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L.A. police investigating complaint against Knicks guard Derrick Rose
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mreinman
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9/26/2016  3:06 PM
Nalod wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:Looks like the UK faithful mostly don't believe her and say that she looks bad.

Maybe she looks bad especially with the slut shaming defense in full effect but DERRICK ROSE LOOKS PRETTY AWFUL TOO.

I think you're ignoring many of the obvious problems with how she went about handling this. It could be that Rose did do something wrong in this case but it doesn't help her case that she 1st tried to get money out of him. I think that there is enough evidence to cast doubt on her version of things as well.

Unfortunately that is often the case in a situation where there was an existing consensual relationship. It makes it harder to prosecute such a case. This isn't a simple case from what i've read so far. Until we see all of the evidence and testimony it's impossible to say for sure just what happened.

ok ... so you think that she has cast doubt on herself, got it. What do you think about him? What he did? How he looks? How this would look to you if you were not a big knick fan, and perhaps you were even a woman? Or a mother? Would you be singing the same tune?

Remember, it took 80 woman to bring down Bill Cosby. Why do you think that is/was?

Putting Qualudes in the Jello did take a very large sample but it took over 30 years as well.

While that is actually funny, I am not sure that its tasteful in this context ... still smiling though I am mad at myself for doing it.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
AUTOADVERT
mreinman
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9/26/2016  3:08 PM
Reporting Sexual Assault: Why
Survivors Often Don’t

Introduction

Not all survivors find it necessary to report sexual assault to the criminal justice system in order to move forward from
their experience. In fact, some feel that the criminal justice system re-victimizes them in its process. Some survivors
find that the services provided by a rape crisis and recovery center or similar provider are the only services they feel
comfortable pursuing.
While measuring rates of sexual violence can be difficult, there is no uncertainty in the national data that the majority
of sexual assaults are never reported to police.
It is believed that only 15.8 to 35 percent of all sexual assaults are reported to the police.
U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, M. Planty and L. Langton, “Female Victims of Sexual Violence, 1994-2010,” 2013; Wolitzky-Taylor et al, “Is
Reporting of Rape on the Rise? A Comparison of Women with Reported Versus Unreported Rape Experiences in the National Women’s StudyReplication,”
2010

A survivor’s relationship with the offender has a strong effect on the likelihood of reporting.
When an offender is an intimate partner or former intimate partner, only 25 percent of sexual assaults are
reported to the police.

• When an offender is a friend or acquaintance, only 18 to 40 percent of sexual assaults are reported.
• When an offender is a stranger, between 46 and 66 percent of sexual assaults are reported.
U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, T. Hart and C. Rennison, “Reporting Crime to the Police, 1992-2000,” 2003
Survivors cite the following reasons for not reporting a sexual assault:
• Fear of reprisal
• Personal matter
• Reported to a different official
• Not important enough to respondent
• Belief that the police would not do anything to help
• Belief that the police could not do anything to help
• Did not want to get offender in trouble with law
• Did not want family to know
• Did not want others to know
• Not enough proof
• Fear of the justice system
• Did not know how
• Feel the crime was not “serious enough”
• Fear of lack of evidence
• Unsure about perpetrator’s intent

D. Kilpatrick et al., “Drug-facilitated, Incapacitated, and Forcible Rape: A National Study,” 2007; U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, M. Planty and L.
Langton, “Female Victims of Sexual Violence, 1994-2010,” 2013; Wolitzky-Taylor et al, “Is Reporting of Rape on the Rise? A Comparison of Women
with Reported Versus Unreported Rape Experiences in the National Women’s Study-Replication”, 2010

Due partially to low reporting rates, only 9 percent of all rapists get prosecuted. Only 5 percent of cases lead to a felony
conviction. Only 3 percent of rapists will spend a day in prison. The other 97 percent walk free.

Probability Statistics Calculated By the Rape Abuse and Incest National Network, “Reporting Rates,” 2013

so here is what phil is thinking ....
nixluva
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9/26/2016  3:11 PM
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:Looks like the UK faithful mostly don't believe her and say that she looks bad.

Maybe she looks bad especially with the slut shaming defense in full effect but DERRICK ROSE LOOKS PRETTY AWFUL TOO.

I think you're ignoring many of the obvious problems with how she went about handling this. It could be that Rose did do something wrong in this case but it doesn't help her case that she 1st tried to get money out of him. I think that there is enough evidence to cast doubt on her version of things as well.

Unfortunately that is often the case in a situation where there was an existing consensual relationship. It makes it harder to prosecute such a case. This isn't a simple case from what i've read so far. Until we see all of the evidence and testimony it's impossible to say for sure just what happened.

ok ... so you think that she has cast doubt on herself, got it. What do you think about him? What he did? How he looks? How this would look to you if you were not a big knick fan, and perhaps you were even a woman? Or a mother? Would you be singing the same tune?

Remember, it took 80 woman to bring down Bill Cosby. Why do you think that is/was?


The allegations against Rose sound bad. I'm merely stating the information from both sides, whereas you seem to keep focus on things from her side. If you RE READ what I wrote you may notice that i've never said anything about Rose being guilty or innocent of anything and i've also written my personal disgust for what is reported to have happened in other threads. However, i'm not in a position to say how much is true or false from either side. What I posted above was FACT, that nothing has changed. The investigation was ongoing but no charges had been made. Doe first filed the Civil Suit then later filed the Police Report.
mreinman
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9/26/2016  3:23 PM
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:Looks like the UK faithful mostly don't believe her and say that she looks bad.

Maybe she looks bad especially with the slut shaming defense in full effect but DERRICK ROSE LOOKS PRETTY AWFUL TOO.

I think you're ignoring many of the obvious problems with how she went about handling this. It could be that Rose did do something wrong in this case but it doesn't help her case that she 1st tried to get money out of him. I think that there is enough evidence to cast doubt on her version of things as well.

