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nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
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knickscity wrote:nixluva wrote:knickscity wrote:nixluva wrote:knickscity wrote:nixluva wrote:knickscity wrote:nixluva wrote:Rondo might be being hasty in his assumptions. It may not be the PnR bonanza some teams run but the version we're running isn't totally devoid of PnR or creativity. A lot of titles won in this style. Does he want Titles or just to play his way? I would take it as a challenge if it was me. If you believe you're a great player then you should still be great no matter the system.Rondo doesn't seem to realize that most of the time he'd be running 2 man with MELO or KP!!! He doesn't have to even worry about the Side Triangle!
No he will not, some of the time he might...most? Not a chance. Rondo knows in this offense he'd be a limited player similar to Ron Harper was with the Bulls and most recently Gary Payton with the Lakers. PG's don't thrive in this system, none have. Gary Payton for instance couldn't even figure the system out because in his very own words.....
"You have to have players that can run a system like that. I did it in 2004 and it was not for me. I was used to coming off pick and rolls I couldn't do it. I had to go to this spot, I had to backdoor this way. And if you break down the play, Phil would be up screaming on you." The irony of Payton's quote is that he clearly does understand what to do in the triangle, but it didn't suit his game, because he was a different type of player just like Rondo is a different type. More importantly, I find it interesting that here is a player on record reportedly turning down the Knicks because of the system they play. As far as the rest of your post, it's ironic that Rondo has won a title against the very same system he knows he isn't a good fit for. he's seen up close and personal, twice. Sure, the triangle has won a lot of titles, but those players aren't in the league anymore and the coach doesn't coach anymore. We've also see the triangle when devoid of talent as well and it's lost every single time. To be factual the vaunted triangle two two L's WITH HOF talent too, both with Phil as coach with the Lakers. 04 and 08.
Its silly to bring up Harper playing with MJ n Pippen or Payton who was playing with Shaq, Kobe and Malone!!! There's no way he would be able to dominate the ball under those circumstances. So yes PEYTON's role would be reduced on a team that loaded! It's not the same with this team. We don't have a Kobe or Shaq! Rondo would indeed be used mostly on the weak side just like Shved. Moreover Payton and the Lakers did well. Losing in the Finals may have been disappointing but IT WAS THE NBA FINALS!!! Payton avgd 14.6/5.5 with a 49.8% efg which was 2nd highest on the team. Payton avgd 12.5 shots per game the 3rd most on the team. He was hardly held back by the system considering how much talent they had and his age of 35. As for Rondo I'm not saying he's a perfect Triangle guard but he is mistaken in his opinions of the system. You're wrong if you think Rondo would be forced to play away from the Pinch Post side of the floor. We don't have a Kobe so like Shved, Rondo would me more in more of an attack role rather than standing and watching like Fisher! The TRUTH is that this system is slightly different with each roster. The way they played with MJ, Pippen, Kukoc n Rodman is not the same as Kobe, Shaq or Kobe, Pau n Bynum. Rondo would learn the system from a much deeper perspective than you do just playing AGAINST IT. It's nowhere near the same level of understanding. If just playing against it was enough everyone would be an expert.
Not silly at at all. Previous to the Bulls, Harper was a 20ppg scorer, his role changed. As as Payton goes, it's not about dominating the ball, but exactly what he said, his game was pick and roll, which the triangle does not favor as much.And he said the system didn't fit him, his words, and if you watched that team despite stats...he struggled. Not really sure where you're getting the idea that thr triangle changed so much from team to team, there's plenty of vidoes of Kobe perfectly duplicating Jordans moves in the exact same sets. there's no variance there at all. Look Nix, I get it, you'll defend the system at all cost, you're entitled to that, but I'll take a professional players words who has played against the triangle and won a title against it over opinions any day. He said he wouldn't fit, and that's that. Rondo has a title, he doesn't need to be challenged. His team beat the triangle the first time they played against it. I think his opinion matters way more. Beating the Lakers in the Finals doesn't make Rondo an expert on the Triangle! As talented as he is there's no way he couldn't be successful if he applied himself. Sure Kobe looked a lot like MJ in the system, he was playing the same role but I can tell you that things were tweaked with each different roster Phil had. If you want we could go into detail on what the differences were but I already know for a fact that they featured different things depending on the make up of the roster. Harper and Payton reduced their roles out of necessity. It's called playing TEAM BALL. Both guards went to NBA Finals in this system. That is the real goal aside from winning it all. As I said in a previous post Rondo isn't what I'd call a perfect Triangle guard but that's not really necessary for him to be successful. Rondo is supposed to be a very intelligent player but IMO he's stubborn and that's the only reason he has issues with certain styles of play. So he would only be successful in NY if he bought in and really dedicated himself to the team. Also I'm not defending the Triangle at any cost. I just call it as I see it. if you can play then you can play. Blaming the system is BS!
The point was, he won against the triangle, he also lost as well, so what he has is professional highest level experience with it. that's the point.Some players just know a system isn't for them, I don't see why you find that concept baffling. I can name plenty of good players that would EASILY turn down the triangle offense, and the majority are point guards. On this board alone we talk "triangle fit", Rondo does NOT fit, but having him here would add a dynamic the team doesn't have, and it could very well branch the team out away from the triangling aspect. The dominant guard/wing role has not changed no matter where Phil has been involved, it's alwys been a key component of the triangle. it has a lot to do with why Afflalo is playing like he does, but obviously he's no Kobe, nor Jordan, but it's undeniable the sets looks similar. Rondo is intelligent and perhaps he has learned from what happened in Dallas. he's hardly stubborn because he knows this system isn't for him. AA is a SG so of course he's gonna play similar to MJ or Kobe but that doesn't mean all of Phil's teams played the same way! The MJ, Pippen teams had a different vibe from the Kobe, Pau teams or the Kobe, Shaq teams. This Knicks team has a different vibe with MELO and KP. Same system so of course there will be similarities but the system is flexible enough to make it work with various players. They could make it work with CP3 or Step Curry. They surely could make it work with Rondo. I think people really misunderstand what this system is about and have forgotten what it looks like when you have great talent or skill running it. MELO was looking great as a Point Forward!!! Some didn't believe MELO could ever play like this. Now just imagine having a bit more talent. The system isn't the issue. It always starts with the talent. Then the coach and staff has to tweak and adjust so the players are more successful. That process is still ongoing.
All of Phil's teams had that dominant guard role, every single one. of course some other aspects varied, but some remained constant...and that is one of them. That's was the point, not sure why you're on a tangent that I never said. I said, the guard/wing is a core component.
Nah, I seriously doubt CP3 or Curry would be as effective in this system, but you're entitled to think so, but it's all conjecture anyway.The point is a player has officially came out and stated he wont come here because of the system. that's really all there is so say. If CP3 or Curry were on the Knicks they most surely would be successful! They are great players and they would be great no matter what system they were in. If a guy like Shved could thrive in this system then obviously so could CP3 or Curry! They would not be held back. We just watched Jose have a good game by taking advantage of the many opportunities he ALWAYS has had but refused to take. In that same situation a CP3 or Curry would not hesitate to shoot or drive as Jose has tended to do. |
2/7/2016 1:07 PM