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Phil Jax does make good decisions.......
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Malcolm
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4/29/2016  7:28 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/29/2016  7:31 PM
nixluva wrote:His 1st season is irrelevant . . .
You know, this "year zero" argument really works against Jackson.

Tell me: how many rebuilding teams/GMs have ever fired their new coach after
18 months (?)

How many (?)

So if you argue for "year zero" . . . the same question becomes really damning:
"how many rebuilding teams have ever fired their new coach after 6 months (?)"

The biggest knock against Jackson HAS to be the Fisher hiring.

You can't have that kind of disruption . . . which is why I'm for keeping Rambis
and getting on with things.

Heck, I'm willing to call 2016-2017 . . . "year zero".

Just get on with it already . . . and no more screwing around.

AUTOADVERT
nixluva
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4/30/2016  1:53 AM
Malcolm wrote:
nixluva wrote:His 1st season is irrelevant . . .
You know, this "year zero" argument really works against Jackson.

Tell me: how many rebuilding teams/GMs have ever fired their new coach after
18 months (?)

How many (?)

So if you argue for "year zero" . . . the same question becomes really damning:
"how many rebuilding teams have ever fired their new coach after 6 months (?)"

The biggest knock against Jackson HAS to be the Fisher hiring.

You can't have that kind of disruption . . . which is why I'm for keeping Rambis
and getting on with things.

Heck, I'm willing to call 2016-2017 . . . "year zero".

Just get on with it already . . . and no more screwing around.

Nah! I just don't see this as a big deal. The system and bulk of the staff remains. There's really only been a refinement of what they're teaching the players now. The whole year Zero thing is based on the fact that only MELO remains from the team Phil inherited. Fish coached this rebuilt roster for less than a full season. There really wasn't anything Fish had established for us to be worried about!!!

When you bring in 8 new players plus the guys that came on board during the previous season, in Gallo, LT and Lou, this is year one of his rebuild and the change of the coach is unfortunate but if it wasn't working, it's better to end it before they went too far down the road. For Phil to take such a drastic step there was something deeply wrong with marriage.

How do you really put any weight on the 1st year when he effectively flushed it in January? The process of switching the focus towards the future more than the present began with KP, Jerian and Willy. Nothing before that means anything. There's a clear delineation of before KP and after KP! This is YEAR ONE!

Nalod
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4/30/2016  7:14 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:WHy do people keep putting the Tyson trade and Lopez together? Tyson would have cam off the books the summer Lopez was an FA. This lumping together to say he made the right decisions does not make sense.

Also, Calderon and Felton are a wash they are both two really net-negative players except Calderon cost more money and is on a longer deal.

Anyway, I could go on and on but it doesn't matter. Yes, Phil makes good decisions but is he making the best decisions for the Franchise? Also, people pointing out that he has also made poor decisions doesn't make the dumb or less of a fan for not blindly believing in Phil based off of his coaching record. He is being judge by what he does as an executive.

Rolo replaced Tyson Chandler.
Calderon plays to his contract. 7mm is not starter money.
PHil was hired because of his coaching record over 20 years which demonstrated high IQ, and a philosophy.
The push back is not slamming phil and extrapolating it all into the future. Phil hired Kerr, it fell thru. Fish was a good decision based on all the facts at that time. Might say the Same for Brad stevens, Jason Kidd as well. ONe grew into the job, and one did not.

Rolo could have replaced Tyson regardless of trade.

Calderon does not play up to his contract at all. It is doubtful that he will make a good back up because his one trait is rarely exercises(shooting)

Phil may have been hired for all those things but he is judged by what he does as an executive

Fish had zero coaching experience and was a curious move to grab someone who just finished playing

Yes, Rolo could have replaced him regardless. But it happened. Calderon is better than Felton and 7mm is not starter money in the league. He does not turn the ball over and the team was playing .500 with him getting better as the season progressed. HE was hurt his first season.
Yes, phil is judged by results, but isn't he as an executive to be judged by the state of the team regarding assets? Culture? building a solid foundation instead f patchwork?
Fish had zero experience and year one was never going to be much more than the rebuild/Tank. Kerr had no experience either. Nor did Phil. He has not been perfect or did he have that signature move that was mind blowingly incredible.

