[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

GRADING THE ROSE TRADE: BULLS VS KNICKS...WHO WON?
Author Thread
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
7/1/2016  5:57 PM
callmened wrote:

from Zach Lowe article...

I posted the article. It is a good read.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
AUTOADVERT
Welpee
Posts: 23162
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239

7/1/2016  6:02 PM
mreinman wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
mreinman wrote: everything else he has done has been a disaster.

Porzingis selection was a disaster.

Check.

that was not a move, it was a default happenstance and luckily he was protected from himself that 2 teams, 1 who he warned not to take KP, did not take KP.


You could say the same for Chicago getting Michael Jordan. You could say the same for Boston having Bird available when 5 teams passed on him. Based on your logic just about every good draft pick is just luck. The Knicks could've easily drafted Cauley-Stein instead of KP so you have to give them some credit.
Knickoftime
Posts: 24159
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/13/2011
Member: #3370

7/1/2016  6:14 PM
mreinman wrote:
callmened wrote:

from Zach Lowe article...

is it ok to feel this way? just want to make sure its ok and that I am not bad

Did you actually read this piece?

It raised fair concerns, but isn't prophetic or fatalistic.

Welpee
Posts: 23162
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239

7/1/2016  6:44 PM
So apparently Conley is being offered 5 years/$150M+. I think the Rose trade looks better by the hour.
meloanyk
Posts: 20768
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/5/2013
Member: #5615

7/1/2016  7:05 PM
I think Lin is looking better, pray Rose is one and done and that Westbrook has interest
Welpee
Posts: 23162
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239

7/1/2016  7:09 PM
meloanyk wrote:I think Lin is looking better, pray Rose is one and done and that Westbrook has interest

Who knows how the Rose situation will work out, but Lin will be exposed if the Nets rely on him as their #2 guy. He looked great coming off the bench in Charlotte.
HofstraBBall
Posts: 27186
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 11/21/2015
Member: #6192

7/1/2016  7:20 PM
Welpee wrote:So apparently Conley is being offered 5 years/$150M+. I think the Rose trade looks better by the hour.

Guess his achilles is feeling better.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
Welpee
Posts: 23162
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239

7/1/2016  7:24 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/1/2016  7:30 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
Welpee wrote:So apparently Conley is being offered 5 years/$150M+. I think the Rose trade looks better by the hour.

Guess his achilles is feeling better.


Not feeling as good as his checkbook.
Welpee
Posts: 23162
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239

7/1/2016  7:30 PM
meloanyk wrote:I think Lin is looking better, pray Rose is one and done and that Westbrook has interest
That's what we do every year, see who the top free agent is going to be next year and hope he's dying to come to NY like all of the other free agents climbing over themselves to come here. Heck, Steph is a free agent next year too. Why not just plan on signing both?
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
7/1/2016  8:01 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/1/2016  8:02 PM
martin wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Now if we were giving Horford a max deal for 4 years - I would have NO ISSUES with that - NONE

I think a lot of teams will offer him a max contract and he'd have no reason to come here. Either Noah really wants to be here or he's expecting that we'll outbid everyone else.

No disagreement. I don't think we have a realistic shot at landing Horford right now. But that is not reason for us to go bid against ourselves on overrated players with injury history or attitude problems. And even if we are bidding against other teams we should only offer what's reasonable. In case of Noah a two year guaranteed contract is reasonable. Sorry for the typos, Swype on new Android phone hasn't settled to my style yet

So what happens when the team only offers what you think are reasonable contracts and then signs no one?

It's a sellers market out there


Small contracts on role players. I think 4 strong role players bring more wins than 1 Noah (from ages 31 to 35) unless he returns to the player he was in 2013-14.
blkexec
Posts: 27816
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/3/2004
Member: #748
7/2/2016  8:28 PM
Time to revisit this question
Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
7/2/2016  8:28 PM
blkexec wrote:Time to revisit this question

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
technomaster
Posts: 23213
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/30/2003
Member: #426
USA
7/10/2016  12:51 PM
A few thoughts on Derrick Rose:
He's still quick and explosive, based on these highlights from last season. I don't get the sense he's physically lost very much, in spite of the time lost due to injuries. If Brandon Knight can look like a superstar in Hornacek's system... Rose, with better innate tools, should see some resurgence.

Compare these highlights to his MVP season (2010-2011).

“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
7/10/2016  2:34 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
mreinman wrote:
callmened wrote:

from Zach Lowe article...

is it ok to feel this way? just want to make sure its ok and that I am not bad

Did you actually read this piece?

It raised fair concerns, but isn't prophetic or fatalistic.


Well said. Definitely worth reading the entire article.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
7/10/2016  2:53 PM
Rose should see more space than he's seen on his Bulls team's. Melo n KP will draw much more attention wherever they are on the floor. Noah can be the pivot and dish man with true scorers all around him to pass to. Should see much better lanes for Rose to penetrate and with Lee, Melo and KP able to catch and shoot from 3.
smackeddog
Posts: 38386
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/30/2005
Member: #883
7/10/2016  3:04 PM
technomaster wrote:A few thoughts on Derrick Rose:
He's still quick and explosive, based on these highlights from last season. I don't get the sense he's physically lost very much, in spite of the time lost due to injuries. If Brandon Knight can look like a superstar in Hornacek's system... Rose, with better innate tools, should see some resurgence.

Compare these highlights to his MVP season (2010-2011).

I don't remember watching much of prime time Rose, but wow, his speed and athleticism were incredible

Panos
Posts: 29262
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 1/6/2004
Member: #520
7/10/2016  6:56 PM
mreinman wrote:
I blame fill for making a terrible trade (again) and having no freakin clue about what the hell he is doing.

