SupremeCommander wrote:I think if you're comparing Noah to Looez then you also have to compare Grant/Calderon to Rose. I think when you look at it holistically it makes more sense. I think if we can resign our guys and one more SG it isn't as dire as some make it out to be. Don't get me wrong it's not that great but where did our picks end up again? I think this proposed team is good enough to make noise in the east. If we fill out the roster with the equivalent of Kidd, KT, Rasheed, etc. on lle deals I think we can get through injury. Just need guys to be able to play at 85%

which rose are we talking about? MVP rose? Last 3 years rose? New healthy rose somewhere in the middle (that we have not seen yet and have no idea if this is even a possibility)?

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ChuckBuck wrote:All I'm saying is if Phil locks us into 4 years of Noah and 4 years of "insert mediocre shooting guard", it's just a plain bad franchise move. PERIOD. All this guarantees is the playoff berth if everyone's reasonably healthy. Not any closer to a ring, really, and it'll tie up money better spent elsewhere.

Hoping once everything's official, we'll see only 1 or 2 year team option type deals. If it's longer, then it's a PHUCK JOB.

Your logic is flawed, by virtue of making the playoffs your odds of winning a Title are in fact increased. On the contract issue we have to wait and see what the Noah contract actually ends up being.

I actually think this team makes sense if we hope to take any advantage of having Melo for the next 3 years. This is what you should do and after that contract ends you have KP just going into his prime years.

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:All I'm saying is if Phil locks us into 4 years of Noah and 4 years of "insert mediocre shooting guard", it's just a plain bad franchise move. PERIOD. All this guarantees is the playoff berth if everyone's reasonably healthy. Not any closer to a ring, really, and it'll tie up money better spent elsewhere.

Hoping once everything's official, we'll see only 1 or 2 year team option type deals. If it's longer, then it's a PHUCK JOB.

Your logic is flawed, by virtue of making the playoffs your odds of winning a Title are in fact increased. On the contract issue we have to wait and see what the Noah contract actually ends up being.

I actually think this team makes sense if we hope to take any advantage of having Melo for the next 3 years. This is what you should do and after that contract ends you have KP just going into his prime years.

Nah ChuckBuck is right in this instance. I think we should hold off with the cap space for one more yr. Or if we are to spend money it should be on Hortford. If he isn't willing to come then one yr stop gaps. I would like to pursue a team like Ibaka KP Melo Oladipo Paul. And that falls though we can always spend money on Noah and Lee types as a backup plan.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:All I'm saying is if Phil locks us into 4 years of Noah and 4 years of "insert mediocre shooting guard", it's just a plain bad franchise move. PERIOD. All this guarantees is the playoff berth if everyone's reasonably healthy. Not any closer to a ring, really, and it'll tie up money better spent elsewhere.

Hoping once everything's official, we'll see only 1 or 2 year team option type deals. If it's longer, then it's a PHUCK JOB.

4 years of Noah and 4 years of "insert mediocre shooting guard" also needs to account for 4 developmental years of a legit franchise cornerstone in Porzingis. It goes both ways. When you have the franchise player, other suspect moves (both contractually and talent wise) don't sound as suspect.

Health permitting, KP's ascension as a cornerstone player is already a given. If giving Noah and a 2 guard this year 4 year deals hamstrings us in a pursuit of 2 Max Players next year of the Westbrook/Greek Freak/Hayward ilk, then we done phucked up.

ChuckBuck wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:All I'm saying is if Phil locks us into 4 years of Noah and 4 years of "insert mediocre shooting guard", it's just a plain bad franchise move. PERIOD. All this guarantees is the playoff berth if everyone's reasonably healthy. Not any closer to a ring, really, and it'll tie up money better spent elsewhere.

Hoping once everything's official, we'll see only 1 or 2 year team option type deals. If it's longer, then it's a PHUCK JOB.

4 years of Noah and 4 years of "insert mediocre shooting guard" also needs to account for 4 developmental years of a legit franchise cornerstone in Porzingis. It goes both ways. When you have the franchise player, other suspect moves (both contractually and talent wise) don't sound as suspect.

Health permitting, KP's ascension as a cornerstone player is already a given. If giving Noah and a 2 guard this year 4 year deals hamstrings us in a pursuit of 2 Max Players next year of the Westbrook/Greek Freak/Hayward ilk, then we done phucked up.

Purely mathematically, that'd be difficult to pull off even with intent.

At minimum, the projected cap raise to $110 (which like this year will likely be more) and Rose's $21 expiring will leave around $30m in a lockbox.

And bear in mind, none of those players you mention plays center.

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:All I'm saying is if Phil locks us into 4 years of Noah and 4 years of "insert mediocre shooting guard", it's just a plain bad franchise move. PERIOD. All this guarantees is the playoff berth if everyone's reasonably healthy. Not any closer to a ring, really, and it'll tie up money better spent elsewhere.

Hoping once everything's official, we'll see only 1 or 2 year team option type deals. If it's longer, then it's a PHUCK JOB.

Your logic is flawed, by virtue of making the playoffs your odds of winning a Title are in fact increased. On the contract issue we have to wait and see what the Noah contract actually ends up being.

