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L.A. police investigating complaint against Knicks guard Derrick Rose
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mreinman
Posts: 37827
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9/26/2016  4:29 PM
crzymdups wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
mreinman wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I read somewhere that Doe and her lawyers are pursuing a criminal case to try to pressure the judge not to release her identity. The pretrial motions that were ruled on on 9/23 didn't go that well for Doe. Her roommate will be allowed to testify for Rose and her identity will be revealed. The judge did rule that Rose could not bring Doe's social relationship with one of her attorneys into evidence. I posted it in the link to the motions in the off topic thread but I don't know how many people go there to read the thread. Again, the White Bronco Site is the closest thing to just presenting legal documents on the case that is out there.
http://thewhitebronco.com/2016/09/derrick-rose-lawsuit-update-friday-september-23-2016/

Didn't go that well for Doe was a bit misleading as well as only mentioning the things that did not go well for her. Even the one you mentioned that did go well for her (her alleged relationship with her attorney not being permissible) came across as a slut shaming tactic (though I am not claiming to know if this was your intent) ... so let me help out here and post the rulings (pros/cons for both sides):


The Judge Threatens Rose And His Legal Team

In the same Order, the Judge threatened to sanction Rose if he “continues to utilize language that shames and blames the victims of rape…” This isn’t the first time that he has scolding Rose’s lawyers. In an earlier order, after Rose argued that Doe should be forced to reveal her identity because she had social media posts that “are sexual in nature,” he wrote that Rose’s “rhetoric has no place in this Court.”

In a separate order released earlier this week, the Judge required Rose’s lead attorney Mark Baute to explain in writing to the court why he shouldn’t be sanctioned $1,000.00 for failing to use Doe’s pseudonym in open court.

Numerous Other Evidentiary Rulings

The parties filed 15 motions seeking to exclude evidence and witnesses (more on that here) and the judge ruled on many of them this week. Here are the highlights:

PDF of the Court’s Order
Rose can only use five (he wanted to use 34) photographs depicting Doe partying in Las Vegas weeks after the alleged assault.
Rose cannot introduce evidence regarding Doe’s “social relationship” with her attorney Brandon Anand.
For now, Rose cannot introduce evidence of Doe’s prior relationships and sexual predispositions. Rose sought to introduce evidence that Doe dated numerous other NBA players and had a tubal pregnancy during her last relationship before she met Rose. The Judge will revisit this issue during the next hearing on September 29th.
Rose can call Doe’s former roommate and coworker Keyana Lavergne. Ms. Lavergne recently filed a declaration that she cannot attend trial because she just moved to Miami, but Rose’s team plan on introducing her deposition testimony where she testified that Doe’s lawsuit is financially motivated.
Doe cannot introduce evidence that co-defendant Allen called escort services and sex workers.
Doe can testify that she felt drugged during the night of August 27, 2013.
The Judge scheduled an additional pretrial hearing for September 29th. Most of the key pretrial issues are settled, but a few evidentiary issues remaining including: whether Doe will be able to call a witness to testify about Rose’s SAT incident and the related NCAA investigation at the University of Memphis; whether Doe will be able to introduce video’s of her alleged PTSD symptoms (including acne); and, whether a few other witnesses will be allowed to testify.

In regards to the lawyer/Doe relationship the roommate has given testimony that they have gotten high together in front of her on at least 20 occasions, that Doe gets favors from the lawyer and that the lawyer seems to be fond of Doe. Nothing sexual but the actions certainly seem to be inappropriate. This is a nasty case. The lawyers for both sides do not appear to like or respect each other. You don't think the biggest ruling was that Doe's identity will be revealed? Also, the 'For Now' ruling about her sexual past seems to indicate that this could change.
I do prefer referencing trial documents as both sides have told different versions of what happened.

To me, the way the judge has treated this case pre-trial and the way the police have sort of non-chalantly said "we'll see where this goes" and haven't even forced Rose to come in for questioning... I mean... I agree that rapes and sexual assault are under reported and victims ought to be treated seriously... but Doe went for the money first and seems to have only gone to the police to protect her identity and to help her case. She went to the police two years after the incident... which is fine... but she went to Rose for hush money first and then filed a civil trial for $20M before pressing charges. Hushing sexual assault victims is serious business... but this really seems fishy as hell to me, and I thought so before Rose was ever a Knick. Extortion is also serious business and a crime. I hope justice is served in this case - and if I'm wrong I'll happily admit it. But even this girl's roommate seems to be against her in this case. I dunno. It seems fishy as all hell.

do any of his actions seem fishy to you during their relationship or on that night? Have your read through the court documents so that you fully understand all claims and the documentation?

Your take is probably how most knicks fans feel. Its much more split on non sports/non-knick sites and of course most women are probably all on the other side of the fence. The psychology of how everybody reacts to this is incredible.

Please please read this article (he is a knicks fan):

https://theringer.com/derrick-rose-rape-case-and-nba-fandom-bfd92e771d61#.798oklr2d

so here is what phil is thinking ....
AUTOADVERT
HofstraBBall
Posts: 22352
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Joined: 11/21/2015
Member: #6192

9/26/2016  4:31 PM
mreinman wrote:
Nalod wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:Looks like the UK faithful mostly don't believe her and say that she looks bad.

Maybe she looks bad especially with the slut shaming defense in full effect but DERRICK ROSE LOOKS PRETTY AWFUL TOO.

I think you're ignoring many of the obvious problems with how she went about handling this. It could be that Rose did do something wrong in this case but it doesn't help her case that she 1st tried to get money out of him. I think that there is enough evidence to cast doubt on her version of things as well.

Unfortunately that is often the case in a situation where there was an existing consensual relationship. It makes it harder to prosecute such a case. This isn't a simple case from what i've read so far. Until we see all of the evidence and testimony it's impossible to say for sure just what happened.

ok ... so you think that she has cast doubt on herself, got it. What do you think about him? What he did? How he looks? How this would look to you if you were not a big knick fan, and perhaps you were even a woman? Or a mother? Would you be singing the same tune?

Remember, it took 80 woman to bring down Bill Cosby. Why do you think that is/was?

Putting Qualudes in the Jello did take a very large sample but it took over 30 years as well.

While that is actually funny, I am not sure that its tasteful in this context ... still smiling though I am mad at myself for doing it.

The only reason the women's lawyers are pushing the letter about the criminal investigation, which there have been no charges filed, is because they lost the motion to keep her identity confidential. Which seems to be an obvious negative to their case, in their opinion. And I don't think its because she doesn't want her family to know. Probably because there will be droves of witnesses with unfavorable character testimony of her. But I love how she claims she did not know the difference between a civil suit and a criminal case? Lmao. The difference is about $21.5 million. And I am sure she knew that figure.

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
crzymdups
Posts: 52015
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Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
9/26/2016  4:37 PM
mreinman wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
mreinman wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I read somewhere that Doe and her lawyers are pursuing a criminal case to try to pressure the judge not to release her identity. The pretrial motions that were ruled on on 9/23 didn't go that well for Doe. Her roommate will be allowed to testify for Rose and her identity will be revealed. The judge did rule that Rose could not bring Doe's social relationship with one of her attorneys into evidence. I posted it in the link to the motions in the off topic thread but I don't know how many people go there to read the thread. Again, the White Bronco Site is the closest thing to just presenting legal documents on the case that is out there.
http://thewhitebronco.com/2016/09/derrick-rose-lawsuit-update-friday-september-23-2016/

Didn't go that well for Doe was a bit misleading as well as only mentioning the things that did not go well for her. Even the one you mentioned that did go well for her (her alleged relationship with her attorney not being permissible) came across as a slut shaming tactic (though I am not claiming to know if this was your intent) ... so let me help out here and post the rulings (pros/cons for both sides):


The Judge Threatens Rose And His Legal Team

In the same Order, the Judge threatened to sanction Rose if he “continues to utilize language that shames and blames the victims of rape…” This isn’t the first time that he has scolding Rose’s lawyers. In an earlier order, after Rose argued that Doe should be forced to reveal her identity because she had social media posts that “are sexual in nature,” he wrote that Rose’s “rhetoric has no place in this Court.”

In a separate order released earlier this week, the Judge required Rose’s lead attorney Mark Baute to explain in writing to the court why he shouldn’t be sanctioned $1,000.00 for failing to use Doe’s pseudonym in open court.

Numerous Other Evidentiary Rulings

The parties filed 15 motions seeking to exclude evidence and witnesses (more on that here) and the judge ruled on many of them this week. Here are the highlights:

PDF of the Court’s Order
Rose can only use five (he wanted to use 34) photographs depicting Doe partying in Las Vegas weeks after the alleged assault.
Rose cannot introduce evidence regarding Doe’s “social relationship” with her attorney Brandon Anand.
For now, Rose cannot introduce evidence of Doe’s prior relationships and sexual predispositions. Rose sought to introduce evidence that Doe dated numerous other NBA players and had a tubal pregnancy during her last relationship before she met Rose. The Judge will revisit this issue during the next hearing on September 29th.
Rose can call Doe’s former roommate and coworker Keyana Lavergne. Ms. Lavergne recently filed a declaration that she cannot attend trial because she just moved to Miami, but Rose’s team plan on introducing her deposition testimony where she testified that Doe’s lawsuit is financially motivated.
Doe cannot introduce evidence that co-defendant Allen called escort services and sex workers.
Doe can testify that she felt drugged during the night of August 27, 2013.
The Judge scheduled an additional pretrial hearing for September 29th. Most of the key pretrial issues are settled, but a few evidentiary issues remaining including: whether Doe will be able to call a witness to testify about Rose’s SAT incident and the related NCAA investigation at the University of Memphis; whether Doe will be able to introduce video’s of her alleged PTSD symptoms (including acne); and, whether a few other witnesses will be allowed to testify.

In regards to the lawyer/Doe relationship the roommate has given testimony that they have gotten high together in front of her on at least 20 occasions, that Doe gets favors from the lawyer and that the lawyer seems to be fond of Doe. Nothing sexual but the actions certainly seem to be inappropriate. This is a nasty case. The lawyers for both sides do not appear to like or respect each other. You don't think the biggest ruling was that Doe's identity will be revealed? Also, the 'For Now' ruling about her sexual past seems to indicate that this could change.
I do prefer referencing trial documents as both sides have told different versions of what happened.