I liked what he did with lance thomas, I liked the lopez signing, I even get the Melo signing, I liked that he hired hornacek (regardless of whether it was a forced move away from his true love), everything else he has done has been a disaster.

Now I know that regardless of what move he makes, you will love and defend it to death so I don't think that you not being mr objective should keep calling people out for not seeing it your way. You only see it one way. You can deny that but that would be a waste of your time.

I didn't see any brillaint manuever with Lance Thomas. And anyway, nice bench player, but nothing that extraordinary either. Derek Williams was more valuable.
As for Hornacek, the jury is out on this one, but I for one still would have much preferred Thibs, and I think it's a damn shame he didn't get a good hard look.
As i've said elsewhere, I really liked the Jennings signing for the value, i liked the Lee signing for the fit, but I'm far from convinced about Rose and Noah. The burden of proof is on them to show they can contribute at a high level for the majority of a season. And 4 such seasons for Noah. Noah very well may be our next Amare.

nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
7/10/2016  7:39 PM
Panos wrote:
mreinman wrote:
I blame fill for making a terrible trade (again) and having no freakin clue about what the hell he is doing.

I liked what he did with lance thomas, I liked the lopez signing, I even get the Melo signing, I liked that he hired hornacek (regardless of whether it was a forced move away from his true love), everything else he has done has been a disaster.

Now I know that regardless of what move he makes, you will love and defend it to death so I don't think that you not being mr objective should keep calling people out for not seeing it your way. You only see it one way. You can deny that but that would be a waste of your time.

I didn't see any brillaint manuever with Lance Thomas. And anyway, nice bench player, but nothing that extraordinary either. Derek Williams was more valuable.
As for Hornacek, the jury is out on this one, but I for one still would have much preferred Thibs, and I think it's a damn shame he didn't get a good hard look.
As i've said elsewhere, I really liked the Jennings signing for the value, i liked the Lee signing for the fit, but I'm far from convinced about Rose and Noah. The burden of proof is on them to show they can contribute at a high level for the majority of a season. And 4 such seasons for Noah. Noah very well may be our next Amare.

Lance came back at a nice price and in terms of vale to the team I think he was under appreciated by some fans. DWill had some great moments and it would've been nice to bring him back but they may have replaced him for less.

Your doubt about Hornacek is fine but he's clearly a very smart Coach and his presence helped to shape the roster overhaul. He's expressed very clear and logical ideas for how he plans to use certain players as well as his overall plan for the team.

There were things about Thibs that sealed his fate with Phil. It most certainly wasn't the right move if he planned on going after Rose and Noah. They knew all they needed to know about him from the Knicks perspective.

Rose and Noah IMO were great gambles. If you look at Rose he stands a good chance of having a big bounce back season. Another year removed from surgery and a full off season of conditioning and work on his skills could do wonders. Noah also with another year removed from knee surgery and with enough time to heal and rehab the shoulder. Both are gonna be highly motivated to have a great season.

Panos
Posts: 29262
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 1/6/2004
Member: #520
7/10/2016  8:03 PM
nixluva wrote:
Panos wrote:
mreinman wrote:
I blame fill for making a terrible trade (again) and having no freakin clue about what the hell he is doing.

I liked what he did with lance thomas, I liked the lopez signing, I even get the Melo signing, I liked that he hired hornacek (regardless of whether it was a forced move away from his true love), everything else he has done has been a disaster.

Now I know that regardless of what move he makes, you will love and defend it to death so I don't think that you not being mr objective should keep calling people out for not seeing it your way. You only see it one way. You can deny that but that would be a waste of your time.

I didn't see any brillaint manuever with Lance Thomas. And anyway, nice bench player, but nothing that extraordinary either. Derek Williams was more valuable.
As for Hornacek, the jury is out on this one, but I for one still would have much preferred Thibs, and I think it's a damn shame he didn't get a good hard look.
As i've said elsewhere, I really liked the Jennings signing for the value, i liked the Lee signing for the fit, but I'm far from convinced about Rose and Noah. The burden of proof is on them to show they can contribute at a high level for the majority of a season. And 4 such seasons for Noah. Noah very well may be our next Amare.

Lance came back at a nice price and in terms of vale to the team I think he was under appreciated by some fans. DWill had some great moments and it would've been nice to bring him back but they may have replaced him for less.

Your doubt about Hornacek is fine but he's clearly a very smart Coach and his presence helped to shape the roster overhaul. He's expressed very clear and logical ideas for how he plans to use certain players as well as his overall plan for the team.

There were things about Thibs that sealed his fate with Phil. It most certainly wasn't the right move if he planned on going after Rose and Noah. They knew all they needed to know about him from the Knicks perspective.

Rose and Noah IMO were great gambles. If you look at Rose he stands a good chance of having a big bounce back season. Another year removed from surgery and a full off season of conditioning and work on his skills could do wonders. Noah also with another year removed from knee surgery and with enough time to heal and rehab the shoulder. Both are gonna be highly motivated to have a great season.

Amare was highly motivated. Houston was highly motivated. Multiple comebacks over multiple years. Motivation doesn't necessarily return an injured player to world class form.

KnixinSix
Posts: 20066
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/27/2013
Member: #5626

7/10/2016  9:01 PM
Phil is not going to come out and say, We arent planning to re-sign Rose when the year is done. What he did is maximized the potential and talent on the team this year with the ability to go out and still sign a star like CP3 or Westbrook next year. Jax is no dummy and will likely only shell out the big long term money (25-30 mill for 4-5 yrs) for a more durable player. Unless of course Rose plays so amazingly and healthy all year that they feel he is worth a long term mega contract risk (doubtful).
GRADING THE ROSE TRADE: BULLS VS KNICKS...WHO WON?

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy