Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

wallstbear wrote:Openly criticize a teammate for getting a high offer isn't a very noble thing to do, is it?

GustavBahler wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:This is called deflection.

This post is about that teams epic failure prior to Lin arriving, winning and the jealously that followed. Not Dantoni's career record

Yeah exactly. If we're going to talk about MDA's record in recent years, we should be talking about the records of everyone involved in the story (Melo, Amare, Lin) etc. Or we could just focus on the actual story. We shouldn't scrutinize MDA's records and ignore the other people's though.

As far as I know, Melo and Amare haven't given interviews lately trashing D'Antoni. I don't believe someone who has had very little success in this league for the last 8 years, in part because of his inflexibilty, should be talking negatively about anyone. Not sure why you guys think thats ok, regardless of what you think about Lin, Amare, or Melo.

Even if what MDA says reflects poorly on his character, that doesn't invalidate his points. Maybe MDA is a mean person but that's a separate topic and one that shouldn't matter to Knicks fans since he's not part of the team.

Character matters IMO when that coach starts lobbing accusations. Melo flew to Vegas to recruit Lin if I recall, dont know about Stat. And this was to recruit a player who had shown something only for a few weeks, really. For a future HOFer, All Star, to do that was a sign of great respect. How much more was he supposed to do?

Of course not; I mean what kind of person would criticize someone who apparently got incredibly overpaid for what amounted to a 2 week performance? Especially since said teammate went on to have a great HOF-level career...backing up Toney Douglass and Patrick Beverly.

Nobility....i'll have to remember that concept while I re-read all the posting about Melo's embarrassingly ridiculous Max contract.

Oh that's right, nobility only applies to teammates...

huh? You shouldn't publicly criticize any co-workers salaries. How much they're overpaid is irrelevant.

This thread is about a former coach passing blame onto his players five years later.

OK, but there are now 4 replies on this related tangent. Clearly the tangent is connected to the topic even though it isn't the main topic. But I'll delete my comment if the other people delete theirs. It doesn't really matter to me.

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

wallstbear wrote:Openly criticize a teammate for getting a high offer isn't a very noble thing to do, is it?

GustavBahler wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:This is called deflection.

This post is about that teams epic failure prior to Lin arriving, winning and the jealously that followed. Not Dantoni's career record

Yeah exactly. If we're going to talk about MDA's record in recent years, we should be talking about the records of everyone involved in the story (Melo, Amare, Lin) etc. Or we could just focus on the actual story. We shouldn't scrutinize MDA's records and ignore the other people's though.

As far as I know, Melo and Amare haven't given interviews lately trashing D'Antoni. I don't believe someone who has had very little success in this league for the last 8 years, in part because of his inflexibilty, should be talking negatively about anyone. Not sure why you guys think thats ok, regardless of what you think about Lin, Amare, or Melo.

Even if what MDA says reflects poorly on his character, that doesn't invalidate his points. Maybe MDA is a mean person but that's a separate topic and one that shouldn't matter to Knicks fans since he's not part of the team.

Character matters IMO when that coach starts lobbing accusations. Melo flew to Vegas to recruit Lin if I recall, dont know about Stat. And this was to recruit a player who had shown something only for a few weeks, really. For a future HOFer, All Star, to do that was a sign of great respect. How much more was he supposed to do?

Of course not; I mean what kind of person would criticize someone who apparently got incredibly overpaid for what amounted to a 2 week performance? Especially since said teammate went on to have a great HOF-level career...backing up Toney Douglass and Patrick Beverly.

Nobility....i'll have to remember that concept while I re-read all the posting about Melo's embarrassingly ridiculous Max contract.

Oh that's right, nobility only applies to teammates...

huh? You shouldn't publicly criticize any co-workers salaries. How much they're overpaid is irrelevant.

This thread is about a former coach passing blame onto his players five years later.

OK, but there are now 4 replies on this related tangent. Clearly the tangent is connected to the topic even though it isn't the main topic. But I'll delete my comment if the other people delete theirs. It doesn't really matter to me.

Not necessary. It just seems the usual villain is pulled into conversations when someone else is being held accountable for their actions.

did you read the article? it's pretty much a transcript. d'antoni, warts and all, is being as diplomatic as can be. he is stating the facts. only people who are prejudiced and petty can spin it into "he threw melo and stat under the bus while refusing to accept blame." fact is he accepted the blame for not being able to solved the puzzle of a team that had two factions in the wake of lin's incredible run.

http://nypost.com/2016/07/13/how-carmelo-amare-pushed-jeremy-lin-out-mike-dantoni/

wallstbear wrote:It's probably safe to say, different people have different views towards the story, due to preexisting conceptions. But if we are rational and civilized human beings, we should be able to boil it down to the bare facts: Lin was having a good stretch, the role players were enjoying it (play time, stats, fun), MDA wanted to go through Lin (not that he has any special affinity towards Lin, but he generally prefers to have PG run the show), Melo and Amare wouldn't want any of that and refuse to go w/ MDA's system.... The rest is history. And no, the poison pill was a minor detail and did not dictate the outcome.