To me, the way the judge has treated this case pre-trial and the way the police have sort of non-chalantly said "we'll see where this goes" and haven't even forced Rose to come in for questioning... I mean... I agree that rapes and sexual assault are under reported and victims ought to be treated seriously... but Doe went for the money first and seems to have only gone to the police to protect her identity and to help her case. She went to the police two years after the incident... which is fine... but she went to Rose for hush money first and then filed a civil trial for $20M before pressing charges. Hushing sexual assault victims is serious business... but this really seems fishy as hell to me, and I thought so before Rose was ever a Knick. Extortion is also serious business and a crime. I hope justice is served in this case - and if I'm wrong I'll happily admit it. But even this girl's roommate seems to be against her in this case. I dunno. It seems fishy as all hell.

do any of his actions seem fishy to you during their relationship or on that night? Have your read through the court documents so that you fully understand all claims and the documentation?

Your take is probably how most knicks fans feel. Its much more split on non sports/non-knick sites and of course most women are probably all on the other side of the fence. The psychology of how everybody reacts to this is incredible.

Please please read this article (he is a knicks fan):

https://theringer.com/derrick-rose-rape-case-and-nba-fandom-bfd92e771d61#.798oklr2d

I am very familiar with Jason's work. And I read the court documents. But I am not in the court room and neither are you. And obviously no one else was there that night. I hope justice is served... but I am just saying that my gut reaction is that there is fishy stuff in this case. We'll see how it plays out.

¿ △ ?
mreinman
Posts: 37827
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Joined: 7/14/2010
Member: #3189

9/26/2016  4:38 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:Looks like the UK faithful mostly don't believe her and say that she looks bad.

Maybe she looks bad especially with the slut shaming defense in full effect but DERRICK ROSE LOOKS PRETTY AWFUL TOO.

I think you're ignoring many of the obvious problems with how she went about handling this. It could be that Rose did do something wrong in this case but it doesn't help her case that she 1st tried to get money out of him. I think that there is enough evidence to cast doubt on her version of things as well.

Unfortunately that is often the case in a situation where there was an existing consensual relationship. It makes it harder to prosecute such a case. This isn't a simple case from what i've read so far. Until we see all of the evidence and testimony it's impossible to say for sure just what happened.

ok ... so you think that she has cast doubt on herself, got it. What do you think about him? What he did? How he looks? How this would look to you if you were not a big knick fan, and perhaps you were even a woman? Or a mother? Would you be singing the same tune?

Remember, it took 80 woman to bring down Bill Cosby. Why do you think that is/was?


The allegations against Rose sound bad. I'm merely stating the information from both sides, whereas you seem to keep focus on things from her side. If you RE READ what I wrote you may notice that i've never said anything about Rose being guilty or innocent of anything and i've also written my personal disgust for what is reported to have happened in other threads. However, i'm not in a position to say how much is true or false from either side. What I posted above was FACT, that nothing has changed. The investigation was ongoing but no charges had been made. Doe first filed the Civil Suit then later filed the Police Report.

you seem to continuously try to poke holes in her story. That is not a good look and I don't see you doing that with him. Not sure that you even see your own bias.

I don't know if it was full fledged gang rape because I have no idea how drunk she was and if it was too drunk to consent. I have read s lot about this grey area and it is very complicated.

No matter what, I think that what he did that we do know as fact is in itself abominable. Slut shaming her will not help that. Every one of these accusers get slut shamed which is probable why they are so underreported.

Please read this excellent article: https://theringer.com/derrick-rose-rape-case-and-nba-fandom-bfd92e771d61#.798oklr2d

This part really explains a lot about what is going on here on this board:

Sports are an escape from life’s quotidian problems, so it’s not surprising that fans react with vexation when those problems — representing the real world — intrude. We treat athletes as characters in a story. Market forces turn those characters into brands. When those athletes do something delightful and on-brand — J.R. Smith strutting around shirtless, for example — we’re only too eager to highlight it. When they do something outside of that box, we become annoyed — stick to sports! If they do something bad, more often than not we simply ignore it.

I'm not biased towards Rose. In fact I've stated over and over again how I feel about the Charges. What I haven't done is made up my mind as if I know exactly what happened or what parts of both sides stories are true or not. They will eventually either settle or go to trial. More information will come out and even then we may still not know the truth. You are the one who seems to have made up your mind.

I have made up my mind that we don't want to face that Rose is possibly a gang rapist being that he is ours now and we have/had such high hopes for him.

I have made up my mind that rose is either extremely dumb or has committed an abominable act (even if not found guilty of gang rape).

I have made up my mind that fans will be biased and choose to ignore and/or assist in the most commonly used slut shaming defense. I think that you should go back and read your posts and see if its really not obvious to yourself where you lean.

Again, please read the Jason Concepcion article that I posted.

To play devils advocate we could accuse that you and others dislike for Rose, which has been on display since he was traded for. Has influenced your perception all the same as you believe fandom is protecting him. I personally have no attachment to D.Rose. I'm rooting for landing Chris Paul in the offseason. I view him currently as a one year rental until proven otherwise but even with a good season his injury history may not make it worth it.

Regardless from an *outside look* two things are in favor for Rose imo. The fact that she was looking for a financial compensation over criminal charges given the accusation. And the fact that he hasn't been willing to jump at a settlement trying to avoid criminal charges. I mean if Rose set up this woman to get gang raped and she is *offering* financial compensation to keep her mouth shut about it. Then if guilty wouldn't most jump on that? By not doing so he would be risking his career and freedom. While she was looking for compensation without risking her identity.

I never hated Rose, I did not like the trade or his advanced stats. I never knew or was bothered by anything that he did personally.

By going after him or condemning him for this just because I did not care for the trade would be pretty sick. Who would put stupid sports ahead of something this serious?

Did you read all the data before you came to those 2 things being the only ones that bothered you on both sides?

She came after for him for money because she lost her job and she needed money desperately. Maybe it was a money grab or maybe she thought that he would take care of her and he didn't? There is so much to consider before coming to such an easy conclusion. We should all do much better due diligence before coming to uninformed conclusions.

The fact that Rose is not settling somehow is being viewed by some here as an indication of innocence. That premise makes zero sense to me. There are so many reasons for him to not settle this case yet nobody seems to be considering all of them.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
crzymdups
Posts: 52015
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Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
9/26/2016  4:40 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:Looks like the UK faithful mostly don't believe her and say that she looks bad.

Maybe she looks bad especially with the slut shaming defense in full effect but DERRICK ROSE LOOKS PRETTY AWFUL TOO.

I think you're ignoring many of the obvious problems with how she went about handling this. It could be that Rose did do something wrong in this case but it doesn't help her case that she 1st tried to get money out of him. I think that there is enough evidence to cast doubt on her version of things as well.

Unfortunately that is often the case in a situation where there was an existing consensual relationship. It makes it harder to prosecute such a case. This isn't a simple case from what i've read so far. Until we see all of the evidence and testimony it's impossible to say for sure just what happened.

ok ... so you think that she has cast doubt on herself, got it. What do you think about him? What he did? How he looks? How this would look to you if you were not a big knick fan, and perhaps you were even a woman? Or a mother? Would you be singing the same tune?

Remember, it took 80 woman to bring down Bill Cosby. Why do you think that is/was?


The allegations against Rose sound bad. I'm merely stating the information from both sides, whereas you seem to keep focus on things from her side. If you RE READ what I wrote you may notice that i've never said anything about Rose being guilty or innocent of anything and i've also written my personal disgust for what is reported to have happened in other threads. However, i'm not in a position to say how much is true or false from either side. What I posted above was FACT, that nothing has changed. The investigation was ongoing but no charges had been made. Doe first filed the Civil Suit then later filed the Police Report.

you seem to continuously try to poke holes in her story. That is not a good look and I don't see you doing that with him. Not sure that you even see your own bias.

I don't know if it was full fledged gang rape because I have no idea how drunk she was and if it was too drunk to consent. I have read s lot about this grey area and it is very complicated.

No matter what, I think that what he did that we do know as fact is in itself abominable. Slut shaming her will not help that. Every one of these accusers get slut shamed which is probable why they are so underreported.

Please read this excellent article: https://theringer.com/derrick-rose-rape-case-and-nba-fandom-bfd92e771d61#.798oklr2d

This part really explains a lot about what is going on here on this board:

Sports are an escape from life’s quotidian problems, so it’s not surprising that fans react with vexation when those problems — representing the real world — intrude. We treat athletes as characters in a story. Market forces turn those characters into brands. When those athletes do something delightful and on-brand — J.R. Smith strutting around shirtless, for example — we’re only too eager to highlight it. When they do something outside of that box, we become annoyed — stick to sports! If they do something bad, more often than not we simply ignore it.

I'm not biased towards Rose. In fact I've stated over and over again how I feel about the Charges. What I haven't done is made up my mind as if I know exactly what happened or what parts of both sides stories are true or not. They will eventually either settle or go to trial. More information will come out and even then we may still not know the truth. You are the one who seems to have made up your mind.

I have made up my mind that we don't want to face that Rose is possibly a gang rapist being that he is ours now and we have/had such high hopes for him.

I have made up my mind that rose is either extremely dumb or has committed an abominable act (even if not found guilty of gang rape).

I have made up my mind that fans will be biased and choose to ignore and/or assist in the most commonly used slut shaming defense. I think that you should go back and read your posts and see if its really not obvious to yourself where you lean.

Again, please read the Jason Concepcion article that I posted.

To play devils advocate we could accuse that you and others dislike for Rose, which has been on display since he was traded for. Has influenced your perception all the same as you believe fandom is protecting him. I personally have no attachment to D.Rose. I'm rooting for landing Chris Paul in the offseason. I view him currently as a one year rental until proven otherwise but even with a good season his injury history may not make it worth it.

Regardless from an *outside look* two things are in favor for Rose imo. The fact that she was looking for a financial compensation over criminal charges given the accusation. And the fact that he hasn't been willing to jump at a settlement trying to avoid criminal charges. I mean if Rose set up this woman to get gang raped and she is *offering* financial compensation to keep her mouth shut about it. Then if guilty wouldn't most jump on that? By not doing so he would be risking his career and freedom. While she was looking for compensation without risking her identity.

I agree with most of this post.

¿ △ ?
HofstraBBall
Posts: 22352
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Joined: 11/21/2015
Member: #6192

9/26/2016  4:42 PM
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:Looks like the UK faithful mostly don't believe her and say that she looks bad.

Maybe she looks bad especially with the slut shaming defense in full effect but DERRICK ROSE LOOKS PRETTY AWFUL TOO.

I think you're ignoring many of the obvious problems with how she went about handling this. It could be that Rose did do something wrong in this case but it doesn't help her case that she 1st tried to get money out of him. I think that there is enough evidence to cast doubt on her version of things as well.

