[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

To those Knicks fans dismissing Rose's rape case...
Author Thread
HofstraBBall
Posts: 22352
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/21/2015
Member: #6192

9/19/2016  8:44 AM    LAST EDITED: 9/19/2016  9:09 AM
mreinman wrote:
knickscity wrote:
mreinman wrote:
knickscity wrote:
mreinman wrote:
knickscity wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
knickscity wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
callmened wrote:I don't know whether there was consent or not.
I don't know what happened that night...that's up to a jury to decide

But to me rose's actions or thought process are disgusting whether there was consent or not

From what I understand, the girl begged to be his girlfriend. Rose broke up with her cuz she wouldn't let his friends have sex with her. Rose basically said if you don't let my friends have sex with you then we won't be a couple. THAT'S CRAZY!!! Now the rest is up to a jury. Sounds like they all got drunk and something went down...was it consented or not. I don't know.

I just think having a girl and wanting your friends to also sleep with her is CRAZY!!!!!!

From what I've read it doesn't seem like Rose EVER considered her anything more than a sex partner. Nothing I've read sounds like a normal committed relationship based on love and respect. She willingly dealt with him knowing what he was like. I'm not going to moralize about the behavior just because I don't agree with it. That's you're own personal choice. It seems clear she chose to deal with Rose knowing what kind of man he was and what his friends were like. They didn't hide their desires from her and her friend knew it too.

Now as for what happened that night the 2nd time they got together, she doesn't even know exactly what happened and she wasn't forced to get drunk or to text Rose to come over. She was lucid enough to text Rose after she got home and tell him she wanted him to come to her. The whole thing is a mess and it's not cut and dry the way some are trying to make it seem.

Whether you love Rose or not he made a bad judgment in this situation. It doesn't matter if he wears a knick uniform. Hell if Porzingis did a similar thing I would criticize him too and he is my favorite knick.

Every weekend there are men and women going to bars and clubs looking to have fun and possibly hook up. When they drink their inhibitions are relaxed and men are sleeping with women under those impaired conditions all the time. It's a risky lifestyle and adults engage in this knowingly. Rape is rape but under those circumstances it makes it harder to prove just what was said and done.

Women in this situation are in a tough spot. Jane Doe should've known better. She clearly knew Rose was that kind of guy cuz he had shown it the entire relationship. This could be a problem for her with the jury.

yeah she made a bad judgement cause she should have known that Rose was sleaze ... I guess she had it comin ... nice, I mean sick!

She DID know he was like that and yet she still dealt with him. Not in a normal everyday relationship but a purely sexual relationship! They weren't doing laundry together and hittin up flew markets on the weekends!!! They weren't taking each other to meet the family and planning for a future together! She knew exactly what he wanted and she was fine with it. There was nothing normal about it.

being a empty headed homer is one thing but this is blatantly disgusting. Have you no shame? YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF!

how the fuk do you know what happened or what she deserved or what she knew? Because she was allegedly loose with him, does that mean she had to be forced to sleep with his friends? You know for a fact that she was not raped or gang raped or date raped? Or, even if she was, she had it coming?

Perhaps she wanted to be raped? She knew this was a possibility too, right?

Nobody knows what actually happened so don't say stupid things when you don't have a clue! I assume that you don't have daughters, correct?

This is like you relentlessly talking about Matt Barnes destroying him as if that would make fisher look better. They both were idiots but to you its all black and white.

Rose, from reading all the horrible things in regards this case is a disgusting human being and if she is too, that will not make Rose less disgusting. And, you have no idea if she was raped or not so it may be time to shut it!


The attempts to shame the accuser has been a tactic for years all parties do such. Now while I do think Rose sexual preference is of the perverted nature, she definitely did know about it, as she is noted as refusing to partake in such. Rose has admitted this. The only question to be answered is whether Rose and his friends are liable this one particular time...consent to have such intercourse and trespass into her apartment to do so. One little piece of info is kind damning in which there are repeated calls to her phone unanswered just before they arrived to her place, which gives the impression that at the least she was sleep and at most passed out. It also makes no sense for her roommate to casually walk past dudes in her home, one trying to smash with her and all she does is go in her bedroom, lock the door and turn on a fan when a normal person would call the police. But perhaps she knew these guys and have seen them there before. Either way, it would be best for Rose to settle. Doesn't mean he's guilty to do so, just wanting to end the situation.
its important to remember many women who are victims of these acts are afraid to come forward at first because they are embarrassed/ashamed especially if the other people are well known

it's also important to remember that well known rich men get accused of such things quite often. Even businesses get sued quite often, the most ridiculous being the Liebeck vs Mcdonalds case....woman spills hot coffee on herself, should have used her cupholder, nah she hold hot coffee in her lap.....Mcdonalds fault I guess. so it goes both ways. I actually blame the federal courts for this. Cases such as this Rose vs Doe should be settled as criminal cases first and not civil first. I'm actually curious as to why she is so desperate to hide her identity. If she doesn't want others to face her fate do like the woman who sued Isiah and the Knicks, identify yourself, and win your case.

