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Melo: "Thibs would've come here if he was offered the job. I know that for a fact."
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crzymdups
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4/29/2016  9:06 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/29/2016  9:07 AM
Best coach on the market wanted to come here. Couldn't even get an interview. Ran the Triangle in Chicago. Couldn't get a phone call.

Before the know-it-alls ask how Melo could've known about Thibodeau - Thibs and Boeheim are very close. Boeheim and Melo are very close. Do the math before saying this is made up.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/15422793/carmelo-anthony-phil-jackson-discussed-new-york-knicks-coaching-search

NEW YORK -- Carmelo Anthony and Phil Jackson discussed the Knicks' coaching search during their exit meetings last month and haven't spoken about it since.

The lack of communication is a bit odd because Anthony has said he wants to share his opinion with the front office during the search.

"I'm pretty sure people would assume that [I'd be in contact with Jackson]. I would assume that too," Anthony told ESPN on Thursday during a promotional appearance in Manhattan. "But what can I do? Bang down the door? Knock down the door and point a finger at Phil and say why hell you ain't ..."

Anthony trailed off and laughed.

Jackson has spoken to former Cavaliers coach David Blatt and Warriors assistant coach Luke Walton about the Knicks' vacancy, according to sources. Knicks interim coach Kurt Rambis also remains a strong candidate for the full-time job, league sources say. The Knicks could broaden their search, but Jackson said last month that he would "probably" limit his search to candidates he knows.

Anthony seemingly isn't in lock step with Jackson regarding the Knicks' approach to their coaching search. The veteran forward told Sirius XM Radio earlier Thursday that he would have a "problem" if the Knicks didn't consider all the options available.

"It needs to be a process. As long as there's a process and you go through the proper channels to figure out exactly what you want to do, then I don't have no problem with that," Anthony told the radio channel. "But if you don't go through that process and you don't at least look and see what's out there, then we have a problem."

One available coach Jackson did not reach out to was Tom Thibodeau. Jackson did not contact Thibodeau before Thibodeau accepted the position as the Timberwolves' head coach and president of basketball operations, sources say.

Anthony believes Thibodeau would have accepted the Knicks job if it had been offered to him.

"I'm pretty sure in Thibodeau's situation, I'm pretty sure he wanted to come. He waited a while to see if [New York] was going to reach out to him. It didn't happen," Anthony told ESPN. "I'm pretty sure if he would've gotten offered the job, he would have [taken] it with no regret. He would have jumped on it. I know that for a fact."

The Knicks could still broaden their search because they have no first-round picks in the upcoming June draft and no need to rush the decision. Other available candidates include Jeff Van Gundy, Mark Jackson and Jeff Hornacek. Former Knicks great Patrick Ewing, a lead assistant with the Charlotte Hornets, has expressed interest in the job.

Anthony said Thursday that he doesn't know what Jackson will do.

"I don't know kind of what they're thinking about going through the process," he said. "I don't know if he already made his decision. I don't know. Nobody knows what he's thinking. That's the hard part."

The Knicks declined to comment Thursday on the lack of communication between Anthony and Jackson. The lack of dialogue with the team president hasn't tempered Anthony's commitment to the Knicks or the "Zen Master."

Anthony, who has a no-trade clause in his contract, told "The Dan Patrick Show" that his "goal" is to retire as a Knick.

"At this point, I still have to believe in what Phil is doing. I can't say that I don't believe in him no more, this is over with. I still have to believe in him," Anthony told ESPN. "I'm here. I still want to be here. I still want to be successful here, so I don't have no other choice but to believe in [his plan]."

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crzymdups
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4/29/2016  9:08 AM
I'm fine if Phil talked to Thibs and it didn't work out. But to not even interview a guy who ran the Triangle and is the best defensive coach in the league? He didn't even talk to him.
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fishmike
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4/29/2016  9:11 AM
So Phil didn't want him.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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4/29/2016  9:19 AM
There is nothing that Thibs brings to the table that matters if he and Phil don't have a great relationship.