Unfortunately that is often the case in a situation where there was an existing consensual relationship. It makes it harder to prosecute such a case. This isn't a simple case from what i've read so far. Until we see all of the evidence and testimony it's impossible to say for sure just what happened.

ok ... so you think that she has cast doubt on herself, got it. What do you think about him? What he did? How he looks? How this would look to you if you were not a big knick fan, and perhaps you were even a woman? Or a mother? Would you be singing the same tune?

Remember, it took 80 woman to bring down Bill Cosby. Why do you think that is/was?


The allegations against Rose sound bad. I'm merely stating the information from both sides, whereas you seem to keep focus on things from her side. If you RE READ what I wrote you may notice that i've never said anything about Rose being guilty or innocent of anything and i've also written my personal disgust for what is reported to have happened in other threads. However, i'm not in a position to say how much is true or false from either side. What I posted above was FACT, that nothing has changed. The investigation was ongoing but no charges had been made. Doe first filed the Civil Suit then later filed the Police Report.

you seem to continuously try to poke holes in her story. That is not a good look and I don't see you doing that with him. Not sure that you even see your own bias.

I don't know if it was full fledged gang rape because I have no idea how drunk she was and if it was too drunk to consent. I have read s lot about this grey area and it is very complicated.

No matter what, I think that what he did that we do know as fact is in itself abominable. Slut shaming her will not help that. Every one of these accusers get slut shamed which is probable why they are so underreported.

Please read this excellent article: https://theringer.com/derrick-rose-rape-case-and-nba-fandom-bfd92e771d61#.798oklr2d

This part really explains a lot about what is going on here on this board:

Sports are an escape from life’s quotidian problems, so it’s not surprising that fans react with vexation when those problems — representing the real world — intrude. We treat athletes as characters in a story. Market forces turn those characters into brands. When those athletes do something delightful and on-brand — J.R. Smith strutting around shirtless, for example — we’re only too eager to highlight it. When they do something outside of that box, we become annoyed — stick to sports! If they do something bad, more often than not we simply ignore it.

In your many world travels, have you ever met a money grubbing slut? Because they do exist. Not that it has been proven that this girl is one but stop being so naive to think they don't exist. Btw, There is a big difference in not agreeing with ones private lifestyle and saying that person is a rapist. You can't seem to see the difference and quick to do the latter. And again, we live in a country where you are innocent until proven guilty. Which is a good thing, as many years ago, people would be hanging the innocent based on personal beliefs and public opinion.

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
mreinman
Posts: 37827
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/14/2010
Member: #3189

9/26/2016  4:46 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Nalod wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:Looks like the UK faithful mostly don't believe her and say that she looks bad.

Maybe she looks bad especially with the slut shaming defense in full effect but DERRICK ROSE LOOKS PRETTY AWFUL TOO.

I think you're ignoring many of the obvious problems with how she went about handling this. It could be that Rose did do something wrong in this case but it doesn't help her case that she 1st tried to get money out of him. I think that there is enough evidence to cast doubt on her version of things as well.

Unfortunately that is often the case in a situation where there was an existing consensual relationship. It makes it harder to prosecute such a case. This isn't a simple case from what i've read so far. Until we see all of the evidence and testimony it's impossible to say for sure just what happened.

ok ... so you think that she has cast doubt on herself, got it. What do you think about him? What he did? How he looks? How this would look to you if you were not a big knick fan, and perhaps you were even a woman? Or a mother? Would you be singing the same tune?

Remember, it took 80 woman to bring down Bill Cosby. Why do you think that is/was?

Putting Qualudes in the Jello did take a very large sample but it took over 30 years as well.

While that is actually funny, I am not sure that its tasteful in this context ... still smiling though I am mad at myself for doing it.

The only reason the women's lawyers are pushing the letter about the criminal investigation, which there have been no charges filed, is because they lost the motion to keep her identity confidential. Which seems to be an obvious negative to their case, in their opinion. And I don't think its because she doesn't want her family to know. Probably because there will be droves of witnesses with unfavorable character testimony of her. But I love how she claims she did not know the difference between a civil suit and a criminal case? Lmao. The difference is about $21.5 million. And I am sure she knew that figure.

Do you know when that investigation got started? Is this all brand new to the LAPD? And, perhaps this actually does help the accuser keep her anonymity, if that is the case and like most rapist accusers who choose to not have their identity publicized, would this be the right move if you were her lawyer?

Did you read the data I posted about the percentage of rapes that are reported? It makes a lot of sense for her not wanting to file criminal charges and her not wanting him to go to jail.

I will post it again because its very relevant to your post:

Reporting Sexual Assault: Why
Survivors Often Don’t

Introduction

Not all survivors find it necessary to report sexual assault to the criminal justice system in order to move forward from
their experience. In fact, some feel that the criminal justice system re-victimizes them in its process. Some survivors
find that the services provided by a rape crisis and recovery center or similar provider are the only services they feel
comfortable pursuing.
While measuring rates of sexual violence can be difficult, there is no uncertainty in the national data that the majority
of sexual assaults are never reported to police.
It is believed that only 15.8 to 35 percent of all sexual assaults are reported to the police.
U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, M. Planty and L. Langton, “Female Victims of Sexual Violence, 1994-2010,” 2013; Wolitzky-Taylor et al, “Is
Reporting of Rape on the Rise? A Comparison of Women with Reported Versus Unreported Rape Experiences in the National Women’s StudyReplication,”
2010
A survivor’s relationship with the offender has a strong effect on the likelihood of reporting.
When an offender is an intimate partner or former intimate partner, only 25 percent of sexual assaults are
reported to the police.

• When an offender is a friend or acquaintance, only 18 to 40 percent of sexual assaults are reported.
• When an offender is a stranger, between 46 and 66 percent of sexual assaults are reported.
U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, T. Hart and C. Rennison, “Reporting Crime to the Police, 1992-2000,” 2003
Survivors cite the following reasons for not reporting a sexual assault:
Fear of reprisal
• Personal matter
• Reported to a different official
• Not important enough to respondent
• Belief that the police would not do anything to help
• Belief that the police could not do anything to help
• Did not want to get offender in trouble with law
• Did not want family to know
• Did not want others to know
• Not enough proof
• Fear of the justice system
• Did not know how
• Feel the crime was not “serious enough”
• Fear of lack of evidence
• Unsure about perpetrator’s intent

D. Kilpatrick et al., “Drug-facilitated, Incapacitated, and Forcible Rape: A National Study,” 2007; U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, M. Planty and L.
Langton, “Female Victims of Sexual Violence, 1994-2010,” 2013; Wolitzky-Taylor et al, “Is Reporting of Rape on the Rise? A Comparison of Women
with Reported Versus Unreported Rape Experiences in the National Women’s Study-Replication”, 2010
Due partially to low reporting rates, only 9 percent of all rapists get prosecuted. Only 5 percent of cases lead to a felony
conviction. Only 3 percent of rapists will spend a day in prison. The other 97 percent walk free.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
HofstraBBall
Posts: 22352
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Member: #6192

9/26/2016  4:53 PM
mreinman wrote:
crzymdups wrote:She's probably filing criminal charges now to make her civil trial case look better.

Honestly, it makes it look worse to me. Why wait so long to file criminal charges? Something about this case seems fishy as hell to me.

We don't know that she filed, and, she would like to keep her anonymity so if they are themselves pushing the criminal charges angle at this point, its because a judge ruled that she must disclose her identity for the civil trial. If this is a criminal case, she may get back her right to remain anonymous.

And as I posted, there are many reasons why she would of course want to remain anonymous and that is in no way an indication that she is not being truthful about her story. Remember, most never come forward for these very reasons.

Anonymity was thrown out when her lawyers went on a public rant to pressure Rose into settling. It backfired and the judge saw through the games and denied their motion to keep her anonymous. Anonymity is granted to victims of rape in a criminal trial. Advice her lawyers would have given her, except they didn't like it would not carry a $21.5 million prize. But what were the reasons she wants anonymity again? Will ruin her church involvement? Her family thought she was a nun? Her charity work will be ruined? Or maybe because every pro athlete has her on speed dial.

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
CrushAlot
Posts: 55242
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USA
9/26/2016  4:53 PM
crzymdups wrote:
mreinman wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
mreinman wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I read somewhere that Doe and her lawyers are pursuing a criminal case to try to pressure the judge not to release her identity. The pretrial motions that were ruled on on 9/23 didn't go that well for Doe. Her roommate will be allowed to testify for Rose and her identity will be revealed. The judge did rule that Rose could not bring Doe's social relationship with one of her attorneys into evidence. I posted it in the link to the motions in the off topic thread but I don't know how many people go there to read the thread. Again, the White Bronco Site is the closest thing to just presenting legal documents on the case that is out there.
http://thewhitebronco.com/2016/09/derrick-rose-lawsuit-update-friday-september-23-2016/

Didn't go that well for Doe was a bit misleading as well as only mentioning the things that did not go well for her. Even the one you mentioned that did go well for her (her alleged relationship with her attorney not being permissible) came across as a slut shaming tactic (though I am not claiming to know if this was your intent) ... so let me help out here and post the rulings (pros/cons for both sides):


The Judge Threatens Rose And His Legal Team

In the same Order, the Judge threatened to sanction Rose if he “continues to utilize language that shames and blames the victims of rape…” This isn’t the first time that he has scolding Rose’s lawyers. In an earlier order, after Rose argued that Doe should be forced to reveal her identity because she had social media posts that “are sexual in nature,” he wrote that Rose’s “rhetoric has no place in this Court.”

In a separate order released earlier this week, the Judge required Rose’s lead attorney Mark Baute to explain in writing to the court why he shouldn’t be sanctioned $1,000.00 for failing to use Doe’s pseudonym in open court.

Numerous Other Evidentiary Rulings

The parties filed 15 motions seeking to exclude evidence and witnesses (more on that here) and the judge ruled on many of them this week. Here are the highlights:

PDF of the Court’s Order
Rose can only use five (he wanted to use 34) photographs depicting Doe partying in Las Vegas weeks after the alleged assault.
Rose cannot introduce evidence regarding Doe’s “social relationship” with her attorney Brandon Anand.
For now, Rose cannot introduce evidence of Doe’s prior relationships and sexual predispositions. Rose sought to introduce evidence that Doe dated numerous other NBA players and had a tubal pregnancy during her last relationship before she met Rose. The Judge will revisit this issue during the next hearing on September 29th.
Rose can call Doe’s former roommate and coworker Keyana Lavergne. Ms. Lavergne recently filed a declaration that she cannot attend trial because she just moved to Miami, but Rose’s team plan on introducing her deposition testimony where she testified that Doe’s lawsuit is financially motivated.
Doe cannot introduce evidence that co-defendant Allen called escort services and sex workers.
Doe can testify that she felt drugged during the night of August 27, 2013.
The Judge scheduled an additional pretrial hearing for September 29th. Most of the key pretrial issues are settled, but a few evidentiary issues remaining including: whether Doe will be able to call a witness to testify about Rose’s SAT incident and the related NCAA investigation at the University of Memphis; whether Doe will be able to introduce video’s of her alleged PTSD symptoms (including acne); and, whether a few other witnesses will be allowed to testify.