Unfortunately that is often the case in a situation where there was an existing consensual relationship. It makes it harder to prosecute such a case. This isn't a simple case from what i've read so far. Until we see all of the evidence and testimony it's impossible to say for sure just what happened.

ok ... so you think that she has cast doubt on herself, got it. What do you think about him? What he did? How he looks? How this would look to you if you were not a big knick fan, and perhaps you were even a woman? Or a mother? Would you be singing the same tune?

Remember, it took 80 woman to bring down Bill Cosby. Why do you think that is/was?


The allegations against Rose sound bad. I'm merely stating the information from both sides, whereas you seem to keep focus on things from her side. If you RE READ what I wrote you may notice that i've never said anything about Rose being guilty or innocent of anything and i've also written my personal disgust for what is reported to have happened in other threads. However, i'm not in a position to say how much is true or false from either side. What I posted above was FACT, that nothing has changed. The investigation was ongoing but no charges had been made. Doe first filed the Civil Suit then later filed the Police Report.

you seem to continuously try to poke holes in her story. That is not a good look and I don't see you doing that with him. Not sure that you even see your own bias.

I don't know if it was full fledged gang rape because I have no idea how drunk she was and if it was too drunk to consent. I have read s lot about this grey area and it is very complicated.

No matter what, I think that what he did that we do know as fact is in itself abominable. Slut shaming her will not help that. Every one of these accusers get slut shamed which is probable why they are so underreported.

Please read this excellent article: https://theringer.com/derrick-rose-rape-case-and-nba-fandom-bfd92e771d61#.798oklr2d

This part really explains a lot about what is going on here on this board:

Sports are an escape from life’s quotidian problems, so it’s not surprising that fans react with vexation when those problems — representing the real world — intrude. We treat athletes as characters in a story. Market forces turn those characters into brands. When those athletes do something delightful and on-brand — J.R. Smith strutting around shirtless, for example — we’re only too eager to highlight it. When they do something outside of that box, we become annoyed — stick to sports! If they do something bad, more often than not we simply ignore it.
so here is what phil is thinking ....
mreinman
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9/26/2016  3:36 PM
crzymdups wrote:She's probably filing criminal charges now to make her civil trial case look better.

Honestly, it makes it look worse to me. Why wait so long to file criminal charges? Something about this case seems fishy as hell to me.

We don't know that she filed, and, she would like to keep her anonymity so if they are themselves pushing the criminal charges angle at this point, its because a judge ruled that she must disclose her identity for the civil trial. If this is a criminal case, she may get back her right to remain anonymous.

And as I posted, there are many reasons why she would of course want to remain anonymous and that is in no way an indication that she is not being truthful about her story. Remember, most never come forward for these very reasons.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
mreinman
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9/26/2016  3:39 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:The story seems all off to me. First she wanted to get picked up for work. Then she was passed out when they got there because she may have been drunk already. Then they entered without her permission and slipped something in her drink even though she was already passed out?

I suggest that you read the full details to get a better understanding of her story.

https://thinkprogress.org/derrick-rose-rape-case-2182c16b55e2#.us3qvzxzt

so here is what phil is thinking ....
mreinman
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9/26/2016  3:42 PM
crzymdups wrote:
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:She's probably filing criminal charges now to make her civil trial case look better.

Honestly, it makes it look worse to me. Why wait so long to file criminal charges? Something about this case seems fishy as hell to me.


Although it doesn't really change the facts of whether Rose is guilty of what she claims or not, the fact that she 1st tried to reach a settlement, then filed the Civil Suit and then later filed the Police report doesn't help her look good in this. That order of actions makes her look like she was more concerned with money than actually getting justice for a rape. The filing of the Police Report looks like a pressure tactic. She could always decide not to Drop the charges if they reached a settlement.

True.

The other part of this case that seems fishy is that the civil trial judge said she couldn't be anonymous. That to me strikes me as weird... unless the judge sort of doubted her story.

first, its not weird to request to remain anonymous, its what most rape victims/accusers choose, and second, proposing that the judge required her to be identified for the civil trial means that the judge doubted her story is quite silly and borderline ignorant. I suggest that your research that.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
nixluva
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9/26/2016  3:44 PM
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:Looks like the UK faithful mostly don't believe her and say that she looks bad.

Maybe she looks bad especially with the slut shaming defense in full effect but DERRICK ROSE LOOKS PRETTY AWFUL TOO.

I think you're ignoring many of the obvious problems with how she went about handling this. It could be that Rose did do something wrong in this case but it doesn't help her case that she 1st tried to get money out of him. I think that there is enough evidence to cast doubt on her version of things as well.

Unfortunately that is often the case in a situation where there was an existing consensual relationship. It makes it harder to prosecute such a case. This isn't a simple case from what i've read so far. Until we see all of the evidence and testimony it's impossible to say for sure just what happened.

ok ... so you think that she has cast doubt on herself, got it. What do you think about him? What he did? How he looks? How this would look to you if you were not a big knick fan, and perhaps you were even a woman? Or a mother? Would you be singing the same tune?

Remember, it took 80 woman to bring down Bill Cosby. Why do you think that is/was?


The allegations against Rose sound bad. I'm merely stating the information from both sides, whereas you seem to keep focus on things from her side. If you RE READ what I wrote you may notice that i've never said anything about Rose being guilty or innocent of anything and i've also written my personal disgust for what is reported to have happened in other threads. However, i'm not in a position to say how much is true or false from either side. What I posted above was FACT, that nothing has changed. The investigation was ongoing but no charges had been made. Doe first filed the Civil Suit then later filed the Police Report.

you seem to continuously try to poke holes in her story. That is not a good look and I don't see you doing that with him. Not sure that you even see your own bias.

