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2016/17 Knicks team is taking shape
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Knickoftime
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7/12/2016  4:37 PM
Finestrg wrote:Spencer Dinwiddie/Christian Wood or Cat Barber/Wood and I'm good. And if we can't get Wood (say he's already got a handshake with the Sixers), give me those 2 guards: Dinwiddie/Barber.

Then you might as well know now, you aren't going to be good.

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EnySpree
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7/13/2016  12:39 AM
fishmike wrote:its a versatile roster.

We are no longer built (or depending on) one guy. We don't need Noah and Rose to play 80 games and be all stars. Give me 65 games and be ready for the playoffs and we are in great shape.

Cant wait to see KP+Willy play together. What a cool thing to see two kids, best buds from the Spanish league not only playing for the Knicks but potentially huge parts of the future. With KP's range and Willy's fervor for playing in the post they have really nice complimentary skill sets. Kuz is a nice two year pickup. I just really like the mix of young players, hungry vets with something to prove, we have nice depth... PHil was patient, drafted well when the team was terrible, added good contracts, flipped those into higher impact players and we have excellent flexibility moving forward.

Best of all we have a bunch of hungry guys with TALENT who WANT to be Knicks. Well that's new!

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jrodmc
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7/13/2016  9:24 AM
fishmike wrote:its a versatile roster.

We are no longer built (or depending on) one guy. We don't need Noah and Rose to play 80 games and be all stars. Give me 65 games and be ready for the playoffs and we are in great shape.

Cant wait to see KP+Willy play together. What a cool thing to see two kids, best buds from the Spanish league not only playing for the Knicks but potentially huge parts of the future. With KP's range and Willy's fervor for playing in the post they have really nice complimentary skill sets. Kuz is a nice two year pickup. I just really like the mix of young players, hungry vets with something to prove, we have nice depth... PHil was patient, drafted well when the team was terrible, added good contracts, flipped those into higher impact players and we have excellent flexibility moving forward.

Best of all we have a bunch of hungry guys with TALENT who WANT to be Knicks. Well that's new!


+1
And we don't want or need Melo to lead us in everything, particularly minutes.
I'm still liking our bench backcourt: Jennings and Holiday! A nasty vet with something to prove and a yoot who wants to be here!

If that starting unit can stay healthy, the "Melo never had any legit real help" goes by the wayside once and for all.

LivingLegend
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7/13/2016  10:01 AM
After signing Sasha and the roster now sitting at 13 I'm hoping R-Baker gets a guard spot on the roster and I think the last spot is going to be a PF.

I seem to recall (after last season ended) Phil saying we think K-Seraphin can be a PF for us (so I'm thinking Seraphin may still be on the radar as a PF candidate).
Also think they may go after Drew Gooden.

fishmike
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7/13/2016  11:11 AM
jrodmc wrote:
fishmike wrote:its a versatile roster.

We are no longer built (or depending on) one guy. We don't need Noah and Rose to play 80 games and be all stars. Give me 65 games and be ready for the playoffs and we are in great shape.

Cant wait to see KP+Willy play together. What a cool thing to see two kids, best buds from the Spanish league not only playing for the Knicks but potentially huge parts of the future. With KP's range and Willy's fervor for playing in the post they have really nice complimentary skill sets. Kuz is a nice two year pickup. I just really like the mix of young players, hungry vets with something to prove, we have nice depth... PHil was patient, drafted well when the team was terrible, added good contracts, flipped those into higher impact players and we have excellent flexibility moving forward.

Best of all we have a bunch of hungry guys with TALENT who WANT to be Knicks. Well that's new!


+1
And we don't want or need Melo to lead us in everything, particularly minutes.
I'm still liking our bench backcourt: Jennings and Holiday! A nasty vet with something to prove and a yoot who wants to be here!

If that starting unit can stay healthy, the "Melo never had any legit real help" goes by the wayside once and for all.

I think if they are healthy to start the year and healthy-ish to finish we will be in great shape. We have good depth so when these guys rest or need two weeks for a sore hammy we have guys that can step in and really do stuff, or at least fight trying to prove it.

I like all the guys on the bench to either play like pros... guys like Jennings, Lance, or come in with something to prove like Willy, Kuz or just remind everyone you can still bring it for a night when Rose gets a night off (Sasha). Cant wait for the season. So many positive story lines and we have all our first rounders moving forward (hears angels)

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
EnySpree
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7/13/2016  2:44 PM
Woooo!!!
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knicks1248
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7/13/2016  3:26 PM
THE bench is really young, and that maybe a problem
ES
knicks1248
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7/13/2016  3:26 PM
THE bench is really young, and that maybe a problem
ES
Knixkik
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7/13/2016  3:31 PM
knicks1248 wrote:THE bench is really young, and that maybe a problem

I agree. Only 5 players (Jennings, Thomas, Holiday, O'Quinn, and Vujacic) with NBA experience. The rest are rookies.

