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knicks don't have one trouble maker
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EnySpree
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8/29/2015  6:23 AM
That hasn't been the case since Isiah came to town.

The one guy I can see making waves believe it or not is Kevin Seraphin. The kid is good and deserves a legit chance at big minutes this year. But he's never been one to complain. That's only 1 out of 15 guys.

I think this locker room will be the most professional we've had since the 90s. Not talking about talent. The atmosphere will be all about basketball. Lots of hard workers. Lots guys that have a reputation for being real pros.

I think the guys that will hand the biggest impact in the leadership department will be Calderón, Vujacic, Afflalo, Lance, and Lou. The rest of the roster is full of soldier types.

I'm anxious to see this group in training camp.

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StarksEwing1
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8/29/2015  9:12 AM
Im glad most of the team is good character guys. Hopefully melo buys in and doesnt cause any waves but other than that i agree. Should be a good transition year into the future
nixluva
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8/29/2015  10:50 AM
I'm not the least bit worried about Melo!!! He just wants to win and I see a man who is fully bought into what's going on. He's working on his footwork IN THE SYSTEM and that is a huge thing. The more you work on the fundamentals and it becomes second nature the better. I believe that Melo like Jordan understands now how he can score in this system and is embracing that role.

The new guys are bringing a more positive attitude as some did last year on a smaller scale. They also are known to be hard working types, which will enhance the work ethic of the entire roster. When as a coach you have guys who naturally work hard it makes your job so much easier.

NYKBocker
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8/29/2015  11:14 AM
nixluva wrote:I'm not the least bit worried about Melo!!! He just wants to win and I see a man who is fully bought into what's going on. He's working on his footwork IN THE SYSTEM and that is a huge thing. The more you work on the fundamentals and it becomes second nature the better. I believe that Melo like Jordan understands now how he can score in this system and is embracing that role.

The new guys are bringing a more positive attitude as some did last year on a smaller scale. They also are known to be hard working types, which will enhance the work ethic of the entire roster. When as a coach you have guys who naturally work hard it makes your job so much easier.

I hop you are right about Melo. Like any year before thus year...we only go as far as Melo can take us.

nixluva
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8/29/2015  11:54 AM
NYKBocker wrote:
nixluva wrote:I'm not the least bit worried about Melo!!! He just wants to win and I see a man who is fully bought into what's going on. He's working on his footwork IN THE SYSTEM and that is a huge thing. The more you work on the fundamentals and it becomes second nature the better. I believe that Melo like Jordan understands now how he can score in this system and is embracing that role.

The new guys are bringing a more positive attitude as some did last year on a smaller scale. They also are known to be hard working types, which will enhance the work ethic of the entire roster. When as a coach you have guys who naturally work hard it makes your job so much easier.

I hop you are right about Melo. Like any year before thus year...we only go as far as Melo can take us.


We certainly need a healthy and bought in Melo, but I kind of disagree about us going only ass far as he takes us. It's really not Melo that makes the biggest difference in the end. We already know what he brings, but the difference is what we get from the guard position. When we won 54 games it was the performance from the guards. Felton, Kidd, JR in particular. Kidd wasn't so much about his individual scoring as it was about his defense and moving the ball. Aside from Kidd's ball movement and D the main reasons for the Knicks success was the production we got from JR, Felton and Tyson.


PLAYER GP GS MIN PPG OFFR DEFR RPG APG SPG BPG TPG FPG A/TO PER
Carmelo Anthony, SF 67 67 37.0 28.7 2.0 4.9 6.9 2.6 0.78 0.48 2.6 3.1 1.0 24.8
J.R. Smith, SG 80 0 33.5 18.1 0.8 4.5 5.3 2.7 1.25 0.30 1.7 2.8 1.6 17.7
Raymond Felton, PG 68 68 34.0 13.9 0.8 2.1 2.9 5.5 1.38 0.21 2.3 1.9 2.4 15.2
Tyson Chandler, C 66 66 32.8 10.4 4.1 6.6 10.7 0.9 0.64 1.14 1.3 2.8 0.7 18.9

I believe we can get much of what Kidd, JR, Felton and Tyson gave us from Afflalo, RoLo, Jose and Jerian. IMO these are the key players for this coming season. If these players can come close to matching the production and overall play of Kidd, JR, Felton and Tyson this team will be very good this year.
I feel good that this group of Melo, Afflalo, RoLo, Jose and Jerian can be pretty solid in their own way. They have to be the core and allow everyone else to fill in around them.

knicks1248
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8/29/2015  12:06 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:Im glad most of the team is good character guys. Hopefully melo buys in and doesnt cause any waves but other than that i agree. Should be a good transition year into the future

why would this even be a question, I'm mean serious.

If the losing continues, it will be more on the coaching staff

ES
holfresh
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8/29/2015  12:42 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:Im glad most of the team is good character guys. Hopefully melo buys in and doesnt cause any waves but other than that i agree. Should be a good transition year into the future

why would this even be a question, I'm mean serious.

