nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Too many chuckers for him to average 20, so I'll be happy with valuing each shot attempt over volume. If he improves his TS% and efficiency, that's a better barometer than his per game averages.

I'd like for him to up his rebounds, up his assists, up his blocks, and average a healthy steal a game. If he does the little things first, the offense will come later as he continues to mature, and the chuckers are all gone.

Better to be a true 2 way player, a true all around player, then worrying about bucket making in year 2. The true greats of the game work on excelling in all facets of the game, not just putting the ball up.

Where are the chuckers on this roster, are you talking about Melo and Rose,2 players who have been playing with avg to below avg talent around them. You only chuck, when everyone around you sucks.

Every one on the Olympic team chucks because they are the best players on their respective team. When you surrounded by talent, you eventually come to the realization that you don't have to shoot as much, which rose has said a 100 times since the trade.

If you rotate your scorers correctly, they will have opportunities. Unlike fisher and rambis who would take out kp, melo, and afflalo all at once, which was flat out stupid.

There isn't a person on this board that would continue to pass the ball if there teammates continue to brick shots and turn the ball over

so it's a safe bet you would agree that neither melo or rose makes others around him better? can't have it both ways.

Rose may not have had a lot of assists but he did pass the ball at a reasonable rate. I expect that Rose will increase his assists from 5 to 8 a game with this roster. A lot of what leads to assists is the players around you. Rose will have more guys who will look to catch and shoot and be more likely to make those shots.

                                                               Passes
Player	                Team	GP	W	L	MIN     Made  AST
Rajon Rondo             SAC	71	29	42	35.4	74.2  11.7
Deron Williams          DAL	65	31	34	32.4	71.5   5.8
John Wall               WAS	77	37	40	36.2	70.9  10.2
Kemba Walker            CHA	81	47	34	35.6	66.6   5.2
Kyle Lowry              TOR	76	53	23	36.9	65.7   6.4
Ish Smith               PHI	77	16	61	29.1	64.2   6.5
Goran Dragic            MIA	72	44	28	32.8	62.9   5.8 
Jarrett Jack            BKN	32	10	22	32.1	62.8   7.4
Mike Conley             MEM	56	33	23	31.4	62.0   6.1
Chris Paul              LAC	74	50	24	32.7	61.9  10.0 
Ricky Rubio             MIN	76	28	48	30.6	61.9   8.7
Eric Bledsoe            PHX	31	12	19	34.2	61.1   6.8
Damian Lillard          POR	75	40	35	35.7	60.1   6.1
Tyreke Evans            NOP	25	11	14	30.6	59.6   6.6
Isaiah Thomas           BOS	81	47	34	32.2	59.3   6.2
Jose Calderon           NYK	72	29	43	28.1	59.2   4.1
Russell Westbrook       OKC	80	55	25	34.4	58.6  10.4
Elfrid Payton           ORL	72	32	40	29.5	58.1   6.4
George Hill             IND	74	41	33	34.1	57.7   3.5
Stephen Curry           GSW	79	71	8	34.2	56.8   6.7
Brandon Knight          PHX	52	16	36	36.0	56.3   5.2
Michael Carter-Williams MIL	54	21	33	30.5	55.8   5.2
Derrick Rose            CHI	66	32	34	31.8	55.0   4.7
Tony Parker             SAS	72	59	13	27.5	53.8   5.3 

http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/passing/?sort=PASSES_MADE&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=G

have you sorted for points created off of assists? it's a sobering revelation. i suggest you have a look.

If Kristaps duplicates his stats from his rookie year that's still great because we are putting out a better overall product. You can expect Rose to get about 16pts per game. You can expect Noah and Lee to get around 10pts per. Melo is still a 20pt a game scorer.... Kristaps by default should be able to handle more minutes than his rookie year. His numbers should improve accordingly, but as I said, 14/7 with 2 blocks a game would be just fine with this group

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Too many chuckers for him to average 20, so I'll be happy with valuing each shot attempt over volume. If he improves his TS% and efficiency, that's a better barometer than his per game averages.

I'd like for him to up his rebounds, up his assists, up his blocks, and average a healthy steal a game. If he does the little things first, the offense will come later as he continues to mature, and the chuckers are all gone.