In regards to the lawyer/Doe relationship the roommate has given testimony that they have gotten high together in front of her on at least 20 occasions, that Doe gets favors from the lawyer and that the lawyer seems to be fond of Doe. Nothing sexual but the actions certainly seem to be inappropriate. This is a nasty case. The lawyers for both sides do not appear to like or respect each other. You don't think the biggest ruling was that Doe's identity will be revealed? Also, the 'For Now' ruling about her sexual past seems to indicate that this could change.
I do prefer referencing trial documents as both sides have told different versions of what happened.

To me, the way the judge has treated this case pre-trial and the way the police have sort of non-chalantly said "we'll see where this goes" and haven't even forced Rose to come in for questioning... I mean... I agree that rapes and sexual assault are under reported and victims ought to be treated seriously... but Doe went for the money first and seems to have only gone to the police to protect her identity and to help her case. She went to the police two years after the incident... which is fine... but she went to Rose for hush money first and then filed a civil trial for $20M before pressing charges. Hushing sexual assault victims is serious business... but this really seems fishy as hell to me, and I thought so before Rose was ever a Knick. Extortion is also serious business and a crime. I hope justice is served in this case - and if I'm wrong I'll happily admit it. But even this girl's roommate seems to be against her in this case. I dunno. It seems fishy as all hell.

do any of his actions seem fishy to you during their relationship or on that night? Have your read through the court documents so that you fully understand all claims and the documentation?

Your take is probably how most knicks fans feel. Its much more split on non sports/non-knick sites and of course most women are probably all on the other side of the fence. The psychology of how everybody reacts to this is incredible.

Please please read this article (he is a knicks fan):

https://theringer.com/derrick-rose-rape-case-and-nba-fandom-bfd92e771d61#.798oklr2d

I am very familiar with Jason's work. And I read the court documents. But I am not in the court room and neither are you. And obviously no one else was there that night. I hope justice is served... but I am just saying that my gut reaction is that there is fishy stuff in this case. We'll see how it plays out.

This. I know he is a knick fan but he also has personal biases and is not going just on evidence and court documents (i.e. going with Doe's account from her press release versus going with documents on file in the case) which may be why her name is now going to be made public. Also, this article is from right after Doe went to the media ten days ago. More court documents and rulings are available and the judge has since ruled that her identity should be revealed. They go back to court on 9/29. It will be interesting to see what other motions are ruled on before the trial. I don't think Rose is settling this out of court. They have tried twice. I have read and heard some speculation that Doe's revealing her identity could push her towards seeking a settlement but I don't think Rose wants to give her anything.
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
mreinman
Posts: 37827
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Member: #3189

9/26/2016  4:54 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:Looks like the UK faithful mostly don't believe her and say that she looks bad.

Maybe she looks bad especially with the slut shaming defense in full effect but DERRICK ROSE LOOKS PRETTY AWFUL TOO.

I think you're ignoring many of the obvious problems with how she went about handling this. It could be that Rose did do something wrong in this case but it doesn't help her case that she 1st tried to get money out of him. I think that there is enough evidence to cast doubt on her version of things as well.

Unfortunately that is often the case in a situation where there was an existing consensual relationship. It makes it harder to prosecute such a case. This isn't a simple case from what i've read so far. Until we see all of the evidence and testimony it's impossible to say for sure just what happened.

ok ... so you think that she has cast doubt on herself, got it. What do you think about him? What he did? How he looks? How this would look to you if you were not a big knick fan, and perhaps you were even a woman? Or a mother? Would you be singing the same tune?

Remember, it took 80 woman to bring down Bill Cosby. Why do you think that is/was?


The allegations against Rose sound bad. I'm merely stating the information from both sides, whereas you seem to keep focus on things from her side. If you RE READ what I wrote you may notice that i've never said anything about Rose being guilty or innocent of anything and i've also written my personal disgust for what is reported to have happened in other threads. However, i'm not in a position to say how much is true or false from either side. What I posted above was FACT, that nothing has changed. The investigation was ongoing but no charges had been made. Doe first filed the Civil Suit then later filed the Police Report.

you seem to continuously try to poke holes in her story. That is not a good look and I don't see you doing that with him. Not sure that you even see your own bias.

I don't know if it was full fledged gang rape because I have no idea how drunk she was and if it was too drunk to consent. I have read s lot about this grey area and it is very complicated.

No matter what, I think that what he did that we do know as fact is in itself abominable. Slut shaming her will not help that. Every one of these accusers get slut shamed which is probable why they are so underreported.

Please read this excellent article: https://theringer.com/derrick-rose-rape-case-and-nba-fandom-bfd92e771d61#.798oklr2d

This part really explains a lot about what is going on here on this board:

Sports are an escape from life’s quotidian problems, so it’s not surprising that fans react with vexation when those problems — representing the real world — intrude. We treat athletes as characters in a story. Market forces turn those characters into brands. When those athletes do something delightful and on-brand — J.R. Smith strutting around shirtless, for example — we’re only too eager to highlight it. When they do something outside of that box, we become annoyed — stick to sports! If they do something bad, more often than not we simply ignore it.

In your many world travels, have you ever met a money grubbing slut? Because they do exist. Not that it has been proven that this girl is one but stop being so naive to think they don't exist. Btw, There is a big difference in not agreeing with ones private lifestyle and saying that person is a rapist. You can't seem to see the difference and quick to do the latter. And again, we live in a country where you are innocent until proven guilty. Which is a good thing, as many years ago, people would be hanging the innocent based on personal beliefs and public opinion.

Yes ... I am sure that there are "money grubbing sluts". Most are not but most who file civil rape charges are accused of this.

I never said that he raped her. I said that what he did was disgusting and he might at best being in a dark grey area of the law in regards to to what is consent (which he did not have any idea about) and what/who is considered clear minded enough to consent.

Many who are quick to defend Rose as knicks fans are quick to put words in my mouth they I never said or wrote.

Also, he may end up not being liable, however, going over to her house with your dudes to do your ex girl when she is slammed, while she again again refused this request is at best despicable/disgusting behavior.

Dunno ... maybe it just that she is a big time slut and she either wanted this finally or she gave of that ... you know ... vibe.

Or perhaps Rose is a gang raping man slut with no respect for women?? Who knows ... right? All possible scenarios.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
newyorknewyork
Posts: 27064
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Member: #541
9/26/2016  5:01 PM
mreinman wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:Looks like the UK faithful mostly don't believe her and say that she looks bad.

Maybe she looks bad especially with the slut shaming defense in full effect but DERRICK ROSE LOOKS PRETTY AWFUL TOO.

I think you're ignoring many of the obvious problems with how she went about handling this. It could be that Rose did do something wrong in this case but it doesn't help her case that she 1st tried to get money out of him. I think that there is enough evidence to cast doubt on her version of things as well.

Unfortunately that is often the case in a situation where there was an existing consensual relationship. It makes it harder to prosecute such a case. This isn't a simple case from what i've read so far. Until we see all of the evidence and testimony it's impossible to say for sure just what happened.

ok ... so you think that she has cast doubt on herself, got it. What do you think about him? What he did? How he looks? How this would look to you if you were not a big knick fan, and perhaps you were even a woman? Or a mother? Would you be singing the same tune?

Remember, it took 80 woman to bring down Bill Cosby. Why do you think that is/was?


The allegations against Rose sound bad. I'm merely stating the information from both sides, whereas you seem to keep focus on things from her side. If you RE READ what I wrote you may notice that i've never said anything about Rose being guilty or innocent of anything and i've also written my personal disgust for what is reported to have happened in other threads. However, i'm not in a position to say how much is true or false from either side. What I posted above was FACT, that nothing has changed. The investigation was ongoing but no charges had been made. Doe first filed the Civil Suit then later filed the Police Report.

you seem to continuously try to poke holes in her story. That is not a good look and I don't see you doing that with him. Not sure that you even see your own bias.

I don't know if it was full fledged gang rape because I have no idea how drunk she was and if it was too drunk to consent. I have read s lot about this grey area and it is very complicated.

No matter what, I think that what he did that we do know as fact is in itself abominable. Slut shaming her will not help that. Every one of these accusers get slut shamed which is probable why they are so underreported.

Please read this excellent article: https://theringer.com/derrick-rose-rape-case-and-nba-fandom-bfd92e771d61#.798oklr2d

This part really explains a lot about what is going on here on this board:

Sports are an escape from life’s quotidian problems, so it’s not surprising that fans react with vexation when those problems — representing the real world — intrude. We treat athletes as characters in a story. Market forces turn those characters into brands. When those athletes do something delightful and on-brand — J.R. Smith strutting around shirtless, for example — we’re only too eager to highlight it. When they do something outside of that box, we become annoyed — stick to sports! If they do something bad, more often than not we simply ignore it.

I'm not biased towards Rose. In fact I've stated over and over again how I feel about the Charges. What I haven't done is made up my mind as if I know exactly what happened or what parts of both sides stories are true or not. They will eventually either settle or go to trial. More information will come out and even then we may still not know the truth. You are the one who seems to have made up your mind.

I have made up my mind that we don't want to face that Rose is possibly a gang rapist being that he is ours now and we have/had such high hopes for him.

I have made up my mind that rose is either extremely dumb or has committed an abominable act (even if not found guilty of gang rape).

I have made up my mind that fans will be biased and choose to ignore and/or assist in the most commonly used slut shaming defense. I think that you should go back and read your posts and see if its really not obvious to yourself where you lean.

Again, please read the Jason Concepcion article that I posted.

To play devils advocate we could accuse that you and others dislike for Rose, which has been on display since he was traded for. Has influenced your perception all the same as you believe fandom is protecting him. I personally have no attachment to D.Rose. I'm rooting for landing Chris Paul in the offseason. I view him currently as a one year rental until proven otherwise but even with a good season his injury history may not make it worth it.