I can't question her for wanting to remain nameless, that is here right and if she wants to help others for her cause and come out then that is her right as well.

Rich people are certainly targets so if you are a smart rich guy then use your freakin brain ....


It's definitely obvious she seeks money primarily. if you haven't done so, take a read from the interview she gave the AP....

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/45c2cb76be434de5854f38239b049727/ap-exclusive-accuser-derrick-rose-rape-case-has-secret

I read it all and I still have no idea if she was raped. And as I said, slandering her even if true does not help him look better. So she is sleazy too? So what.

Again, nobody knows if she was raped or not at this point but the fact that he kept pressuring her to let him include his friends does not paint a pretty picture for him and he is the one who is on the knicks.


He'll settle if he wants to reclaim his NBA game and get this out of the way. but as far as the case, there's a lot of info that don't paint either side very well. For someone claiming she is of deep religious roots and would be embarrassed if her family found out, why enter a relationship based solely on sex when she knew he had a girlfriend at the time? And you better believe when she said she was "sexually inexperienced" Rose lawyers are gonna shred that willful admittance to pieces.

Again, I am not defending her character and it really has nothing to do with the fact that Rose who is a knick seems like a disgusting person.

Like you said, we don't know anything yet. Your right, forcing someone to have sex with two of your friends is disgusting and criminal. However, if it was consensual, we have no business knowing or judging them, no matter how much we disagree with such behavior . Many think renting an adult movie, sex before marriage, opening a playboy magazine, visiting a porn site and many other things are disgusting. And I don't think many on here or many anywhere can make the claim to have never participated. Obviously, not anywhere near the same level but can be classified the same by many, nonetheless. But like I said before, not good for him or the Knicks anyway you slice it.

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
AUTOADVERT
ESOMKnicks
Posts: 20340
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/14/2015
Member: #6064

9/19/2016  8:44 AM
Okay, so it is the "no means no" concept. So, unless she actually said "no" to having sex with Rose when they came to her home that night, did Rose commit a rape?
dk7th
Posts: 30006
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/14/2012
Member: #4228
USA
9/19/2016  8:56 AM
ESOMKnicks wrote:Okay, so it is the "no means no" concept. So, unless she actually said "no" to having sex with Rose when they came to her home that night, did Rose commit a rape?

if she was unconscious or became unconscious while he and his friends were there and they decided to lube her up and do the do, then what do you call that?

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
ESOMKnicks
Posts: 20340
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/14/2015
Member: #6064

9/19/2016  9:15 AM    LAST EDITED: 9/19/2016  9:17 AM
If she was unconscious or severely incoherent or incapacitated when they came to her apartment and started having sex with her while she could not signal consent or lack of it, then it was rape, plain and simple.

If she let them in, talked to them, did not say "no", and was alert and communicative during the sex, cleaned her room while they were still there and then saw them off, then i struggle to see how it was not consensual.

dk7th
Posts: 30006
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/14/2012
Member: #4228
USA
9/19/2016  10:01 AM
ESOMKnicks wrote:If she was unconscious or severely incoherent or incapacitated when they came to her apartment and started having sex with her while she could not signal consent or lack of it, then it was rape, plain and simple.

If she let them in, talked to them, did not say "no", and was alert and communicative during the sex, cleaned her room while they were still there and then saw them off, then i struggle to see how it was not consensual.

it's a he said-she said thing and in a civil trial her testimony only needs to meet the standard of believable, as opposed to a criminal trial where a defendant would have to be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, ie the criterion for a plaintiff's winning a civil case is much lower.

given the strategy of rose and his team-- character assassination-- this is going to end badly for him.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
jrodmc
Posts: 30618
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 11/24/2004
Member: #805
USA
9/19/2016  10:21 AM
...this thread should give you a nice view into what the small cadre of melonhaters (see what I did there for you, ChuckyBooBoo?) can channel their off-season negative energy into...

Get down girl go head get down
Get down girl go head get down
Get down girl go head get down
Get down girl go head
Songwriters: RENALD RICHARD, RAY CHARLES, KANYE WEST

Funny, it's not a criminal case. I wonder why...
And she's taking trips to Vegas during all these legal proceedings.
And her text messages don't seem to reflect her now deep and abiding concern for her Catholic family values.

Is Rose a pastor? Nope. Does he need to seriously consider growing up and treating his private life as something more substantive than a POV porn video? Sure makes all the "God bless us all" -- crying during press conferences -- seem a bit disingenuous, huh? Compartmentalization of one's morality hardly ever plays well in the media, does it?
Another athlete with tons of cash and not much else going on upstairs at times. Ewing, Spree, Marbles...the beat goes on...

I guess the lesson here is to do what you want, just don't get caught.

Shaw: It stinks, I suppose.

Tripp: Yeah, it stinks bad.
And we all covered up in it.
Ain't nobody clean.
Be nice to get clean though.

Shaw: How do we do that?

Tripp: We ante up and kick in, sir.
But I still don't wanna carry your flag.