I don't know if it was full fledged gang rape because I have no idea how drunk she was and if it was too drunk to consent. I have read s lot about this grey area and it is very complicated.

No matter what, I think that what he did that we do know as fact is in itself abominable. Slut shaming her will not help that. Every one of these accusers get slut shamed which is probable why they are so underreported.

Please read this excellent article: https://theringer.com/derrick-rose-rape-case-and-nba-fandom-bfd92e771d61#.798oklr2d

This part really explains a lot about what is going on here on this board:

Sports are an escape from life’s quotidian problems, so it’s not surprising that fans react with vexation when those problems — representing the real world — intrude. We treat athletes as characters in a story. Market forces turn those characters into brands. When those athletes do something delightful and on-brand — J.R. Smith strutting around shirtless, for example — we’re only too eager to highlight it. When they do something outside of that box, we become annoyed — stick to sports! If they do something bad, more often than not we simply ignore it.

I'm not biased towards Rose. In fact I've stated over and over again how I feel about the Charges. What I haven't done is made up my mind as if I know exactly what happened or what parts of both sides stories are true or not. They will eventually either settle or go to trial. More information will come out and even then we may still not know the truth. You are the one who seems to have made up your mind.
mreinman
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9/26/2016  3:46 PM
crzymdups wrote:
Nalod wrote:Seems like Rose does not yield to the threats by lawyers to use public disclosure(s) as leverage to settle.
Dude wants his day in court.

Timing of trail was masterful, getting it a the start of training cap. Very good.
Make it public putting his sponserships at risk.
Using the public thru out.

No doubt she is winning by damaging his reputation. I hope he knows what he is doing.
Im rooting for justice.
Rose needs to be "On the court", not "in the court"!!!!!!

He seems to believe he's innocent.

He may actually believe that because:

1) its true
2) he does/did not know what consent is/was
3) was too drunk himself to even know what they men did
4) he is not very bright (as has been often reported) and he does not have the capacity to know right from wrong or to even stand trial (playing basketball on the other hand does not require this same level of understanding)

so here is what phil is thinking ....
CrushAlot
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9/26/2016  3:47 PM
I read somewhere that Doe and her lawyers are pursuing a criminal case to try to pressure the judge not to release her identity. The pretrial motions that were ruled on on 9/23 didn't go that well for Doe. Her roommate will be allowed to testify for Rose and her identity will be revealed. The judge did rule that Rose could not bring Doe's social relationship with one of her attorneys into evidence. I posted it in the link to the motions in the off topic thread but I don't know how many people go there to read the thread. Again, the White Bronco Site is the closest thing to just presenting legal documents on the case that is out there.
http://thewhitebronco.com/2016/09/derrick-rose-lawsuit-update-friday-september-23-2016/
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
mreinman
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9/26/2016  3:47 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
crzymdups wrote:She's probably filing criminal charges now to make her civil trial case look better.

Honestly, it makes it look worse to me. Why wait so long to file criminal charges? Something about this case seems fishy as hell to me.

Fisrt she tried to get HUSH MONEY, then she filed a civil complaint, then the criminal complaint, the she sues...This is all about money, which is why the police didn't even interview him.

Her case looks so weak, and petty, which is why he isn't losing any sleep

You did not read up about this case, right? I suggest that you do before your next deliberation.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
mreinman
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9/26/2016  3:54 PM
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:Looks like the UK faithful mostly don't believe her and say that she looks bad.

Maybe she looks bad especially with the slut shaming defense in full effect but DERRICK ROSE LOOKS PRETTY AWFUL TOO.

I think you're ignoring many of the obvious problems with how she went about handling this. It could be that Rose did do something wrong in this case but it doesn't help her case that she 1st tried to get money out of him. I think that there is enough evidence to cast doubt on her version of things as well.

Unfortunately that is often the case in a situation where there was an existing consensual relationship. It makes it harder to prosecute such a case. This isn't a simple case from what i've read so far. Until we see all of the evidence and testimony it's impossible to say for sure just what happened.

ok ... so you think that she has cast doubt on herself, got it. What do you think about him? What he did? How he looks? How this would look to you if you were not a big knick fan, and perhaps you were even a woman? Or a mother? Would you be singing the same tune?

Remember, it took 80 woman to bring down Bill Cosby. Why do you think that is/was?


The allegations against Rose sound bad. I'm merely stating the information from both sides, whereas you seem to keep focus on things from her side. If you RE READ what I wrote you may notice that i've never said anything about Rose being guilty or innocent of anything and i've also written my personal disgust for what is reported to have happened in other threads. However, i'm not in a position to say how much is true or false from either side. What I posted above was FACT, that nothing has changed. The investigation was ongoing but no charges had been made. Doe first filed the Civil Suit then later filed the Police Report.

you seem to continuously try to poke holes in her story. That is not a good look and I don't see you doing that with him. Not sure that you even see your own bias.

I don't know if it was full fledged gang rape because I have no idea how drunk she was and if it was too drunk to consent. I have read s lot about this grey area and it is very complicated.

No matter what, I think that what he did that we do know as fact is in itself abominable. Slut shaming her will not help that. Every one of these accusers get slut shamed which is probable why they are so underreported.

Please read this excellent article: https://theringer.com/derrick-rose-rape-case-and-nba-fandom-bfd92e771d61#.798oklr2d

This part really explains a lot about what is going on here on this board:

Sports are an escape from life’s quotidian problems, so it’s not surprising that fans react with vexation when those problems — representing the real world — intrude. We treat athletes as characters in a story. Market forces turn those characters into brands. When those athletes do something delightful and on-brand — J.R. Smith strutting around shirtless, for example — we’re only too eager to highlight it. When they do something outside of that box, we become annoyed — stick to sports! If they do something bad, more often than not we simply ignore it.