Regardless from an *outside look* two things are in favor for Rose imo. The fact that she was looking for a financial compensation over criminal charges given the accusation. And the fact that he hasn't been willing to jump at a settlement trying to avoid criminal charges. I mean if Rose set up this woman to get gang raped and she is *offering* financial compensation to keep her mouth shut about it. Then if guilty wouldn't most jump on that? By not doing so he would be risking his career and freedom. While she was looking for compensation without risking her identity.

I never hated Rose, I did not like the trade or his advanced stats. I never knew or was bothered by anything that he did personally.

By going after him or condemning him for this just because I did not care for the trade would be pretty sick. Who would put stupid sports ahead of something this serious?

Did you read all the data before you came to those 2 things being the only ones that bothered you on both sides?

She came after for him for money because she lost her job and she needed money desperately. Maybe it was a money grab or maybe she thought that he would take care of her and he didn't? There is so much to consider before coming to such an easy conclusion. We should all do much better due diligence before coming to uninformed conclusions.

The fact that Rose is not settling somehow is being viewed by some here as an indication of innocence. That premise makes zero sense to me. There are so many reasons for him to not settle this case yet nobody seems to be considering all of them.

I haven't come to a conclusion on anything. I will let the case play out for that. All I was saying is these things seem favorable to Rose imo. I'm not looking to protect him or claim his innocence. If it came out that Rose potentially raped or gang raped a woman and he settled already then I wouldn't view it favorably for him truthfully even if he was innocent. Just like Ben Rothlesberger of the Steelers. When Kobe caught his rape charge and it was said that the woman had intercourse with her boyfriend afterwards the same day or the next day or something like that. I viewed that favorably for Kobe.

mreinman
Posts: 37827
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/14/2010
Member: #3189

9/26/2016  5:04 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
mreinman wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
mreinman wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I read somewhere that Doe and her lawyers are pursuing a criminal case to try to pressure the judge not to release her identity. The pretrial motions that were ruled on on 9/23 didn't go that well for Doe. Her roommate will be allowed to testify for Rose and her identity will be revealed. The judge did rule that Rose could not bring Doe's social relationship with one of her attorneys into evidence. I posted it in the link to the motions in the off topic thread but I don't know how many people go there to read the thread. Again, the White Bronco Site is the closest thing to just presenting legal documents on the case that is out there.
http://thewhitebronco.com/2016/09/derrick-rose-lawsuit-update-friday-september-23-2016/

Didn't go that well for Doe was a bit misleading as well as only mentioning the things that did not go well for her. Even the one you mentioned that did go well for her (her alleged relationship with her attorney not being permissible) came across as a slut shaming tactic (though I am not claiming to know if this was your intent) ... so let me help out here and post the rulings (pros/cons for both sides):


The Judge Threatens Rose And His Legal Team

In the same Order, the Judge threatened to sanction Rose if he “continues to utilize language that shames and blames the victims of rape…” This isn’t the first time that he has scolding Rose’s lawyers. In an earlier order, after Rose argued that Doe should be forced to reveal her identity because she had social media posts that “are sexual in nature,” he wrote that Rose’s “rhetoric has no place in this Court.”

In a separate order released earlier this week, the Judge required Rose’s lead attorney Mark Baute to explain in writing to the court why he shouldn’t be sanctioned $1,000.00 for failing to use Doe’s pseudonym in open court.

Numerous Other Evidentiary Rulings

The parties filed 15 motions seeking to exclude evidence and witnesses (more on that here) and the judge ruled on many of them this week. Here are the highlights:

PDF of the Court’s Order
Rose can only use five (he wanted to use 34) photographs depicting Doe partying in Las Vegas weeks after the alleged assault.
Rose cannot introduce evidence regarding Doe’s “social relationship” with her attorney Brandon Anand.
For now, Rose cannot introduce evidence of Doe’s prior relationships and sexual predispositions. Rose sought to introduce evidence that Doe dated numerous other NBA players and had a tubal pregnancy during her last relationship before she met Rose. The Judge will revisit this issue during the next hearing on September 29th.
Rose can call Doe’s former roommate and coworker Keyana Lavergne. Ms. Lavergne recently filed a declaration that she cannot attend trial because she just moved to Miami, but Rose’s team plan on introducing her deposition testimony where she testified that Doe’s lawsuit is financially motivated.
Doe cannot introduce evidence that co-defendant Allen called escort services and sex workers.
Doe can testify that she felt drugged during the night of August 27, 2013.
The Judge scheduled an additional pretrial hearing for September 29th. Most of the key pretrial issues are settled, but a few evidentiary issues remaining including: whether Doe will be able to call a witness to testify about Rose’s SAT incident and the related NCAA investigation at the University of Memphis; whether Doe will be able to introduce video’s of her alleged PTSD symptoms (including acne); and, whether a few other witnesses will be allowed to testify.

In regards to the lawyer/Doe relationship the roommate has given testimony that they have gotten high together in front of her on at least 20 occasions, that Doe gets favors from the lawyer and that the lawyer seems to be fond of Doe. Nothing sexual but the actions certainly seem to be inappropriate. This is a nasty case. The lawyers for both sides do not appear to like or respect each other. You don't think the biggest ruling was that Doe's identity will be revealed? Also, the 'For Now' ruling about her sexual past seems to indicate that this could change.
I do prefer referencing trial documents as both sides have told different versions of what happened.

To me, the way the judge has treated this case pre-trial and the way the police have sort of non-chalantly said "we'll see where this goes" and haven't even forced Rose to come in for questioning... I mean... I agree that rapes and sexual assault are under reported and victims ought to be treated seriously... but Doe went for the money first and seems to have only gone to the police to protect her identity and to help her case. She went to the police two years after the incident... which is fine... but she went to Rose for hush money first and then filed a civil trial for $20M before pressing charges. Hushing sexual assault victims is serious business... but this really seems fishy as hell to me, and I thought so before Rose was ever a Knick. Extortion is also serious business and a crime. I hope justice is served in this case - and if I'm wrong I'll happily admit it. But even this girl's roommate seems to be against her in this case. I dunno. It seems fishy as all hell.

do any of his actions seem fishy to you during their relationship or on that night? Have your read through the court documents so that you fully understand all claims and the documentation?

Your take is probably how most knicks fans feel. Its much more split on non sports/non-knick sites and of course most women are probably all on the other side of the fence. The psychology of how everybody reacts to this is incredible.

Please please read this article (he is a knicks fan):

https://theringer.com/derrick-rose-rape-case-and-nba-fandom-bfd92e771d61#.798oklr2d

I am very familiar with Jason's work. And I read the court documents. But I am not in the court room and neither are you. And obviously no one else was there that night. I hope justice is served... but I am just saying that my gut reaction is that there is fishy stuff in this case. We'll see how it plays out.

This. I know he is a knick fan but he also has personal biases and is not going just on evidence and court documents (i.e. going with Doe's account from her press release versus going with documents on file in the case) which may be why her name is now going to be made public. Also, this article is from right after Doe went to the media ten days ago. More court documents and rulings are available and the judge has since ruled that her identity should be revealed. They go back to court on 9/29. It will be interesting to see what other motions are ruled on before the trial. I don't think Rose is settling this out of court. They have tried twice. I have read and heard some speculation that Doe's revealing her identity could push her towards seeking a settlement but I don't think Rose wants to give her anything.

I have no bias as a knick fan in this, that psyche are labeled on the ones that want to believe that everything is perfect (as Jason wrote).

I just get really annoyed that because of the silly knicks, the posters on this site are so much more slanted against here than in the real world. And, I don't think that it is done intentionally and that people don't care about RAPE. I think its just a sad psychological state of knicks fans that without even realizing it, have already chosen the side of our own PG cause he is ours. Like a relative.

Even on P&T under Seths article they much much more balanced and I think most people believe that he is a sleazball regardless of if she is a money grubbing slut or not.

As Jason states, lets choose to ignore this and just discuss basketball, BUT WE/HE can't. This is here and it is GONNA BE A DISTRACTION because a girl is alleging a gang rape took place and that cannot and should not be ignored.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
mreinman
Posts: 37827
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/14/2010
Member: #3189

9/26/2016  5:15 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
mreinman wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:Looks like the UK faithful mostly don't believe her and say that she looks bad.

Maybe she looks bad especially with the slut shaming defense in full effect but DERRICK ROSE LOOKS PRETTY AWFUL TOO.

I think you're ignoring many of the obvious problems with how she went about handling this. It could be that Rose did do something wrong in this case but it doesn't help her case that she 1st tried to get money out of him. I think that there is enough evidence to cast doubt on her version of things as well.

Unfortunately that is often the case in a situation where there was an existing consensual relationship. It makes it harder to prosecute such a case. This isn't a simple case from what i've read so far. Until we see all of the evidence and testimony it's impossible to say for sure just what happened.

ok ... so you think that she has cast doubt on herself, got it. What do you think about him? What he did? How he looks? How this would look to you if you were not a big knick fan, and perhaps you were even a woman? Or a mother? Would you be singing the same tune?

Remember, it took 80 woman to bring down Bill Cosby. Why do you think that is/was?


The allegations against Rose sound bad. I'm merely stating the information from both sides, whereas you seem to keep focus on things from her side. If you RE READ what I wrote you may notice that i've never said anything about Rose being guilty or innocent of anything and i've also written my personal disgust for what is reported to have happened in other threads. However, i'm not in a position to say how much is true or false from either side. What I posted above was FACT, that nothing has changed. The investigation was ongoing but no charges had been made. Doe first filed the Civil Suit then later filed the Police Report.

you seem to continuously try to poke holes in her story. That is not a good look and I don't see you doing that with him. Not sure that you even see your own bias.

I don't know if it was full fledged gang rape because I have no idea how drunk she was and if it was too drunk to consent. I have read s lot about this grey area and it is very complicated.

No matter what, I think that what he did that we do know as fact is in itself abominable. Slut shaming her will not help that. Every one of these accusers get slut shamed which is probable why they are so underreported.

Please read this excellent article: https://theringer.com/derrick-rose-rape-case-and-nba-fandom-bfd92e771d61#.798oklr2d

This part really explains a lot about what is going on here on this board:

Sports are an escape from life’s quotidian problems, so it’s not surprising that fans react with vexation when those problems — representing the real world — intrude. We treat athletes as characters in a story. Market forces turn those characters into brands. When those athletes do something delightful and on-brand — J.R. Smith strutting around shirtless, for example — we’re only too eager to highlight it. When they do something outside of that box, we become annoyed — stick to sports! If they do something bad, more often than not we simply ignore it.

I'm not biased towards Rose. In fact I've stated over and over again how I feel about the Charges. What I haven't done is made up my mind as if I know exactly what happened or what parts of both sides stories are true or not. They will eventually either settle or go to trial. More information will come out and even then we may still not know the truth. You are the one who seems to have made up your mind.