You guys spend a lot of time commenting on the internet?
Nalod
Posts: 54089
Alba Posts: 151
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
9/19/2016  10:39 AM
Im curious where the dollar figure comes from? $21mil is a lot of money.
Can't put a price on a persons dignity, but Im just curious where that figure is from. I understand its his annual salary under this contract, but where do you put a price on it.

Statute of limitations was at the buzzer when it was filed and she never filed a criminal complaint. No doubt this is a money grab. The question is whether she is entitled to some.
Two deplorable people in my opinion. On one hand Rose is a poster child for the entitled elite athlete stereo type and she sold her soul long ago to be with him.

Rose to me is a Marbury type who has been enabled by his basketball talent. Karma seems to be taking this kid down. Maybe his injury is due to reliance on his natural gifts and not respect to his body? Did he lack investment to train properly and eat right? The body don't lie!
As for treating women with respect, this civil suit is not without some basis or history of treating people badly. Flaunting wealth and lifestyle to gain the favor of women does not attract the best available nor elevate ones self to be a better man. Im not saying one can't play and have fun, but there is a protocol of respect to which it can be done. If you "use" people the karma comes back.

IN any event Rose is paying the price. How much will determined in a court of law.
As for allowing this low life to be a knick? Well, im sure even some of our favorite knicks in the past have not exactly been boy scouts either. Anthony Mason was basically exiled for his excessive lifestyle and penchant for underage women. Marbury was toxic to himself and the franchise before he matured overseas.

Rose need not be a great guy but at least he is on a one year contract and there will be time to vet him out physically and culturally depending on the outcome of this trail.
Im encouraged he is fighting this but as we have learned sometimes its dumb as hell to do so.

Anger sells, don't buy!
Welpee
Posts: 21618
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239

9/19/2016  10:57 AM
mreinman wrote:
Welpee wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
callmened wrote:I don't know whether there was consent or not.
I don't know what happened that night...that's up to a jury to decide

But to me rose's actions or thought process are disgusting whether there was consent or not

From what I understand, the girl begged to be his girlfriend. Rose broke up with her cuz she wouldn't let his friends have sex with her. Rose basically said if you don't let my friends have sex with you then we won't be a couple. THAT'S CRAZY!!! Now the rest is up to a jury. Sounds like they all got drunk and something went down...was it consented or not. I don't know.

I just think having a girl and wanting your friends to also sleep with her is CRAZY!!!!!!

From what I've read it doesn't seem like Rose EVER considered her anything more than a sex partner. Nothing I've read sounds like a normal committed relationship based on love and respect. She willingly dealt with him knowing what he was like. I'm not going to moralize about the behavior just because I don't agree with it. That's you're own personal choice. It seems clear she chose to deal with Rose knowing what kind of man he was and what his friends were like. They didn't hide their desires from her and her friend knew it too.

Now as for what happened that night the 2nd time they got together, she doesn't even know exactly what happened and she wasn't forced to get drunk or to text Rose to come over. She was lucid enough to text Rose after she got home and tell him she wanted him to come to her. The whole thing is a mess and it's not cut and dry the way some are trying to make it seem.

Whether you love Rose or not he made a bad judgment in this situation. It doesn't matter if he wears a knick uniform. Hell if Porzingis did a similar thing I would criticize him too and he is my favorite knick.

Every weekend there are men and women going to bars and clubs looking to have fun and possibly hook up. When they drink their inhibitions are relaxed and men are sleeping with women under those impaired conditions all the time. It's a risky lifestyle and adults engage in this knowingly. Rape is rape but under those circumstances it makes it harder to prove just what was said and done.

Women in this situation are in a tough spot. Jane Doe should've known better. She clearly knew Rose was that kind of guy cuz he had shown it the entire relationship. This could be a problem for her with the jury.

Either way Rose messed up.

Oh he was an idiot!!! There are plenty of women out there that are down with his lifestyle. No need to force it upon someone who wasn't really into it. On top of that he could've smoothed things with her by just apologizing and being decent. He was a jerk and now it's coming back on him. Still doesn't mean she was raped. The Police decided her case was weak and I think his lawyers may point this out to the jury. So she's not guaranteed to win this either. If I was his lawyer I would advise to settle cuz it's not worth it. He messed up and should've just paid up. Lesson learned. This could cost him more than if he settled.

but that isnt point. Sure he may not be guilty of a criminal charge but that behavior shows that he isnt a good guy. Thankfully he only has 1 year left on his deal
Where do you draw the "good guy" line? Are you not a good guy if you hit the strip clubs? Cheat on your wife or girlfriend? Like having orgies? Like having sex on webcams? Date multiple women at the same time? Like taking pics of your privates with your cell phone? If being a "good guy" is defined by your bedroom behavior I bet you'd be surprised how many guys are also not "good guys," they just haven't been caught.

So if he didn't rape her but is into orgies, that makes him not a "good guy?"

so im guessing you are his side? Never said he raped her but it Seems like he pressured her which isnt right
I'm not on anybody's side. I'm not siding with Rose because he's a Knick. I'm not siding with the woman just because she's a female. Like I said, nobody really knows what happened. I will admit I find her version of the story hard to believe.

The reality is the truth is probably somewhere in the middle and they're both lying to a certain extent.

