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Official other 29 team NBA thread not related to Knicks 2016-17 season
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TripleThreat
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3/14/2017  11:40 PM
smackeddog wrote:Didn't the last CBA put a stop to sign and trades?


To my best understanding, sign and trades did not disappear, but they shifted into being so operationally limited, that they are pretty much useless to teams that would want/need to use them.

You can't sign and trade to go over the cap.

The Jason Kidd to Dallas trade shifted a lot of things in the league. The Mavs signed Keith Van Horn to a phantom contract to make the money work. He was essentially paid to be a salary filler since he never formally filed his retirement papers ( my guess is as a favor to Mark Cuban, who has open friendships with many players, esp his players) The league even shifted it's Over 36 Rule into an Over 38 Rule, to keep closing off loopholes to allow one team to stack talent, even if they are ok the cash penalties with a soft cap situation.

The reason sign and trades didn't disappear completely is they form a type of compensation system. I.E. in MLB, if the Yankees sign free agent X to a big contract, they have to forfeit their top draft pick for him. ( this is a pretty simplified take, it's obviously more complex in MLB than this) The NFL also has a compensation system for lost free agents. The NBA doesn't really have a system other than sign and trades. In order to give Bosh and LBJ max money, they didn't sign technically as free agents with the Heat, they ended up in sign and trades. While that must have tasted like crap to the Raptors and Cavs, it was better than getting nothing at all.

I think folks here are far far far overestimating Rose possible off season trade value. Given where he stands now, to go to a team who might actually win, he might have to take a "prove it" type deal. Which would vest him onto a new franchise , etc, etc so they can sign him to a longer deal after that first year.

Rose is gone, he was a bad trade, the Knicks aren't getting anything for him, once he leaves, he's addition by subtraction.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
AUTOADVERT
CrushAlot
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3/15/2017  12:19 AM
I've seen scant proof that a majestic aura trumps a sound plan, but maybe that's just because I wasn't looking at Phil Jackson... Seth Rosenthal 2014
CrushAlot
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3/15/2017  12:35 AM
Warriors down 7 to the sixers with 10 mins to go in the fourth.
I've seen scant proof that a majestic aura trumps a sound plan, but maybe that's just because I wasn't looking at Phil Jackson... Seth Rosenthal 2014
WaltLongmire
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3/15/2017  11:33 PM
Saric with another fine game.

My feeling is that he will suffer as a player if the Sixers eventually decides to run their offense through Ben Simmons.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
smackeddog
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3/16/2017  4:04 AM
WaltLongmire wrote:Saric with another fine game.

My feeling is that he will suffer as a player if the Sixers eventually decides to run their offense through Ben Simmons.

He was taken with our 2014 first rounder- bah!

WaltLongmire
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3/16/2017  1:45 PM
smackeddog wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:Saric with another fine game.

My feeling is that he will suffer as a player if the Sixers eventually decides to run their offense through Ben Simmons.

He was taken with our 2014 first rounder- bah!


Great...something else to be pissed off about.

Remember too, that he was a draft and stash...drafting him that year would not have boosted our record at all, and in theory, we would have been in the same situation in terms of the 2015 draft.

So it goes.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
y2zipper
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3/16/2017  2:23 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Didn't the last CBA put a stop to sign and trades?


To my best understanding, sign and trades did not disappear, but they shifted into being so operationally limited, that they are pretty much useless to teams that would want/need to use them.

You can't sign and trade to go over the cap.

The Jason Kidd to Dallas trade shifted a lot of things in the league. The Mavs signed Keith Van Horn to a phantom contract to make the money work. He was essentially paid to be a salary filler since he never formally filed his retirement papers ( my guess is as a favor to Mark Cuban, who has open friendships with many players, esp his players) The league even shifted it's Over 36 Rule into an Over 38 Rule, to keep closing off loopholes to allow one team to stack talent, even if they are ok the cash penalties with a soft cap situation.

The reason sign and trades didn't disappear completely is they form a type of compensation system. I.E. in MLB, if the Yankees sign free agent X to a big contract, they have to forfeit their top draft pick for him. ( this is a pretty simplified take, it's obviously more complex in MLB than this) The NFL also has a compensation system for lost free agents. The NBA doesn't really have a system other than sign and trades. In order to give Bosh and LBJ max money, they didn't sign technically as free agents with the Heat, they ended up in sign and trades. While that must have tasted like crap to the Raptors and Cavs, it was better than getting nothing at all.

I think folks here are far far far overestimating Rose possible off season trade value. Given where he stands now, to go to a team who might actually win, he might have to take a "prove it" type deal. Which would vest him onto a new franchise , etc, etc so they can sign him to a longer deal after that first year.