I have made up my mind that we don't want to face that Rose is possibly a gang rapist being that he is ours now and we have/had such high hopes for him.

I have made up my mind that rose is either extremely dumb or has committed an abominable act (even if not found guilty of gang rape).

I have made up my mind that fans will be biased and choose to ignore and/or assist in the most commonly used slut shaming defense. I think that you should go back and read your posts and see if its really not obvious to yourself where you lean.

Again, please read the Jason Concepcion article that I posted.

To play devils advocate we could accuse that you and others dislike for Rose, which has been on display since he was traded for. Has influenced your perception all the same as you believe fandom is protecting him. I personally have no attachment to D.Rose. I'm rooting for landing Chris Paul in the offseason. I view him currently as a one year rental until proven otherwise but even with a good season his injury history may not make it worth it.

Regardless from an *outside look* two things are in favor for Rose imo. The fact that she was looking for a financial compensation over criminal charges given the accusation. And the fact that he hasn't been willing to jump at a settlement trying to avoid criminal charges. I mean if Rose set up this woman to get gang raped and she is *offering* financial compensation to keep her mouth shut about it. Then if guilty wouldn't most jump on that? By not doing so he would be risking his career and freedom. While she was looking for compensation without risking her identity.

I never hated Rose, I did not like the trade or his advanced stats. I never knew or was bothered by anything that he did personally.

By going after him or condemning him for this just because I did not care for the trade would be pretty sick. Who would put stupid sports ahead of something this serious?

Did you read all the data before you came to those 2 things being the only ones that bothered you on both sides?

She came after for him for money because she lost her job and she needed money desperately. Maybe it was a money grab or maybe she thought that he would take care of her and he didn't? There is so much to consider before coming to such an easy conclusion. We should all do much better due diligence before coming to uninformed conclusions.

The fact that Rose is not settling somehow is being viewed by some here as an indication of innocence. That premise makes zero sense to me. There are so many reasons for him to not settle this case yet nobody seems to be considering all of them.

I haven't come to a conclusion on anything. I will let the case play out for that. All I was saying is these things seem favorable to Rose imo. I'm not looking to protect him or claim his innocence. If it came out that Rose potentially raped or gang raped a woman and he settled already then I wouldn't view it favorably for him truthfully even if he was innocent. Just like Ben Rothlesberger of the Steelers. When Kobe caught his rape charge and it was said that the woman had intercourse with her boyfriend afterwards the same day or the next day or something like that. I viewed that favorably for Kobe.

If he settles or not has no bearing on my conclusion of whether he is guilty or not. It has no bearing.

Also, I don't view that for Kobe because after doing lots of reading, one can't judge the psyche of a rape victim. They are a complete mess and of course it does not help that they have very little chance of getting anywhere with their claim. And the ones who make false claims certainly do not help the real victims.

Do you think that her saying no to group sex ad nauseum and then on the night in question, he goes over to her house with his boys while she is slammed, can't get in or reach her for about 45 minutes while standing outside, they somehow get in and do the drunk girl together? Something that is quite documented that she would not do? Something that may have caused her to lose derrick rose over her repeated denials of this request?

To me, what he did was beyond sick however, it comes down to did she and was she competent enough to (finally) give in. All the slut shaming or her screwing her sleazy lawyer or her being loose with other NBA players or posting facebook nudies ... all just slut shaming a defense that certainly works but what happened that we know smells FISHY to me even if most of the UKers are ok with that.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
mreinman
Posts: 37827
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9/26/2016  5:20 PM
And one day, Alleged Rape (especially by a Knick) will be just as on topic as Police shootings, Race, and our Presidential race.

As I posted from the article, it is expected that this will be brushed aside since he is on our team and we choose to ignore or not face it:

When they do something outside of that box, we become annoyed — stick to sports! If they do something bad, more often than not we simply ignore it.
so here is what phil is thinking ....
CrushAlot
Posts: 55242
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USA
9/26/2016  5:31 PM
mreinman wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
mreinman wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
mreinman wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I read somewhere that Doe and her lawyers are pursuing a criminal case to try to pressure the judge not to release her identity. The pretrial motions that were ruled on on 9/23 didn't go that well for Doe. Her roommate will be allowed to testify for Rose and her identity will be revealed. The judge did rule that Rose could not bring Doe's social relationship with one of her attorneys into evidence. I posted it in the link to the motions in the off topic thread but I don't know how many people go there to read the thread. Again, the White Bronco Site is the closest thing to just presenting legal documents on the case that is out there.
http://thewhitebronco.com/2016/09/derrick-rose-lawsuit-update-friday-september-23-2016/

Didn't go that well for Doe was a bit misleading as well as only mentioning the things that did not go well for her. Even the one you mentioned that did go well for her (her alleged relationship with her attorney not being permissible) came across as a slut shaming tactic (though I am not claiming to know if this was your intent) ... so let me help out here and post the rulings (pros/cons for both sides):


The Judge Threatens Rose And His Legal Team

In the same Order, the Judge threatened to sanction Rose if he “continues to utilize language that shames and blames the victims of rape…” This isn’t the first time that he has scolding Rose’s lawyers. In an earlier order, after Rose argued that Doe should be forced to reveal her identity because she had social media posts that “are sexual in nature,” he wrote that Rose’s “rhetoric has no place in this Court.”

In a separate order released earlier this week, the Judge required Rose’s lead attorney Mark Baute to explain in writing to the court why he shouldn’t be sanctioned $1,000.00 for failing to use Doe’s pseudonym in open court.

Numerous Other Evidentiary Rulings

The parties filed 15 motions seeking to exclude evidence and witnesses (more on that here) and the judge ruled on many of them this week. Here are the highlights:

PDF of the Court’s Order
Rose can only use five (he wanted to use 34) photographs depicting Doe partying in Las Vegas weeks after the alleged assault.
Rose cannot introduce evidence regarding Doe’s “social relationship” with her attorney Brandon Anand.
For now, Rose cannot introduce evidence of Doe’s prior relationships and sexual predispositions. Rose sought to introduce evidence that Doe dated numerous other NBA players and had a tubal pregnancy during her last relationship before she met Rose. The Judge will revisit this issue during the next hearing on September 29th.
Rose can call Doe’s former roommate and coworker Keyana Lavergne. Ms. Lavergne recently filed a declaration that she cannot attend trial because she just moved to Miami, but Rose’s team plan on introducing her deposition testimony where she testified that Doe’s lawsuit is financially motivated.
Doe cannot introduce evidence that co-defendant Allen called escort services and sex workers.
Doe can testify that she felt drugged during the night of August 27, 2013.
The Judge scheduled an additional pretrial hearing for September 29th. Most of the key pretrial issues are settled, but a few evidentiary issues remaining including: whether Doe will be able to call a witness to testify about Rose’s SAT incident and the related NCAA investigation at the University of Memphis; whether Doe will be able to introduce video’s of her alleged PTSD symptoms (including acne); and, whether a few other witnesses will be allowed to testify.

In regards to the lawyer/Doe relationship the roommate has given testimony that they have gotten high together in front of her on at least 20 occasions, that Doe gets favors from the lawyer and that the lawyer seems to be fond of Doe. Nothing sexual but the actions certainly seem to be inappropriate. This is a nasty case. The lawyers for both sides do not appear to like or respect each other. You don't think the biggest ruling was that Doe's identity will be revealed? Also, the 'For Now' ruling about her sexual past seems to indicate that this could change.
I do prefer referencing trial documents as both sides have told different versions of what happened.

To me, the way the judge has treated this case pre-trial and the way the police have sort of non-chalantly said "we'll see where this goes" and haven't even forced Rose to come in for questioning... I mean... I agree that rapes and sexual assault are under reported and victims ought to be treated seriously... but Doe went for the money first and seems to have only gone to the police to protect her identity and to help her case. She went to the police two years after the incident... which is fine... but she went to Rose for hush money first and then filed a civil trial for $20M before pressing charges. Hushing sexual assault victims is serious business... but this really seems fishy as hell to me, and I thought so before Rose was ever a Knick. Extortion is also serious business and a crime. I hope justice is served in this case - and if I'm wrong I'll happily admit it. But even this girl's roommate seems to be against her in this case. I dunno. It seems fishy as all hell.

do any of his actions seem fishy to you during their relationship or on that night? Have your read through the court documents so that you fully understand all claims and the documentation?

Your take is probably how most knicks fans feel. Its much more split on non sports/non-knick sites and of course most women are probably all on the other side of the fence. The psychology of how everybody reacts to this is incredible.

Please please read this article (he is a knicks fan):

https://theringer.com/derrick-rose-rape-case-and-nba-fandom-bfd92e771d61#.798oklr2d

I am very familiar with Jason's work. And I read the court documents. But I am not in the court room and neither are you. And obviously no one else was there that night. I hope justice is served... but I am just saying that my gut reaction is that there is fishy stuff in this case. We'll see how it plays out.

This. I know he is a knick fan but he also has personal biases and is not going just on evidence and court documents (i.e. going with Doe's account from her press release versus going with documents on file in the case) which may be why her name is now going to be made public. Also, this article is from right after Doe went to the media ten days ago. More court documents and rulings are available and the judge has since ruled that her identity should be revealed. They go back to court on 9/29. It will be interesting to see what other motions are ruled on before the trial. I don't think Rose is settling this out of court. They have tried twice. I have read and heard some speculation that Doe's revealing her identity could push her towards seeking a settlement but I don't think Rose wants to give her anything.

I have no bias as a knick fan in this, that psyche are labeled on the ones that want to believe that everything is perfect (as Jason wrote).

I just get really annoyed that because of the silly knicks, the posters on this site are so much more slanted against here than in the real world. And, I don't think that it is done intentionally and that people don't care about RAPE. I think its just a sad psychological state of knicks fans that without even realizing it, have already chosen the side of our own PG cause he is ours. Like a relative.

Even on P&T under Seths article they much much more balanced and I think most people believe that he is a sleazball regardless of if she is a money grubbing slut or not.

As Jason states, lets choose to ignore this and just discuss basketball, BUT WE/HE can't. This is here and it is GONNA BE A DISTRACTION because a girl is alleging a gang rape took place and that cannot and should not be ignored.