If you look at Phil's history, its not the Xs and Os. Its the people management. The best example is Kobe. He publicly wanted him gone. They hated each other. Phil comes back and they win 2 more titles and Kobe finishes his career saying he doesn't win titles without Phil as a coach.

Thibs isn't a player. This is not the franchise player scorning us because of the system we run. Thibs can be great. Or he can grind your players to 50 win seasons and first round exits. Thibs hasn't accomplished anything Mike DAntoni hasn't... Thibs best work was probably in Boston under Doc. I remember actually being excited about Larry Brown. A good coach is nice. Without synergy with the front office it means nothing.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
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4/29/2016  9:21 AM
fishmike wrote:So Phil didn't want him.

So you're cool that he prioritizes the Triangle over even talking to a top five coach in the league? One who happened to run the Triangle 25% of the time in Chicago?

Best defensive coach in the league. Phil didn't pick up the phone.

I think it's kind of absurd.

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crzymdups
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4/29/2016  9:22 AM
fishmike wrote:There is nothing that Thibs brings to the table that matters if he and Phil don't have a great relationship.

If you look at Phil's history, its not the Xs and Os. Its the people management. The best example is Kobe. He publicly wanted him gone. They hated each other. Phil comes back and they win 2 more titles and Kobe finishes his career saying he doesn't win titles without Phil as a coach.

Thibs isn't a player. This is not the franchise player scorning us because of the system we run. Thibs can be great. Or he can grind your players to 50 win seasons and first round exits. Thibs hasn't accomplished anything Mike DAntoni hasn't... Thibs best work was probably in Boston under Doc. I remember actually being excited about Larry Brown. A good coach is nice. Without synergy with the front office it means nothing.


Yes, Phil knows all about being on the front page with his front office.

Despite the Bulls' success, tension between Jackson and Bulls general manager Jerry Krause grew. Some believed that Krause felt under-recognized for building a championship team and believed that Jackson was indebted to him for giving him his first NBA coaching job. In the summer of 1997, Jackson was not invited to the wedding of Krause's stepdaughter, although all of the Bulls' assistant coaches were, as was Tim Floyd, then head coach at Iowa State, Jackson's eventual successor.[11] After contentious negotiations, Jackson was signed for the 1997–98 season only. Krause announced the signing by emphasizing that Jackson would not be rehired even if the Bulls won the 1997–98 title. Jackson then told Krause that he seemed to be rooting for the other side, to which Krause responded, "I don't care if it's 82-and-0 this year, you're ****ing gone."[11] Krause publicly portrayed Jackson as a two-faced character who had very little regard for his assistant coaches.

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nyk4ever
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4/29/2016  9:23 AM
why is it always about thibs? if he and phil do not share the same philosophies then what's the point of hiring him? to watch them clash and then complain about how the gm and coach can't get on the same page? don't get me wrong, i would have loved to have thibs but let's not act like he's won multiple championships - he's never been to the finals, been to one EC finals and lost in the first round twice. he's not a miracle worker by any stretch.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
nyk4ever
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4/29/2016  9:24 AM
crzymdups wrote:
fishmike wrote:So Phil didn't want him.

So you're cool that he prioritizes the Triangle over even talking to a top five coach in the league? One who happened to run the Triangle 25% of the time in Chicago?

Best defensive coach in the league. Phil didn't pick up the phone.

I think it's kind of absurd.

what exactly quantifies thibs as a top5 coach? im not trying to be a dick or anything, im just wondering what you're using as the criteria, because he's never won anything.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
crzymdups
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4/29/2016  9:30 AM
nyk4ever wrote:why is it always about thibs? if he and phil do not share the same philosophies then what's the point of hiring him? to watch them clash and then complain about how the gm and coach can't get on the same page? don't get me wrong, i would have loved to have thibs but let's not act like he's won multiple championships - he's never been to the finals, been to one EC finals and lost in the first round twice. he's not a miracle worker by any stretch.

Derrick Rose suffered horrific injuries three years in a row and he still had that Bulls team winning.