Rose is gone, he was a bad trade, the Knicks aren't getting anything for him, once he leaves, he's addition by subtraction.

The other thing that happened was that players don't get to keep their bird rights when they are signed and traded so there's no benefit for a player to accept one of these.

CrushAlot
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3/16/2017  7:31 PM
Source: Nets GM Sean Marks bound for CSKA vs Dacka on March 22. Lots of NBA talent: MILOS TEODOSIC, Will Clyburn, Brad Wanamaker.

— David Pick (@IAmDPick) March 16, 2017

I've seen scant proof that a majestic aura trumps a sound plan, but maybe that's just because I wasn't looking at Phil Jackson... Seth Rosenthal 2014
CrushAlot
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3/16/2017  7:35 PM
Article on the Twolves recent success and KAT.
http://stats.nba.com/articles/#!/whos-afraid-of-the-big-bad-wolves/
I've seen scant proof that a majestic aura trumps a sound plan, but maybe that's just because I wasn't looking at Phil Jackson... Seth Rosenthal 2014
smackeddog
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3/18/2017  5:06 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/18/2017  5:06 AM
The Los Angeles Clippers are 5-8 since mid-February and have lost three straight.

“I don’t know what to expect from this team anymore,” J.J. Redick said after their loss at Denver. “We’re in a bad place right now. We’re losing games. We’ve been (garbage) since the All-Star break.”

Redick will be one of the many Clippers' free agents and has been considered the most likely candidate to leave the franchise in the offseason.

The Clippers traded for Redick in 2013.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/245334/JJ-Redick-Clippers-In-A-Bad-Place-Right-Now

Clips don't seem to be doing well at the moment, I wonder if Redick and Griffin will leave this offseason (Griffin and CP3 don't particularly like each other and CP3 has already said he will opt out and re-sign). If Griffin goes and or if redick goes (I don't see them being able to re-sign redick simply because of the luxury tax hit), I wonder if that makes them more or less likely to trade for Melo. It would make a trade easier because we wouldn't have to take on as much crap salary as they would have cap space.

BRIGGS
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3/19/2017  11:49 AM
I didn't think so a week ago after Indiana but I see the path to pick 4( which puts us in the game for pick 1 or 2 and odds say 5 at worst

Forget all this other talk-- right now we need positioning -- we really need to lose the rest of our games

smackeddog
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3/19/2017  12:05 PM
BRIGGS wrote:I didn't think so a week ago after Indiana but I see the path to pick 4( which puts us in the game for pick 1 or 2 and odds say 5 at worst

Forget all this other talk-- right now we need positioning -- we really need to lose the rest of our games

I think 5th is possible, not so much 4th, mainly because looking at their remaining schedules I don't see both the Magic and Sixers falling behind us in the tank standings- the key is how the Nets play vs them (I think they both have 2 games against the nets), how the Magic vs Sixers game goes and then our last game vs the Sixers. Mind you, it would be horrible if we tanked that last game, ended with a poorer record but then they overtook us in the lottery!

BRIGGS
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3/19/2017  11:51 PM
Wow man if you can't see y Lonzo ball should be pick 1 u r missing it.
magicTs
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3/20/2017  12:08 AM
BRIGGS wrote:Wow man if you can't see y Lonzo ball should be pick 1 u r missing it.

He's going to end up being a megastar for the Celtics isn't he. Brutal.

crzymdups
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3/20/2017  12:31 AM
magicTs wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Wow man if you can't see y Lonzo ball should be pick 1 u r missing it.

He's going to end up being a megastar for the Celtics isn't he. Brutal.

I predict Suns or Lakers will get Ball. (League gifts new Lakers president Magic the new Show Time?) That's fine by me if we get Josh Jackson.

¿ △ ?
holfresh
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3/21/2017  5:59 PM
Jerry Krause dies...Bulls GM..
crzymdups
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3/25/2017  2:58 AM
Wait... Devin Booker had 70??!?!!?!?

http://www.espn.com/nba/recap?gameId=400900471

¿ △ ?
CrushAlot
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3/27/2017  8:38 PM

If Vlade is out Phil is all alone.
I've seen scant proof that a majestic aura trumps a sound plan, but maybe that's just because I wasn't looking at Phil Jackson... Seth Rosenthal 2014
crzymdups
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3/27/2017  9:31 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
If Vlade is out Phil is all alone.

Sounds like Vlade didn't like that report

¿ △ ?
CrushAlot
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3/27/2017  9:56 PM
Wojo is on it as well.

I've seen scant proof that a majestic aura trumps a sound plan, but maybe that's just because I wasn't looking at Phil Jackson... Seth Rosenthal 2014
Official other 29 team NBA thread not related to Knicks 2016-17 season

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