Ok ... so perhaps there was a little bit of a shady sexual transgression here? Like I said, she is irrelevant cause she does not play for the knicks.

"Shady sexual transgression" is a loaded term. One person's definition of a "transgression" could be another person's definition of just being kinky. Is an orgie a transgression or just kinky? But yes, he probably did something he shouldn't have done. Whether it was illegal is another story. Being a sleaze or a jerk is not a crime.
nixluva
Posts: 55259
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
9/19/2016  11:00 AM
Nalod wrote:Im curious where the dollar figure comes from? $21mil is a lot of money.
Can't put a price on a persons dignity, but Im just curious where that figure is from. I understand its his annual salary under this contract, but where do you put a price on it.

Statute of limitations was at the buzzer when it was filed and she never filed a criminal complaint. No doubt this is a money grab. The question is whether she is entitled to some.
Two deplorable people in my opinion. On one hand Rose is a poster child for the entitled elite athlete stereo type and she sold her soul long ago to be with him.

Rose to me is a Marbury type who has been enabled by his basketball talent. Karma seems to be taking this kid down. Maybe his injury is due to reliance on his natural gifts and not respect to his body? Did he lack investment to train properly and eat right? The body don't lie!
As for treating women with respect, this civil suit is not without some basis or history of treating people badly. Flaunting wealth and lifestyle to gain the favor of women does not attract the best available nor elevate ones self to be a better man. Im not saying one can't play and have fun, but there is a protocol of respect to which it can be done. If you "use" people the karma comes back.

IN any event Rose is paying the price. How much will determined in a court of law.
As for allowing this low life to be a knick? Well, im sure even some of our favorite knicks in the past have not exactly been boy scouts either. Anthony Mason was basically exiled for his excessive lifestyle and penchant for underage women. Marbury was toxic to himself and the franchise before he matured overseas.

Rose need not be a great guy but at least he is on a one year contract and there will be time to vet him out physically and culturally depending on the outcome of this trail.
Im encouraged he is fighting this but as we have learned sometimes its dumb as hell to do so.

People forget the behavior of guys like Wilt Chamberlain and Magic Johnson. Heck our very favorite 90's Knicks. There has always been this kind of stuff going on but often we just don't know about the personal lives of athletes, movie stars or musicians. The stories of excess and vice among these groups is pretty well established.
Unfortunately Rose also falls into this category but we can't know for sure just what happened on that night in question. Perhaps he's matured since then as others have.

mreinman
Posts: 37827
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/14/2010
Member: #3189

9/19/2016  11:00 AM    LAST EDITED: 9/19/2016  11:01 AM
Welpee wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Welpee wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
callmened wrote:I don't know whether there was consent or not.
I don't know what happened that night...that's up to a jury to decide

But to me rose's actions or thought process are disgusting whether there was consent or not

From what I understand, the girl begged to be his girlfriend. Rose broke up with her cuz she wouldn't let his friends have sex with her. Rose basically said if you don't let my friends have sex with you then we won't be a couple. THAT'S CRAZY!!! Now the rest is up to a jury. Sounds like they all got drunk and something went down...was it consented or not. I don't know.

I just think having a girl and wanting your friends to also sleep with her is CRAZY!!!!!!

From what I've read it doesn't seem like Rose EVER considered her anything more than a sex partner. Nothing I've read sounds like a normal committed relationship based on love and respect. She willingly dealt with him knowing what he was like. I'm not going to moralize about the behavior just because I don't agree with it. That's you're own personal choice. It seems clear she chose to deal with Rose knowing what kind of man he was and what his friends were like. They didn't hide their desires from her and her friend knew it too.

Now as for what happened that night the 2nd time they got together, she doesn't even know exactly what happened and she wasn't forced to get drunk or to text Rose to come over. She was lucid enough to text Rose after she got home and tell him she wanted him to come to her. The whole thing is a mess and it's not cut and dry the way some are trying to make it seem.

Whether you love Rose or not he made a bad judgment in this situation. It doesn't matter if he wears a knick uniform. Hell if Porzingis did a similar thing I would criticize him too and he is my favorite knick.

Every weekend there are men and women going to bars and clubs looking to have fun and possibly hook up. When they drink their inhibitions are relaxed and men are sleeping with women under those impaired conditions all the time. It's a risky lifestyle and adults engage in this knowingly. Rape is rape but under those circumstances it makes it harder to prove just what was said and done.

Women in this situation are in a tough spot. Jane Doe should've known better. She clearly knew Rose was that kind of guy cuz he had shown it the entire relationship. This could be a problem for her with the jury.

Either way Rose messed up.