Same Bulls team that won 50+ games last year misses the playoffs this year after Thibs leaves.

He's the best coach on the market, or he was, but Jackson wouldn't even talk to him because of the Riley/JVG connections.

It is pure arrogance that Phil wouldn't talk to him.

The dude RAN THE TRIANGLE IN CHICAGO. And couldn't get a phone call.

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crzymdups
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4/29/2016  9:32 AM
nyk4ever wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
fishmike wrote:So Phil didn't want him.

So you're cool that he prioritizes the Triangle over even talking to a top five coach in the league? One who happened to run the Triangle 25% of the time in Chicago?

Best defensive coach in the league. Phil didn't pick up the phone.

I think it's kind of absurd.

what exactly quantifies thibs as a top5 coach? im not trying to be a dick or anything, im just wondering what you're using as the criteria, because he's never won anything.

Pretty much anyone in the NBA would agree that he's a top five coach.

I don't know, what qualifies Westbrook as a top five player? He hasn't won ****. But people watch him work and they're like "damn, that's a top five player in this league."

I think you'd be hardpressed to find anyone outside of Phil's sad little triangle hut who doesn't think Thibs is one of the best coaches in the entire league. I've heard Woj call him top 5, Berger, Beck, etc.

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nyk4ever
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4/29/2016  9:35 AM
crzymdups wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
fishmike wrote:So Phil didn't want him.

So you're cool that he prioritizes the Triangle over even talking to a top five coach in the league? One who happened to run the Triangle 25% of the time in Chicago?

Best defensive coach in the league. Phil didn't pick up the phone.

I think it's kind of absurd.

what exactly quantifies thibs as a top5 coach? im not trying to be a dick or anything, im just wondering what you're using as the criteria, because he's never won anything.

Pretty much anyone in the NBA would agree that he's a top five coach.

I don't know, what qualifies Westbrook as a top five player? He hasn't won ****. But people watch him work and they're like "damn, that's a top five player in this league."

I think you'd be hardpressed to find anyone outside of Phil's sad little triangle hut who doesn't think Thibs is one of the best coaches in the entire league. I've heard Woj call him top 5, Berger, Beck, etc.

i'm not disagreeing with you about thibs, i like him and would've liked him to come here, i just don't think by not hiring him we've passed on hiring red auerbach (or phil jackson )

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
crzymdups
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4/29/2016  9:38 AM
nyk4ever wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
fishmike wrote:So Phil didn't want him.

So you're cool that he prioritizes the Triangle over even talking to a top five coach in the league? One who happened to run the Triangle 25% of the time in Chicago?

Best defensive coach in the league. Phil didn't pick up the phone.

I think it's kind of absurd.

what exactly quantifies thibs as a top5 coach? im not trying to be a dick or anything, im just wondering what you're using as the criteria, because he's never won anything.

Pretty much anyone in the NBA would agree that he's a top five coach.

I don't know, what qualifies Westbrook as a top five player? He hasn't won ****. But people watch him work and they're like "damn, that's a top five player in this league."

I think you'd be hardpressed to find anyone outside of Phil's sad little triangle hut who doesn't think Thibs is one of the best coaches in the entire league. I've heard Woj call him top 5, Berger, Beck, etc.

i'm not disagreeing with you about thibs, i like him and would've liked him to come here, i just don't think by not hiring him we've passed on hiring red auerbach (or phil jackson )

Phil was certainly a top five coach... and may still be.

Building a team is not quite the same job as being the team's coach.

Phil always clashed with his front office. Remember how he quit the Lakers in 2004 because they wouldn't trade Kobe? He also tried to get the Lakers to trade Kobe in 2007, too.

So the idea that you need to be on the same page with coach and front office... is kinda not the way Phil's entire career has gone.

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fishmike
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4/29/2016  9:41 AM
crzymdups wrote:
fishmike wrote:So Phil didn't want him.

So you're cool that he prioritizes the Triangle over even talking to a top five coach in the league? One who happened to run the Triangle 25% of the time in Chicago?

