Their was a certain chemistry with the 2012-13 roster that worked and that we need to try and recapture this season. IMO the vets had a very strong set of intangibles as well as on court impact early on. However, it still was the strength of the performances of the core that made a huge difference. When the team faltered in 2013-14 the lack of leadership and focus was a huge problem. The Core did not perform at the same level as the previous year. There was a lack of stability.

2012-13 Knicks 54-28
PLAYER	                GP	GS	MIN	PPG	OFFR	DEFR	RPG	APG	SPG	BPG	TPG	FPG	A/TO	PER
Carmelo Anthony, SF	67	67	37.0	28.7	2.0	4.9	6.9	2.6	0.78	0.48	2.6	3.1	1.0	24.8
J.R. Smith, SG	        80	0	33.5	18.1	0.8	4.5	5.3	2.7	1.25	0.30	1.7	2.8	1.6	17.7
Raymond Felton, PG	68	68	34.0	13.9	0.8	2.1	2.9	5.5	1.38	0.21	2.3	1.9	2.4	15.2
Tyson Chandler, C	66	66	32.8	10.4	4.1	6.6	10.7	0.9	0.64	1.14	1.3	2.8	0.7	18.9
Jason Kidd, PG	        76	48	26.9	6.0	0.7	3.6	4.3	3.3	1.64	0.33	1.0	1.6	3.3	13.5

2013-14 Knicks 37-45
PLAYER	                GP	GS	MIN	PPG	OFFR	DEFR	RPG	APG	SPG	BPG	TPG	FPG	A/TO	PER
Carmelo Anthony, SF	77	77	38.7	27.4	1.9	6.2	8.1	3.1	1.23	0.66	2.6	2.9	1.2	24.5
J.R. Smith, SG	        74	37	32.7	14.5	0.5	3.5	4.0	3.0	0.88	0.27	1.5	2.6	2.0	14.0
Raymond Felton, PG	65	65	31.0	9.7	0.8	2.2	3.0	5.6	1.20	0.42	2.0	2.4	2.8	12.9
Tyson Chandler, C	55	55	30.2	8.7	2.9	6.7	9.6	1.1	0.65	1.15	1.3	2.6	0.8	16.5
Iman Shumpert, SG	74	58	26.5	6.7	1.1	3.1	4.2	1.7	1.24	0.18	1.1	2.8	1.6	9.7

Of course last season was a complete failure as the core never developed and Melo was injured.

I believe this new core can be very solid for this team. I believe we can expect them to perform better than the core did in 2013-14 when the team won 37 games.

I believe that RoLo can give us a little better production than Tyson did in 2013-14. I believe the same goes for Afflalo, Jose, Jerian and Gallo. I believe they can give us more than our guards did in 2013-14. IMO this core group is stronger than what we had in the 37 win season.
I don't believe we should expect a normal progression for a team with as poor a record as 17-65. I believe it will be a major jump in wins over last year.

One big problem with the 2013-14 team was the turmoil that was started by Dolan and went down the chain. Woodson was not at his best due to the mind games of Dolan. Felton had his own issues off the court as did Tyson. Shump was mad at the world and not focused. JR smith was JR! Yet that team won 37 games!!! I don't see any of those kinds of negative influences for this coming season.

As for the rest of the lower half of the East the Knicks will be competing with, I think there are some teams that have been making some strides but not to the point where they'd make it impossible for the Knicks to compete with them.

The ESPN predictions for this year may or may not be accurate but I will use them to at least show the competition the Knicks have for the last 3 spots in the playoffs. I think there's a lot more parity at the back end of the East. I actually think Paul George and Melo are the best players left among the teams in this grouping. I think that could give the Knicks and Pacers an advantage in this season.

6. Toronto Raptors   7. Milwaukee Bucks    8. Boston Celtics
Proj. record: 44-38  Proj. record: 44-38   Proj. record: 40-42
Last season: 49-33   Last season: 41-41    Last season: 40-42
9. Indiana Pacers     10. Charlotte Hornets   11. Detroit Pistons   12. Brooklyn Nets    13. Orlando Magic    14. New York Knicks
Proj. record: 39-43   Proj. record: 35-47     Proj. record: 35-47   Proj. record: 30-52  Proj. record: 30-52  Proj. record: 25-57
Last season: 38-44    Last season: 33-49      Last season: 32-50    Last season: 38-44   Last season: 25-57   Last season: 17-65

The team currently is decent, nothing more, just a step above what the team was before. To expect more than that is a classic setup for disappointment, but if they do more then we'll all enjoy that.

EnySpree wrote:

knickscity wrote:The main issue is that this core isnt as good as the 54 win team core, nor does it have the vets or the experience, and it isnt as good as the team that won 37 either At this point I cant even say Fisher is a good coach, but Woodson has shown he is a good coach. Other than his last year when he was a lame duck, the Knicks won alot of games under him, and even in that season he won 37 and missed the playoffs by a game with quite a few injuries to his core. This team will likely lose it's composure under it's first losing streak and may not recover because there is no veteran leadership at all, hopefully they dont start the season with losses. If they do...it's a wrap.