Oh he was an idiot!!! There are plenty of women out there that are down with his lifestyle. No need to force it upon someone who wasn't really into it. On top of that he could've smoothed things with her by just apologizing and being decent. He was a jerk and now it's coming back on him. Still doesn't mean she was raped. The Police decided her case was weak and I think his lawyers may point this out to the jury. So she's not guaranteed to win this either. If I was his lawyer I would advise to settle cuz it's not worth it. He messed up and should've just paid up. Lesson learned. This could cost him more than if he settled.

but that isnt point. Sure he may not be guilty of a criminal charge but that behavior shows that he isnt a good guy. Thankfully he only has 1 year left on his deal
Where do you draw the "good guy" line? Are you not a good guy if you hit the strip clubs? Cheat on your wife or girlfriend? Like having orgies? Like having sex on webcams? Date multiple women at the same time? Like taking pics of your privates with your cell phone? If being a "good guy" is defined by your bedroom behavior I bet you'd be surprised how many guys are also not "good guys," they just haven't been caught.

So if he didn't rape her but is into orgies, that makes him not a "good guy?"

so im guessing you are his side? Never said he raped her but it Seems like he pressured her which isnt right
I'm not on anybody's side. I'm not siding with Rose because he's a Knick. I'm not siding with the woman just because she's a female. Like I said, nobody really knows what happened. I will admit I find her version of the story hard to believe.

The reality is the truth is probably somewhere in the middle and they're both lying to a certain extent.

Ok ... so perhaps there was a little bit of a shady sexual transgression here? Like I said, she is irrelevant cause she does not play for the knicks.

"Shady sexual transgression" is a loaded term. One person's definition of a "transgression" could be another person's definition of just being kinky. Is an orgie a transgression or just kinky? But yes, he probably did something he shouldn't have done. Whether it was illegal is another story. Being a sleaze or a jerk is not a crime.

pushing your girl really hard to have your nasty boys included in itself (to me) is a transgression.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
Welpee
Posts: 21618
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239

9/19/2016  11:08 AM
dk7th wrote:
ESOMKnicks wrote:Actually, what is the meaning of consent? Beyond the "no means no" rule, assuming there wasnt a "no" explicitly said. I am not certain there will be consensus on this even just on this thread, let alone in society at large.

permission or agreement, as in "no i do not give your friends permission to have sex with me"-- or-- "no i do not agree to having sex with your friends."

"but we men."

"no derrick, as i have been saying to you for the months and years we have known each other, i do not want to have a threesome or foursome, no matter how many times you ask me. yes i will drink with you, party with you, even use a sex belt with you-- but i will have sex with you and you only, preferably in a conscious state."

Or..."I really want to be with this guy who seems to be luke warm towards me and drifting away. So yeah, I'll agree to give in to his fantasy (after I got drunk) because I think that's the only way to keep him (and his money) in my life." Then she sobers up, thinks about what she did, has regrets and shame, wants him to pay for the mistake she agree to while under the influence (though still conscious).

Who knows?

Welpee
Posts: 21618
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239

9/19/2016  11:15 AM
mreinman wrote:
Welpee wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Welpee wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
callmened wrote:I don't know whether there was consent or not.
I don't know what happened that night...that's up to a jury to decide

But to me rose's actions or thought process are disgusting whether there was consent or not

From what I understand, the girl begged to be his girlfriend. Rose broke up with her cuz she wouldn't let his friends have sex with her. Rose basically said if you don't let my friends have sex with you then we won't be a couple. THAT'S CRAZY!!! Now the rest is up to a jury. Sounds like they all got drunk and something went down...was it consented or not. I don't know.

I just think having a girl and wanting your friends to also sleep with her is CRAZY!!!!!!

From what I've read it doesn't seem like Rose EVER considered her anything more than a sex partner. Nothing I've read sounds like a normal committed relationship based on love and respect. She willingly dealt with him knowing what he was like. I'm not going to moralize about the behavior just because I don't agree with it. That's you're own personal choice. It seems clear she chose to deal with Rose knowing what kind of man he was and what his friends were like. They didn't hide their desires from her and her friend knew it too.

Now as for what happened that night the 2nd time they got together, she doesn't even know exactly what happened and she wasn't forced to get drunk or to text Rose to come over. She was lucid enough to text Rose after she got home and tell him she wanted him to come to her. The whole thing is a mess and it's not cut and dry the way some are trying to make it seem.

Whether you love Rose or not he made a bad judgment in this situation. It doesn't matter if he wears a knick uniform. Hell if Porzingis did a similar thing I would criticize him too and he is my favorite knick.

Every weekend there are men and women going to bars and clubs looking to have fun and possibly hook up. When they drink their inhibitions are relaxed and men are sleeping with women under those impaired conditions all the time. It's a risky lifestyle and adults engage in this knowingly. Rape is rape but under those circumstances it makes it harder to prove just what was said and done.

Women in this situation are in a tough spot. Jane Doe should've known better. She clearly knew Rose was that kind of guy cuz he had shown it the entire relationship. This could be a problem for her with the jury.

Either way Rose messed up.