I'm not biased towards Rose. In fact I've stated over and over again how I feel about the Charges. What I haven't done is made up my mind as if I know exactly what happened or what parts of both sides stories are true or not. They will eventually either settle or go to trial. More information will come out and even then we may still not know the truth. You are the one who seems to have made up your mind.

I have made up my mind that we don't want to face that Rose is possibly a gang rapist being that he is ours now and we have/had such high hopes for him.

I have made up my mind that rose is either extremely dumb or has committed an abominable act (even if not found guilty of gang rape).

I have made up my mind that fans will be biased and choose to ignore and/or assist in the most commonly used slut shaming defense. I think that you should go back and read your posts and see if its really not obvious to yourself where you lean.

Again, please read the Jason Concepcion article that I posted.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
nixluva
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9/26/2016  4:03 PM
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:Looks like the UK faithful mostly don't believe her and say that she looks bad.

Maybe she looks bad especially with the slut shaming defense in full effect but DERRICK ROSE LOOKS PRETTY AWFUL TOO.

I think you're ignoring many of the obvious problems with how she went about handling this. It could be that Rose did do something wrong in this case but it doesn't help her case that she 1st tried to get money out of him. I think that there is enough evidence to cast doubt on her version of things as well.

Unfortunately that is often the case in a situation where there was an existing consensual relationship. It makes it harder to prosecute such a case. This isn't a simple case from what i've read so far. Until we see all of the evidence and testimony it's impossible to say for sure just what happened.

ok ... so you think that she has cast doubt on herself, got it. What do you think about him? What he did? How he looks? How this would look to you if you were not a big knick fan, and perhaps you were even a woman? Or a mother? Would you be singing the same tune?

Remember, it took 80 woman to bring down Bill Cosby. Why do you think that is/was?


The allegations against Rose sound bad. I'm merely stating the information from both sides, whereas you seem to keep focus on things from her side. If you RE READ what I wrote you may notice that i've never said anything about Rose being guilty or innocent of anything and i've also written my personal disgust for what is reported to have happened in other threads. However, i'm not in a position to say how much is true or false from either side. What I posted above was FACT, that nothing has changed. The investigation was ongoing but no charges had been made. Doe first filed the Civil Suit then later filed the Police Report.

you seem to continuously try to poke holes in her story. That is not a good look and I don't see you doing that with him. Not sure that you even see your own bias.

I don't know if it was full fledged gang rape because I have no idea how drunk she was and if it was too drunk to consent. I have read s lot about this grey area and it is very complicated.

No matter what, I think that what he did that we do know as fact is in itself abominable. Slut shaming her will not help that. Every one of these accusers get slut shamed which is probable why they are so underreported.

Please read this excellent article: https://theringer.com/derrick-rose-rape-case-and-nba-fandom-bfd92e771d61#.798oklr2d

This part really explains a lot about what is going on here on this board:

Sports are an escape from life’s quotidian problems, so it’s not surprising that fans react with vexation when those problems — representing the real world — intrude. We treat athletes as characters in a story. Market forces turn those characters into brands. When those athletes do something delightful and on-brand — J.R. Smith strutting around shirtless, for example — we’re only too eager to highlight it. When they do something outside of that box, we become annoyed — stick to sports! If they do something bad, more often than not we simply ignore it.

I'm not biased towards Rose. In fact I've stated over and over again how I feel about the Charges. What I haven't done is made up my mind as if I know exactly what happened or what parts of both sides stories are true or not. They will eventually either settle or go to trial. More information will come out and even then we may still not know the truth. You are the one who seems to have made up your mind.

I have made up my mind that we don't want to face that Rose is possibly a gang rapist being that he is ours now and we have/had such high hopes for him.

I have made up my mind that rose is either extremely dumb or has committed an abominable act (even if not found guilty of gang rape).

I have made up my mind that fans will be biased and choose to ignore and/or assist in the most commonly used slut shaming defense. I think that you should go back and read your posts and see if its really not obvious to yourself where you lean.

Again, please read the Jason Concepcion article that I posted.


I've warned you about accusing me of being OK with rape!!! You think that we are willing to overlook if Rose is criminally charged with Rape and found guilty in a court of law just because he's a Knick??? That's insulting. YOU don't know that he's guilty of rape. He's going to either have his day in court in this Civil Suit or they will settle out of court. If the evidence points the LAPD in the direction of formally charging Rose then he'll face a Criminal trial, but so far that has not happened.
newyorknewyork
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9/26/2016  4:04 PM
mreinman wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:The story seems all off to me. First she wanted to get picked up for work. Then she was passed out when they got there because she may have been drunk already. Then they entered without her permission and slipped something in her drink even though she was already passed out?

I suggest that you read the full details to get a better understanding of her story.

https://thinkprogress.org/derrick-rose-rape-case-2182c16b55e2#.us3qvzxzt

Thanks

mreinman
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9/26/2016  4:06 PM
CrushAlot wrote:I read somewhere that Doe and her lawyers are pursuing a criminal case to try to pressure the judge not to release her identity. The pretrial motions that were ruled on on 9/23 didn't go that well for Doe. Her roommate will be allowed to testify for Rose and her identity will be revealed. The judge did rule that Rose could not bring Doe's social relationship with one of her attorneys into evidence. I posted it in the link to the motions in the off topic thread but I don't know how many people go there to read the thread. Again, the White Bronco Site is the closest thing to just presenting legal documents on the case that is out there.
http://thewhitebronco.com/2016/09/derrick-rose-lawsuit-update-friday-september-23-2016/

Didn't go that well for Doe was a bit misleading as well as only mentioning the things that did not go well for her. Even the one you mentioned that did go well for her (her alleged relationship with her attorney not being permissible) came across as a slut shaming tactic (though I am not claiming to know if this was your intent) ... so let me help out here and post the rulings (pros/cons for both sides):


The Judge Threatens Rose And His Legal Team

In the same Order, the Judge threatened to sanction Rose if he “continues to utilize language that shames and blames the victims of rape…” This isn’t the first time that he has scolding Rose’s lawyers. In an earlier order, after Rose argued that Doe should be forced to reveal her identity because she had social media posts that “are sexual in nature,” he wrote that Rose’s “rhetoric has no place in this Court.”