Better to be a true 2 way player, a true all around player, then worrying about bucket making in year 2. The true greats of the game work on excelling in all facets of the game, not just putting the ball up.

Where are the chuckers on this roster, are you talking about Melo and Rose,2 players who have been playing with avg to below avg talent around them. You only chuck, when everyone around you sucks.

Every one on the Olympic team chucks because they are the best players on their respective team. When you surrounded by talent, you eventually come to the realization that you don't have to shoot as much, which rose has said a 100 times since the trade.

If you rotate your scorers correctly, they will have opportunities. Unlike fisher and rambis who would take out kp, melo, and afflalo all at once, which was flat out stupid.

There isn't a person on this board that would continue to pass the ball if there teammates continue to brick shots and turn the ball over

so it's a safe bet you would agree that neither melo or rose makes others around him better? can't have it both ways.

Rose may not have had a lot of assists but he did pass the ball at a reasonable rate. I expect that Rose will increase his assists from 5 to 8 a game with this roster. A lot of what leads to assists is the players around you. Rose will have more guys who will look to catch and shoot and be more likely to make those shots.

                                                               Passes
Player	                Team	GP	W	L	MIN     Made  AST
Rajon Rondo             SAC	71	29	42	35.4	74.2  11.7
Deron Williams          DAL	65	31	34	32.4	71.5   5.8
John Wall               WAS	77	37	40	36.2	70.9  10.2
Kemba Walker            CHA	81	47	34	35.6	66.6   5.2
Kyle Lowry              TOR	76	53	23	36.9	65.7   6.4
Ish Smith               PHI	77	16	61	29.1	64.2   6.5
Goran Dragic            MIA	72	44	28	32.8	62.9   5.8 
Jarrett Jack            BKN	32	10	22	32.1	62.8   7.4
Mike Conley             MEM	56	33	23	31.4	62.0   6.1
Chris Paul              LAC	74	50	24	32.7	61.9  10.0 
Ricky Rubio             MIN	76	28	48	30.6	61.9   8.7
Eric Bledsoe            PHX	31	12	19	34.2	61.1   6.8
Damian Lillard          POR	75	40	35	35.7	60.1   6.1
Tyreke Evans            NOP	25	11	14	30.6	59.6   6.6
Isaiah Thomas           BOS	81	47	34	32.2	59.3   6.2
Jose Calderon           NYK	72	29	43	28.1	59.2   4.1
Russell Westbrook       OKC	80	55	25	34.4	58.6  10.4
Elfrid Payton           ORL	72	32	40	29.5	58.1   6.4
George Hill             IND	74	41	33	34.1	57.7   3.5
Stephen Curry           GSW	79	71	8	34.2	56.8   6.7
Brandon Knight          PHX	52	16	36	36.0	56.3   5.2
Michael Carter-Williams MIL	54	21	33	30.5	55.8   5.2
Derrick Rose            CHI	66	32	34	31.8	55.0   4.7
Tony Parker             SAS	72	59	13	27.5	53.8   5.3 

http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/passing/?sort=PASSES_MADE&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=G

have you sorted for points created off of assists? it's a sobering revelation. i suggest you have a look.

If a player misses a wide open shot, is that the is passer fault..

If the passer doesn't use timing, touch, and accuracy then it's a bad pass and the shooter misses it's the passer'S fault.

You really think Rose can't pass the ball to KP or Melo or Lee or anyone effectively? No, Rose isn't CP3 but he can pass the ball.

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Too many chuckers for him to average 20, so I'll be happy with valuing each shot attempt over volume. If he improves his TS% and efficiency, that's a better barometer than his per game averages.

I'd like for him to up his rebounds, up his assists, up his blocks, and average a healthy steal a game. If he does the little things first, the offense will come later as he continues to mature, and the chuckers are all gone.

Better to be a true 2 way player, a true all around player, then worrying about bucket making in year 2. The true greats of the game work on excelling in all facets of the game, not just putting the ball up.

Where are the chuckers on this roster, are you talking about Melo and Rose,2 players who have been playing with avg to below avg talent around them. You only chuck, when everyone around you sucks.

Every one on the Olympic team chucks because they are the best players on their respective team. When you surrounded by talent, you eventually come to the realization that you don't have to shoot as much, which rose has said a 100 times since the trade.

