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Game thread TNT tonight Detroit and New York 7PM
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nixluva
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2/4/2016  10:30 PM
Cartman718 wrote:
Rookie wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
Rookie wrote:Melo 40min, aflallo 43 min, Lopez 35 min, good luck against Mem tomororrow assmonkeys

it's alluding to what someone else said earlier in this thread...fisher cannot run anything other than pure triangle. so he kept the players in that he thought could run it.
agreed on the mins thing with you though. tomorrow is looking like another bad loss.

i wasn't seeing a lot of triangle in the second half. Melo + pride is what i saw

hahah talk to nix about that...he's the self professed triangle expert on here.

I'll say this again for the millionth time, THERE IS MORE TO THE SYSTEM THAN THE SIDE TRIANGLE!!! Yes the core of what they run is purely Side Triangle in nature but there is more and most don't recognize when they use those other sets and actions. Then there are times guys just make a BBALL play not relying on any set play or action but mostly this team still uses the principles of the system even when it doesn't look overtly like Triangle.

Just look at the spacing of the other players on the MELO n RoLo Screen action. It actually started off with A typical Triangle spacing but RoLo came out to screen. This is nothing new. It's always an option. There's also a double screen option.

AUTOADVERT
Cartman718
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2/4/2016  10:32 PM
nixluva wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
Rookie wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
Rookie wrote:Melo 40min, aflallo 43 min, Lopez 35 min, good luck against Mem tomororrow assmonkeys

it's alluding to what someone else said earlier in this thread...fisher cannot run anything other than pure triangle. so he kept the players in that he thought could run it.
agreed on the mins thing with you though. tomorrow is looking like another bad loss.

i wasn't seeing a lot of triangle in the second half. Melo + pride is what i saw

hahah talk to nix about that...he's the self professed triangle expert on here.

I'll say this again for the millionth time, THERE IS MORE TO THE SYSTEM THAN THE SIDE TRIANGLE!!! Yes the core of what they run is purely Side Triangle in nature but there is more and most don't recognize when they use those other sets and actions. Then there are times guys just make a BBALL play not relying on any set play or action but mostly this team still uses the principles of the system even when it doesn't look overtly like Triangle.

Just look at the spacing of the other players on the MELO n RoLo Screen action. It actually started off with A typical Triangle spacing but RoLo came out to screen. This is nothing new. It's always an option. There's also a double screen option.

so you are just not going to respond to my post on previous page about ur "getting angry", just checking

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
nyknickzingis
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2/4/2016  10:34 PM
That's not an adjustment....he's been doing that all season...his assists were 3 in nov, 4 in dec, and 5 in jan.
the question is...what is fish's adjustment when melo is not in the game?

If he's starting Galloway - or if Galloway's playing with the starters, then Calderon should be used in the Melo role of the 2nd half when Melo sits. Next option is Grant. I trust Calderon for 16 minutes a game. Easily. He can run the same screen/rolls or 2 man games Melo was doing on the weakside or from the middle of the court at the top of the key. Calderon does it very well. The Calderon/Porzingis pick and roll if Porzingis is the 2nd unit's 5 man would be very very effective. Use Afflalo at the 2 posting up, D Will at the corner, Lance at the wing with Porzingis/Calderon playing a 2 man screen/roll or screen/pop game. Just move the ball and play smart basketball from there - find the open man if the defense takes your shots away.

Could be smart to run this rotation

Lopez/Porzingis/Melo/Afflalo/Galloway
Lopez/Melo/Thomas/Vujacic/Galloway
Porzingis/DWill/Thomas/Afflalo/Calderon

Thing they have to accept that they're 50+ games into the season and trying to run the Triangle as a motion offense where there's constant passing isn't working. Guys just don't get open enough in the motion. Better to overload one side with the sideline Triangle and run 2 man games on the opposite end with your point guard being one of them - point guard being either Melo, Galloway or Calderon. 2nd guy can literally be anyone but a big guy that can set a screen and be a scoring threat would probably work best (so either Lopez or Porzingis).

TPercy
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2/4/2016  10:35 PM
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:Notice how there was barely any triangle in the second half.

You mean Side Triangle??? The sets they ran are plays in the Triangle offense. This team doesn't just make ish up. They have other sets in this offense.


So constant pick and roll was is now part of the Triangle??
So the whole league runs the triangle?
The Future is Bright!
nixluva
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USA
2/4/2016  10:40 PM
Cartman718 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
Rookie wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
Rookie wrote:Melo 40min, aflallo 43 min, Lopez 35 min, good luck against Mem tomororrow assmonkeys

it's alluding to what someone else said earlier in this thread...fisher cannot run anything other than pure triangle. so he kept the players in that he thought could run it.
agreed on the mins thing with you though. tomorrow is looking like another bad loss.

i wasn't seeing a lot of triangle in the second half. Melo + pride is what i saw

hahah talk to nix about that...he's the self professed triangle expert on here.

I'll say this again for the millionth time, THERE IS MORE TO THE SYSTEM THAN THE SIDE TRIANGLE!!! Yes the core of what they run is purely Side Triangle in nature but there is more and most don't recognize when they use those other sets and actions. Then there are times guys just make a BBALL play not relying on any set play or action but mostly this team still uses the principles of the system even when it doesn't look overtly like Triangle.

Just look at the spacing of the other players on the MELO n RoLo Screen action. It actually started off with A typical Triangle spacing but RoLo came out to screen. This is nothing new. It's always an option. There's also a double screen option.

so you are just not going to respond to my post on previous page about ur "getting angry", just checking

If you have anything about BBALL to add then do so. Just cuz I used colorful language doesn't mean my points were wrong. You wanna talk about the points that's fine. Going on about me saying "guys are NUTZ" is really silly. Much worse is said.

TPercy
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2/4/2016  10:43 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/4/2016  10:46 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:Notice how there was barely any triangle in the second half.

You mean Side Triangle??? The sets they ran are plays in the Triangle offense. This team doesn't just make ish up. They have other sets in this offense.


They set up the sideline Tri - but not always. They were more focused on the 2 man game option or the weakwing iso option. This is what Phil would do when the offense would go dry in the playoffs and utilize Jordan or Kobe in what role Melo was doing. It's how you can succeed right now in the league and without very high IQ, accurate passers. The team they have right now does not have the passing skill or the IQ to run the motion version or go deep into the Triangle. So what they did in the 2nd half was set up the initial spacing, fill in the spots, and then go to work with screen/rolls or 2 man games on the weakside. Overload one side with a "triangle" but not abide the team to always play in motion as 2 triangles connected. If you understand what I'm trying to say - the difference is that in the 2nd half version it gives far more freedom to dribble penetration, or a guard dribbling and it doesn't force the players who have formed the triangle on the strong side to move. They can stay still and just look for a pass if open. It's a much much basic adapted "Triangle for dummies" version from what I could tell. Perfect for this team. They just don't have the brains, cohesion and passing skill to run the Triangle any other way.

The very core difference is that of the two versions, this one doesn't force them to constantly pass the ball. They can keep the ball longer, dribble - do more natural things that Melo, Galloway, Afflalo all like to do. Thing this is definitely the way for the team to run their offense moving forward. We could make a killing with either using Melo/Lopez screen/rolls on the weakside of the sideline Triangle or Melo/Porzingis pick/pop or roll options. Even Grant would greatly benefit if used in the 2 man game option.

Wow. Really good post here. Especially the bolded. ALthough Galloway had a great game, He often missed KP or Melo in the screen/role...Same thing can be said about Lopez of how he doesn't exactly see the whole floor although his passing has been a lot better as the season progressed.

The Future is Bright!
Cartman718
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2/4/2016  10:43 PM
nixluva wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
Rookie wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
Rookie wrote:Melo 40min, aflallo 43 min, Lopez 35 min, good luck against Mem tomororrow assmonkeys

it's alluding to what someone else said earlier in this thread...fisher cannot run anything other than pure triangle. so he kept the players in that he thought could run it.
agreed on the mins thing with you though. tomorrow is looking like another bad loss.

i wasn't seeing a lot of triangle in the second half. Melo + pride is what i saw

hahah talk to nix about that...he's the self professed triangle expert on here.

I'll say this again for the millionth time, THERE IS MORE TO THE SYSTEM THAN THE SIDE TRIANGLE!!! Yes the core of what they run is purely Side Triangle in nature but there is more and most don't recognize when they use those other sets and actions. Then there are times guys just make a BBALL play not relying on any set play or action but mostly this team still uses the principles of the system even when it doesn't look overtly like Triangle.

Just look at the spacing of the other players on the MELO n RoLo Screen action. It actually started off with A typical Triangle spacing but RoLo came out to screen. This is nothing new. It's always an option. There's also a double screen option.

so you are just not going to respond to my post on previous page about ur "getting angry", just checking

If you have anything about BBALL to add then do so. Just cuz I used colorful language doesn't mean my points were wrong. You wanna talk about the points that's fine. Going on about me saying "guys are NUTZ" is really silly. Much worse is said.

yeah you say worse all the time.

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
ChuckBuck
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2/4/2016  10:44 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/4/2016  10:44 PM
TPercy wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:Notice how there was barely any triangle in the second half.

You mean Side Triangle??? The sets they ran are plays in the Triangle offense. This team doesn't just make ish up. They have other sets in this offense.


So constant pick and roll was is now part of the Triangle??
So the whole league runs the triangle?

That's pretty much all they ran in the 2nd half. High PnR with Melo and RoLo.

They abandoned the triangle in the 2nd half to get back in the game.

nyknickzingis
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2/4/2016  10:44 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/4/2016  10:49 PM
TPercy wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:Notice how there was barely any triangle in the second half.

You mean Side Triangle??? The sets they ran are plays in the Triangle offense. This team doesn't just make ish up. They have other sets in this offense.


So constant pick and roll was is now part of the Triangle??
So the whole league runs the triangle?

No what he's saying is factually correct. What you have in the Triangle or the one Phil's teams have run is a basic sideline formation. You can call this the strong or overloaded side, since 3 guys are on this side. Think of the other side as the "weak" side and since there are only 2 players left, this is the 2 man game option side. What we did in the 2nd half was focus almost exclusively on this side. Run screen/rolls with Melo/Lopez. Galloway would have the ball and feed Melo. Or Melo would feed Afflalo in the post. These are all 2 players working with each other in either setting the other up with an isolation (or post up) or the screen/roll being run. The other 3 guys mostly stay in their spot in the sideline. If the player in the post in the sideline - his man if he leaves him, it's usually a wide open dunk for them as they can just cut straight under the basket (we saw this happen for some of the guys tonight).

Essentially this is also a version of the Triangle but it's the far far more predictable and less complicated one. It's also the type of sequence where you'd see more ball dribbling, or ball monopolization. This is basically how Kobe would go off for 30 points in a half. He'd just set himself up or have the team set him up again and again in the weakside and usually isolate again and again. And not a damn thing the opposing team could do because if they doubled he knew exactly where his teammates would be. It's the simplest and most naturally fitting way to run the sideline Triangle in the modern NBA. I don't think it will be at all easy for the Knicks to get free agents to come in and fit in or young players or even Melo to grasp the more complicated sets. Maybe after a couple of years. But again, you change a couple of teammates and you're right back to square one. Just much much easier to exploit the weakside/2 man game aspect of the Triangle offense set up. If ofcourse you have that sort of scoring wing player that can pass - which we certainly do in Melo.

I honestly can't see us run it any different unless we get a great big man post player who can pass. In that case then you can then form the sideline Triangle with that big inside, utilize his post game with post entry passes and run the basic motion. We try to do that a ton, and it usually ends up with Seraphin, Lopez, Porzingis or someone like that isolating or trying to make a pass (Only Porzingis has shown good passing instincts from a post position). With the talent the Knicks have right now, dumping the ball in the post in the sideline Triangle or trying to use the ball from strong side to weak rarely gets good shots for them. Just work the weakside, and to keep the defense guessing, keep changing/alternating who the 2 players who run the 2 man games are. Very simple for this team to grasp and they have the talent for it.

nixluva
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2/4/2016  10:45 PM
TPercy wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:Notice how there was barely any triangle in the second half.

You mean Side Triangle??? The sets they ran are plays in the Triangle offense. This team doesn't just make ish up. They have other sets in this offense.


So constant pick and roll was is now part of the Triangle??
So the whole league runs the triangle?

It's an option that they can use a lot or not! It's being run OUT OF THE TRIANGLE spacing so it's not the same as how other teams would run it. By necessity they can flow in and out of the Side Triangle and run PnR, Drag Screens, Double Screens etc.
TPercy
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2/4/2016  11:01 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:
TPercy wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:Notice how there was barely any triangle in the second half.

You mean Side Triangle??? The sets they ran are plays in the Triangle offense. This team doesn't just make ish up. They have other sets in this offense.


So constant pick and roll was is now part of the Triangle??
So the whole league runs the triangle?

No what he's saying is factually correct. What you have in the Triangle or the one Phil's teams have run is a basic sideline formation. You can call this the strong or overloaded side, since 3 guys are on this side. Think of the other side as the "weak" side and since there are only 2 players left, this is the 2 man game option side. What we did in the 2nd half was focus almost exclusively on this side. Run screen/rolls with Melo/Lopez. Galloway would have the ball and feed Melo. Or Melo would feed Afflalo in the post. These are all 2 players working with each other in either setting the other up with an isolation (or post up) or the screen/roll being run. The other 3 guys mostly stay in their spot in the sideline. If the player in the post in the sideline - his man if he leaves him, it's usually a wide open dunk for them as they can just cut straight under the basket (we saw this happen for some of the guys tonight).

Essentially this is also a version of the Triangle but it's the far far more predictable and less complicated one. It's also the type of sequence where you'd see more ball dribbling, or ball monopolization. This is basically how Kobe would go off for 30 points in a half. He'd just set himself up or have the team set him up again and again in the weakside and usually isolate again and again. And not a damn thing the opposing team could do because if they doubled he knew exactly where his teammates would be. It's the simplest and most naturally fitting way to run the sideline Triangle in the modern NBA. I don't think it will be at all easy for the Knicks to get free agents to come in and fit in or young players or even Melo to grasp the more complicated sets. Maybe after a couple of years. But again, you change a couple of teammates and you're right back to square one. Just much much easier to exploit the weakside/2 man game aspect of the Triangle offense set up. If ofcourse you have that sort of scoring wing player that can pass - which we certainly do in Melo.

I honestly can't see us run it any different unless we get a great big man post player who can pass. In that case then you can then form the sideline Triangle with that big inside, utilize his post game with post entry passes and run the basic motion. We try to do that a ton, and it usually ends up with Seraphin, Lopez, Porzingis or someone like that isolating or trying to make a pass (Only Porzingis has shown good passing instincts from a post position). With the talent the Knicks have right now, dumping the ball in the post in the sideline Triangle or trying to use the ball from strong side to weak rarely gets good shots for them. Just work the weakside, and to keep the defense guessing, keep changing/alternating who the 2 players who run the 2 man games are. Very simple for this team to grasp and they have the talent for it.

This is all good information but scoring in twos seems to be the main concept of the whole "side triangle" as it is with the rest of the league. The execution may differ but that is pretty much the more efficient and much more flexible option, yet we still try to force some outdated and much more complicated load of bs that is clearly not working and never will work.

We should really be moving as far away for the total triangle or whatever you want to call it. I don't see a positive outcome of it especially when you factor:
We don't have the personell for it
Melo, Lopez and Afflalo are only aging older
Our coach is still learning his trade.

The Future is Bright!
Rookie
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2/4/2016  11:15 PM
4 out 1 in motion, i'm out.
Kemet
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2/5/2016  12:04 PM
TPercy wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
TPercy wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:Notice how there was barely any triangle in the second half.

You mean Side Triangle??? The sets they ran are plays in the Triangle offense. This team doesn't just make ish up. They have other sets in this offense.


So constant pick and roll was is now part of the Triangle??
So the whole league runs the triangle?

No what he's saying is factually correct. What you have in the Triangle or the one Phil's teams have run is a basic sideline formation. You can call this the strong or overloaded side, since 3 guys are on this side. Think of the other side as the "weak" side and since there are only 2 players left, this is the 2 man game option side. What we did in the 2nd half was focus almost exclusively on this side. Run screen/rolls with Melo/Lopez. Galloway would have the ball and feed Melo. Or Melo would feed Afflalo in the post. These are all 2 players working with each other in either setting the other up with an isolation (or post up) or the screen/roll being run. The other 3 guys mostly stay in their spot in the sideline. If the player in the post in the sideline - his man if he leaves him, it's usually a wide open dunk for them as they can just cut straight under the basket (we saw this happen for some of the guys tonight).

Essentially this is also a version of the Triangle but it's the far far more predictable and less complicated one. It's also the type of sequence where you'd see more ball dribbling, or ball monopolization. This is basically how Kobe would go off for 30 points in a half. He'd just set himself up or have the team set him up again and again in the weakside and usually isolate again and again. And not a damn thing the opposing team could do because if they doubled he knew exactly where his teammates would be. It's the simplest and most naturally fitting way to run the sideline Triangle in the modern NBA. I don't think it will be at all easy for the Knicks to get free agents to come in and fit in or young players or even Melo to grasp the more complicated sets. Maybe after a couple of years. But again, you change a couple of teammates and you're right back to square one. Just much much easier to exploit the weakside/2 man game aspect of the Triangle offense set up. If ofcourse you have that sort of scoring wing player that can pass - which we certainly do in Melo.

I honestly can't see us run it any different unless we get a great big man post player who can pass. In that case then you can then form the sideline Triangle with that big inside, utilize his post game with post entry passes and run the basic motion. We try to do that a ton, and it usually ends up with Seraphin, Lopez, Porzingis or someone like that isolating or trying to make a pass (Only Porzingis has shown good passing instincts from a post position). With the talent the Knicks have right now, dumping the ball in the post in the sideline Triangle or trying to use the ball from strong side to weak rarely gets good shots for them. Just work the weakside, and to keep the defense guessing, keep changing/alternating who the 2 players who run the 2 man games are. Very simple for this team to grasp and they have the talent for it.

This is all good information but scoring in twos seems to be the main concept of the whole "side triangle" as it is with the rest of the league. The execution may differ but that is pretty much the more efficient and much more flexible option, yet we still try to force some outdated and much more complicated load of bs that is clearly not working and never will work.

We should really be moving as far away for the total triangle or whatever you want to call it. I don't see a positive outcome of it especially when you factor:
We don't have the personell for it
Melo, Lopez and Afflalo are only aging older
Our coach is still learning his trade.


In the final 6 minutes of the game .. Lopez n Gallo showed-up wid a consistent effort in hustle for a win.
PG ISO-Melo is still a C- minus average as a Closer (need to past-first!!!).
SG Afflalo 44 games performance still hasn't prove he is a Closer for us

Game thread TNT tonight Detroit and New York 7PM

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