In a separate order released earlier this week, the Judge required Rose’s lead attorney Mark Baute to explain in writing to the court why he shouldn’t be sanctioned $1,000.00 for failing to use Doe’s pseudonym in open court.

Numerous Other Evidentiary Rulings

The parties filed 15 motions seeking to exclude evidence and witnesses (more on that here) and the judge ruled on many of them this week. Here are the highlights:

PDF of the Court’s Order
Rose can only use five (he wanted to use 34) photographs depicting Doe partying in Las Vegas weeks after the alleged assault.
Rose cannot introduce evidence regarding Doe’s “social relationship” with her attorney Brandon Anand.
For now, Rose cannot introduce evidence of Doe’s prior relationships and sexual predispositions. Rose sought to introduce evidence that Doe dated numerous other NBA players and had a tubal pregnancy during her last relationship before she met Rose. The Judge will revisit this issue during the next hearing on September 29th.
Rose can call Doe’s former roommate and coworker Keyana Lavergne. Ms. Lavergne recently filed a declaration that she cannot attend trial because she just moved to Miami, but Rose’s team plan on introducing her deposition testimony where she testified that Doe’s lawsuit is financially motivated.
Doe cannot introduce evidence that co-defendant Allen called escort services and sex workers.
Doe can testify that she felt drugged during the night of August 27, 2013.
The Judge scheduled an additional pretrial hearing for September 29th. Most of the key pretrial issues are settled, but a few evidentiary issues remaining including: whether Doe will be able to call a witness to testify about Rose’s SAT incident and the related NCAA investigation at the University of Memphis; whether Doe will be able to introduce video’s of her alleged PTSD symptoms (including acne); and, whether a few other witnesses will be allowed to testify.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
mreinman
Posts: 37827
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Joined: 7/14/2010
Member: #3189

9/26/2016  4:11 PM
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:Looks like the UK faithful mostly don't believe her and say that she looks bad.

Maybe she looks bad especially with the slut shaming defense in full effect but DERRICK ROSE LOOKS PRETTY AWFUL TOO.

I think you're ignoring many of the obvious problems with how she went about handling this. It could be that Rose did do something wrong in this case but it doesn't help her case that she 1st tried to get money out of him. I think that there is enough evidence to cast doubt on her version of things as well.

Unfortunately that is often the case in a situation where there was an existing consensual relationship. It makes it harder to prosecute such a case. This isn't a simple case from what i've read so far. Until we see all of the evidence and testimony it's impossible to say for sure just what happened.

ok ... so you think that she has cast doubt on herself, got it. What do you think about him? What he did? How he looks? How this would look to you if you were not a big knick fan, and perhaps you were even a woman? Or a mother? Would you be singing the same tune?

Remember, it took 80 woman to bring down Bill Cosby. Why do you think that is/was?


The allegations against Rose sound bad. I'm merely stating the information from both sides, whereas you seem to keep focus on things from her side. If you RE READ what I wrote you may notice that i've never said anything about Rose being guilty or innocent of anything and i've also written my personal disgust for what is reported to have happened in other threads. However, i'm not in a position to say how much is true or false from either side. What I posted above was FACT, that nothing has changed. The investigation was ongoing but no charges had been made. Doe first filed the Civil Suit then later filed the Police Report.

you seem to continuously try to poke holes in her story. That is not a good look and I don't see you doing that with him. Not sure that you even see your own bias.

I don't know if it was full fledged gang rape because I have no idea how drunk she was and if it was too drunk to consent. I have read s lot about this grey area and it is very complicated.

No matter what, I think that what he did that we do know as fact is in itself abominable. Slut shaming her will not help that. Every one of these accusers get slut shamed which is probable why they are so underreported.

Please read this excellent article: https://theringer.com/derrick-rose-rape-case-and-nba-fandom-bfd92e771d61#.798oklr2d

This part really explains a lot about what is going on here on this board:

Sports are an escape from life’s quotidian problems, so it’s not surprising that fans react with vexation when those problems — representing the real world — intrude. We treat athletes as characters in a story. Market forces turn those characters into brands. When those athletes do something delightful and on-brand — J.R. Smith strutting around shirtless, for example — we’re only too eager to highlight it. When they do something outside of that box, we become annoyed — stick to sports! If they do something bad, more often than not we simply ignore it.

I'm not biased towards Rose. In fact I've stated over and over again how I feel about the Charges. What I haven't done is made up my mind as if I know exactly what happened or what parts of both sides stories are true or not. They will eventually either settle or go to trial. More information will come out and even then we may still not know the truth. You are the one who seems to have made up your mind.

I have made up my mind that we don't want to face that Rose is possibly a gang rapist being that he is ours now and we have/had such high hopes for him.

I have made up my mind that rose is either extremely dumb or has committed an abominable act (even if not found guilty of gang rape).

I have made up my mind that fans will be biased and choose to ignore and/or assist in the most commonly used slut shaming defense. I think that you should go back and read your posts and see if its really not obvious to yourself where you lean.

Again, please read the Jason Concepcion article that I posted.


I've warned you about accusing me of being OK with rape!!! You think that we are willing to overlook if Rose is criminally charged with Rape and found guilty in a court of law just because he's a Knick??? That's insulting. YOU don't know that he's guilty of rape. He's going to either have his day in court in this Civil Suit or they will settle out of court. If the evidence points the LAPD in the direction of formally charging Rose then he'll face a Criminal trial, but so far that has not happened.

