the debt in eight years) and that the benefits all go to the rich. She also says it will cost jobs and could even cause a recession.

I worked on devising the Trump tax plan with economists Larry Kudlow, Sam Clovis and others, so I know a little bit about the costs and the benefits.

The Democrats subscribe to an amazing ideology that says that letting businesses keep more of their own money will cause the economy to capsize but a $1.5 trillion tax hike on businesses and investors will create jobs. Yes, and injecting Elmer's glue into your veins is a good way to prevent a heart attack.

Let's start with her claim that the plan will cost $5 trillion. That's wrong. When taking into account the higher economic growth from the lower tax rates on businesses and workers, the plan's "cost" is about half that size. The Tax Foundation finds the plan will raise the GDP growth rate by almost 1 percentage point over a decade, and that means lots of jobs and additional tax revenue for the government. The best way to balance the budget is to put Americans back to work.

The $2.5 trillion "cost" of the tax cut can and will easily be made up by cutting government spending. Over the next decade the government is expected to spend almost $50 trillion. Surely, with sound, business-like leadership, we can save 5 cents on the dollar.

Next, she says that tax cuts have never worked to revive the economy. We believe that cutting taxes for 26 million small businesses will be a huge incentive for more hiring and expansion by businesses that are now taxed at as high as 40 percent. The American Enterprise Institute finds that the biggest beneficiary of a business tax cut is the American worker, whose wages will go up from more capital spending. If a trucking company goes from 50 trucks to 75, that's 25 more truckers it will need to hire.

Clinton needs a tax-cut history lesson. "Supply-side" tax rates were at the heart of the Reagan economic plan in the 1980s. The Reagan expansion, with lower taxes, was twice as powerful as the anemic Obama recovery, with higher taxes and more government spending. The difference in the two recoveries is nearly $3 trillion in lost output. Similarly, the John F. Kennedy tax cuts got us 5 and 6 percent growth. JFK was right: The best way to raise revenues is to "cut tax rates now." Even Bill Clinton agreed to a capital gains tax cut, which led to a gusher of new federal revenues.


Next, Clinton claims that only rich people such as Trump himself will benefit from this "trumped up" tax plan. She obviously hasn't read the tax plan. By design, the tax rate reductions for the rich are offset almost dollar for dollar by the loss of $250 billion a year in tax deductions for rich people. So, the overall tax burden of most millionaires and billionaires is not changed. Almost all of the benefit in dollar terms from the tax plan goes to the middle class (and owners of small businesses). We think they deserve a break after a decade that has wiped out financial savings of the middle class. With Obamacare premiums rising by 10 to 30 percent in many states this year, families need the tax cut desperately.

The nonpartisan Tax Foundation calculates that the Trump tax plan causes a rise of after-tax income by about 8 percent, or $4,000 for the average middle-class household, while the Clinton plan shrinks incomes.

What Clinton isn't telling you is that she and her liberal friends are against tax cuts because they want to spend the money on "free" everything. This includes the silliest idea of all time: hundreds of billions for 500 million solar panels. Get ready for a cascade of dozens of new Solyndras. How much money is going to go to Elon Musk from this corporate-welfare giveaway? It could be in the tens of billions of dollars. So, whose policies benefit the rich and the political class?

Hillary Clinton is offering the American people trickle-down government.

When has that ever worked?


Kudlow was just helping out so Trump could sound sensible on the campaign trail..These two guys are the guys that will make economic policy..Kudlow can't hang with these guys...
holfresh
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12/1/2016  4:59 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/1/2016  5:20 PM
EMS

They always say the tax cuts to companies will create jobs..That's trickle down...They say the extra money made by companies will go to create jobs...Not true, Companies are using their extra money to buy back stock at historic levels...Mocrosoft, Google and Apple have 500 billion dollars in cash..Are they waiting for a tax cut to create jobs??..No they are buying back stock..

But my problem is that Trump and his crew knows this..It's a gigantic money grab..How much is enough??...The deficit hawks are going to put a bigger hole in our deficit and create more debt...Republicans only care about deficits when they aren't governing...
WaltLongmire
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12/1/2016  5:01 PM
holfresh wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:
holfresh wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:
djsunyc wrote:let's keep all politics in one place :)

so...

rachel maddow just revealed that indiana will be paying $700K/year to carrier to keep the jobs in the US. it is tax payer money that the governer (pence) can approve. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

700,000 USD / 1,000 workers = $700 per person per year.
How much would the average worker get per month? X 12
Sounds like a good savings to the State and a creative way to care about American workers, Thank God it is about time.


Looks like Obama was wrong here...

Not really accurate the heading on the clip is it???..What Obama is referring to is NAFTA and all the jobs has disappeared since NAFTA was implemented...85% due to automation and technology by the way,DJ posted the link in the other tread about this already...How is he going to bring those jobs back when Trump himself has his ties and shirts made overseas??..Are Trump ties now going to be made in the US???