EnySpree
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7/13/2016  3:45 PM
Knixkik wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:THE bench is really young, and that maybe a problem

I agree. Only 5 players (Jennings, Thomas, Holiday, O'Quinn, and Vujacic) with NBA experience. The rest are rookies.

I thought we wanted to get younger? I'm so confused...

We are starting our vets. Some of our top reserves are vets. We need youth to grow with the Knicks and balance out the team you silly gooses!

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TLover
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7/13/2016  11:49 PM
Think the Knicks are done and will let Baker & Randle fight it out for the last spot in training camp.

Baker looks & plays like Hornachek. Basically whomever is the better defender, will get the spot.

TLover
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7/15/2016  9:00 AM
Although O'Quinn is a likeable guy on this team, still think he might get traded. If we can package him with the Bulls 2nd round pick for Mason Plumlee & Shabazz Napier, our team would be set.

An experienced athletic defensive backup center & a young point guard (under a cheap contract after next season) are the only things missing. Mason & Shabazz fit the bill.

Baker & Randle can still get some partial guarantees and play for Westchester.

PG: Rose, Jennings,Napier
Sg: Lee, Holiday, Sasha
Sf: Melo, L.Thomas, Lithuania
Pf: KP, Ndour
C : Noah, Mason Plum, Hernangomez

Westchester: Marshall Plum, Baker, Randle

Knixkik
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7/15/2016  3:07 PM
I am more excited about this team than I can remember. Melo, KP, Noah, Lee, and rose give us a big time starting lineup that we haven't had in forever. Jennings and Thomas give us 2 establish players to lead the bench. O'quinn, hermangomez, Kuzminskas, Ndour, and plumlee are 5 young big men on long term, cost controlled contacts that is smart in this cap. If 2 of them pan out and become high caliber role players, it's great. We are built to win now and built for the future. We have our draft picks and the flexibility to continue to build on this team.
fitzfarm
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7/15/2016  3:58 PM
TLover wrote:Although O'Quinn is a likeable guy on this team, still think he might get traded. If we can package him with the Bulls 2nd round pick for Mason Plumlee & Shabazz Napier, our team would be set.

An experienced athletic defensive backup center & a young point guard (under a cheap contract after next season) are the only things missing. Mason & Shabazz fit the bill.

Baker & Randle can still get some partial guarantees and play for Westchester.

PG: Rose, Jennings,Napier
Sg: Lee, Holiday, Sasha
Sf: Melo, L.Thomas, Lithuania
Pf: KP, Ndour
C : Noah, Mason Plum, Hernangomez

Westchester: Marshall Plum, Baker, Randle

I think it's looking more like this.

Rose,Jennings,Sasha
Lee,holiday,Sasha
Melo,kuz,ndour
KP,lance, ndour
Noah,oquin,willy

I think lance and kuz are interchangeable in terms of back up foward spots ... I'm curious to see wow beats out who for kuz vs ndour...

Finestrg
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7/15/2016  4:50 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/15/2016  4:59 PM
fitzfarm wrote:
TLover wrote:Although O'Quinn is a likeable guy on this team, still think he might get traded. If we can package him with the Bulls 2nd round pick for Mason Plumlee & Shabazz Napier, our team would be set.

An experienced athletic defensive backup center & a young point guard (under a cheap contract after next season) are the only things missing. Mason & Shabazz fit the bill.

Baker & Randle can still get some partial guarantees and play for Westchester.

PG: Rose, Jennings,Napier
Sg: Lee, Holiday, Sasha
Sf: Melo, L.Thomas, Lithuania
Pf: KP, Ndour
C : Noah, Mason Plum, Hernangomez

Westchester: Marshall Plum, Baker, Randle

I think it's looking more like this.

Rose,Jennings,Sasha
Lee,holiday,Sasha
Melo,kuz,ndour
KP,lance, ndour
Noah,oquin,willy

I think lance and kuz are interchangeable in terms of back up foward spots ... I'm curious to see wow beats out who for kuz vs ndour...

We'll see how training camp goes but it wouldn't surprise me if both N'Dour and Kuz beat out Lance and O'Quinn for that matter (I don't see either holdover from last year, Lance or O'Quinn, as a rotation lock). I like Lance and I'll have to see more first hand but just looking at tape of Kuz/N'Dour along with what I remember of N'Dour last summer, I think those two might have more talent than Lance. I wonder how versatile both those guys could be. Could Kuz play some 4? Could N'Dour play some 4, maybe even some 2G?

nychamp
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7/15/2016  5:02 PM
Finestrg wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
TLover wrote:Although O'Quinn is a likeable guy on this team, still think he might get traded. If we can package him with the Bulls 2nd round pick for Mason Plumlee & Shabazz Napier, our team would be set.

An experienced athletic defensive backup center & a young point guard (under a cheap contract after next season) are the only things missing. Mason & Shabazz fit the bill.

Baker & Randle can still get some partial guarantees and play for Westchester.

PG: Rose, Jennings,Napier
Sg: Lee, Holiday, Sasha
Sf: Melo, L.Thomas, Lithuania
Pf: KP, Ndour
C : Noah, Mason Plum, Hernangomez

Westchester: Marshall Plum, Baker, Randle

I think it's looking more like this.

Rose,Jennings,Sasha
Lee,holiday,Sasha
Melo,kuz,ndour
KP,lance, ndour
Noah,oquin,willy

I think lance and kuz are interchangeable in terms of back up foward spots ... I'm curious to see wow beats out who for kuz vs ndour...

We'll see how training camp goes but it wouldn't surprise me if both N'Dour and Kuz beat out Lance (and O'Quinn for that matter--I don't see either holdover from last year, Lance or O'Quinn, as a rotation lock). I like Lance and I'll have to see more first hand but just looking at tape of Kuz/N'Dour along with what I remember of N'Dour last summer, I think those two might have more talent than Lance. I wonder how versatile both those guys could be. Could Kuz play some 4? Could N'Dour play some 4, maybe even some 2G?

Lance is a lock for the rotation, probably first guy off the bench. You seem to be discounting his history with the team, popularity with players and coaches and versatility as a complementary player for this squad. There is exactly zero 0% chance that Kuz or NDour will take Lance's spot straight out of camp. In fact I suspect Kuz might go through an adjustment period for quite a while as he acclimates to the NBA game. I do think his longer term upside is good though.

martin
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7/15/2016  5:34 PM
nychamp wrote:
Finestrg wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
TLover wrote:Although O'Quinn is a likeable guy on this team, still think he might get traded. If we can package him with the Bulls 2nd round pick for Mason Plumlee & Shabazz Napier, our team would be set.

An experienced athletic defensive backup center & a young point guard (under a cheap contract after next season) are the only things missing. Mason & Shabazz fit the bill.

Baker & Randle can still get some partial guarantees and play for Westchester.

PG: Rose, Jennings,Napier
Sg: Lee, Holiday, Sasha
Sf: Melo, L.Thomas, Lithuania
Pf: KP, Ndour
C : Noah, Mason Plum, Hernangomez

Westchester: Marshall Plum, Baker, Randle

I think it's looking more like this.

Rose,Jennings,Sasha
Lee,holiday,Sasha
Melo,kuz,ndour
KP,lance, ndour
Noah,oquin,willy

I think lance and kuz are interchangeable in terms of back up foward spots ... I'm curious to see wow beats out who for kuz vs ndour...

We'll see how training camp goes but it wouldn't surprise me if both N'Dour and Kuz beat out Lance (and O'Quinn for that matter--I don't see either holdover from last year, Lance or O'Quinn, as a rotation lock). I like Lance and I'll have to see more first hand but just looking at tape of Kuz/N'Dour along with what I remember of N'Dour last summer, I think those two might have more talent than Lance. I wonder how versatile both those guys could be. Could Kuz play some 4? Could N'Dour play some 4, maybe even some 2G?

Lance is a lock for the rotation, probably first guy off the bench. You seem to be discounting his history with the team, popularity with players and coaches and versatility as a complementary player for this squad. There is exactly zero 0% chance that Kuz or NDour will take Lance's spot straight out of camp. In fact I suspect Kuz might go through an adjustment period for quite a while as he acclimates to the NBA game. I do think his longer term upside is good though.

Yeah agreed there. Lance played very well last year and is a solid, proven guy against NBA talent.