I did not say that you ARE OK WITH RAPE! Please re-read more carefully and again try not to see everything as 2 colors. Your reactions are all too common as I quoted before and I will quote again:

Sports are an escape from life’s quotidian problems, so it’s not surprising that fans react with vexation when those problems — representing the real world — intrude. We treat athletes as characters in a story. Market forces turn those characters into brands. When those athletes do something delightful and on-brand — J.R. Smith strutting around shirtless, for example — we’re only too eager to highlight it. When they do something outside of that box, we become annoyed — stick to sports! If they do something bad, more often than not we simply ignore it.

You can choose to not respond in this thread if you'd like but if you do, please stop crying wolf.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
CrushAlot
Posts: 55242
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USA
9/26/2016  4:14 PM
mreinman wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I read somewhere that Doe and her lawyers are pursuing a criminal case to try to pressure the judge not to release her identity. The pretrial motions that were ruled on on 9/23 didn't go that well for Doe. Her roommate will be allowed to testify for Rose and her identity will be revealed. The judge did rule that Rose could not bring Doe's social relationship with one of her attorneys into evidence. I posted it in the link to the motions in the off topic thread but I don't know how many people go there to read the thread. Again, the White Bronco Site is the closest thing to just presenting legal documents on the case that is out there.
http://thewhitebronco.com/2016/09/derrick-rose-lawsuit-update-friday-september-23-2016/

Didn't go that well for Doe was a bit misleading as well as only mentioning the things that did not go well for her. Even the one you mentioned that did go well for her (her alleged relationship with her attorney not being permissible) came across as a slut shaming tactic (though I am not claiming to know if this was your intent) ... so let me help out here and post the rulings (pros/cons for both sides):


The Judge Threatens Rose And His Legal Team

In the same Order, the Judge threatened to sanction Rose if he “continues to utilize language that shames and blames the victims of rape…” This isn’t the first time that he has scolding Rose’s lawyers. In an earlier order, after Rose argued that Doe should be forced to reveal her identity because she had social media posts that “are sexual in nature,” he wrote that Rose’s “rhetoric has no place in this Court.”

In a separate order released earlier this week, the Judge required Rose’s lead attorney Mark Baute to explain in writing to the court why he shouldn’t be sanctioned $1,000.00 for failing to use Doe’s pseudonym in open court.

Numerous Other Evidentiary Rulings

The parties filed 15 motions seeking to exclude evidence and witnesses (more on that here) and the judge ruled on many of them this week. Here are the highlights:

PDF of the Court’s Order
Rose can only use five (he wanted to use 34) photographs depicting Doe partying in Las Vegas weeks after the alleged assault.
Rose cannot introduce evidence regarding Doe’s “social relationship” with her attorney Brandon Anand.
For now, Rose cannot introduce evidence of Doe’s prior relationships and sexual predispositions. Rose sought to introduce evidence that Doe dated numerous other NBA players and had a tubal pregnancy during her last relationship before she met Rose. The Judge will revisit this issue during the next hearing on September 29th.
Rose can call Doe’s former roommate and coworker Keyana Lavergne. Ms. Lavergne recently filed a declaration that she cannot attend trial because she just moved to Miami, but Rose’s team plan on introducing her deposition testimony where she testified that Doe’s lawsuit is financially motivated.
Doe cannot introduce evidence that co-defendant Allen called escort services and sex workers.
Doe can testify that she felt drugged during the night of August 27, 2013.
The Judge scheduled an additional pretrial hearing for September 29th. Most of the key pretrial issues are settled, but a few evidentiary issues remaining including: whether Doe will be able to call a witness to testify about Rose’s SAT incident and the related NCAA investigation at the University of Memphis; whether Doe will be able to introduce video’s of her alleged PTSD symptoms (including acne); and, whether a few other witnesses will be allowed to testify.

In regards to the lawyer/Doe relationship the roommate has given testimony that they have gotten high together in front of her on at least 20 occasions, that Doe gets favors from the lawyer and that the lawyer seems to be fond of Doe. Nothing sexual but the actions certainly seem to be inappropriate. This is a nasty case. The lawyers for both sides do not appear to like or respect each other. You don't think the biggest ruling was that Doe's identity will be revealed? Also, the 'For Now' ruling about her sexual past seems to indicate that this could change.
I do prefer referencing trial documents as both sides have told different versions of what happened.
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
mreinman
Posts: 37827
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9/26/2016  4:23 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/26/2016  4:23 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
mreinman wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I read somewhere that Doe and her lawyers are pursuing a criminal case to try to pressure the judge not to release her identity. The pretrial motions that were ruled on on 9/23 didn't go that well for Doe. Her roommate will be allowed to testify for Rose and her identity will be revealed. The judge did rule that Rose could not bring Doe's social relationship with one of her attorneys into evidence. I posted it in the link to the motions in the off topic thread but I don't know how many people go there to read the thread. Again, the White Bronco Site is the closest thing to just presenting legal documents on the case that is out there.
http://thewhitebronco.com/2016/09/derrick-rose-lawsuit-update-friday-september-23-2016/

Didn't go that well for Doe was a bit misleading as well as only mentioning the things that did not go well for her. Even the one you mentioned that did go well for her (her alleged relationship with her attorney not being permissible) came across as a slut shaming tactic (though I am not claiming to know if this was your intent) ... so let me help out here and post the rulings (pros/cons for both sides):


The Judge Threatens Rose And His Legal Team

In the same Order, the Judge threatened to sanction Rose if he “continues to utilize language that shames and blames the victims of rape…” This isn’t the first time that he has scolding Rose’s lawyers. In an earlier order, after Rose argued that Doe should be forced to reveal her identity because she had social media posts that “are sexual in nature,” he wrote that Rose’s “rhetoric has no place in this Court.”