I actually think this team makes sense if we hope to take any advantage of having Melo for the next 3 years. This is what you should do and after that contract ends you have KP just going into his prime years.

My logic is sound, actually. This type of band-aid team building is NEVER sustainable. You build through the draft and add young hungry healthy mold-able vets and free agents. This is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE.

This is a SHORT TERM STAR PHUCK, that could be a CLUSTER PHUCK if Phil doles out 4 year deals to both Noah and mystery 2 guard.

So you're under the impression "phuck" is clever, may I assume?

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Knixkik wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:All I'm saying is if Phil locks us into 4 years of Noah and 4 years of "insert mediocre shooting guard", it's just a plain bad franchise move. PERIOD. All this guarantees is the playoff berth if everyone's reasonably healthy. Not any closer to a ring, really, and it'll tie up money better spent elsewhere.

Hoping once everything's official, we'll see only 1 or 2 year team option type deals. If it's longer, then it's a PHUCK JOB.

Your logic is flawed, by virtue of making the playoffs your odds of winning a Title are in fact increased. On the contract issue we have to wait and see what the Noah contract actually ends up being.

I actually think this team makes sense if we hope to take any advantage of having Melo for the next 3 years. This is what you should do and after that contract ends you have KP just going into his prime years.

This is exactly right. If it doesn't work out, you can always reset later with KP still not in his prime yet. In order to properly develop KP, we need to surround him with leaders and winners and try to compete so he understands how to win. Purposely losing to grasp for straws in the draft to surround him with players his age does not help his long-term development. Winning does. As long as we aren't sacrificing future picks and assets to put together this type of team, there is no harm done.

Porzingis says that he wants to be a Knick for life, but I wouldn't bank on it if the Knicks have too many broken down players eating up the cap, when it comes time to re-up. I dont believe Phil should rule out that KP might leave if he doesn't like what he sees.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:All I'm saying is if Phil locks us into 4 years of Noah and 4 years of "insert mediocre shooting guard", it's just a plain bad franchise move. PERIOD. All this guarantees is the playoff berth if everyone's reasonably healthy. Not any closer to a ring, really, and it'll tie up money better spent elsewhere.

Hoping once everything's official, we'll see only 1 or 2 year team option type deals. If it's longer, then it's a PHUCK JOB.

Your logic is flawed, by virtue of making the playoffs your odds of winning a Title are in fact increased. On the contract issue we have to wait and see what the Noah contract actually ends up being.

I actually think this team makes sense if we hope to take any advantage of having Melo for the next 3 years. This is what you should do and after that contract ends you have KP just going into his prime years.

Your odds of actually eventually winning a title might be better with a lottery pick than the 8th seed in the playoffs.

The empirical reality of that equation is in each of those scenarios your odds are very long and you'd be comparing the relative difference between very long odds.

Teams that have GREAT players win championships. We can of course point to the vast majority of lottery picks that never sniff a championship. And you can point to teams that have been in the lottery for most of the last decade (or more) that aren't in danger of getting out of it.

The James, Currys, Duncans of the world are very, very special.

Currently, Spurs two best players at the moment are a free agent signing and a non-lottery draft pick they gave up a good player to get. And of course, the Spurs move valuable player is probably their coach.

Yeah, that's a fair point. I think that although Nix is right that by making the playoffs, your theoretical possibility of winning a championship (that one year at least) are increased, the actual odds are probably negligible if you're an 8th seed.

As Carey character said in Dumb and Dumber when told about long odds 'so you telling me there is a chance, Yehhhhh"

GustavBahler wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:All I'm saying is if Phil locks us into 4 years of Noah and 4 years of "insert mediocre shooting guard", it's just a plain bad franchise move. PERIOD. All this guarantees is the playoff berth if everyone's reasonably healthy. Not any closer to a ring, really, and it'll tie up money better spent elsewhere.

Hoping once everything's official, we'll see only 1 or 2 year team option type deals. If it's longer, then it's a PHUCK JOB.

Your logic is flawed, by virtue of making the playoffs your odds of winning a Title are in fact increased. On the contract issue we have to wait and see what the Noah contract actually ends up being.

I actually think this team makes sense if we hope to take any advantage of having Melo for the next 3 years. This is what you should do and after that contract ends you have KP just going into his prime years.

This is exactly right. If it doesn't work out, you can always reset later with KP still not in his prime yet. In order to properly develop KP, we need to surround him with leaders and winners and try to compete so he understands how to win. Purposely losing to grasp for straws in the draft to surround him with players his age does not help his long-term development. Winning does. As long as we aren't sacrificing future picks and assets to put together this type of team, there is no harm done.

Porzingis says that he wants to be a Knick for life, but I wouldn't bank on it if the Knicks have too many broken down players eating up the cap, when it comes time to re-up. I dont believe Phil should rule out that KP might leave if he doesn't like what he sees.

He won't be a RESTRICTED free agent until 2019-2020.

Melo would be expired by then. Even of Noah signed for 4 years he'd be expiring that season.

And even then, KP would have to play that year for his QO to get the right to leave in 2020-21.

If KP playing for his QO offer in 2019-2020 and then leaving as a UFA in 2020 is a genuine thought in your head, let it go.