Yes, Fish was a good idea. But it was not executed. One can make good decisions based on the criteria at the time.

For example Layden/Dolan made a good decision to bring Antonio Mcdycess on board as long as they understood the risks. The upside was huge. If they did not understand the risks, it was awful. If I place a bet with long odds its a good bet as long as I know what I am doing. IF I bet the ranch thinking my odds are good, Im an idiot. Im getting into philosophical evaluation. Most of the haters are knee jerk reactions based on outcome. With a sports team you have choices. Decisions made not always with immediate results in mind.

Its a chess game. The only problem is we don't know the ending or how long it will take. That does not mean failure. To achieve the end result one sometimes loses the battle to win the war.

All I know is the previous 15 years have not worked with that thought process.

anrst
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4/30/2016  8:30 AM
phil is an old quack
nixluva
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4/30/2016  4:13 PM
anrst wrote:phil is an old quack

WOW that's such a great post! NOT!!!

Phil is going into this summer needing to upgrade the Backcourt and not an entire team. The team has a solid Frontcourt already! Despite the W/L record this year, there was progress and a huge jump is possible if they can get the guards sufficiently upgraded. This team is much closer to winning than it appears at the moment. With some internal growth and solid additions this summer we could see a much improved team. We have to wait and see what happens.

knickscity
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4/30/2016  5:33 PM
nixluva wrote:
anrst wrote:phil is an old quack

WOW that's such a great post! NOT!!!

Phil is going into this summer needing to upgrade the Backcourt and not an entire team. The team has a solid Frontcourt already! Despite the W/L record this year, there was progress and a huge jump is possible if they can get the guards sufficiently upgraded. This team is much closer to winning than it appears at the moment. With some internal growth and solid additions this summer we could see a much improved team. We have to wait and see what happens.


They need better depth in the frontcourt and an actual starting backcourt. If I had to put a count on it, by the start of the season we'll have 6-7 new players.
mreinman
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4/30/2016  10:38 PM
Nalod wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:WHy do people keep putting the Tyson trade and Lopez together? Tyson would have cam off the books the summer Lopez was an FA. This lumping together to say he made the right decisions does not make sense.

Also, Calderon and Felton are a wash they are both two really net-negative players except Calderon cost more money and is on a longer deal.

Anyway, I could go on and on but it doesn't matter. Yes, Phil makes good decisions but is he making the best decisions for the Franchise? Also, people pointing out that he has also made poor decisions doesn't make the dumb or less of a fan for not blindly believing in Phil based off of his coaching record. He is being judge by what he does as an executive.

Rolo replaced Tyson Chandler.
Calderon plays to his contract. 7mm is not starter money.
PHil was hired because of his coaching record over 20 years which demonstrated high IQ, and a philosophy.
The push back is not slamming phil and extrapolating it all into the future. Phil hired Kerr, it fell thru. Fish was a good decision based on all the facts at that time. Might say the Same for Brad stevens, Jason Kidd as well. ONe grew into the job, and one did not.

Rolo could have replaced Tyson regardless of trade.

Calderon does not play up to his contract at all. It is doubtful that he will make a good back up because his one trait is rarely exercises(shooting)

Phil may have been hired for all those things but he is judged by what he does as an executive

Fish had zero coaching experience and was a curious move to grab someone who just finished playing

Yes, Rolo could have replaced him regardless. But it happened. Calderon is better than Felton and 7mm is not starter money in the league. He does not turn the ball over and the team was playing .500 with him getting better as the season progressed. HE was hurt his first season.
Yes, phil is judged by results, but isn't he as an executive to be judged by the state of the team regarding assets? Culture? building a solid foundation instead f patchwork?
Fish had zero experience and year one was never going to be much more than the rebuild/Tank. Kerr had no experience either. Nor did Phil. He has not been perfect or did he have that signature move that was mind blowingly incredible.