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Finestrg
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7/15/2016  6:38 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/15/2016  6:48 PM
I'm not saying it's a 'definite,' I said 'it wouldn't surprise me if' Kuz and/or N'Dour wind up beating out Lance and/or KOQ. Let's stick to Lance and put aside the fact that O'Quinn was terrible last year for the most part and hasn't locked up anything --- I like Lance but I want our best players on the floor at all times, bottom line. Interested to see if that group includes Kuz and/or N'Dour. Regarding Lance as a lock--how can anyone say zero % chance he will or won't be?? I'm not saying that at all. And I'm not discounting anything. On the contrary--I'm taking INTO ACCOUNT as much as possible in fact. Popularity with other players? Not sure that's much of a determining factor for him to beat out these other two for a rotation spot, is it? Not that many players left from last year's squad anyway.. Popularity with coaches? There's a brand new head coach--his team, his rotation to decide. Also, Hornacek has not ties to LT that I know of.. Versatility as a complimentary player? I like Lance but how versatile is he really? He's a 3. Decent offensive player in spurts, acceptable defender who works hard but it all comes at the 3 position. These other two, meanwhile, might be able to play multiple positions whereas Thomas really can't. Again, I emphasize 'might.' Who really knows at this point--we'll need to see more but the following evidence tells me it's possible: (1) video we've all seen of each, (2) reports from Fran Fraschilla on Kuz and his versatility, along with (3) what I remember seeing firsthand from N'Dour last summer. Again, I like Lance, respect him, get that he's earned his crowd favorite status but if we all see for ourselves eventually that Kuz and N'Dour are better players with more talent, versatility, etc., then those are the guys I want playing ahead of him. Consider this -- I'm sure LT has played some at the 4 the last couple of seasons but he isn't really an NBA PF and would have a heep of trouble trying to guard a guy like Tristan Thompson in the post. Fair statement? Now I didn't think N'Dour was much of a 4 either but in that Senegal clip he was all over Tristan Thompson from team Canada defensively--that surprised me and got me thinking. Thompson is a legit NBA 4 man with strength and toughness to spare and you know what? N'Dour appeared to hold his own against him. Then I also look at N'Dour the other way too -- with his slight/slender body type (he's listed at 6'9" but barely over 200 lbs.), quickness, length, uncanny ability to recover quickly when beaten, along with his budding offensive skills esp. his ability to shoot and space the floor a little, can he play some SG as well? N'Dour's intriguing as hell, and so is Kuz. Wouldn't surprise me AT ALL if either or both made the rotation. And if they did, either one or two other guys won't. I don't see how that's farfetched at all.
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7/15/2016  8:25 PM
Jennings, Rose, Sasha, and KP are said to be working out developing chemistry. If Rose and Melo are going to be the go to guys on the first unit. Jennings and KP could develop as a nice tandem as they take a break.
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nychamp
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7/16/2016  2:47 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/16/2016  3:24 AM
What I'm saying is that IMO straight out of camp neither NDour nor Kuz will have the opportunity to push Thomas out of the rotation even if they severely outplay him. Thomas has already demonstrated his defensive versatility at the NBA level guarding 1's, 2's, 3's and some 4's, and he showed that he could hit the open shot consistently (3's too). He played intelligent team basketball within the system and within himself, and all of these traits earned him the respect of the organization. Evidenced by his recent 4-year deal. Even if he absolutely sucks throughout training camp, there is 0% chance he is bumped from the rotation coming into the reg. season. Remember last year early on when he looked awful and he still got minutes and we all were puzzled about it? Wound up having a good season. The Knicks, including Hornacek (if we're presuming he has input into the signings), must certainly view him as a valuable bench player which is why I feel confident predicting this.

I do think that NDour will be a rotation player and I assume the Knicks expect this. Like Lance he can guard different positions and brings the motor, hops and desire to constantly pursue the ball that Phil Jackson has been championing since he arrived in NY.

I believe that Kuz has a real possibility to be a rotation player this year though I think that the Knicks aren't counting on it, but think there is a decent chance. Would be a disappointment if he was just a bench warmer/spot minutes guy due to some inability to get a comfort level vs NBA competition. Will likely need to put on some weight and be prepared to get knocked around some but still be effective.

Perhaps the Knicks are looking to see which of NDour and Kuz can replace Derrick Williams's role off the bench as athletic ball hound and finisher. Who knows, maybe even more efficient or consistent than DW?

O'Quinn could be in danger of being left out of the rotation if he doesn't demonstrate a next-level type of hunger and commitment this season. There were flashes last year and moments that recalled a better-passing and a moderately more skilled Charles Oakley, but then occasions when he was basically out to lunch mentally and made ugly, costly plays on offense and defense. Not reliable in his approach but promising with skills as he is a good passer and can rebound and defend when focused. He will need to show more consistency to become important as a player on this team. In the meantime the Knicks will certainly be ready to move his reasonable salary for any piece or asset they deem sufficiently valuable.

2016/17 Knicks team is taking shape

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