Best defensive coach in the league. Phil didn't pick up the phone.

I think it's kind of absurd.

100% cool. Even if its Rambis as HC. Thibs is good. He's talented. Might have been great. Might have been a power struggle. Who knows. Its Phil's call. The relationship is more important. Van Gundy was good coach. Grunfeld was a good GM. Their toxic relationship almost ended with the Knicks missing the playoffs when they were considered a favorite to come out of the East.

It really doesn't bother me at all. Long term, big picture.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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4/29/2016  9:42 AM
crzymdups wrote:
fishmike wrote:There is nothing that Thibs brings to the table that matters if he and Phil don't have a great relationship.

If you look at Phil's history, its not the Xs and Os. Its the people management. The best example is Kobe. He publicly wanted him gone. They hated each other. Phil comes back and they win 2 more titles and Kobe finishes his career saying he doesn't win titles without Phil as a coach.

Thibs isn't a player. This is not the franchise player scorning us because of the system we run. Thibs can be great. Or he can grind your players to 50 win seasons and first round exits. Thibs hasn't accomplished anything Mike DAntoni hasn't... Thibs best work was probably in Boston under Doc. I remember actually being excited about Larry Brown. A good coach is nice. Without synergy with the front office it means nothing.


Yes, Phil knows all about being on the front page with his front office.

Despite the Bulls' success, tension between Jackson and Bulls general manager Jerry Krause grew. Some believed that Krause felt under-recognized for building a championship team and believed that Jackson was indebted to him for giving him his first NBA coaching job. In the summer of 1997, Jackson was not invited to the wedding of Krause's stepdaughter, although all of the Bulls' assistant coaches were, as was Tim Floyd, then head coach at Iowa State, Jackson's eventual successor.[11] After contentious negotiations, Jackson was signed for the 1997–98 season only. Krause announced the signing by emphasizing that Jackson would not be rehired even if the Bulls won the 1997–98 title. Jackson then told Krause that he seemed to be rooting for the other side, to which Krause responded, "I don't care if it's 82-and-0 this year, you're ****ing gone."[11] Krause publicly portrayed Jackson as a two-faced character who had very little regard for his assistant coaches.

talk to me about what happened in LA and Chi when Phil left. Krause wanted all the credit himself, thought they didn't need Phil and spent the next several years being called things like the Horri-Bulls.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
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4/29/2016  9:43 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/29/2016  9:44 AM
WOW. I've never done the numbers before - this is embarrassing for Phil.

Phil Jackson's Coaching Tree all-time record (Fisher, Rambis, Cartwright, Hamblen, Shaw, Cleamons)

253 wins 557 losses


Tom Thibodeau's all-time record

255 wins 139 losses


Tom Thibodeau has more wins than EVERY SINGLE TRIANGLE DISCIPLE EVER COMBINED.

No wonder Phil didn't want to talk to him.

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crzymdups
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4/29/2016  9:44 AM
fishmike wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
fishmike wrote:There is nothing that Thibs brings to the table that matters if he and Phil don't have a great relationship.

If you look at Phil's history, its not the Xs and Os. Its the people management. The best example is Kobe. He publicly wanted him gone. They hated each other. Phil comes back and they win 2 more titles and Kobe finishes his career saying he doesn't win titles without Phil as a coach.

Thibs isn't a player. This is not the franchise player scorning us because of the system we run. Thibs can be great. Or he can grind your players to 50 win seasons and first round exits. Thibs hasn't accomplished anything Mike DAntoni hasn't... Thibs best work was probably in Boston under Doc. I remember actually being excited about Larry Brown. A good coach is nice. Without synergy with the front office it means nothing.


Yes, Phil knows all about being on the front page with his front office.