Yes, Fish was a good idea. But it was not executed. One can make good decisions based on the criteria at the time.

For example Layden/Dolan made a good decision to bring Antonio Mcdycess on board as long as they understood the risks. The upside was huge. If they did not understand the risks, it was awful. If I place a bet with long odds its a good bet as long as I know what I am doing. IF I bet the ranch thinking my odds are good, Im an idiot. Im getting into philosophical evaluation. Most of the haters are knee jerk reactions based on outcome. With a sports team you have choices. Decisions made not always with immediate results in mind.

Its a chess game. The only problem is we don't know the ending or how long it will take. That does not mean failure. To achieve the end result one sometimes loses the battle to win the war.

All I know is the previous 15 years have not worked with that thought process.

extremely weak arguments and quite (non stop) apologetic.

People can keep making silly arguments like "so phil sucked and the team sucked but thats how we got kp so its great!!"

so here is what phil is thinking ....
anrst
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4/30/2016  11:00 PM

Calderon is better than Felton and 7mm is not starter money in the league. He does not turn the ball over and the team was playing .500 with him getting better as the season progressed. HE was hurt his first season.

No, Felton is better.

Yes, phil is judged by results, but isn't he as an executive to be judged by the state of the team regarding assets? Culture? building a solid foundation instead f patchwork?

wtf does that even mean? so he's judged by results, but oh wait, you want to judge him by other things? go ahead. We have no assets, couldn't make a deal at the deadline... our culture losing and triangle bs to prove phil's legacy wasn't just MJ and Shaq ... our foundation is KP, the triangle, Grant and Wroten. Way to go Phil.

Fish had zero experience and year one was never going to be much more than the rebuild/Tank. Kerr had no experience either. Nor did Phil. He has not been perfect or did he have that signature move that was mind blowingly incredible.

Doing a good job doesn't require "mind blowingly incredible" moves.

Yes, Fish was a good idea. But it was not executed. One can make good decisions based on the criteria at the time.

it was not a good idea at all.

For example Layden/Dolan made a good decision to bring Antonio Mcdycess on board as long as they understood the risks.

LOL

The upside was huge. If they did not understand the risks, it was awful. If I place a bet with long odds its a good bet as long as I know what I am doing. IF I bet the ranch thinking my odds are good, Im an idiot.

yes, you are


Im getting into philosophical evaluation. Most of the haters are knee jerk reactions based on outcome. With a sports team you have choices. Decisions made not always with immediate results in mind.Its a chess game. The only problem is we don't know the ending or how long it will take. That does not mean failure. To achieve the end result one sometimes loses the battle to win the war.

All I know is the previous 15 years have not worked with that thought process.

this is like the Hinkie resignation letter ... and to sum up your lost cause argument, you say that b/c the past 15 years have sucked, Phil is doing alright b/c he's only had 2 and the rest of us are too dumb to appreciate his vision.

wargames
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5/1/2016  12:55 AM
I agree with op .
The algorithm gives and the algorithm takes away
nixluva
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5/1/2016  2:16 AM
anrst wrote:
this is like the Hinkie resignation letter ... and to sum up your lost cause argument, you say that b/c the past 15 years have sucked, Phil is doing alright b/c he's only had 2 and the rest of us are too dumb to appreciate his vision.

Is that really what any of us are saying? Do you even understand Phil's vision? Have you seen the moves he's made and how they set this team up for the future? Seems to me like you don't get any of it.

nixluva
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5/1/2016  2:24 AM
mreinman wrote:
Nalod wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:WHy do people keep putting the Tyson trade and Lopez together? Tyson would have cam off the books the summer Lopez was an FA. This lumping together to say he made the right decisions does not make sense.

Also, Calderon and Felton are a wash they are both two really net-negative players except Calderon cost more money and is on a longer deal.