Oh he was an idiot!!! There are plenty of women out there that are down with his lifestyle. No need to force it upon someone who wasn't really into it. On top of that he could've smoothed things with her by just apologizing and being decent. He was a jerk and now it's coming back on him. Still doesn't mean she was raped. The Police decided her case was weak and I think his lawyers may point this out to the jury. So she's not guaranteed to win this either. If I was his lawyer I would advise to settle cuz it's not worth it. He messed up and should've just paid up. Lesson learned. This could cost him more than if he settled.

but that isnt point. Sure he may not be guilty of a criminal charge but that behavior shows that he isnt a good guy. Thankfully he only has 1 year left on his deal
Where do you draw the "good guy" line? Are you not a good guy if you hit the strip clubs? Cheat on your wife or girlfriend? Like having orgies? Like having sex on webcams? Date multiple women at the same time? Like taking pics of your privates with your cell phone? If being a "good guy" is defined by your bedroom behavior I bet you'd be surprised how many guys are also not "good guys," they just haven't been caught.

So if he didn't rape her but is into orgies, that makes him not a "good guy?"

so im guessing you are his side? Never said he raped her but it Seems like he pressured her which isnt right
I'm not on anybody's side. I'm not siding with Rose because he's a Knick. I'm not siding with the woman just because she's a female. Like I said, nobody really knows what happened. I will admit I find her version of the story hard to believe.

The reality is the truth is probably somewhere in the middle and they're both lying to a certain extent.

Ok ... so perhaps there was a little bit of a shady sexual transgression here? Like I said, she is irrelevant cause she does not play for the knicks.

"Shady sexual transgression" is a loaded term. One person's definition of a "transgression" could be another person's definition of just being kinky. Is an orgie a transgression or just kinky? But yes, he probably did something he shouldn't have done. Whether it was illegal is another story. Being a sleaze or a jerk is not a crime.

pushing your girl really hard to have your nasty boys included in itself (to me) is a transgression.

Everybody has their boundaries. Someone else's boundaries may not be in line with your's or mine's. If it's not illegal and it's consensual, who are we to judge?
mreinman
Posts: 37827
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/14/2010
Member: #3189

9/19/2016  11:18 AM
Welpee wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Welpee wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Welpee wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
callmened wrote:I don't know whether there was consent or not.
I don't know what happened that night...that's up to a jury to decide

But to me rose's actions or thought process are disgusting whether there was consent or not

From what I understand, the girl begged to be his girlfriend. Rose broke up with her cuz she wouldn't let his friends have sex with her. Rose basically said if you don't let my friends have sex with you then we won't be a couple. THAT'S CRAZY!!! Now the rest is up to a jury. Sounds like they all got drunk and something went down...was it consented or not. I don't know.

I just think having a girl and wanting your friends to also sleep with her is CRAZY!!!!!!

From what I've read it doesn't seem like Rose EVER considered her anything more than a sex partner. Nothing I've read sounds like a normal committed relationship based on love and respect. She willingly dealt with him knowing what he was like. I'm not going to moralize about the behavior just because I don't agree with it. That's you're own personal choice. It seems clear she chose to deal with Rose knowing what kind of man he was and what his friends were like. They didn't hide their desires from her and her friend knew it too.

Now as for what happened that night the 2nd time they got together, she doesn't even know exactly what happened and she wasn't forced to get drunk or to text Rose to come over. She was lucid enough to text Rose after she got home and tell him she wanted him to come to her. The whole thing is a mess and it's not cut and dry the way some are trying to make it seem.

Whether you love Rose or not he made a bad judgment in this situation. It doesn't matter if he wears a knick uniform. Hell if Porzingis did a similar thing I would criticize him too and he is my favorite knick.

Every weekend there are men and women going to bars and clubs looking to have fun and possibly hook up. When they drink their inhibitions are relaxed and men are sleeping with women under those impaired conditions all the time. It's a risky lifestyle and adults engage in this knowingly. Rape is rape but under those circumstances it makes it harder to prove just what was said and done.

Women in this situation are in a tough spot. Jane Doe should've known better. She clearly knew Rose was that kind of guy cuz he had shown it the entire relationship. This could be a problem for her with the jury.

Either way Rose messed up.

Oh he was an idiot!!! There are plenty of women out there that are down with his lifestyle. No need to force it upon someone who wasn't really into it. On top of that he could've smoothed things with her by just apologizing and being decent. He was a jerk and now it's coming back on him. Still doesn't mean she was raped. The Police decided her case was weak and I think his lawyers may point this out to the jury. So she's not guaranteed to win this either. If I was his lawyer I would advise to settle cuz it's not worth it. He messed up and should've just paid up. Lesson learned. This could cost him more than if he settled.

but that isnt point. Sure he may not be guilty of a criminal charge but that behavior shows that he isnt a good guy. Thankfully he only has 1 year left on his deal
Where do you draw the "good guy" line? Are you not a good guy if you hit the strip clubs? Cheat on your wife or girlfriend? Like having orgies? Like having sex on webcams? Date multiple women at the same time? Like taking pics of your privates with your cell phone? If being a "good guy" is defined by your bedroom behavior I bet you'd be surprised how many guys are also not "good guys," they just haven't been caught.

So if he didn't rape her but is into orgies, that makes him not a "good guy?"

so im guessing you are his side? Never said he raped her but it Seems like he pressured her which isnt right
I'm not on anybody's side. I'm not siding with Rose because he's a Knick. I'm not siding with the woman just because she's a female. Like I said, nobody really knows what happened. I will admit I find her version of the story hard to believe.