I don't know who you think is ignoring this. I am going to check as soon as I get home from work on 9/29 to see what rulings were made in the next pretrial hearing. There are some very disturbing things that Rose has said and admitted to but that does not constitute guilt. There are some very disturbing things out there about his accuser. The whole thing isn't pretty but the court will decide the outcome of this.
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
mreinman
Posts: 37827
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Joined: 7/14/2010
Member: #3189

9/26/2016  5:49 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
mreinman wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
mreinman wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
mreinman wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I read somewhere that Doe and her lawyers are pursuing a criminal case to try to pressure the judge not to release her identity. The pretrial motions that were ruled on on 9/23 didn't go that well for Doe. Her roommate will be allowed to testify for Rose and her identity will be revealed. The judge did rule that Rose could not bring Doe's social relationship with one of her attorneys into evidence. I posted it in the link to the motions in the off topic thread but I don't know how many people go there to read the thread. Again, the White Bronco Site is the closest thing to just presenting legal documents on the case that is out there.
http://thewhitebronco.com/2016/09/derrick-rose-lawsuit-update-friday-september-23-2016/

Didn't go that well for Doe was a bit misleading as well as only mentioning the things that did not go well for her. Even the one you mentioned that did go well for her (her alleged relationship with her attorney not being permissible) came across as a slut shaming tactic (though I am not claiming to know if this was your intent) ... so let me help out here and post the rulings (pros/cons for both sides):


The Judge Threatens Rose And His Legal Team

In the same Order, the Judge threatened to sanction Rose if he “continues to utilize language that shames and blames the victims of rape…” This isn’t the first time that he has scolding Rose’s lawyers. In an earlier order, after Rose argued that Doe should be forced to reveal her identity because she had social media posts that “are sexual in nature,” he wrote that Rose’s “rhetoric has no place in this Court.”

In a separate order released earlier this week, the Judge required Rose’s lead attorney Mark Baute to explain in writing to the court why he shouldn’t be sanctioned $1,000.00 for failing to use Doe’s pseudonym in open court.

Numerous Other Evidentiary Rulings

The parties filed 15 motions seeking to exclude evidence and witnesses (more on that here) and the judge ruled on many of them this week. Here are the highlights:

PDF of the Court’s Order
Rose can only use five (he wanted to use 34) photographs depicting Doe partying in Las Vegas weeks after the alleged assault.
Rose cannot introduce evidence regarding Doe’s “social relationship” with her attorney Brandon Anand.
For now, Rose cannot introduce evidence of Doe’s prior relationships and sexual predispositions. Rose sought to introduce evidence that Doe dated numerous other NBA players and had a tubal pregnancy during her last relationship before she met Rose. The Judge will revisit this issue during the next hearing on September 29th.
Rose can call Doe’s former roommate and coworker Keyana Lavergne. Ms. Lavergne recently filed a declaration that she cannot attend trial because she just moved to Miami, but Rose’s team plan on introducing her deposition testimony where she testified that Doe’s lawsuit is financially motivated.
Doe cannot introduce evidence that co-defendant Allen called escort services and sex workers.
Doe can testify that she felt drugged during the night of August 27, 2013.
The Judge scheduled an additional pretrial hearing for September 29th. Most of the key pretrial issues are settled, but a few evidentiary issues remaining including: whether Doe will be able to call a witness to testify about Rose’s SAT incident and the related NCAA investigation at the University of Memphis; whether Doe will be able to introduce video’s of her alleged PTSD symptoms (including acne); and, whether a few other witnesses will be allowed to testify.

In regards to the lawyer/Doe relationship the roommate has given testimony that they have gotten high together in front of her on at least 20 occasions, that Doe gets favors from the lawyer and that the lawyer seems to be fond of Doe. Nothing sexual but the actions certainly seem to be inappropriate. This is a nasty case. The lawyers for both sides do not appear to like or respect each other. You don't think the biggest ruling was that Doe's identity will be revealed? Also, the 'For Now' ruling about her sexual past seems to indicate that this could change.
I do prefer referencing trial documents as both sides have told different versions of what happened.

To me, the way the judge has treated this case pre-trial and the way the police have sort of non-chalantly said "we'll see where this goes" and haven't even forced Rose to come in for questioning... I mean... I agree that rapes and sexual assault are under reported and victims ought to be treated seriously... but Doe went for the money first and seems to have only gone to the police to protect her identity and to help her case. She went to the police two years after the incident... which is fine... but she went to Rose for hush money first and then filed a civil trial for $20M before pressing charges. Hushing sexual assault victims is serious business... but this really seems fishy as hell to me, and I thought so before Rose was ever a Knick. Extortion is also serious business and a crime. I hope justice is served in this case - and if I'm wrong I'll happily admit it. But even this girl's roommate seems to be against her in this case. I dunno. It seems fishy as all hell.

do any of his actions seem fishy to you during their relationship or on that night? Have your read through the court documents so that you fully understand all claims and the documentation?

Your take is probably how most knicks fans feel. Its much more split on non sports/non-knick sites and of course most women are probably all on the other side of the fence. The psychology of how everybody reacts to this is incredible.

Please please read this article (he is a knicks fan):

https://theringer.com/derrick-rose-rape-case-and-nba-fandom-bfd92e771d61#.798oklr2d

I am very familiar with Jason's work. And I read the court documents. But I am not in the court room and neither are you. And obviously no one else was there that night. I hope justice is served... but I am just saying that my gut reaction is that there is fishy stuff in this case. We'll see how it plays out.

This. I know he is a knick fan but he also has personal biases and is not going just on evidence and court documents (i.e. going with Doe's account from her press release versus going with documents on file in the case) which may be why her name is now going to be made public. Also, this article is from right after Doe went to the media ten days ago. More court documents and rulings are available and the judge has since ruled that her identity should be revealed. They go back to court on 9/29. It will be interesting to see what other motions are ruled on before the trial. I don't think Rose is settling this out of court. They have tried twice. I have read and heard some speculation that Doe's revealing her identity could push her towards seeking a settlement but I don't think Rose wants to give her anything.

I have no bias as a knick fan in this, that psyche are labeled on the ones that want to believe that everything is perfect (as Jason wrote).

I just get really annoyed that because of the silly knicks, the posters on this site are so much more slanted against here than in the real world. And, I don't think that it is done intentionally and that people don't care about RAPE. I think its just a sad psychological state of knicks fans that without even realizing it, have already chosen the side of our own PG cause he is ours. Like a relative.

Even on P&T under Seths article they much much more balanced and I think most people believe that he is a sleazball regardless of if she is a money grubbing slut or not.

As Jason states, lets choose to ignore this and just discuss basketball, BUT WE/HE can't. This is here and it is GONNA BE A DISTRACTION because a girl is alleging a gang rape took place and that cannot and should not be ignored.

I don't know who you think is ignoring this. I am going to check as soon as I get home from work on 9/29 to see what rulings were made in the next pretrial hearing. There are some very disturbing things that Rose has said and admitted to but that does not constitute guilt. There are some very disturbing things out there about his accuser. The whole thing isn't pretty but the court will decide the outcome of this.

I know that you are following these closely as well, and as you said, nobody really reads anything in off topic so its a good place to send something if you want it to go dormant

so here is what phil is thinking ....
HofstraBBall
Posts: 22352
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9/26/2016  6:42 PM
mreinman wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Nalod wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:Looks like the UK faithful mostly don't believe her and say that she looks bad.

Maybe she looks bad especially with the slut shaming defense in full effect but DERRICK ROSE LOOKS PRETTY AWFUL TOO.

I think you're ignoring many of the obvious problems with how she went about handling this. It could be that Rose did do something wrong in this case but it doesn't help her case that she 1st tried to get money out of him. I think that there is enough evidence to cast doubt on her version of things as well.

Unfortunately that is often the case in a situation where there was an existing consensual relationship. It makes it harder to prosecute such a case. This isn't a simple case from what i've read so far. Until we see all of the evidence and testimony it's impossible to say for sure just what happened.

ok ... so you think that she has cast doubt on herself, got it. What do you think about him? What he did? How he looks? How this would look to you if you were not a big knick fan, and perhaps you were even a woman? Or a mother? Would you be singing the same tune?

Remember, it took 80 woman to bring down Bill Cosby. Why do you think that is/was?

Putting Qualudes in the Jello did take a very large sample but it took over 30 years as well.

While that is actually funny, I am not sure that its tasteful in this context ... still smiling though I am mad at myself for doing it.

The only reason the women's lawyers are pushing the letter about the criminal investigation, which there have been no charges filed, is because they lost the motion to keep her identity confidential. Which seems to be an obvious negative to their case, in their opinion. And I don't think its because she doesn't want her family to know. Probably because there will be droves of witnesses with unfavorable character testimony of her. But I love how she claims she did not know the difference between a civil suit and a criminal case? Lmao. The difference is about $21.5 million. And I am sure she knew that figure.

Do you know when that investigation got started? Is this all brand new to the LAPD? And, perhaps this actually does help the accuser keep her anonymity, if that is the case and like most rapist accusers who choose to not have their identity publicized, would this be the right move if you were her lawyer?

Did you read the data I posted about the percentage of rapes that are reported? It makes a lot of sense for her not wanting to file criminal charges and her not wanting him to go to jail.

I will post it again because its very relevant to your post:

Reporting Sexual Assault: Why
Survivors Often Don’t

Introduction

Not all survivors find it necessary to report sexual assault to the criminal justice system in order to move forward from
their experience. In fact, some feel that the criminal justice system re-victimizes them in its process. Some survivors
find that the services provided by a rape crisis and recovery center or similar provider are the only services they feel
comfortable pursuing.
While measuring rates of sexual violence can be difficult, there is no uncertainty in the national data that the majority
of sexual assaults are never reported to police.
It is believed that only 15.8 to 35 percent of all sexual assaults are reported to the police.
U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, M. Planty and L. Langton, “Female Victims of Sexual Violence, 1994-2010,” 2013; Wolitzky-Taylor et al, “Is
Reporting of Rape on the Rise? A Comparison of Women with Reported Versus Unreported Rape Experiences in the National Women’s StudyReplication,”
2010
A survivor’s relationship with the offender has a strong effect on the likelihood of reporting.
When an offender is an intimate partner or former intimate partner, only 25 percent of sexual assaults are
reported to the police.