Anyway, I could go on and on but it doesn't matter. Yes, Phil makes good decisions but is he making the best decisions for the Franchise? Also, people pointing out that he has also made poor decisions doesn't make the dumb or less of a fan for not blindly believing in Phil based off of his coaching record. He is being judge by what he does as an executive.

Rolo replaced Tyson Chandler.
Calderon plays to his contract. 7mm is not starter money.
PHil was hired because of his coaching record over 20 years which demonstrated high IQ, and a philosophy.
The push back is not slamming phil and extrapolating it all into the future. Phil hired Kerr, it fell thru. Fish was a good decision based on all the facts at that time. Might say the Same for Brad stevens, Jason Kidd as well. ONe grew into the job, and one did not.

Rolo could have replaced Tyson regardless of trade.

Calderon does not play up to his contract at all. It is doubtful that he will make a good back up because his one trait is rarely exercises(shooting)

Phil may have been hired for all those things but he is judged by what he does as an executive

Fish had zero coaching experience and was a curious move to grab someone who just finished playing

Yes, Rolo could have replaced him regardless. But it happened. Calderon is better than Felton and 7mm is not starter money in the league. He does not turn the ball over and the team was playing .500 with him getting better as the season progressed. HE was hurt his first season.
Yes, phil is judged by results, but isn't he as an executive to be judged by the state of the team regarding assets? Culture? building a solid foundation instead f patchwork?
Fish had zero experience and year one was never going to be much more than the rebuild/Tank. Kerr had no experience either. Nor did Phil. He has not been perfect or did he have that signature move that was mind blowingly incredible.

Yes, Fish was a good idea. But it was not executed. One can make good decisions based on the criteria at the time.

For example Layden/Dolan made a good decision to bring Antonio Mcdycess on board as long as they understood the risks. The upside was huge. If they did not understand the risks, it was awful. If I place a bet with long odds its a good bet as long as I know what I am doing. IF I bet the ranch thinking my odds are good, Im an idiot. Im getting into philosophical evaluation. Most of the haters are knee jerk reactions based on outcome. With a sports team you have choices. Decisions made not always with immediate results in mind.

Its a chess game. The only problem is we don't know the ending or how long it will take. That does not mean failure. To achieve the end result one sometimes loses the battle to win the war.

All I know is the previous 15 years have not worked with that thought process.

extremely weak arguments and quite (non stop) apologetic.

People can keep making silly arguments like "so phil sucked and the team sucked but thats how we got kp so its great!!"

You are really something. No matter what you say Phil clearly flushed the roster and made it easier for him to press the restart button for this franchise. He NEVER had an all in on the "Win Right Now" approach. He's added youth every offseason since he signed his contract. The pinnacle of that was drafting KP.

But feel free to keep kickin dirt on what Phil is doing. After this summer I have a feeling it will get harder to keep up this routine.

mreinman
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5/1/2016  2:34 AM
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Nalod wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:WHy do people keep putting the Tyson trade and Lopez together? Tyson would have cam off the books the summer Lopez was an FA. This lumping together to say he made the right decisions does not make sense.

Also, Calderon and Felton are a wash they are both two really net-negative players except Calderon cost more money and is on a longer deal.

Anyway, I could go on and on but it doesn't matter. Yes, Phil makes good decisions but is he making the best decisions for the Franchise? Also, people pointing out that he has also made poor decisions doesn't make the dumb or less of a fan for not blindly believing in Phil based off of his coaching record. He is being judge by what he does as an executive.

Rolo replaced Tyson Chandler.
Calderon plays to his contract. 7mm is not starter money.
PHil was hired because of his coaching record over 20 years which demonstrated high IQ, and a philosophy.
The push back is not slamming phil and extrapolating it all into the future. Phil hired Kerr, it fell thru. Fish was a good decision based on all the facts at that time. Might say the Same for Brad stevens, Jason Kidd as well. ONe grew into the job, and one did not.

Rolo could have replaced Tyson regardless of trade.

