Moonangie wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

callmened wrote:they dont listen to us briggs...THEY DONT LISTEN TO US!! we can pontificate on this board about drafting sleepers, international talents and free agents...but the bottom line is they just want to win now to appease melo and the rabid fan base

We are trying to build a culture in NY and winning needs to be part of that. Jeff Van Gundy said it best; the most underrated factor of player development is playing in meaningful games, meaning the playoffs. This is KP's team, but we want him to develop with leadership and talent around him, so long as we aren't sacrificing future draft picks and young high-level talent to accomplish that, and it appears that is the case. I have no problem with that approach. You can compete and build for the future at the same time. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

Absolutely and perfectly stated. This is the key to our future: flexibility. Phil is doing an amazing job of balancing the present and future, without sacrificing cap flex. And THAT is something we haven't seen on the Knicks in....forever!

This group of players around KP will be very good for his development. Being on a team that is winning and making the playoffs is going to be good for KP. Not to mention that we have all of our picks going forward and some young players that are still part of this process. Phil hasn't sacrificed the future in order to build this team. To all the media and fans who think this is "same old knicks" they are wrong.

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Noah's contract better be 2-3 years tops, anything longer than that, and Phil officially took too much acid.

I'm "okay" with Rose/Noah moves, as long as we'll have enough to max someone out next year.

Only negative with these moves (besides the obvious health question marks) is it'll jeopardize our draft position in the best draft in years. With these moves we'll be around a .500 team, we'll be picking around 15 instead of 5, and not have that quality stud of a player that can play with KP for a decade.

Of course this the Knicks way....mortgage the future for the mediocre now.

Its a deep draft said to be 1-15 full with great potential guys. We can compete as hard as we want and still come up with a solid player for KP to build a duo.

And, come on, the same "Knicks mortgaging the future" has gotten old, especially when this new management hasn't done so. Not only do we still have KP, but we have been active trying to get young players even without the draft picks that were traded before this regime. I do believe the Knicks are trying to win now, but are also trying to be flexible with their future and do have in mind that the future is KP.

I think the Knicks have set themselves nicely for a "low risk / high reward season." If everything goes wrong with Rose, Melo and the rest of the team, a high pick will take us back up. If everything goes right, we may find out the meaning of the "something special is about to happen" premonition Rose gave in his introduction.

If the Knicks commit $18m per to Noah, They'll have $10-$12m to commit to a sub par shooting guard they'll overpay. Then there's still the bench where depth will be a major key with injury prone players like Rose, Noah, and Melo. Are they bringing back Lance Thomas? And at what price?

It'll be best case the 54 win season all over again, with the team held together with duct tape and elmer's glue, and a ton of veteran minimum contracts. And the eventual bust out in the 1st or 2nd round.

The real best case scenario is the Knicks sign Noah for only a 1 or 2 year rental, fill out SG and the bench with only 1 or 2 yr roster filler, and we go armed to the teeth in 2017 with $60 mill in cap space and a top 5 pick.

Knicks History tells us we'll overpay for Noah with a 4 year deal, and then sign a generic shooting guard to a 4 year $40 mill contract, essentially PHUCKING US UP THE BUTT for the future, draft pick and cap space be damned.

I'll keep my mind open until everything's offical though...

This isn't like the 2012 team. That team was really old. After Shump the youngest player was 27. That team had a 40 yr old, a 39 yr old, two 38 yr olds, and two 35 year olds. Not even close to what the Knicks are doing now. The influx of youth for that year was Cope and he is older than Melo.

Melo is 32 and Noah is 31. Both haven't come close to playing full season in quite a long time. Rose will be turning 28, but he's only played 127 out of a possible 246 regular season games the last 3 years (not even counting the entire 2013 season he missed).

This is exactly the 2012 squad all over again. A win now or forever hold your peace type team. If they don't win anything significant this year, it'll be torn apart and the reset button will be pressed once again.

Do or die team. History repeating itself once again.

That 2012 team never had a player the caliber of porzingod or a healthy Rose for that matter. 2012 didn't have a core of guys in the prime even if it's later in their prime

If healthy Noah Rose addition to our already stars is the best team put together since gosh I would say Ewing days but even he got screwed with just blue collar players most of his career .

This is the best core I think I've ever seen in my knick history dating back to 86

Rose Ny has not had a pg of his talent since Clyde, rose had a great second half and is fully healthy

Noah is a super glue guy warrior VOCAL LEADER we need a guy who holds people accountable and gets under opponents skin. He's fully healthy

We have Porzingod we have never nor has any other team had such a talent as porzingod he's going to go down as one of the greatest.

Melo a scoring machine one of the best in the game

We sure surrounded KP with some great in prime talent to learn and grow .. Again KP is the center piece to this team not melo,Rose,or Noah

It's all about KP and Phil knows it .

Tyson was a much better player in 2012 than KP is today.

Melo was much much better and younger.

Kidd was a player coach on the floor.

Noah and Rose don't help us / make us better if they play like they have played. Will they reverse course? Chances are much higher that they don't than do.

TOTALLY DISAGREE! If anything Rose n Noah are primed to have a bounce back season. All the people doubting this are missing the motivation they have to play better. Also having to carry less of a load.

Agree about disagreeing, Tyson was always over rated and got beat bad by Roy hibbert( how embarrassing is that now) .