• When an offender is a friend or acquaintance, only 18 to 40 percent of sexual assaults are reported.
• When an offender is a stranger, between 46 and 66 percent of sexual assaults are reported.
U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, T. Hart and C. Rennison, “Reporting Crime to the Police, 1992-2000,” 2003
Survivors cite the following reasons for not reporting a sexual assault:
Fear of reprisal
• Personal matter
• Reported to a different official
• Not important enough to respondent
• Belief that the police would not do anything to help
• Belief that the police could not do anything to help
• Did not want to get offender in trouble with law
• Did not want family to know
• Did not want others to know
• Not enough proof
• Fear of the justice system
• Did not know how
• Feel the crime was not “serious enough”
• Fear of lack of evidence
• Unsure about perpetrator’s intent

D. Kilpatrick et al., “Drug-facilitated, Incapacitated, and Forcible Rape: A National Study,” 2007; U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, M. Planty and L.
Langton, “Female Victims of Sexual Violence, 1994-2010,” 2013; Wolitzky-Taylor et al, “Is Reporting of Rape on the Rise? A Comparison of Women
with Reported Versus Unreported Rape Experiences in the National Women’s Study-Replication”, 2010
Due partially to low reporting rates, only 9 percent of all rapists get prosecuted. Only 5 percent of cases lead to a felony
conviction. Only 3 percent of rapists will spend a day in prison. The other 97 percent walk free.

All good reasons why someone would not press charges. But these are all reasons why women "NEVER" come out and actually charge someone. Including a civil charge? Or does $21.5 million take away all these fears?

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
HofstraBBall
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9/26/2016  6:52 PM
mreinman wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:Looks like the UK faithful mostly don't believe her and say that she looks bad.

Maybe she looks bad especially with the slut shaming defense in full effect but DERRICK ROSE LOOKS PRETTY AWFUL TOO.

I think you're ignoring many of the obvious problems with how she went about handling this. It could be that Rose did do something wrong in this case but it doesn't help her case that she 1st tried to get money out of him. I think that there is enough evidence to cast doubt on her version of things as well.

Unfortunately that is often the case in a situation where there was an existing consensual relationship. It makes it harder to prosecute such a case. This isn't a simple case from what i've read so far. Until we see all of the evidence and testimony it's impossible to say for sure just what happened.

ok ... so you think that she has cast doubt on herself, got it. What do you think about him? What he did? How he looks? How this would look to you if you were not a big knick fan, and perhaps you were even a woman? Or a mother? Would you be singing the same tune?

Remember, it took 80 woman to bring down Bill Cosby. Why do you think that is/was?


The allegations against Rose sound bad. I'm merely stating the information from both sides, whereas you seem to keep focus on things from her side. If you RE READ what I wrote you may notice that i've never said anything about Rose being guilty or innocent of anything and i've also written my personal disgust for what is reported to have happened in other threads. However, i'm not in a position to say how much is true or false from either side. What I posted above was FACT, that nothing has changed. The investigation was ongoing but no charges had been made. Doe first filed the Civil Suit then later filed the Police Report.

you seem to continuously try to poke holes in her story. That is not a good look and I don't see you doing that with him. Not sure that you even see your own bias.

I don't know if it was full fledged gang rape because I have no idea how drunk she was and if it was too drunk to consent. I have read s lot about this grey area and it is very complicated.

No matter what, I think that what he did that we do know as fact is in itself abominable. Slut shaming her will not help that. Every one of these accusers get slut shamed which is probable why they are so underreported.

Please read this excellent article: https://theringer.com/derrick-rose-rape-case-and-nba-fandom-bfd92e771d61#.798oklr2d

This part really explains a lot about what is going on here on this board:

Sports are an escape from life’s quotidian problems, so it’s not surprising that fans react with vexation when those problems — representing the real world — intrude. We treat athletes as characters in a story. Market forces turn those characters into brands. When those athletes do something delightful and on-brand — J.R. Smith strutting around shirtless, for example — we’re only too eager to highlight it. When they do something outside of that box, we become annoyed — stick to sports! If they do something bad, more often than not we simply ignore it.

In your many world travels, have you ever met a money grubbing slut? Because they do exist. Not that it has been proven that this girl is one but stop being so naive to think they don't exist. Btw, There is a big difference in not agreeing with ones private lifestyle and saying that person is a rapist. You can't seem to see the difference and quick to do the latter. And again, we live in a country where you are innocent until proven guilty. Which is a good thing, as many years ago, people would be hanging the innocent based on personal beliefs and public opinion.

Yes ... I am sure that there are "money grubbing sluts". Most are not but most who file civil rape charges are accused of this.

I never said that he raped her. I said that what he did was disgusting and he might at best being in a dark grey area of the law in regards to to what is consent (which he did not have any idea about) and what/who is considered clear minded enough to consent.

Many who are quick to defend Rose as knicks fans are quick to put words in my mouth they I never said or wrote.

Also, he may end up not being liable, however, going over to her house with your dudes to do your ex girl when she is slammed, while she again again refused this request is at best despicable/disgusting behavior.

Dunno ... maybe it just that she is a big time slut and she either wanted this finally or she gave of that ... you know ... vibe.

Or perhaps Rose is a gang raping man slut with no respect for women?? Who knows ... right? All possible scenarios.

True that most women that brimg charges of rape are often accused of being too provocative or loose. But we have to treat every case separately. And in this case, her texts are not helping. We also have to keep in mind, most false accusations are money driven. And for the record, I am not defending his actions but rather his right to his day in court and his innocence of her charges until proven guilty.

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
mreinman
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9/27/2016  1:28 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
mreinman wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:Looks like the UK faithful mostly don't believe her and say that she looks bad.

Maybe she looks bad especially with the slut shaming defense in full effect but DERRICK ROSE LOOKS PRETTY AWFUL TOO.

I think you're ignoring many of the obvious problems with how she went about handling this. It could be that Rose did do something wrong in this case but it doesn't help her case that she 1st tried to get money out of him. I think that there is enough evidence to cast doubt on her version of things as well.

Unfortunately that is often the case in a situation where there was an existing consensual relationship. It makes it harder to prosecute such a case. This isn't a simple case from what i've read so far. Until we see all of the evidence and testimony it's impossible to say for sure just what happened.

ok ... so you think that she has cast doubt on herself, got it. What do you think about him? What he did? How he looks? How this would look to you if you were not a big knick fan, and perhaps you were even a woman? Or a mother? Would you be singing the same tune?

Remember, it took 80 woman to bring down Bill Cosby. Why do you think that is/was?


The allegations against Rose sound bad. I'm merely stating the information from both sides, whereas you seem to keep focus on things from her side. If you RE READ what I wrote you may notice that i've never said anything about Rose being guilty or innocent of anything and i've also written my personal disgust for what is reported to have happened in other threads. However, i'm not in a position to say how much is true or false from either side. What I posted above was FACT, that nothing has changed. The investigation was ongoing but no charges had been made. Doe first filed the Civil Suit then later filed the Police Report.

you seem to continuously try to poke holes in her story. That is not a good look and I don't see you doing that with him. Not sure that you even see your own bias.

I don't know if it was full fledged gang rape because I have no idea how drunk she was and if it was too drunk to consent. I have read s lot about this grey area and it is very complicated.

No matter what, I think that what he did that we do know as fact is in itself abominable. Slut shaming her will not help that. Every one of these accusers get slut shamed which is probable why they are so underreported.

Please read this excellent article: https://theringer.com/derrick-rose-rape-case-and-nba-fandom-bfd92e771d61#.798oklr2d

This part really explains a lot about what is going on here on this board:

Sports are an escape from life’s quotidian problems, so it’s not surprising that fans react with vexation when those problems — representing the real world — intrude. We treat athletes as characters in a story. Market forces turn those characters into brands. When those athletes do something delightful and on-brand — J.R. Smith strutting around shirtless, for example — we’re only too eager to highlight it. When they do something outside of that box, we become annoyed — stick to sports! If they do something bad, more often than not we simply ignore it.

In your many world travels, have you ever met a money grubbing slut? Because they do exist. Not that it has been proven that this girl is one but stop being so naive to think they don't exist. Btw, There is a big difference in not agreeing with ones private lifestyle and saying that person is a rapist. You can't seem to see the difference and quick to do the latter. And again, we live in a country where you are innocent until proven guilty. Which is a good thing, as many years ago, people would be hanging the innocent based on personal beliefs and public opinion.

Yes ... I am sure that there are "money grubbing sluts". Most are not but most who file civil rape charges are accused of this.

I never said that he raped her. I said that what he did was disgusting and he might at best being in a dark grey area of the law in regards to to what is consent (which he did not have any idea about) and what/who is considered clear minded enough to consent.

Many who are quick to defend Rose as knicks fans are quick to put words in my mouth they I never said or wrote.

Also, he may end up not being liable, however, going over to her house with your dudes to do your ex girl when she is slammed, while she again again refused this request is at best despicable/disgusting behavior.

Dunno ... maybe it just that she is a big time slut and she either wanted this finally or she gave of that ... you know ... vibe.

Or perhaps Rose is a gang raping man slut with no respect for women?? Who knows ... right? All possible scenarios.

True that most women that brimg charges of rape are often accused of being too provocative or loose. But we have to treat every case separately. And in this case, her texts are not helping. We also have to keep in mind, most false accusations are money driven. And for the record, I am not defending his actions but rather his right to his day in court and his innocence of her charges until proven guilty.

Innocent of what? Even if he is found not guilty, how about getting a slammed drunk girl to consent to having sex with you and your boys while a this same girl when clear headed, refused again and again and again to have 3 guys bang her?

How come you never mention this? Does it not bother you are cause you to question him and/or his actions?

so here is what phil is thinking ....
newyorknewyork
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9/27/2016  6:22 AM    LAST EDITED: 9/27/2016  6:27 AM
Reviewing the case something will have to give though. Rose and his defendants are stating how they had consensual sex in Rose's home before she left. With details on how she was willing to have sex one by one with different partners while using a dildo on herself. And that after she left they were looking for her to come back to Rose's house to have more intercourse. Rose wanted his guy to pick her up and bring her back to the house. She wanted Rose to come with him which lead to the event at the house which details are unclear on how they entered her house. From Rose's defendants side. The victim opened the door for them. While from the victims side she isn't clear how they entered her house.

Things like if they had sex in Roses house first, and who opened the door for the them to enter is critical information. As if they had sex in Rose's house then the victims key witness would have been present. And if that didn't happen then that would destroy Rose's whole case.

One of the victims witnesses has claimed that she had to get the victim out of Roses house and back to her home because she was afraid that they would take advantage of her. One of the defendants is also claiming that he had sex with the victim the day prior to the party as well.

The text messages for when she said that Rose's boy is turning around to pick Rose up to come with him slightly overlaps with the unanswered phone calls from Rose to the woman. Her last 2 text were at 2:03 and 2:09. Which were around the first 2 unanswered calls at 2:05 and 2:12. He texted "we are on our way" at 2:17. At 2:50 he texted "we outside". The span of multiple missed calls from "we outside" is 3 minutes.

L.A. police investigating complaint against Knicks guard Derrick Rose

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