Calderon does not play up to his contract at all. It is doubtful that he will make a good back up because his one trait is rarely exercises(shooting)

Phil may have been hired for all those things but he is judged by what he does as an executive

Fish had zero coaching experience and was a curious move to grab someone who just finished playing

Yes, Rolo could have replaced him regardless. But it happened. Calderon is better than Felton and 7mm is not starter money in the league. He does not turn the ball over and the team was playing .500 with him getting better as the season progressed. HE was hurt his first season.
Yes, phil is judged by results, but isn't he as an executive to be judged by the state of the team regarding assets? Culture? building a solid foundation instead f patchwork?
Fish had zero experience and year one was never going to be much more than the rebuild/Tank. Kerr had no experience either. Nor did Phil. He has not been perfect or did he have that signature move that was mind blowingly incredible.

Yes, Fish was a good idea. But it was not executed. One can make good decisions based on the criteria at the time.

For example Layden/Dolan made a good decision to bring Antonio Mcdycess on board as long as they understood the risks. The upside was huge. If they did not understand the risks, it was awful. If I place a bet with long odds its a good bet as long as I know what I am doing. IF I bet the ranch thinking my odds are good, Im an idiot. Im getting into philosophical evaluation. Most of the haters are knee jerk reactions based on outcome. With a sports team you have choices. Decisions made not always with immediate results in mind.

Its a chess game. The only problem is we don't know the ending or how long it will take. That does not mean failure. To achieve the end result one sometimes loses the battle to win the war.

All I know is the previous 15 years have not worked with that thought process.

extremely weak arguments and quite (non stop) apologetic.

People can keep making silly arguments like "so phil sucked and the team sucked but thats how we got kp so its great!!"

You are really something. No matter what you say Phil clearly flushed the roster and made it easier for him to press the restart button for this franchise. He NEVER had an all in on the "Win Right Now" approach. He's added youth every offseason since he signed his contract. The pinnacle of that was drafting KP.

But feel free to keep kickin dirt on what Phil is doing. After this summer I have a feeling it will get harder to keep up this routine.

I give you credit cause it ain't easy to defend oj but someones gotta do it.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
MS
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5/1/2016  6:40 AM
I don't know how anyone in their right mind could defend the Tyson and Felton trade.

RoLo has no place in the conversation.

Phil said he was clearing salary in this trade which was completely false. Chandler had an all star season for the Mavs when we moved him. Felton by no means is a great point guard, however he does one thing we really needed and that's penetrate.

Your argument that Joses salary is on par with the player he is happens to be a joke. He is making 7.7MM this season. A number we didn't need on our cap. He makes more than Isiah Thomas, Jeremy Lin, Shaun Livingston and a number of guards that dominate him every time we play them.

That trade will cost us a second max contract.

So Phil has made two good decisions to date, KP and to a lesser extent Lopez.

knickscity
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5/1/2016  8:22 AM
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Nalod wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:WHy do people keep putting the Tyson trade and Lopez together? Tyson would have cam off the books the summer Lopez was an FA. This lumping together to say he made the right decisions does not make sense.

Also, Calderon and Felton are a wash they are both two really net-negative players except Calderon cost more money and is on a longer deal.

Anyway, I could go on and on but it doesn't matter. Yes, Phil makes good decisions but is he making the best decisions for the Franchise? Also, people pointing out that he has also made poor decisions doesn't make the dumb or less of a fan for not blindly believing in Phil based off of his coaching record. He is being judge by what he does as an executive.

Rolo replaced Tyson Chandler.
Calderon plays to his contract. 7mm is not starter money.
PHil was hired because of his coaching record over 20 years which demonstrated high IQ, and a philosophy.
The push back is not slamming phil and extrapolating it all into the future. Phil hired Kerr, it fell thru. Fish was a good decision based on all the facts at that time. Might say the Same for Brad stevens, Jason Kidd as well. ONe grew into the job, and one did not.

Rolo could have replaced Tyson regardless of trade.