The reality is the truth is probably somewhere in the middle and they're both lying to a certain extent.

Ok ... so perhaps there was a little bit of a shady sexual transgression here? Like I said, she is irrelevant cause she does not play for the knicks.

"Shady sexual transgression" is a loaded term. One person's definition of a "transgression" could be another person's definition of just being kinky. Is an orgie a transgression or just kinky? But yes, he probably did something he shouldn't have done. Whether it was illegal is another story. Being a sleaze or a jerk is not a crime.

pushing your girl really hard to have your nasty boys included in itself (to me) is a transgression.

Everybody has their boundaries. Someone else's boundaries may not be in line with your's or mine's. If it's not illegal and it's consensual, who are we to judge?

everything is grey (I guess) and we are all judges. How would you judge what would be ok for your daughter or your sister? How would you feel if your daughter was being heavily pressured to take on 3 or 4 athletes at a time?

so here is what phil is thinking ....
dk7th
Posts: 30006
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/14/2012
Member: #4228
USA
9/19/2016  11:23 AM
Welpee wrote:
dk7th wrote:
ESOMKnicks wrote:Actually, what is the meaning of consent? Beyond the "no means no" rule, assuming there wasnt a "no" explicitly said. I am not certain there will be consensus on this even just on this thread, let alone in society at large.

permission or agreement, as in "no i do not give your friends permission to have sex with me"-- or-- "no i do not agree to having sex with your friends."

"but we men."

"no derrick, as i have been saying to you for the months and years we have known each other, i do not want to have a threesome or foursome, no matter how many times you ask me. yes i will drink with you, party with you, even use a sex belt with you-- but i will have sex with you and you only, preferably in a conscious state."

Or..."I really want to be with this guy who seems to be luke warm towards me and drifting away. So yeah, I'll agree to give in to his fantasy (after I got drunk) because I think that's the only way to keep him (and his money) in my life." Then she sobers up, thinks about what she did, has regrets and shame, wants him to pay for the mistake she agree to while under the influence (though still conscious).

Who knows?

right. the jury will decide what we know, since rose insists that it goes to court.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
ChuckBuck
Posts: 28851
Alba Posts: 11
Joined: 1/3/2012
Member: #3806
USA
9/19/2016  11:30 AM
There seems to be a hideous double standard here. Athletes are expected to be "morally reprehensible people", that's what I can gather reading these last few pages, and any woman attempting to have a relationship with said athlete know going in that's what is to be expected. Just spread your legs and be a loose whore, you asked for it!

No. Big phucking time No. It doesn't matter if Jane Doe is a stripper, prostitute, or Porn Star for a living.

If she was drunk, passed out, intoxicated or incoherent for even 1% or 1 second when there was 3 big black coks in the room, IT DOES NOT MEAN CONSENT to her holes!

Does nobody here have any daughters, for chrissakes!!!!

People actually posting biased articles or link to bootleg websites to try to rationalize scumbag lowlife Rose behavior that night....WHO THE PHUCK CARES THAT HE'S ON THE KNICKS?

Rape is Rape. It's bad enough that we have endure this bad morally inept character for 1 year...

martin
Posts: 46315
Alba Posts: 106
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
9/19/2016  11:38 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:There seems to be a hideous double standard here. Athletes are expected to be "morally reprehensible people", that's what I can gather reading these last few pages, and any woman attempting to have a relationship with said athlete know going in that's what is to be expected. Just spread your legs and be a loose whore, you asked for it!

This is not accurate. Go back and read and then respond to the exact posts that you think illustrate your point. Otherwise it's just your incorrect assumption or worse.

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
Welpee
Posts: 21618
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239

9/19/2016  11:40 AM
mreinman wrote:
Welpee wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Welpee wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Welpee wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
callmened wrote:I don't know whether there was consent or not.
I don't know what happened that night...that's up to a jury to decide

But to me rose's actions or thought process are disgusting whether there was consent or not

From what I understand, the girl begged to be his girlfriend. Rose broke up with her cuz she wouldn't let his friends have sex with her. Rose basically said if you don't let my friends have sex with you then we won't be a couple. THAT'S CRAZY!!! Now the rest is up to a jury. Sounds like they all got drunk and something went down...was it consented or not. I don't know.

I just think having a girl and wanting your friends to also sleep with her is CRAZY!!!!!!

From what I've read it doesn't seem like Rose EVER considered her anything more than a sex partner. Nothing I've read sounds like a normal committed relationship based on love and respect. She willingly dealt with him knowing what he was like. I'm not going to moralize about the behavior just because I don't agree with it. That's you're own personal choice. It seems clear she chose to deal with Rose knowing what kind of man he was and what his friends were like. They didn't hide their desires from her and her friend knew it too.

Now as for what happened that night the 2nd time they got together, she doesn't even know exactly what happened and she wasn't forced to get drunk or to text Rose to come over. She was lucid enough to text Rose after she got home and tell him she wanted him to come to her. The whole thing is a mess and it's not cut and dry the way some are trying to make it seem.