Can you see no joy in anything, seriously? He just saved 1000 jobs and you and other Hillary supporters have nothing positive to say.
Trump is doing Obama's job right now. No excuse for how poorly Obama has done.

Trump is creating a different tax system to help everyone, from the poor to the rich (lower taxes for all). Yeah, Trump took advantage of loopholes in the system as all businesses do. But there are ways to help to keep jobs in America too.

I hope companies would have some pride to come back to America, instead of just buying back stock and crap like that. If not, then they are digging our grave. But I'm sure a little pressure in the right places will work.

Window dressing, dog and pony show, outside of this particular act, Trump is angling to do the exact opposite of what he ran on..He is already waffling on his populist message..I don't care, I never believed anything he said anyway, so no shock there...

I expect that the actual deal was something Pence was working on.

Remember...Trump is good at getting credit/publicity for things he did not do...this is one of the most egregious examples:
http://www.complex.com/life/2016/10/trump-crashed-charity-event-macarena-didnt-donate

“I can give you an argument, but I cannot give you an understanding.” – Samuel Johnson
holfresh
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12/1/2016  5:23 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/1/2016  5:29 PM
Im watching CSpan right now..Republicans in the house talking about corporate tax cuts to help the deficit..It's comical..I had math in school..A negative number plus another negative number makes a bigger negative number..

Talking about elimination of the death tax..Trump's kids must be creaming themselves..

I wonder what's in it for these congressmen..Maybe the lobbyist just working them before they kick out that Christmas bonus..
WaltLongmire
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12/1/2016  5:31 PM
For anyone who doesn't know about Pepe the Frog as a hate symbol...

I know it was not originally an offensive symbol...but neither was the swastika, a design used thousands of years before the Nazis.

If you actually go to Alt-Right sites on the web or check out certain Twitter accounts you see Pepe on a regular basis.

Anyone using this symbol in a political discussion is getting called out by me if I happen to see it. "Alt-Right," Neo-Nazi, White Supremacy stuff has no place around here.

I understand that we have some folks around here with racist views, but using something now listed as a symbol of hate by the ADL does not see appropriate around here.

“I can give you an argument, but I cannot give you an understanding.” – Samuel Johnson
WaltLongmire
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12/1/2016  5:39 PM
holfresh wrote:Im watching CSpan right now..Republicans in the house talking about corporate tax cuts to help the deficit..It's comical..I had math in school..A negative number plus another negative number makes a bigger negative number..

Talking about elimination of the death tax..Trump's kids must be creaming themselves..

I wonder what's in it for these congressmen..Maybe the lobbyist just working them before they kick out that Christmas bonus..

Trickle down...one more time. Never worked...never will, but the GOP has an addiction to it.
“I can give you an argument, but I cannot give you an understanding.” – Samuel Johnson
arkrud
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12/1/2016  6:00 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
holfresh wrote:Im watching CSpan right now..Republicans in the house talking about corporate tax cuts to help the deficit..It's comical..I had math in school..A negative number plus another negative number makes a bigger negative number..

Talking about elimination of the death tax..Trump's kids must be creaming themselves..

I wonder what's in it for these congressmen..Maybe the lobbyist just working them before they kick out that Christmas bonus..

Trickle down...one more time. Never worked...never will, but the GOP has an addiction to it.

Trickle down surely works... raining down does not...
Person on social help or min salary in US has more purchasing power that middle class in Russia or upper middle class in Tanzania.
No one will never be satisfied with what is trickling down and no one should.
Humans need to stay motivated to even move the finger not talking about working hard.

He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
holfresh
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12/1/2016  6:11 PM
WaltLongmire
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12/1/2016  6:48 PM
arkrud wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
holfresh wrote:Im watching CSpan right now..Republicans in the house talking about corporate tax cuts to help the deficit..It's comical..I had math in school..A negative number plus another negative number makes a bigger negative number..

Talking about elimination of the death tax..Trump's kids must be creaming themselves..

I wonder what's in it for these congressmen..Maybe the lobbyist just working them before they kick out that Christmas bonus..

Trickle down...one more time. Never worked...never will, but the GOP has an addiction to it.

Trickle down surely works... raining down does not...
Person on social help or min salary in US has more purchasing power that middle class in Russia or upper middle class in Tanzania.
No one will never be satisfied with what is trickling down and no one should.
Humans need to stay motivated to even move the finger not talking about working hard.

Wealth distribution will get out of hand even more...Trickle means more profit for executives... a bitter way of describing it is "trickle over," or "Trickle Up." Add the minimum wage hike aversion by the GOP and continued attempts to weaken unions, and things are going to get ugly at some point.

“I can give you an argument, but I cannot give you an understanding.” – Samuel Johnson
WaltLongmire
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12/1/2016  7:18 PM
Sanders on Carrier steal deal...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/12/01/bernie-sanders-carrier-just-showed-corporations-how-to-beat-donald-trump/?utm_term=.cdfef604b755
“I can give you an argument, but I cannot give you an understanding.” – Samuel Johnson
OT: Politics Thread

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