Calderon does not play up to his contract at all. It is doubtful that he will make a good back up because his one trait is rarely exercises(shooting)

Phil may have been hired for all those things but he is judged by what he does as an executive

Fish had zero coaching experience and was a curious move to grab someone who just finished playing

Yes, Rolo could have replaced him regardless. But it happened. Calderon is better than Felton and 7mm is not starter money in the league. He does not turn the ball over and the team was playing .500 with him getting better as the season progressed. HE was hurt his first season.
Yes, phil is judged by results, but isn't he as an executive to be judged by the state of the team regarding assets? Culture? building a solid foundation instead f patchwork?
Fish had zero experience and year one was never going to be much more than the rebuild/Tank. Kerr had no experience either. Nor did Phil. He has not been perfect or did he have that signature move that was mind blowingly incredible.

Yes, Fish was a good idea. But it was not executed. One can make good decisions based on the criteria at the time.

For example Layden/Dolan made a good decision to bring Antonio Mcdycess on board as long as they understood the risks. The upside was huge. If they did not understand the risks, it was awful. If I place a bet with long odds its a good bet as long as I know what I am doing. IF I bet the ranch thinking my odds are good, Im an idiot. Im getting into philosophical evaluation. Most of the haters are knee jerk reactions based on outcome. With a sports team you have choices. Decisions made not always with immediate results in mind.

Its a chess game. The only problem is we don't know the ending or how long it will take. That does not mean failure. To achieve the end result one sometimes loses the battle to win the war.

All I know is the previous 15 years have not worked with that thought process.

extremely weak arguments and quite (non stop) apologetic.

People can keep making silly arguments like "so phil sucked and the team sucked but thats how we got kp so its great!!"

You are really something. No matter what you say Phil clearly flushed the roster and made it easier for him to press the restart button for this franchise. He NEVER had an all in on the "Win Right Now" approach. He's added youth every offseason since he signed his contract. The pinnacle of that was drafting KP.

But feel free to keep kickin dirt on what Phil is doing. After this summer I have a feeling it will get harder to keep up this routine.


The only move that Phil can make to move the chains is sign Durant. The talent pool this summer isn't even good. Three years in the team shouldn't really be looking to upgrade the backcourt and hiring a coach. Even someone who sees no wrong in Phil like yourself should be able to agree with that.
Nalod
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5/1/2016  2:29 PM
anrst wrote:

Calderon is better than Felton and 7mm is not starter money in the league. He does not turn the ball over and the team was playing .500 with him getting better as the season progressed. HE was hurt his first season.

No, Felton is better.

Yes, phil is judged by results, but isn't he as an executive to be judged by the state of the team regarding assets? Culture? building a solid foundation instead f patchwork?

wtf does that even mean? so he's judged by results, but oh wait, you want to judge him by other things? go ahead. We have no assets, couldn't make a deal at the deadline... our culture losing and triangle bs to prove phil's legacy wasn't just MJ and Shaq ... our foundation is KP, the triangle, Grant and Wroten. Way to go Phil.

Fish had zero experience and year one was never going to be much more than the rebuild/Tank. Kerr had no experience either. Nor did Phil. He has not been perfect or did he have that signature move that was mind blowingly incredible.

Doing a good job doesn't require "mind blowingly incredible" moves.

Yes, Fish was a good idea. But it was not executed. One can make good decisions based on the criteria at the time.

it was not a good idea at all.

For example Layden/Dolan made a good decision to bring Antonio Mcdycess on board as long as they understood the risks.

LOL

The upside was huge. If they did not understand the risks, it was awful. If I place a bet with long odds its a good bet as long as I know what I am doing. IF I bet the ranch thinking my odds are good, Im an idiot.

yes, you are


Im getting into philosophical evaluation. Most of the haters are knee jerk reactions based on outcome. With a sports team you have choices. Decisions made not always with immediate results in mind.Its a chess game. The only problem is we don't know the ending or how long it will take. That does not mean failure. To achieve the end result one sometimes loses the battle to win the war.