If you rotate your scorers correctly, they will have opportunities. Unlike fisher and rambis who would take out kp, melo, and afflalo all at once, which was flat out stupid.

There isn't a person on this board that would continue to pass the ball if there teammates continue to brick shots and turn the ball over

so it's a safe bet you would agree that neither melo or rose makes others around him better? can't have it both ways.

Rose may not have had a lot of assists but he did pass the ball at a reasonable rate. I expect that Rose will increase his assists from 5 to 8 a game with this roster. A lot of what leads to assists is the players around you. Rose will have more guys who will look to catch and shoot and be more likely to make those shots.

                                                               Passes
Player	                Team	GP	W	L	MIN     Made  AST
Rajon Rondo             SAC	71	29	42	35.4	74.2  11.7
Deron Williams          DAL	65	31	34	32.4	71.5   5.8
John Wall               WAS	77	37	40	36.2	70.9  10.2
Kemba Walker            CHA	81	47	34	35.6	66.6   5.2
Kyle Lowry              TOR	76	53	23	36.9	65.7   6.4
Ish Smith               PHI	77	16	61	29.1	64.2   6.5
Goran Dragic            MIA	72	44	28	32.8	62.9   5.8 
Jarrett Jack            BKN	32	10	22	32.1	62.8   7.4
Mike Conley             MEM	56	33	23	31.4	62.0   6.1
Chris Paul              LAC	74	50	24	32.7	61.9  10.0 
Ricky Rubio             MIN	76	28	48	30.6	61.9   8.7
Eric Bledsoe            PHX	31	12	19	34.2	61.1   6.8
Damian Lillard          POR	75	40	35	35.7	60.1   6.1
Tyreke Evans            NOP	25	11	14	30.6	59.6   6.6
Isaiah Thomas           BOS	81	47	34	32.2	59.3   6.2
Jose Calderon           NYK	72	29	43	28.1	59.2   4.1
Russell Westbrook       OKC	80	55	25	34.4	58.6  10.4
Elfrid Payton           ORL	72	32	40	29.5	58.1   6.4
George Hill             IND	74	41	33	34.1	57.7   3.5
Stephen Curry           GSW	79	71	8	34.2	56.8   6.7
Brandon Knight          PHX	52	16	36	36.0	56.3   5.2
Michael Carter-Williams MIL	54	21	33	30.5	55.8   5.2
Derrick Rose            CHI	66	32	34	31.8	55.0   4.7
Tony Parker             SAS	72	59	13	27.5	53.8   5.3 

http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/passing/?sort=PASSES_MADE&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=G

have you sorted for points created off of assists? it's a sobering revelation. i suggest you have a look.

If a player misses a wide open shot, is that the is passer fault..

If the passer doesn't use timing, touch, and accuracy then it's a bad pass and the shooter misses it's the passer'S fault.

You really think Rose can't pass the ball to KP or Melo or Lee or anyone effectively? No, Rose isn't CP3 but he can pass the ball.

passing the ball with accuracy, timing, and touch is a specialized skill and perhaps innate in terms of hand-eye coordination. chris paul came into the league with that skill and i could see from two possessions that he was going to be a great player, even if he was pudgy at the time. chris paul also happens to be an effective defender, so it is clear he had the benefit of good if not great coaching.

rose has never really had to work on his passing as he was conveyor-belted through aau, one and done, and to the nba. he is a victim of bad coaching, almost a certainty in the conveyor belt culture. now that he can't be as physical it may well be too late for him to develop that specialized basketball skill.

i can tell a good pass from a bad one and a good shot from a bad one and i can tell good defense from bad defense. i was coached well. players and fans who have not been coached well have a hard time discerning the difference. when the season starts i will point out to you when he has made a bad pass and when he has made a good one, when he has taken a bad shot and when good, and when he has played bad defense and good. then we can take a look at your interpretation of the stats you are presently hammering home and see if they have validity when the rubber actually meets the road. you participate in game threads don't you? i have invited others who don't see things my way to show up in game threads but they have been no-shows, maybe because they are not actual new yorkers or maybe because they're chyckynshyt.

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Too many chuckers for him to average 20, so I'll be happy with valuing each shot attempt over volume. If he improves his TS% and efficiency, that's a better barometer than his per game averages.

I'd like for him to up his rebounds, up his assists, up his blocks, and average a healthy steal a game. If he does the little things first, the offense will come later as he continues to mature, and the chuckers are all gone.