Whether you love Rose or not he made a bad judgment in this situation. It doesn't matter if he wears a knick uniform. Hell if Porzingis did a similar thing I would criticize him too and he is my favorite knick.

Every weekend there are men and women going to bars and clubs looking to have fun and possibly hook up. When they drink their inhibitions are relaxed and men are sleeping with women under those impaired conditions all the time. It's a risky lifestyle and adults engage in this knowingly. Rape is rape but under those circumstances it makes it harder to prove just what was said and done.

Women in this situation are in a tough spot. Jane Doe should've known better. She clearly knew Rose was that kind of guy cuz he had shown it the entire relationship. This could be a problem for her with the jury.

Either way Rose messed up.

Oh he was an idiot!!! There are plenty of women out there that are down with his lifestyle. No need to force it upon someone who wasn't really into it. On top of that he could've smoothed things with her by just apologizing and being decent. He was a jerk and now it's coming back on him. Still doesn't mean she was raped. The Police decided her case was weak and I think his lawyers may point this out to the jury. So she's not guaranteed to win this either. If I was his lawyer I would advise to settle cuz it's not worth it. He messed up and should've just paid up. Lesson learned. This could cost him more than if he settled.

but that isnt point. Sure he may not be guilty of a criminal charge but that behavior shows that he isnt a good guy. Thankfully he only has 1 year left on his deal
Where do you draw the "good guy" line? Are you not a good guy if you hit the strip clubs? Cheat on your wife or girlfriend? Like having orgies? Like having sex on webcams? Date multiple women at the same time? Like taking pics of your privates with your cell phone? If being a "good guy" is defined by your bedroom behavior I bet you'd be surprised how many guys are also not "good guys," they just haven't been caught.

So if he didn't rape her but is into orgies, that makes him not a "good guy?"

so im guessing you are his side? Never said he raped her but it Seems like he pressured her which isnt right
I'm not on anybody's side. I'm not siding with Rose because he's a Knick. I'm not siding with the woman just because she's a female. Like I said, nobody really knows what happened. I will admit I find her version of the story hard to believe.

The reality is the truth is probably somewhere in the middle and they're both lying to a certain extent.

Ok ... so perhaps there was a little bit of a shady sexual transgression here? Like I said, she is irrelevant cause she does not play for the knicks.

"Shady sexual transgression" is a loaded term. One person's definition of a "transgression" could be another person's definition of just being kinky. Is an orgie a transgression or just kinky? But yes, he probably did something he shouldn't have done. Whether it was illegal is another story. Being a sleaze or a jerk is not a crime.

pushing your girl really hard to have your nasty boys included in itself (to me) is a transgression.

Everybody has their boundaries. Someone else's boundaries may not be in line with your's or mine's. If it's not illegal and it's consensual, who are we to judge?

everything is grey (I guess) and we are all judges. How would you judge what would be ok for your daughter or your sister? How would you feel if your daughter was being heavily pressured to take on 3 or 4 athletes at a time?

I would hate it. I also wouldn't be objective which is why you don't have the family members of either party on the jury. If she's an adult what can can I do about the decisions she makes? I mean, I believe the woman is 30, correct? Not some barely legal co-ed.
ESOMKnicks
Posts: 20340
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/14/2015
Member: #6064

9/19/2016  11:43 AM    LAST EDITED: 9/19/2016  11:44 AM
mreinman wrote:
pushing your girl really hard to have your nasty boys included in itself (to me) is a transgression.

Well, just asking for something aint never hurt nobody. She was free to refuse and dump him if his requests became too uncomfortable.

Welpee
Posts: 21618
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239

9/19/2016  11:45 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:There seems to be a hideous double standard here. Athletes are expected to be "morally reprehensible people", that's what I can gather reading these last few pages, and any woman attempting to have a relationship with said athlete know going in that's what is to be expected. Just spread your legs and be a loose whore, you asked for it!

No. Big phucking time No. It doesn't matter if Jane Doe is a stripper, prostitute, or Porn Star for a living.

If she was drunk, passed out, intoxicated or incoherent for even 1% or 1 second when there was 3 big black coks in the room, IT DOES NOT MEAN CONSENT to her holes!

Does nobody here have any daughters, for chrissakes!!!!

People actually posting biased articles or link to bootleg websites to try to rationalize scumbag lowlife Rose behavior that night....WHO THE PHUCK CARES THAT HE'S ON THE KNICKS?

Rape is Rape. It's bad enough that we have endure this bad morally inept character for 1 year...

Who is arguing pro-rape? And yes, if you're living a provocative lifestyle I'm more incline to believe you would consent to such an act. But you're right, rape is rape, but I don't know who you think is not saying that?
mreinman
Posts: 37827
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/14/2010
Member: #3189

9/19/2016  11:48 AM
ESOMKnicks wrote:
mreinman wrote:
pushing your girl really hard to have your nasty boys included in itself (to me) is a transgression.

Well, just asking for something aint never hurt nobody. She was free to refuse and dump him if his requests became too uncomfortable.

actually, we don't know if she was "free" to refuse.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
To those Knicks fans dismissing Rose's rape case...

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.com All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.