In a separate order released earlier this week, the Judge required Rose’s lead attorney Mark Baute to explain in writing to the court why he shouldn’t be sanctioned $1,000.00 for failing to use Doe’s pseudonym in open court.

Numerous Other Evidentiary Rulings

The parties filed 15 motions seeking to exclude evidence and witnesses (more on that here) and the judge ruled on many of them this week. Here are the highlights:

PDF of the Court’s Order
Rose can only use five (he wanted to use 34) photographs depicting Doe partying in Las Vegas weeks after the alleged assault.
Rose cannot introduce evidence regarding Doe’s “social relationship” with her attorney Brandon Anand.
For now, Rose cannot introduce evidence of Doe’s prior relationships and sexual predispositions. Rose sought to introduce evidence that Doe dated numerous other NBA players and had a tubal pregnancy during her last relationship before she met Rose. The Judge will revisit this issue during the next hearing on September 29th.
Rose can call Doe’s former roommate and coworker Keyana Lavergne. Ms. Lavergne recently filed a declaration that she cannot attend trial because she just moved to Miami, but Rose’s team plan on introducing her deposition testimony where she testified that Doe’s lawsuit is financially motivated.
Doe cannot introduce evidence that co-defendant Allen called escort services and sex workers.
Doe can testify that she felt drugged during the night of August 27, 2013.
The Judge scheduled an additional pretrial hearing for September 29th. Most of the key pretrial issues are settled, but a few evidentiary issues remaining including: whether Doe will be able to call a witness to testify about Rose’s SAT incident and the related NCAA investigation at the University of Memphis; whether Doe will be able to introduce video’s of her alleged PTSD symptoms (including acne); and, whether a few other witnesses will be allowed to testify.

In regards to the lawyer/Doe relationship the roommate has given testimony that they have gotten high together in front of her on at least 20 occasions, that Doe gets favors from the lawyer and that the lawyer seems to be fond of Doe. Nothing sexual but the actions certainly seem to be inappropriate. This is a nasty case. The lawyers for both sides do not appear to like or respect each other. You don't think the biggest ruling was that Doe's identity will be revealed? Also, the 'For Now' ruling about her sexual past seems to indicate that this could change.
I do prefer referencing trial documents as both sides have told different versions of what happened.

I think that it is highly inappropriate on the attorneys part though still all part of slut shaming. And her sexual past maybe a problem cause it may show (or may not) show that she was loose but how about his sexual past? Or is it different for guys "cause we men"?

A relevance to her sexual past would have importance for such things like testimony that she has gotten it on with three other guys before. If that was known then I would be surprised if the judge allowed this to be suppressed. Just plain slut shaming is of no use other than to deter other woman from coming forward (and btw, this tactic is working quite well).

The ruling about her identity was certainly important and damaging and I do agree that the criminal case may help them reverse this ruling.

You claim no bias by constantly claiming that you prefer to reference documents from both sides yet your comments as I pointed out usually claim something derogatory about Doe and not Rose. Not sure if that is intentional but that is how this is constantly coming across.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
crzymdups
Posts: 52015
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Member: #671
USA
9/26/2016  4:23 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
mreinman wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I read somewhere that Doe and her lawyers are pursuing a criminal case to try to pressure the judge not to release her identity. The pretrial motions that were ruled on on 9/23 didn't go that well for Doe. Her roommate will be allowed to testify for Rose and her identity will be revealed. The judge did rule that Rose could not bring Doe's social relationship with one of her attorneys into evidence. I posted it in the link to the motions in the off topic thread but I don't know how many people go there to read the thread. Again, the White Bronco Site is the closest thing to just presenting legal documents on the case that is out there.
http://thewhitebronco.com/2016/09/derrick-rose-lawsuit-update-friday-september-23-2016/

Didn't go that well for Doe was a bit misleading as well as only mentioning the things that did not go well for her. Even the one you mentioned that did go well for her (her alleged relationship with her attorney not being permissible) came across as a slut shaming tactic (though I am not claiming to know if this was your intent) ... so let me help out here and post the rulings (pros/cons for both sides):


The Judge Threatens Rose And His Legal Team

In the same Order, the Judge threatened to sanction Rose if he “continues to utilize language that shames and blames the victims of rape…” This isn’t the first time that he has scolding Rose’s lawyers. In an earlier order, after Rose argued that Doe should be forced to reveal her identity because she had social media posts that “are sexual in nature,” he wrote that Rose’s “rhetoric has no place in this Court.”

In a separate order released earlier this week, the Judge required Rose’s lead attorney Mark Baute to explain in writing to the court why he shouldn’t be sanctioned $1,000.00 for failing to use Doe’s pseudonym in open court.

Numerous Other Evidentiary Rulings

The parties filed 15 motions seeking to exclude evidence and witnesses (more on that here) and the judge ruled on many of them this week. Here are the highlights:

PDF of the Court’s Order
Rose can only use five (he wanted to use 34) photographs depicting Doe partying in Las Vegas weeks after the alleged assault.
Rose cannot introduce evidence regarding Doe’s “social relationship” with her attorney Brandon Anand.
For now, Rose cannot introduce evidence of Doe’s prior relationships and sexual predispositions. Rose sought to introduce evidence that Doe dated numerous other NBA players and had a tubal pregnancy during her last relationship before she met Rose. The Judge will revisit this issue during the next hearing on September 29th.
Rose can call Doe’s former roommate and coworker Keyana Lavergne. Ms. Lavergne recently filed a declaration that she cannot attend trial because she just moved to Miami, but Rose’s team plan on introducing her deposition testimony where she testified that Doe’s lawsuit is financially motivated.
Doe cannot introduce evidence that co-defendant Allen called escort services and sex workers.
Doe can testify that she felt drugged during the night of August 27, 2013.
The Judge scheduled an additional pretrial hearing for September 29th. Most of the key pretrial issues are settled, but a few evidentiary issues remaining including: whether Doe will be able to call a witness to testify about Rose’s SAT incident and the related NCAA investigation at the University of Memphis; whether Doe will be able to introduce video’s of her alleged PTSD symptoms (including acne); and, whether a few other witnesses will be allowed to testify.

