BRIGGS wrote:

Nalod wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Paris907 wrote:Batum played well in a losing cause. I like Bazemore and he has grit. I suspect Phil won't want him

Im just trying to use common sense. Curry is 25 Bazemore 26 both are really good players. If we have to pay a little more for their services-who cares--whats the goal? To put good players on the floor who know how to play basketball. I think Gasol can be talked into coming here.

If we added Gasol Curry Bazemore and Valentine--look how much better we would be right away. We dont need to spend 20mm on a PG. Both San Antonio and GSW have good athletes not GREAT athletes. Id like to have a couple of top tier athletes for defense but Im perfectly happy with good smart players who work hard and fill in the blanks after. Build a smart skilled team first with high character and work ethic

Got to be careful here, this is the kind of thinking that got Layden in trouble. Overpaid role players who got starters salary.
Not saying there is 100% correlation here. The key is to get guys to play above their current levels by them putting in the work, and install a system that they can thrive in.

I can say Rolo has, KOQ has not and Derrik Williams went sideways.

Cap is going up to 115 in 2 years. Now I dont want to pay guys 20-26 mm unless their name is Durant. But contracts that run from 8-13mm--its simply the same as paying someone 4-7 mm on the last cap. Contracts that eat up 20% of you cap for say a Mike Conley--that is RISKY. Contracts that eat up 12mm or less will be fluid contracts manageable. Over paying a 300 pound Jerome James overpaying a one knee player in Amare overpaying an Eddy Curry thats trouble. Remember we paid Shanden Andersen in 2001 6 years 42mm--this is 15 years later with double the cap.

the cap isn't doubling so why are you doubling player salaries?

WaltLongmire wrote:Nice player who plays with some fire and is a tough defender, but he has never even averaged over 12PPG in a full season, and his 3pt shooting is average...nothing special.

When I look at his stats, I don't see much which indicates he is a game changer.

And for all the guys who like to shove WS48 in everybody's faces...please tell me how Bazemore has excelled in that statistic.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bazemke01.html

OK player...nothing special.

If you guys have the stats to show that I'm totally wrong- please let me know.

the advanced stats say that his TS% is a so=so 55%, his ball-sharing is not good for a swingman. his free throw attempts are trending down since his rookie season too. he is, however, an above average defender as well as a decent rebounder. if he came to the knicks it would be his 4th team in 5 seasons which to me is never a good sign.

i'd still prefer evan turner-- also a decent defender but a better playmaker-- but bazemore may be another derrick williams-like project.

WaltLongmire wrote:Nice player who plays with some fire and is a tough defender, but he has never even averaged over 12PPG in a full season, and his 3pt shooting is average...nothing special.

When I look at his stats, I don't see much which indicates he is a game changer.

And for all the guys who like to shove WS48 in everybody's faces...please tell me how Bazemore has excelled in that statistic.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bazemke01.html

OK player...nothing special.

If you guys have the stats to show that I'm totally wrong- please let me know.

Sometimes you have to look at how a player is developing and project where they can still grow. I agree that Baze hasn't produced at a high level this year. I prefer Evan Fournier but Bazemore is another option.

nixluva wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Nice player who plays with some fire and is a tough defender, but he has never even averaged over 12PPG in a full season, and his 3pt shooting is average...nothing special.

When I look at his stats, I don't see much which indicates he is a game changer.

And for all the guys who like to shove WS48 in everybody's faces...please tell me how Bazemore has excelled in that statistic.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bazemke01.html

OK player...nothing special.

If you guys have the stats to show that I'm totally wrong- please let me know.

Sometimes you have to look at how a player is developing and project where they can still grow. I agree that Baze hasn't produced at a high level this year. I prefer Evan Fournier but Bazemore is another option.

Absolutely 100% agree--this is with almost everything in life--you need to see potential to go to the next level. Seems like Walt wouldve tossed Hassan Whiteside to the curb. Pat Riley or Greg Popovich would just pick him up like he did with John Starks Mason Green etc.. There are those who see it and those who dont. Thats why we are the Knicks dont win championships or even enjoy the playoffs and the Heat and Spurs do.

WaltLongmire wrote:Nice player who plays with some fire and is a tough defender, but he has never even averaged over 12PPG in a full season, and his 3pt shooting is average...nothing special.

When I look at his stats, I don't see much which indicates he is a game changer.

And for all the guys who like to shove WS48 in everybody's faces...please tell me how Bazemore has excelled in that statistic.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bazemke01.html

OK player...nothing special.

If you guys have the stats to show that I'm totally wrong- please let me know.

The Knicks are NOT in a position to throw big money at a guy like Bazemore who may take another step and be very good or may simply be what he is... an NBDL player who looks good at times. Bazemore is 11th on that team in WS/48. He is probably the 5th or 6th "best" player on the Hawks. Spend Carrol type money and you are looking at Shandon Anderson part 2.

