Kemet wrote:

Nalod wrote:Every one makes mistakes in sports management.
The thing is, would Crowder been able to develop as he did in boston?
And yes, what if moved down in the draft and not taken KP?
Hindsight is easy. EVERY TEAM MAKES MISTAKES.

Everyone makes mistakes .. but if his name wasnt the ZEN Phil Jackson he would have been FIRED before the first season ended.
Phil turned a 37 win season Knicks team into a LOTTERY 17 win season Knicks team.

And last season if his name wasnt the Zen Phil Jackson, he would have been fired before Derek Fisher were Fired.

Your making the assumption the owner is not on board with whats going on. He is the one that fires Phil.
This team needed a rebuild and New york needed a person with cred to deliver it.
Even if you fired the guy, then what? You still have the same asset base to build on.

The assumption that Tyson was some great trade asset is really interesting.
No doubt Crowder would have been a nice asset in hindsight. One can say perhaps that Cleanthony might have developed better on another team? Change the circumstances, change the outcome.
Kudo's to Phil for manning up here and admitting.

Nalod wrote:

Kemet wrote:

Nalod wrote:Every one makes mistakes in sports management.
The thing is, would Crowder been able to develop as he did in boston?
And yes, what if moved down in the draft and not taken KP?
Hindsight is easy. EVERY TEAM MAKES MISTAKES.

Everyone makes mistakes .. but if his name wasnt the ZEN Phil Jackson he would have been FIRED before the first season ended.
Phil turned a 37 win season Knicks team into a LOTTERY 17 win season Knicks team.

And last season if his name wasnt the Zen Phil Jackson, he would have been fired before Derek Fisher were Fired.

Your making the assumption the owner is not on board with whats going on. He is the one that fires Phil.
This team needed a rebuild and New york needed a person with cred to deliver it.
Even if you fired the guy, then what? You still have the same asset base to build on.

The assumption that Tyson was some great trade asset is really interesting.
No doubt Crowder would have been a nice asset in hindsight. One can say perhaps that Cleanthony might have developed better on another team? Change the circumstances, change the outcome.
Kudo's to Phil for manning up here and admitting.

Truth be said .. Phil or DOLAN never should have traded Tyson Chandler in June 2014 draft night!
Especially when Melo declared going to the 2014 FA market as early as Oct 2013.
Plus Amare contract end 2014 offseason .. The Tyson trade to Dallas were a big RED-FLAG!

The best Tyson Chandler and Felton trade at that time were with the Boston Celtricks Ainge for Rondo and ???
Phil or Dolan should've went straight after Pau Gasol on July 1 2014. if they were going to trade Tyson Chandlor.

Today im wondering ...If Phil or Dolan knew they had a 60% chance of signing Joakim Noah in the offseason during the month of June .. then why would Phil or Dolan make a idiot move in TRADING our best big-Man Robin Lopez plus our other upcoming rookie that like to slash to the hoop as a quick combo-guard to the Bulls organization for a 5 year injury-prone Derek Rose?
Note Reminder: the Bulls signed 7.0 Pau Gasol to TANDEM along side Joakim Noah in the frontcourt to have a 50 win Bulls season plus the Bigman-Tandem took them to 2nd round of the playoff.
NOW ...
If we really wanted our 7.3 rookie KP to learn how to be a proficient NBA Big-Man on both sides of the court plus become a early NBA All-Star .. Then Phil and Dolan shouldve been thinking about KP growth by having both Noah & Lopez in Knicks uniforms working side by side KP in every practice for two or more seasons. KP couldn't ask for better veteran work-out partners-teammates in his career.

We can always look back and redo history. Im not bent out of shape for trading Tyson or what we got in return. Could we have done better? Of course, in hindsight everybody is a genius.

knickscity wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Kemet wrote:

Nalod wrote:Every one makes mistakes in sports management.
The thing is, would Crowder been able to develop as he did in boston?
And yes, what if moved down in the draft and not taken KP?
Hindsight is easy. EVERY TEAM MAKES MISTAKES.

Everyone makes mistakes .. but if his name wasnt the ZEN Phil Jackson he would have been FIRED before the first season ended.
Phil turned a 37 win season Knicks team into a LOTTERY 17 win season Knicks team.

Which got us KP, what a disaster that turned out to be!

Nope, what got us KP was falling into the 4th spot. We were slated for the 2nd pick and KP would NOT have been drafted there.

assumption was if we won more games, we could have picked 5th, or even lower.

knickscity wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knickscity wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Kemet wrote:

Nalod wrote:Every one makes mistakes in sports management.
The thing is, would Crowder been able to develop as he did in boston?
And yes, what if moved down in the draft and not taken KP?
Hindsight is easy. EVERY TEAM MAKES MISTAKES.

Everyone makes mistakes .. but if his name wasnt the ZEN Phil Jackson he would have been FIRED before the first season ended.
Phil turned a 37 win season Knicks team into a LOTTERY 17 win season Knicks team.

Which got us KP, what a disaster that turned out to be!

Nope, what got us KP was falling into the 4th spot. We were slated for the 2nd pick and KP would NOT have been drafted there.

assumption was if we won more games, we could have picked 5th, or even lower.

Talking about from the time from near the end of the season. The team was in a major free fall, the Knicks were running neck and neck with worst in the league. They were not passing on Towns and Okafor to draft KP had they drafted higher.

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knickscity wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Kemet wrote:

Nalod wrote:Every one makes mistakes in sports management.
The thing is, would Crowder been able to develop as he did in boston?
And yes, what if moved down in the draft and not taken KP?
Hindsight is easy. EVERY TEAM MAKES MISTAKES.

Everyone makes mistakes .. but if his name wasnt the ZEN Phil Jackson he would have been FIRED before the first season ended.
Phil turned a 37 win season Knicks team into a LOTTERY 17 win season Knicks team.

Which got us KP, what a disaster that turned out to be!

Nope, what got us KP was falling into the 4th spot. We were slated for the 2nd pick and KP would NOT have been drafted there.

assumption was if we won more games, we could have picked 5th, or even lower.

Talking about from the time from near the end of the season. The team was in a major free fall, the Knicks were running neck and neck with worst in the league. They were not passing on Towns and Okafor to draft KP had they drafted higher.

I actually believe Phil was looking at Towns, KP or WCS. EVERYTHING he talked about fit those players and not OK4. He literally described the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of OK4 when he talked about what kind of big man he wanted. Also Clarence Gaines was adamant that the kid to pick PERIOD was KP and Phil totally trusts Gaines. At this point it's irrelevant cuz he took KP at #4 and we're all happy about it so far. Let's just be happy we had some good fortune for a change.

Absolutely happy KP is a Knick, but despite Phil's descriptions those above mentioned players are all different. Okafor is that "big butt" in the low post Phil likes so he definitely was in the mix depending on where we picked.

Jackson was asked if it was more important for a big man in his system to be a dominant defender or a strong offensive player.
“Gotta have a defender,” Jackson said. “… That’s a good starting point — a guy like Tyson Chandler (whom the Knicks traded over the summer) is the defensive backup that we have to have. In this day and age in our game, there are so many screen and rolls, so many 3-point shooters, so many things that a player of size has to (do). Not only cover the paint and protect the basket but he has to be able to step out defensively and play a guard. And do some defensive work on the extreme part of the floor so it’s very important that that player have defensive capabilities.”

This fits KAT, WCS and KP but not OK4. This is why I said what I did above.