Also Tyson and KP shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence KP was and is way better then Tyson could ever even imagine becoming. . Kidd was already way over the hill,a wash, fatten and Jr. Yuck that team way over achieved .

melo just played his best well rounded season of his career , since when do players decline at 32?
Noah is ten times the player Tyson was only dunk and rebound when I feel like it chandler.

Noah gives 110 % all game long and his court vision is fantastic .

Porzingod is the next nba phenomenon will be unstoppable this team is built for KP not melo.

Melo will have another very well rounded season

Rose has never had a talent like KP to play with ever no one has, add melo

This teams core is head over heals better and younger then 2012

fitzfarm wrote:What if Phil works zen magic on Noah and Gordon, craw and they all do 1+1 deals for the goal of getting the Knicks a chip

...those are the ingredients to a title team for you? Guys who were so banged up that they couldn't even get their respective teams to the playoffs?

ChuckBuck wrote:This is basically the nuts and bolts right here people:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/748511863235821568

This is a polarizing time in the NBA. People analyze deals based on last cap's mentality, but the market has drastically changed. Not saying I love the madness that is happening, but we'll see how things work out in terms of length and player or team options, but most deals will look horrible in this new cap reality.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/HerringWSJ/status/748958386256015360

CrushAlot wrote:Looks like it is a done deal.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/HerringWSJ/status/748958386256015360

Shit just got real! Phil ain't playin' no mo'! Now they SCURRED! LMAO

EwingsGlass wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Looks like it is a done deal.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/HerringWSJ/status/748958386256015360

Shit just got real! Phil ain't playin' no mo'! Now they SCURRED! LMAO

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH

Thank you! One of my fave video clips of all time!!!!! lmaoooo

GustavBahler wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Are you always this pissy?

Not always.

You have absolutely no idea what he will do.

No, you don't.

But you do have history to guide you. Restricted free agents take their first big payday, almost by rule.

Yes, it's theoretically possible KP doesn't cash in, plays for $7.5m for one year rather than sign the $100m plus contract he'll be eligible for (hell, it's not inconceivable he qualifies for the 5th year %30 contract, which would make it a $150m-plus dea]).

It's just nowhere near probable.

Thank you for showing a sense of humor. Neither of us know. 4 years of Dolan, and KP might be running for the exit. A ring(s) might be more important to him. Lets say you're right and he does re-up, we've seen what happens when your star player is surrounded by overpaid, oft-injured, and underproducing players who eat up a big chunk of the cap space. It makes contention all but impossible.

The Knicks need to think about creating the best environment for KP to succeed long term. As a player and as part of a well oiled machine. One starphuck (copyright Nalod) can easily beget other starphucks. We've seen it before many times over the last 10 plus years. I will know things are different when long term deals arent signed for short term gain.

I agree about the environment thing, but I think a solid argument can be made for surrounding him with players that will let him grow into his role rather than making him the alpha dog too soon is a viable strategy.

I don't know what Noah's salary will be or how many years he'll sign for. By rule I don't get angry at speculation.

But what I do know is terms removed, Noah's high-motor, relentless energy, attention to rebounding and more importantly extraordinary post-passing, will benefit KP both as a complimentary frontline player AND as an example ("environment") even if his physical tools aren't at their peak.

Knicks have never had a player like KP, comparisons to previous years are moot.

I can see if not agree with the premise of trying to build around him with all young players.

I just find it hard to imagine some of you others can't see the premise of surrounding him with capable vets for a few years, maybe even log him some play-=off experience early.

There is an argument to be had, for sure. But so often it seems like one side seems totally incapable of grasping the view of the other.

Carmelo Anthony was an MVP finalist, scoring champion, many times an all star. Not to mention Ewing, and Im not even going back to the championship years. Im confident that Porzingis will deliver, but he still has a ways to go to pass some very accomplished current and former Knick players.

As far as posters who are totally incapable of seeing the other side. I have been posting here long enough to have a track record of doing just the opposite. Ive been hearing a lot of talk now about the importance of the playoffs. Getting KP playoff experience early and often is something I have been advocating as lately as a couple of weeks ago and quite often before that. The consensus seemed to be that Porzingis has plenty of time.

We both agree on the importance of playoff experience for Porzingis, we differ on how to get there. I mIght be in the minority, but I do believe that last year's team would have made the playoffs with one competent coach.

We had a very imposing front court, depth in the froncourt, and a better starting backcourt was next. Phil believes it will be easy to find a replacement for Lopez. If his replacement was younger and showed more promise, or just better while not being injury prone, I would have been all for a trade. My problem with this trade is that it will not get us past GS, the Cavs, Spurs, OKC, and likely a few other teams for the next 2-3 years. In 2-3 years KP should become a force in this league.

The question is will two players, who have both been injury prone for most of their careers, who have been a shell of their former selves for years now be counted on to be the players they used to be 2-3 years from now? If his little experiment goes bad KP will be lucky to make the playoffs.

What I would have preferred is to keep this frontline we had, add more talent gradually while Curry, LeBron,Durant, and everyone else gets older. In a couple of years with some smart mgmt the Knicks would be ready to be a force to be reckoned with. I dont believe by signing Rose and Noah to long term and expensive deals will make us real contenders now, and down the road.

Excellento poto herr Mahler
This is why I come to UK.

CrushAlot wrote:Is it a done deal now?

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/749054631356030976

4 yrs, 70 mil. That's what the locked thread earlier today was saying