Better to be a true 2 way player, a true all around player, then worrying about bucket making in year 2. The true greats of the game work on excelling in all facets of the game, not just putting the ball up.

Where are the chuckers on this roster, are you talking about Melo and Rose,2 players who have been playing with avg to below avg talent around them. You only chuck, when everyone around you sucks.

Every one on the Olympic team chucks because they are the best players on their respective team. When you surrounded by talent, you eventually come to the realization that you don't have to shoot as much, which rose has said a 100 times since the trade.

If you rotate your scorers correctly, they will have opportunities. Unlike fisher and rambis who would take out kp, melo, and afflalo all at once, which was flat out stupid.

There isn't a person on this board that would continue to pass the ball if there teammates continue to brick shots and turn the ball over

so it's a safe bet you would agree that neither melo or rose makes others around him better? can't have it both ways.

Rose may not have had a lot of assists but he did pass the ball at a reasonable rate. I expect that Rose will increase his assists from 5 to 8 a game with this roster. A lot of what leads to assists is the players around you. Rose will have more guys who will look to catch and shoot and be more likely to make those shots.

                                                               Passes
Player	                Team	GP	W	L	MIN     Made  AST
Rajon Rondo             SAC	71	29	42	35.4	74.2  11.7
Deron Williams          DAL	65	31	34	32.4	71.5   5.8
John Wall               WAS	77	37	40	36.2	70.9  10.2
Kemba Walker            CHA	81	47	34	35.6	66.6   5.2
Kyle Lowry              TOR	76	53	23	36.9	65.7   6.4
Ish Smith               PHI	77	16	61	29.1	64.2   6.5
Goran Dragic            MIA	72	44	28	32.8	62.9   5.8 
Jarrett Jack            BKN	32	10	22	32.1	62.8   7.4
Mike Conley             MEM	56	33	23	31.4	62.0   6.1
Chris Paul              LAC	74	50	24	32.7	61.9  10.0 
Ricky Rubio             MIN	76	28	48	30.6	61.9   8.7
Eric Bledsoe            PHX	31	12	19	34.2	61.1   6.8
Damian Lillard          POR	75	40	35	35.7	60.1   6.1
Tyreke Evans            NOP	25	11	14	30.6	59.6   6.6
Isaiah Thomas           BOS	81	47	34	32.2	59.3   6.2
Jose Calderon           NYK	72	29	43	28.1	59.2   4.1
Russell Westbrook       OKC	80	55	25	34.4	58.6  10.4
Elfrid Payton           ORL	72	32	40	29.5	58.1   6.4
George Hill             IND	74	41	33	34.1	57.7   3.5
Stephen Curry           GSW	79	71	8	34.2	56.8   6.7
Brandon Knight          PHX	52	16	36	36.0	56.3   5.2
Michael Carter-Williams MIL	54	21	33	30.5	55.8   5.2
Derrick Rose            CHI	66	32	34	31.8	55.0   4.7
Tony Parker             SAS	72	59	13	27.5	53.8   5.3 

http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/passing/?sort=PASSES_MADE&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=G

have you sorted for points created off of assists? it's a sobering revelation. i suggest you have a look.

If a player misses a wide open shot, is that the is passer fault..

If the passer doesn't use timing, touch, and accuracy then it's a bad pass and the shooter misses it's the passer'S fault.

You really think Rose can't pass the ball to KP or Melo or Lee or anyone effectively? No, Rose isn't CP3 but he can pass the ball.

passing the ball with accuracy, timing, and touch is a specialized skill and perhaps innate in terms of hand-eye coordination. chris paul came into the league with that skill and i could see from two possessions that he was going to be a great player, even if he was pudgy at the time. chris paul also happens to be an effective defender, so it is clear he had the benefit of good if not great coaching.

rose has never really had to work on his passing as he was conveyor-belted through aau, one and done, and to the nba. he is a victim of bad coaching, almost a certainty in the conveyor belt culture. now that he can't be as physical it may well be too late for him to develop that specialized basketball skill.

i can tell a good pass from a bad one and a good shot from a bad one and i can tell good defense from bad defense. i was coached well. players and fans who have not been coached well have a hard time discerning the difference. when the season starts i will point out to you when he has made a bad pass and when he has made a good one, when he has taken a bad shot and when good, and when he has played bad defense and good. then we can take a look at your interpretation of the stats you are presently hammering home and see if they have validity when the rubber actually meets the road. you participate in game threads don't you? i have invited others who don't see things my way to show up in game threads but they have been no-shows, maybe because they are not actual new yorkers or maybe because they're chyckynshyt.

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:More video of how Derrick Rose well play... this time exclusively about how he passes the ball..... yet somehow he's not going to improve the team

I'm just tired of the BS. I don't just pull ish out of my ass. I at least back up what i'm saying with stats and videos or quotes. I get tons of grief over the years because of season predictions as if that's everything we talk about, when it's not.

KP is going to benefit from playing with Rose and other vets. It's beyond stupid to think a talent like KP won't benefit from playing with guys that have won in this league. These players will make the game easier for KP and he will make things easier for them. All anyone has to do is go look at how the Bulls played in the playoffs when Rose was playing and how hard they played. They played as a team and so why in the hell would these guys suddenly not do those things when they finally have a talent like KP out there with them???

WHY? Players want to win and when they win that 1st game they're gonna be pumped to win again and to keep winning. Rose, Melo and KP are this team's Big 3 and they are fully aware of how important it is for KP to excel and fully blossom as a player. No one is going to do anything to retard KP's progress.

talk is cheap, including yours... but usage rates are a real thing. rose and melo are going to have to reduce their usage rates, rose to below 25% and melo, who FINALLY got his usage rate below 30% while becoming a great playmaker for 25 games, melo also needs to continue to whittle his usage rate down to about 28%. that way porzingis (and lee) is given an opportunity to raise his usage to around 28%. these usages-- along with taking fewer bad shots from all three-- will yield positive results, the inevitable injuries notwithstanding.

i don't need to see highlight reels of rose passing the ball. i have seen him play plenty enough to know that he dominates the ball, puts up difficult shots, and has never learned to maintain his dribble, even as he chronically leaves his feet to pass the ball, resulting in passes that lack timing, touch, and accuracy, and which drive down the shooting percentages of teammates. call it marburyitis. when you force a catch and shoot player to have to gather an errant pass, precious milliseconds are added to the act, and results in rushed shots because the defense has extra time to get there. when a player gets a pass in HIS rhythm, you don't have that problem.

rose doesn't make others around him better with his passing for this reason. sure, he accumulates some assists, but if you look at the chart you provided and assort for points generated from passes, rose ranks near the bottom of the league among starters.

http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/passing/?sort=AST_POINTS_CREATED&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=G

knicks1248 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Too many chuckers for him to average 20, so I'll be happy with valuing each shot attempt over volume. If he improves his TS% and efficiency, that's a better barometer than his per game averages.

I'd like for him to up his rebounds, up his assists, up his blocks, and average a healthy steal a game. If he does the little things first, the offense will come later as he continues to mature, and the chuckers are all gone.

Better to be a true 2 way player, a true all around player, then worrying about bucket making in year 2. The true greats of the game work on excelling in all facets of the game, not just putting the ball up.

Where are the chuckers on this roster, are you talking about Melo and Rose,2 players who have been playing with avg to below avg talent around them. You only chuck, when everyone around you sucks.

Every one on the Olympic team chucks because they are the best players on their respective team. When you surrounded by talent, you eventually come to the realization that you don't have to shoot as much, which rose has said a 100 times since the trade.

If you rotate your scorers correctly, they will have opportunities. Unlike fisher and rambis who would take out kp, melo, and afflalo all at once, which was flat out stupid.

There isn't a person on this board that would continue to pass the ball if there teammates continue to brick shots and turn the ball over

My highest scoring game in the last year I played competitive hoops was 34 points on 10 made three's (only missed one) and 2 driving layups. Had a bunch of subs playing (regular team all away) who couldn't tie their own shoelaces. I passed the ball twice in the game, and that was just to maintain appearances. We lost by 30.

When you got nobody to pass the ball to without it being a turnover, you shoot.

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:More video of how Derrick Rose well play... this time exclusively about how he passes the ball..... yet somehow he's not going to improve the team

I'm just tired of the BS. I don't just pull ish out of my ass. I at least back up what i'm saying with stats and videos or quotes. I get tons of grief over the years because of season predictions as if that's everything we talk about, when it's not.

KP is going to benefit from playing with Rose and other vets. It's beyond stupid to think a talent like KP won't benefit from playing with guys that have won in this league. These players will make the game easier for KP and he will make things easier for them. All anyone has to do is go look at how the Bulls played in the playoffs when Rose was playing and how hard they played. They played as a team and so why in the hell would these guys suddenly not do those things when they finally have a talent like KP out there with them???

WHY? Players want to win and when they win that 1st game they're gonna be pumped to win again and to keep winning. Rose, Melo and KP are this team's Big 3 and they are fully aware of how important it is for KP to excel and fully blossom as a player. No one is going to do anything to retard KP's progress.

talk is cheap, including yours... but usage rates are a real thing. rose and melo are going to have to reduce their usage rates, rose to below 25% and melo, who FINALLY got his usage rate below 30% while becoming a great playmaker for 25 games, melo also needs to continue to whittle his usage rate down to about 28%. that way porzingis (and lee) is given an opportunity to raise his usage to around 28%. these usages-- along with taking fewer bad shots from all three-- will yield positive results, the inevitable injuries notwithstanding.

i don't need to see highlight reels of rose passing the ball. i have seen him play plenty enough to know that he dominates the ball, puts up difficult shots, and has never learned to maintain his dribble, even as he chronically leaves his feet to pass the ball, resulting in passes that lack timing, touch, and accuracy, and which drive down the shooting percentages of teammates. call it marburyitis. when you force a catch and shoot player to have to gather an errant pass, precious milliseconds are added to the act, and results in rushed shots because the defense has extra time to get there. when a player gets a pass in HIS rhythm, you don't have that problem.

rose doesn't make others around him better with his passing for this reason. sure, he accumulates some assists, but if you look at the chart you provided and assort for points generated from passes, rose ranks near the bottom of the league among starters.

http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/passing/?sort=AST_POINTS_CREATED&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=G

Secondly the Usage Rate argument is pure BS. Rose pre injuries was getting better at the technical parts of his game all the while his Usage Rate was high. his Assist Rate went up so really this is evidence that he can pass effectively. He did it before and he can do it again.

Season  Age  Tm  Lg  Pos G  MP  PER  TS%  3PAr FTr  ORB% DRB% TRB% AST%  STL%  BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/48 OBPM DBPM BPM  VORP
2008-09	20   CHI NBA PG	81 3000	16.0 .516 .060 .207 3.7	 8.4  6.1  28.8  1.1   0.4  13.3  22.6  3.4  1.5  4.9  .078  0.9  -1.5 -0.6 1.1
2009-10 ★21 CHI	 NBA PG	78 2871	18.6 .532 .044 .246 2.6	 8.7  5.7  30.3  1.0   0.7  12.5  27.2	3.5  2.5  6.0  .100  1.7  -1.3  0.5 1.8
2010-11 ★22 CHI	 NBA PG	81 3026	23.5 .550 .241 .348 3.2  9.4  6.4  38.7  1.5   1.3  13.1  32.2	8.3  4.8  13.1 .208  5.8   0.1	5.9 6.0
2011-12 ★23 CHI NBA PG	39 1375	23.0 .532 .249 .344 2.1	 8.4  5.3  40.3	 1.4   1.4  12.9  30.5	4.1  2.0  6.0  .211  5.5  -0.6	4.9 2.4

ChuckBuck wrote:Not sure what's the argument about Rose, he's not a great passer. PERIOD.

dk7th is absolutely correct, no matter what a highlight video says. Guy stops his dribble too soon, leaves his feet and does jump passes too frequently, doesn't always see the whole floor, has tunnel vision on his drives to the hoop...I mean there was friction with Jimmy Butler for a reason. Dude's played 7 years in the NBA and still isn't a polished point guard nor an efficient scoring combo guard. Regressed each and every season since 2011 MVP not including the games he missed due to fractured punani.

I addressed the Jimmy Butler thing before. I think Rose is a much better fit with a SG like Lee who is more of a Catch and Shoot player. You can see below how Lee is a better fit next to Rose since he is a proven Catch and Shoot guard. He doesn't need to raise his Usage as dk7th suggests either.