The team currently is decent, nothing more, just a step above what the team was before. To expect more than that is a classic setup for disappointment, but if they do more then we'll all enjoy that.

So it's better to set yourself up to fail?

First off the team hasn't played together yet. We don't know what they will do. Lose their composure? Why cuz we don't have 40 year olds on the roster?

I think we all can agree we have alot of question marks, but you can't make stiff up because you are afraid to cheer for your team.

That 37 win team to me had me beyond pissed. I never been that angry at the Knicks. Today is not that day. We don't have a group of crybabies. Only people crying is fans and Stephen A Smith.

Let's play a game before the doom and gloom. Until then it's ok to be excited. Group hug?

I find you response odd at best, I siad they will LIKELY lose their composure, you question that, but make note they have question marks. I just find that odd. I dont care if these players cry or sing, if they are learning growing and competing they can do whatever.

knickscity wrote:The main issue is that this core isnt as good as the 54 win team core, nor does it have the vets or the experience, and it isnt as good as the team that won 37 either At this point I cant even say Fisher is a good coach, but Woodson has shown he is a good coach. Other than his last year when he was a lame duck, the Knicks won alot of games under him, and even in that season he won 37 and missed the playoffs by a game with quite a few injuries to his core. This team will likely lose it's composure under it's first losing streak and may not recover because there is no veteran leadership at all, hopefully they dont start the season with losses. If they do...it's a wrap.

The team currently is decent, nothing more, just a step above what the team was before. To expect more than that is a classic setup for disappointment, but if they do more then we'll all enjoy that.

2013-14 Knicks 37-45
PLAYER	                GP	GS	MIN	PPG	OFFR	DEFR	RPG	APG	SPG	BPG	TPG	FPG	A/TO	PER
Carmelo Anthony, SF	77	77	38.7	27.4	1.9	6.2	8.1	3.1	1.23	0.66	2.6	2.9	1.2	24.5
J.R. Smith, SG	        74	37	32.7	14.5	0.5	3.5	4.0	3.0	0.88	0.27	1.5	2.6	2.0	14.0
Raymond Felton, PG	65	65	31.0	9.7	0.8	2.2	3.0	5.6	1.20	0.42	2.0	2.4	2.8	12.9
Tyson Chandler, C	55	55	30.2	8.7	2.9	6.7	9.6	1.1	0.65	1.15	1.3	2.6	0.8	16.5
Iman Shumpert, SG	74	58	26.5	6.7	1.1	3.1	4.2	1.7	1.24	0.18	1.1	2.8	1.6	9.7

2015-16 Knicks Estimate based on 2013-14 stats.
Carmelo Anthony          77	77	38.7	27.4	1.9	6.2	8.1	3.1	1.23	0.66	2.6	2.9	1.2	24.5
Arron Afflalo            73	73	35.0	18.2	0.4	3.2	3.6	3.4	0.48	0.04	2.0	1.9	1.7	16.1
Robin Lopez, C	         82	82	31.8	11.1	4.0	4.5	8.5	0.9	0.30	1.70	1.0	2.4	0.9	17.7
Jose Calderon            81	81	30.5	11.4	0.4	2.0	2.4	4.7	0.85	0.14	1.3	1.7	3.7	15.2
Jerian Grant             We need Jerian to match or exceed the production Shumpert had in 2013-14.  I believe he has the talent to do that.

I actually like the role players and young vets that we've added in terms of their character and leadership. We don't have to have guys who are pushing 40 in order to have the kind of leadership this team needs to compete for a playoff spot.

As a side note i'm not suggesting that Melo actually avg. 38 mpg.

doomed wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:Im glad most of the team is good character guys. Hopefully melo buys in and doesnt cause any waves but other than that i agree. Should be a good transition year into the future

When has Melo every created waves?

Melo's Bipolar personality. First he fights his teammates:

Anthony, according to sources, then used another expletive in telling Hardaway he was going to beat him up when they got into the locker room after the game. …

“Nobody’s taken a swing at anybody, but there’s a lot of arguing and cursing each other out after games,” one source said. …

Several Knicks, in addition to Hardaway, are at odds with Anthony and believe he’s not playing team basketball. Sources said players voiced their displeasure with Anthony this past weekend, telling him he shoots too much, doesn’t move or pass the ball, and only plays defense when he feels like it. …

“Guys are definitely frustrated,” one source said. “But some of it’s just basketball stuff that the players don’t like doing. When somebody’s demanding that you make a hard cut, you don’t like it because you have to work harder. When someone says it’s not okay to throw a bull—- pass, guys don’t like it.”

Then he's angry because they traded his punching bags away:

"I was talking to my sources last night. All they said was, he's furious, he's livid," Smith said of Anthony. "He feels completely hoodwinked and betrayed by Phil Jackson. He feels like he was lied to."

Hopefully he takes the right combination of meds to quell his BPD ways! We're pulling for you #StayMe7o