I would simply say what is your expectation? After you sign him to 4 years $45mm whats your vision for him? Starting SG? Seems like you are blowing a lot of cap space for a guy who doesn't move the needle much more than Afflalo does.

fishmike wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Nice player who plays with some fire and is a tough defender, but he has never even averaged over 12PPG in a full season, and his 3pt shooting is average...nothing special.

When I look at his stats, I don't see much which indicates he is a game changer.

And for all the guys who like to shove WS48 in everybody's faces...please tell me how Bazemore has excelled in that statistic.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bazemke01.html

OK player...nothing special.

If you guys have the stats to show that I'm totally wrong- please let me know.

no you are 100% right. You might see some retorts like "Walt would not have seen Whiteside's potential" which is totally silly.

The Knicks are NOT in a position to throw big money at a guy like Bazemore who may take another step and be very good or may simply be what he is... an NBDL player who looks good at times. Bazemore is 11th on that team in WS/48. He is probably the 5th or 6th "best" player on the Hawks. Spend Carrol type money and you are looking at Shandon Anderson part 2.

I would simply say what is your expectation? After you sign him to 4 years $45mm whats your vision for him? Starting SG? Seems like you are blowing a lot of cap space for a guy who doesn't move the needle much more than Afflalo does.

Perhaps you're right but there is also another aspect you overlook. That's Bazemore's defense. He's WAY better defensively than AA. When paired with Jerian and KP and RoLo that could have a great impact on this team's defense. So it's something to consider when talking about Bazemore. If you can't outscore em, stop em.

fishmike wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Nice player who plays with some fire and is a tough defender, but he has never even averaged over 12PPG in a full season, and his 3pt shooting is average...nothing special.

When I look at his stats, I don't see much which indicates he is a game changer.

And for all the guys who like to shove WS48 in everybody's faces...please tell me how Bazemore has excelled in that statistic.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bazemke01.html

OK player...nothing special.

If you guys have the stats to show that I'm totally wrong- please let me know.

no you are 100% right. You might see some retorts like "Walt would not have seen Whiteside's potential" which is totally silly.

The Knicks are NOT in a position to throw big money at a guy like Bazemore who may take another step and be very good or may simply be what he is... an NBDL player who looks good at times. Bazemore is 11th on that team in WS/48. He is probably the 5th or 6th "best" player on the Hawks. Spend Carrol type money and you are looking at Shandon Anderson part 2.

I would simply say what is your expectation? After you sign him to 4 years $45mm whats your vision for him? Starting SG? Seems like you are blowing a lot of cap space for a guy who doesn't move the needle much more than Afflalo does.

Yep. Pretty much. Guys like Bazemore look great when they play on a contender and excel in a bit role. The problem arises when teams sign them to $12 million a year like I saw someone post above. Then their value tanks. Bazemore is a nice piece at the min or a couple mil a year, but nothing about him is special enough to warrant being paid like a bonafide starter.

Is Bazemore better than Shumpert? I don't think he is and Im not a Shump fan.

The worst thing you can do build to be mediocre. I totally understand signing guys with upside and potential. Are we in a position to risk hurting our roster next year to do so? I don't think we are no...

he is far far more efficient.

would still agree overall to not spend big on him.

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Nice player who plays with some fire and is a tough defender, but he has never even averaged over 12PPG in a full season, and his 3pt shooting is average...nothing special.

When I look at his stats, I don't see much which indicates he is a game changer.

And for all the guys who like to shove WS48 in everybody's faces...please tell me how Bazemore has excelled in that statistic.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bazemke01.html

OK player...nothing special.

If you guys have the stats to show that I'm totally wrong- please let me know.

no you are 100% right. You might see some retorts like "Walt would not have seen Whiteside's potential" which is totally silly.

The Knicks are NOT in a position to throw big money at a guy like Bazemore who may take another step and be very good or may simply be what he is... an NBDL player who looks good at times. Bazemore is 11th on that team in WS/48. He is probably the 5th or 6th "best" player on the Hawks. Spend Carrol type money and you are looking at Shandon Anderson part 2.

I would simply say what is your expectation? After you sign him to 4 years $45mm whats your vision for him? Starting SG? Seems like you are blowing a lot of cap space for a guy who doesn't move the needle much more than Afflalo does.

Perhaps you're right but there is also another aspect you overlook. That's Bazemore's defense. He's WAY better defensively than AA. When paired with Jerian and KP and RoLo that could have a great impact on this team's defense. So it's something to consider when talking about Bazemore. If you can't outscore em, stop em.