Jimmy Butler
General Range	GP	G	Freq	FGM	FGA	FG%	eFG%	Freq	2FGM	2FGA	2FG%	Freq	3PM	3PA	3P%
Catch and Shoot	67	62	17.8%	0.9	2.8	34.2	44.3	5.7%	0.4	0.9	44.1	12.1%	0.6	1.9	29.6
Pull Ups	67	67	37.8%	2.1	5.8	36.3	39.5	30.5%	1.8	4.7	37.1	7.4%	0.4	1.1	32.9
Less than 10 ft	67	67	42.6%	3.9	6.6	58.6	58.6	42.6%	3.9	6.6	58.6	0.0%	0.0	0.0	-
Other	        67	18	1.8%	0.1	0.3	36.8	42.1	1.4%	0.1	0.2	35.7	0.5%	0.0	0.1	40.0
Courtney Lee
General Range	GP	G	Freq	FGM	FGA	FG%	eFG%	Freq	2FGM	2FGA	2FG%	Freq	3PM	3PA	3P%
Catch and Shoot	79	75	40.5%	1.3	3.3	40.5	56.2	9.1%	0.3	0.7	41.4	31.5%	1.0	2.5	40.3
Pull Ups	79	74	30.2%	1.0	2.4	42.5	42.7	28.3%	1.0	2.3	44.8	1.9%	0.0	0.1	8.3
Less than 10 ft	79	69	28.3%	1.3	2.3	56.9	56.9	28.3%	1.3	2.3	56.9	0.0%	0.0	0.0	-
Other	        79	5	0.9%	0.0	0.1	0.0	0.0	0.3%	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.6%	0.0	0.1	0.0

dk7th wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:More video of how Derrick Rose well play... this time exclusively about how he passes the ball..... yet somehow he's not going to improve the team

I'm just tired of the BS. I don't just pull ish out of my ass. I at least back up what i'm saying with stats and videos or quotes. I get tons of grief over the years because of season predictions as if that's everything we talk about, when it's not.

KP is going to benefit from playing with Rose and other vets. It's beyond stupid to think a talent like KP won't benefit from playing with guys that have won in this league. These players will make the game easier for KP and he will make things easier for them. All anyone has to do is go look at how the Bulls played in the playoffs when Rose was playing and how hard they played. They played as a team and so why in the hell would these guys suddenly not do those things when they finally have a talent like KP out there with them???

WHY? Players want to win and when they win that 1st game they're gonna be pumped to win again and to keep winning. Rose, Melo and KP are this team's Big 3 and they are fully aware of how important it is for KP to excel and fully blossom as a player. No one is going to do anything to retard KP's progress.

talk is cheap, including yours... but usage rates are a real thing. rose and melo are going to have to reduce their usage rates, rose to below 25% and melo, who FINALLY got his usage rate below 30% while becoming a great playmaker for 25 games, melo also needs to continue to whittle his usage rate down to about 28%. that way porzingis (and lee) is given an opportunity to raise his usage to around 28%. these usages-- along with taking fewer bad shots from all three-- will yield positive results, the inevitable injuries notwithstanding.

i don't need to see highlight reels of rose passing the ball. i have seen him play plenty enough to know that he dominates the ball, puts up difficult shots, and has never learned to maintain his dribble, even as he chronically leaves his feet to pass the ball, resulting in passes that lack timing, touch, and accuracy, and which drive down the shooting percentages of teammates. call it marburyitis. when you force a catch and shoot player to have to gather an errant pass, precious milliseconds are added to the act, and results in rushed shots because the defense has extra time to get there. when a player gets a pass in HIS rhythm, you don't have that problem.

rose doesn't make others around him better with his passing for this reason. sure, he accumulates some assists, but if you look at the chart you provided and assort for points generated from passes, rose ranks near the bottom of the league among starters.

http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/passing/?sort=AST_POINTS_CREATED&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=G

Did the Knicks get better or worse?

they have gotten better, just not enough better. last year i predicted 34 wins, they won 32. espn predicted a laughable 25 wins. this year i predict 38-43 wins, so call it 41 wins. my predictions are more reliable than espn's, but neither me or espn see the knicks making the playoffs unless the knicks become kp6's team-- by edict of hrnacek and jackson-- and rose, melo, and noah promote that agenda. that's the shortest route to winning. sadly, it does not look like it will go that way.