All I know is the previous 15 years have not worked with that thought process.

this is like the Hinkie resignation letter ... and to sum up your lost cause argument, you say that b/c the past 15 years have sucked, Phil is doing alright b/c he's only had 2 and the rest of us are too dumb to appreciate his vision.

I wouldn't go that far, I'd say you think your smarter knowing the outcomes of decisions instead trying to understand the facts as they were at that moment. Good decision does not mean a good outcome. You make the assumptions with hindsight. Your response indicates your not a deep thinker so my attempt is lost on you.

Nalod
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5/1/2016  2:40 PM
MS wrote:I don't know how anyone in their right mind could defend the Tyson and Felton trade.

RoLo has no place in the conversation.

Phil said he was clearing salary in this trade which was completely false. Chandler had an all star season for the Mavs when we moved him. Felton by no means is a great point guard, however he does one thing we really needed and that's penetrate.

Your argument that Joses salary is on par with the player he is happens to be a joke. He is making 7.7MM this season. A number we didn't need on our cap. He makes more than Isiah Thomas, Jeremy Lin, Shaun Livingston and a number of guards that dominate him every time we play them.

That trade will cost us a second max contract.

So Phil has made two good decisions to date, KP and to a lesser extent Lopez.

Tyson does good in contract years don't he. Was it logical to try to fill the center position when you don't have much to trade with? or be Patient knowing Rolo, Aldridge and Monroe could be free agents? Thats a decision you make.

Same thing for the back court this year? Do you overpay or make a panic move or just wait? I don't know how we do this in the off season, but Teague for a no 1 pick is not in my book a good decisions. We might differ on this. Isiah, Lin and Livingston all play for playoff teams.

Felton is a better basketball player but He can't go for starter minutes. We got a lot out of him for a short period of time.

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5/1/2016  2:41 PM
Defensive player of the year Tyson Chandler. NBA Champion Tyson Chandler. Hey, at least we got a crack at Cleanthony Early for him.
¿ △ ?
mreinman
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Joined: 7/14/2010
Member: #3189

5/1/2016  2:42 PM
Nalod wrote:
anrst wrote:

Calderon is better than Felton and 7mm is not starter money in the league. He does not turn the ball over and the team was playing .500 with him getting better as the season progressed. HE was hurt his first season.

No, Felton is better.

Yes, phil is judged by results, but isn't he as an executive to be judged by the state of the team regarding assets? Culture? building a solid foundation instead f patchwork?

wtf does that even mean? so he's judged by results, but oh wait, you want to judge him by other things? go ahead. We have no assets, couldn't make a deal at the deadline... our culture losing and triangle bs to prove phil's legacy wasn't just MJ and Shaq ... our foundation is KP, the triangle, Grant and Wroten. Way to go Phil.

Fish had zero experience and year one was never going to be much more than the rebuild/Tank. Kerr had no experience either. Nor did Phil. He has not been perfect or did he have that signature move that was mind blowingly incredible.

Doing a good job doesn't require "mind blowingly incredible" moves.

Yes, Fish was a good idea. But it was not executed. One can make good decisions based on the criteria at the time.

it was not a good idea at all.

For example Layden/Dolan made a good decision to bring Antonio Mcdycess on board as long as they understood the risks.

LOL

The upside was huge. If they did not understand the risks, it was awful. If I place a bet with long odds its a good bet as long as I know what I am doing. IF I bet the ranch thinking my odds are good, Im an idiot.

yes, you are


Im getting into philosophical evaluation. Most of the haters are knee jerk reactions based on outcome. With a sports team you have choices. Decisions made not always with immediate results in mind.Its a chess game. The only problem is we don't know the ending or how long it will take. That does not mean failure. To achieve the end result one sometimes loses the battle to win the war.

All I know is the previous 15 years have not worked with that thought process.

this is like the Hinkie resignation letter ... and to sum up your lost cause argument, you say that b/c the past 15 years have sucked, Phil is doing alright b/c he's only had 2 and the rest of us are too dumb to appreciate his vision.