Again... if you are in favor of adding him I ask what your expectation is? What do you see him impact being? What is our record this year with Bazemore over AA? We win 35 instead of 32? How much does this guy move the needle? Not enough to pay him 8 figures a year.

fishmike wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Nice player who plays with some fire and is a tough defender, but he has never even averaged over 12PPG in a full season, and his 3pt shooting is average...nothing special.

When I look at his stats, I don't see much which indicates he is a game changer.

And for all the guys who like to shove WS48 in everybody's faces...please tell me how Bazemore has excelled in that statistic.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bazemke01.html

OK player...nothing special.

If you guys have the stats to show that I'm totally wrong- please let me know.

no you are 100% right. You might see some retorts like "Walt would not have seen Whiteside's potential" which is totally silly.

The Knicks are NOT in a position to throw big money at a guy like Bazemore who may take another step and be very good or may simply be what he is... an NBDL player who looks good at times. Bazemore is 11th on that team in WS/48. He is probably the 5th or 6th "best" player on the Hawks. Spend Carrol type money and you are looking at Shandon Anderson part 2.

I would simply say what is your expectation? After you sign him to 4 years $45mm whats your vision for him? Starting SG? Seems like you are blowing a lot of cap space for a guy who doesn't move the needle much more than Afflalo does.

Perhaps you're right but there is also another aspect you overlook. That's Bazemore's defense. He's WAY better defensively than AA. When paired with Jerian and KP and RoLo that could have a great impact on this team's defense. So it's something to consider when talking about Bazemore. If you can't outscore em, stop em.

for the kind of money people are talking about coupled with his totally pedestrian offensive game the equation doesn't add up. Bazemore is a decent defender. He's not Tony Allen or Lenard.

Again... if you are in favor of adding him I ask what your expectation is? What do you see him impact being? What is our record this year with Bazemore over AA? We win 35 instead of 32? How much does this guy move the needle? Not enough to pay him 8 figures a year.

Player	        Age G   MP    PER   TS%  3PAr  FTr   ORB% DRB%  TRB% AST%  STL%	BLK% TOV%  USG%	OWS DWS	WS  WS/48  ORtg	DRtg
Arron Afflalo	30  71	2371  10.9  .531 .298  .164  1.1  11.0  6.1  9.9   0.5	0.3  8.7   17.9	1.8 0.9	2.7 .055   105	112
Kent Bazemore   26  75	2083  13.4  .551 .421  .208  1.5  18.0  9.9  12.7  2.3	1.4  14.8  20.0	0.3 3.8	4.1 .094   99	100

IMO it's more believable that Kent can improve his Offensive Efficiency at the same time giving the team MUCH better defense.

nixluva wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Nice player who plays with some fire and is a tough defender, but he has never even averaged over 12PPG in a full season, and his 3pt shooting is average...nothing special.

When I look at his stats, I don't see much which indicates he is a game changer.

And for all the guys who like to shove WS48 in everybody's faces...please tell me how Bazemore has excelled in that statistic.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bazemke01.html

OK player...nothing special.

If you guys have the stats to show that I'm totally wrong- please let me know.

Sometimes you have to look at how a player is developing and project where they can still grow. I agree that Baze hasn't produced at a high level this year. I prefer Evan Fournier but Bazemore is another option.

I like Bazemore as a defender and competitor...don't mind having somebody with some fire...just not willing to pay too much for him.

BRIGGS wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Nice player who plays with some fire and is a tough defender, but he has never even averaged over 12PPG in a full season, and his 3pt shooting is average...nothing special.

When I look at his stats, I don't see much which indicates he is a game changer.

And for all the guys who like to shove WS48 in everybody's faces...please tell me how Bazemore has excelled in that statistic.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bazemke01.html

OK player...nothing special.

If you guys have the stats to show that I'm totally wrong- please let me know.

no you are 100% right. You might see some retorts like "Walt would not have seen Whiteside's potential" which is totally silly.

The Knicks are NOT in a position to throw big money at a guy like Bazemore who may take another step and be very good or may simply be what he is... an NBDL player who looks good at times. Bazemore is 11th on that team in WS/48. He is probably the 5th or 6th "best" player on the Hawks. Spend Carrol type money and you are looking at Shandon Anderson part 2.

I would simply say what is your expectation? After you sign him to 4 years $45mm whats your vision for him? Starting SG? Seems like you are blowing a lot of cap space for a guy who doesn't move the needle much more than Afflalo does.

Yep. Pretty much. Guys like Bazemore look great when they play on a contender and excel in a bit role. The problem arises when teams sign them to $12 million a year like I saw someone post above. Then their value tanks. Bazemore is a nice piece at the min or a couple mil a year, but nothing about him is special enough to warrant being paid like a bonafide starter.

LOL!!!! Dude he is a bonafide starter on a 50 win team????? The guy had 23-8 in playoff game #1.???? 1-2mm per year--this isnt the Chinese league.