Do we have Melo or Amares side to why they werent comfortable moving at the time? Could it be that Am are didn't want to come off the bench because what player does. And Melo didn't want to bang with 4s. Y is it automatically viewed that it was a coordinated plan to sabotage Lin?

dk7th wrote:There's a clear hierarchy that should be in place on a team. I can fault this coach for a lot of things but I can't fault him for lacking powers he was never given. I don't know how this is not clear.

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:d'antoni haters out in full force, hear what you want to hear, interpret what he is saying how you will. carry on with the useless trolling.

Did you listen to the podcast?

i heard a pretty gracious person who realized he had lost the team and resigned once he realized it. once he saw how well lin did leading the knicks during that stretch, he wanted to make it lin's team and allow lin to play the way he, lin, wanted to play. apparently the adjustments required of melo and amare were too much to ask for the cause of winning or in service of winning, and the writing was on the wall.

argue 20-20 hindsight if you want-- lin gets hurt, lin is just an average player with a brilliant streak, etc. it doesn't cover over the fact that d'antoni wasn't powerful enough to make his players do what he wanted them to do, and it reflects poorly on amare and melo.

I heard it and did not feel that way at all. I heard a guy taking little tey refusedo no accountability to a situation that he could have handled differently and putting it on his players. Either don't go there with Woj or own up to your own mistakes.

He said that with the way Lin ran the team, and the remarkable success the Knicks experienced, that he wanted Melo to move to the 4 and Amare to come off the bench. They refused to do what he asked-- their own coach with a proven record of success at that time-- and he resigned. He noted that when Melo moved to the 4 out of necessity that that made a big difference, vindicating his vision for the team.

He didn't say that the players refused anything. He said they didn't want to. Did Noah want to go to the bench in Chicago? How about Afflalo? Who makes that call? Who has the responsibility for setting the line up?

It amounts to the exact same thing.

Again I disagree. It was D'Antoni's job to change the line up if it was the best thing for the team and team goals.

Suit yourself.

Who gives a ****. Love how people ignore the obvious circumstances and facts but continue talking about some bull **** fantasy of what could have been. This just goes to show what a moron MDA was. He thought it was a good move to put a two week wonder in a higher role than two parenial All Stars. Yeah, that is what most experienced coaches would have done? And why are we still talking about this guy? Lin has gone on to prove all the Lin hard-ons wrong. He sucked in Houston. Sucked in LA. And played and average back up role on a walk year. But everyone is still acting like Lin would have gotten us a chip? Stupid to argue he was worth the money Houston wasted on him. And as for MDA, except for his terrible in game adjustments, non existent defensive framework and total lack of player respect, he was a great coach. Still laugh my ass off every time I think of his time out speeches. The "Nutty Professor".

so what you are saying is that melo and amare were justified in "not wanting to" or "refusing to do" what their coach wanted them to do. cool.

D'Antoni said both players didn't want to change their roles. He didn't say they refused. We know Noah didnt want to come off the bench in Chicago. The guy was the captain and had been the heart and soul of the team. But the 'first year' head coach had him go to the bench because he thought it gave the team the best chance to win. Afflalo didn't want to go to the bench even though it was supposed to balance the second unit. D'Antoni doesn't come off looking good in any of the knick conversation on the podcast. It would have been nice if he took some ownership for things he had control over instead of passing the blame onto his players.

he never had the power you believe he had, just like you believe dolan and melo were not joined at the hip from february 21st 2011 onward. i doubt reality will ever sink in for you on this front. please, do keep clinging to your fantasies. it's fascinating

You are all over the place. First D'Antoni was gracious when he passed blame on his players for his not setting the line up the way he thought would best benefit the team and when he brushed over how much better the Knicks were once he left and cited circumstances changing because of injury and Woodson running the same sets. Now you are saying that he wasn't allowed to set his line ups or choose how his team played because of the owner? Come on now. Dolan outbid the Bulls for Mike. The Knicks drafted specific to his system and often took less talented players, they waived and traded guys he didn't want etc. The guy didn't present as having much of a back bone his entire tenure in NY and he certainly had total support from Donnie Walsh. When you can't rationally defend your arguments you always seem to throw Dolan in and blame him for things that could never be substantiated and are extemely far fetched.

dk7th wrote:Yeah I know. You tend to get flustered and when you do your posts become too rambling and messy syntactically for me to respond to. Try rewriting this one so it is clearer and I will respond. No hard feelings if you can't or won't. God bless

dk7th wrote:Yeah I know. You tend to get flustered and when you do your posts become too rambling and messy syntactically for me to respond to. Try rewriting this one so it is clearer and I will respond.