In regards to the lawyer/Doe relationship the roommate has given testimony that they have gotten high together in front of her on at least 20 occasions, that Doe gets favors from the lawyer and that the lawyer seems to be fond of Doe. Nothing sexual but the actions certainly seem to be inappropriate. This is a nasty case. The lawyers for both sides do not appear to like or respect each other. You don't think the biggest ruling was that Doe's identity will be revealed? Also, the 'For Now' ruling about her sexual past seems to indicate that this could change.
I do prefer referencing trial documents as both sides have told different versions of what happened.

To me, the way the judge has treated this case pre-trial and the way the police have sort of non-chalantly said "we'll see where this goes" and haven't even forced Rose to come in for questioning... I mean... I agree that rapes and sexual assault are under reported and victims ought to be treated seriously... but Doe went for the money first and seems to have only gone to the police to protect her identity and to help her case. She went to the police two years after the incident... which is fine... but she went to Rose for hush money first and then filed a civil trial for $20M before pressing charges. Hushing sexual assault victims is serious business... but this really seems fishy as hell to me, and I thought so before Rose was ever a Knick. Extortion is also serious business and a crime. I hope justice is served in this case - and if I'm wrong I'll happily admit it. But even this girl's roommate seems to be against her in this case. I dunno. It seems fishy as all hell.

¿ △ ?
newyorknewyork
Posts: 27064
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9/26/2016  4:24 PM
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:Looks like the UK faithful mostly don't believe her and say that she looks bad.

Maybe she looks bad especially with the slut shaming defense in full effect but DERRICK ROSE LOOKS PRETTY AWFUL TOO.

I think you're ignoring many of the obvious problems with how she went about handling this. It could be that Rose did do something wrong in this case but it doesn't help her case that she 1st tried to get money out of him. I think that there is enough evidence to cast doubt on her version of things as well.

Unfortunately that is often the case in a situation where there was an existing consensual relationship. It makes it harder to prosecute such a case. This isn't a simple case from what i've read so far. Until we see all of the evidence and testimony it's impossible to say for sure just what happened.

ok ... so you think that she has cast doubt on herself, got it. What do you think about him? What he did? How he looks? How this would look to you if you were not a big knick fan, and perhaps you were even a woman? Or a mother? Would you be singing the same tune?

Remember, it took 80 woman to bring down Bill Cosby. Why do you think that is/was?


The allegations against Rose sound bad. I'm merely stating the information from both sides, whereas you seem to keep focus on things from her side. If you RE READ what I wrote you may notice that i've never said anything about Rose being guilty or innocent of anything and i've also written my personal disgust for what is reported to have happened in other threads. However, i'm not in a position to say how much is true or false from either side. What I posted above was FACT, that nothing has changed. The investigation was ongoing but no charges had been made. Doe first filed the Civil Suit then later filed the Police Report.

you seem to continuously try to poke holes in her story. That is not a good look and I don't see you doing that with him. Not sure that you even see your own bias.

I don't know if it was full fledged gang rape because I have no idea how drunk she was and if it was too drunk to consent. I have read s lot about this grey area and it is very complicated.

No matter what, I think that what he did that we do know as fact is in itself abominable. Slut shaming her will not help that. Every one of these accusers get slut shamed which is probable why they are so underreported.

Please read this excellent article: https://theringer.com/derrick-rose-rape-case-and-nba-fandom-bfd92e771d61#.798oklr2d

This part really explains a lot about what is going on here on this board:

Sports are an escape from life’s quotidian problems, so it’s not surprising that fans react with vexation when those problems — representing the real world — intrude. We treat athletes as characters in a story. Market forces turn those characters into brands. When those athletes do something delightful and on-brand — J.R. Smith strutting around shirtless, for example — we’re only too eager to highlight it. When they do something outside of that box, we become annoyed — stick to sports! If they do something bad, more often than not we simply ignore it.

I'm not biased towards Rose. In fact I've stated over and over again how I feel about the Charges. What I haven't done is made up my mind as if I know exactly what happened or what parts of both sides stories are true or not. They will eventually either settle or go to trial. More information will come out and even then we may still not know the truth. You are the one who seems to have made up your mind.

I have made up my mind that we don't want to face that Rose is possibly a gang rapist being that he is ours now and we have/had such high hopes for him.

I have made up my mind that rose is either extremely dumb or has committed an abominable act (even if not found guilty of gang rape).

I have made up my mind that fans will be biased and choose to ignore and/or assist in the most commonly used slut shaming defense. I think that you should go back and read your posts and see if its really not obvious to yourself where you lean.

Again, please read the Jason Concepcion article that I posted.

To play devils advocate we could accuse that you and others dislike for Rose, which has been on display since he was traded for. Has influenced your perception all the same as you believe fandom is protecting him. I personally have no attachment to D.Rose. I'm rooting for landing Chris Paul in the offseason. I view him currently as a one year rental until proven otherwise but even with a good season his injury history may not make it worth it.

Regardless from an *outside look* two things are in favor for Rose imo. The fact that she was looking for a financial compensation over criminal charges given the accusation. And the fact that he hasn't been willing to jump at a settlement trying to avoid criminal charges. I mean if Rose set up this woman to get gang raped and she is *offering* financial compensation to keep her mouth shut about it. Then if guilty wouldn't most jump on that? By not doing so he would be risking his career and freedom. While she was looking for compensation without risking her identity.

L.A. police investigating complaint against Knicks guard Derrick Rose

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