Despite the Bulls' success, tension between Jackson and Bulls general manager Jerry Krause grew. Some believed that Krause felt under-recognized for building a championship team and believed that Jackson was indebted to him for giving him his first NBA coaching job. In the summer of 1997, Jackson was not invited to the wedding of Krause's stepdaughter, although all of the Bulls' assistant coaches were, as was Tim Floyd, then head coach at Iowa State, Jackson's eventual successor.[11] After contentious negotiations, Jackson was signed for the 1997–98 season only. Krause announced the signing by emphasizing that Jackson would not be rehired even if the Bulls won the 1997–98 title. Jackson then told Krause that he seemed to be rooting for the other side, to which Krause responded, "I don't care if it's 82-and-0 this year, you're ****ing gone."[11] Krause publicly portrayed Jackson as a two-faced character who had very little regard for his assistant coaches.

talk to me about what happened in LA and Chi when Phil left. Krause wanted all the credit himself, thought they didn't need Phil and spent the next several years being called things like the Horri-Bulls.

Basically it was two sad old men trying to take credit for the career of the best basketball player of all time, IMHO.

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fishmike
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4/29/2016  9:45 AM
crzymdups.. maybe Phil knows the guy and simply hates him. You just don't have all the info. Unless you think Thibs should be doing here what he's doing in Sota, running the whole ship. Otherwise Phil is more important than Thibs, bottom line. He gets who he wants to get. Coaching means nothing if the FO relationship isn't great. We have seen this so many times. Calling Phil arrogant because he's doesn't interview someone he doesn't want to work with? Is it his show or not?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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4/29/2016  9:45 AM
crzymdups wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:why is it always about thibs? if he and phil do not share the same philosophies then what's the point of hiring him? to watch them clash and then complain about how the gm and coach can't get on the same page? don't get me wrong, i would have loved to have thibs but let's not act like he's won multiple championships - he's never been to the finals, been to one EC finals and lost in the first round twice. he's not a miracle worker by any stretch.

Derrick Rose suffered horrific injuries three years in a row and he still had that Bulls team winning.

Same Bulls team that won 50+ games last year misses the playoffs this year after Thibs leaves.

He's the best coach on the market, or he was, but Jackson wouldn't even talk to him because of the Riley/JVG connections.

It is pure arrogance that Phil wouldn't talk to him.

The dude RAN THE TRIANGLE IN CHICAGO. And couldn't get a phone call.

Thibs is certainly a top coach and I love his defensive approach. I'm not blaming him for Rose's injuries but the guy runs players into the ground. That would have blown up in our face with and aging Melo and then it would have taken a toll on the younger guys eventually. That said, I would have loved to have had him but I'm not broken up that he is not here, due to the injury concerns.

In a way, this is a sick analogy to what we are facing with the triangle. We need smart system specific guys and in a way, Thibs needs guys who won't break down and can handle his style. Maybe this is overblown but I get the feeling there is something to it all.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
crzymdups
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4/29/2016  9:46 AM
crzymdups wrote:WOW. I've never done the numbers before - this is embarrassing for Phil.

Phil Jackson's Coaching Tree all-time record (Fisher, Rambis, Cartwright, Hamblen, Shaw, Cleamons)

253 wins 557 losses


Tom Thibodeau's all-time record

255 wins 139 losses


Tom Thibodeau has more wins than EVERY SINGLE TRIANGLE DISCIPLE EVER COMBINED.

No wonder Phil didn't want to talk to him.

Tom Thibodeau could lose every single game for FIVE STRAIGHT SEASONS (0-410) and still have a better record than Phil's disciples.

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crzymdups
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4/29/2016  9:48 AM
fishmike wrote:crzymdups.. maybe Phil knows the guy and simply hates him. You just don't have all the info. Unless you think Thibs should be doing here what he's doing in Sota, running the whole ship. Otherwise Phil is more important than Thibs, bottom line. He gets who he wants to get. Coaching means nothing if the FO relationship isn't great. We have seen this so many times. Calling Phil arrogant because he's doesn't interview someone he doesn't want to work with? Is it his show or not?

It's his show. But is he interested in the Knicks winning? Or is he interested in proving the Triangle works?

I don't give a flying **** about the Triangle. I'd like the Knicks to win a championship in my lifetime.

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Melo: "Thibs would've come here if he was offered the job. I know that for a fact."

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