I wouldn't go that far, I'd say you think your smarter knowing the outcomes of decisions instead trying to understand the facts as they were at that moment. Good decision does not mean a good outcome. You make the assumptions with hindsight. Your response indicates your not a deep thinker so my attempt is lost on you.

so if you were a deep thinking devils advocate, what would your argument be against phil and how he has underperformed at best in his role?

And what would be your take and have to live and die by the triangle and triangle people?

so here is what phil is thinking ....
mreinman
Posts: 37827
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Joined: 7/14/2010
Member: #3189

5/1/2016  2:43 PM
crzymdups wrote:Defensive player of the year Tyson Chandler. NBA Champion Tyson Chandler. Hey, at least we got a crack at Cleanthony Early for him.

but what if I would tell you that tyson was a cancerous mole?

so here is what phil is thinking ....
jrodmc
Posts: 32927
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USA
5/2/2016  10:58 AM
mreinman wrote:
Nalod wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:WHy do people keep putting the Tyson trade and Lopez together? Tyson would have cam off the books the summer Lopez was an FA. This lumping together to say he made the right decisions does not make sense.

Also, Calderon and Felton are a wash they are both two really net-negative players except Calderon cost more money and is on a longer deal.

Anyway, I could go on and on but it doesn't matter. Yes, Phil makes good decisions but is he making the best decisions for the Franchise? Also, people pointing out that he has also made poor decisions doesn't make the dumb or less of a fan for not blindly believing in Phil based off of his coaching record. He is being judge by what he does as an executive.

Rolo replaced Tyson Chandler.
Calderon plays to his contract. 7mm is not starter money.
PHil was hired because of his coaching record over 20 years which demonstrated high IQ, and a philosophy.
The push back is not slamming phil and extrapolating it all into the future. Phil hired Kerr, it fell thru. Fish was a good decision based on all the facts at that time. Might say the Same for Brad stevens, Jason Kidd as well. ONe grew into the job, and one did not.

Rolo could have replaced Tyson regardless of trade.

Calderon does not play up to his contract at all. It is doubtful that he will make a good back up because his one trait is rarely exercises(shooting)

Phil may have been hired for all those things but he is judged by what he does as an executive

Fish had zero coaching experience and was a curious move to grab someone who just finished playing

Yes, Rolo could have replaced him regardless. But it happened. Calderon is better than Felton and 7mm is not starter money in the league. He does not turn the ball over and the team was playing .500 with him getting better as the season progressed. HE was hurt his first season.
Yes, phil is judged by results, but isn't he as an executive to be judged by the state of the team regarding assets? Culture? building a solid foundation instead f patchwork?
Fish had zero experience and year one was never going to be much more than the rebuild/Tank. Kerr had no experience either. Nor did Phil. He has not been perfect or did he have that signature move that was mind blowingly incredible.

Yes, Fish was a good idea. But it was not executed. One can make good decisions based on the criteria at the time.

For example Layden/Dolan made a good decision to bring Antonio Mcdycess on board as long as they understood the risks. The upside was huge. If they did not understand the risks, it was awful. If I place a bet with long odds its a good bet as long as I know what I am doing. IF I bet the ranch thinking my odds are good, Im an idiot. Im getting into philosophical evaluation. Most of the haters are knee jerk reactions based on outcome. With a sports team you have choices. Decisions made not always with immediate results in mind.

Its a chess game. The only problem is we don't know the ending or how long it will take. That does not mean failure. To achieve the end result one sometimes loses the battle to win the war.

All I know is the previous 15 years have not worked with that thought process.

extremely weak arguments and quite (non stop) apologetic.

People can keep making silly arguments like "so phil sucked and the team sucked but thats how we got kp so its great!!"

Or we can listen to silly people talking about how great Hinkie is.
"Philly of course, is all about real, quality sucking."

Phil Jax does make good decisions.......

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