If the losing continues, it will be more on the coaching staff


He is in the closet about his Melo hate..I thought when Caitlyn came out it would help others but apparently it's a slow process...
StarksEwing1
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8/29/2015  1:11 PM
holfresh wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:Im glad most of the team is good character guys. Hopefully melo buys in and doesnt cause any waves but other than that i agree. Should be a good transition year into the future

why would this even be a question, I'm mean serious.

If the losing continues, it will be more on the coaching staff


He is in the closet about his Melo hate..I thought when Caitlyn came out it would help others but apparently it's a slow process...
not really. I was basically joking about all the news outlets that keep saying that same thing. Basically what i meant is guys like frank isola or stephen a smith will cause trouble...not the players
CrushAlot
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8/29/2015  1:14 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:Im glad most of the team is good character guys. Hopefully melo buys in and doesnt cause any waves but other than that i agree. Should be a good transition year into the future

why would this even be a question, I'm mean serious.

If the losing continues, it will be more on the coaching staff


He is in the closet about his Melo hate..I thought when Caitlyn came out it would help others but apparently it's a slow process...
not really. I was basically joking about all the news outlets that keep saying that same thing. Basically what i meant is guys like frank isola or stephen a smith will cause trouble...not the players
Gotta include Araton in the group of guys that stir things up. Heard he is running a story based on an interview with George Karl and what Derrick Williams may have been communicating to Melo in his summer league interview.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
StarksEwing1
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8/29/2015  1:18 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:Im glad most of the team is good character guys. Hopefully melo buys in and doesnt cause any waves but other than that i agree. Should be a good transition year into the future

why would this even be a question, I'm mean serious.

If the losing continues, it will be more on the coaching staff


He is in the closet about his Melo hate..I thought when Caitlyn came out it would help others but apparently it's a slow process...
not really. I was basically joking about all the news outlets that keep saying that same thing. Basically what i meant is guys like frank isola or stephen a smith will cause trouble...not the players
Gotta include Araton in the group of guys that stir things up. Heard he is running a story based on an interview with George Karl and what Derrick Williams may have been communicating to Melo in his summer league interview.
true. Usually i ignore it but i feel this offseason has been worse. I understand we didnt get a top free agents but we got a bunch of solid role players and 2 top 15 prospects from the draft. I dont expect us to be great this year but we should at least double our win total from last year
dk7th
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8/29/2015  1:45 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:Im glad most of the team is good character guys. Hopefully melo buys in and doesnt cause any waves but other than that i agree. Should be a good transition year into the future

why would this even be a question, I'm mean serious.

If the losing continues, it will be more on the coaching staff


He is in the closet about his Melo hate..I thought when Caitlyn came out it would help others but apparently it's a slow process...
not really. I was basically joking about all the news outlets that keep saying that same thing. Basically what i meant is guys like frank isola or stephen a smith will cause trouble...not the players
Gotta include Araton in the group of guys that stir things up. Heard he is running a story based on an interview with George Karl and what Derrick Williams may have been communicating to Melo in his summer league interview.

this was some of araton's finest work and is a great summation of the knicks situation vis a vis melo. definitely a worthy read.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/16/sports/basketball/if-you-read-phil-jacksons-mind-carmelo-anthony-is-in-small-type.html?ref=topics

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
CrushAlot
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8/29/2015  1:56 PM
dk7th wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:Im glad most of the team is good character guys. Hopefully melo buys in and doesnt cause any waves but other than that i agree. Should be a good transition year into the future

why would this even be a question, I'm mean serious.

If the losing continues, it will be more on the coaching staff


He is in the closet about his Melo hate..I thought when Caitlyn came out it would help others but apparently it's a slow process...
not really. I was basically joking about all the news outlets that keep saying that same thing. Basically what i meant is guys like frank isola or stephen a smith will cause trouble...not the players
Gotta include Araton in the group of guys that stir things up. Heard he is running a story based on an interview with George Karl and what Derrick Williams may have been communicating to Melo in his summer league interview.

this was some of araton's finest work and is a great summation of the knicks situation vis a vis melo. definitely a worthy read.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/16/sports/basketball/if-you-read-phil-jacksons-mind-carmelo-anthony-is-in-small-type.html?ref=topics

Can't wait for part two. There has to be something to the way Williams was acting when he was interviewed in the summer league. Maybe his disinterest was because Melo hadn't called him or because Melo didn't show up for his contract signing. Maybe that is why he was missing in Puerto Rico. I can't wait for Araton to take an educated guess on what Derrick Williams is thinking. I also am anxiously waiting for him to guess on what it means that some Knicks weren't present in Puerto Rico, or why some guys only came for one day. Wasn't it the right thing to do to go. Just one day?
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
GustavBahler
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8/29/2015  3:07 PM
Unfortunately we've had a franchise in the past which enabled bad behavior. Thats what getting rid of JR was all about. I dont believe Jackson is looking for choir boys, just players without the drama.

Hopefully Phil will cut down on the trash talking via the media, cut down on his own needless drama, then things will really be looking up.

EnySpree
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8/29/2015  3:08 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:Im glad most of the team is good character guys. Hopefully melo buys in and doesnt cause any waves but other than that i agree. Should be a good transition year into the future

why would this even be a question, I'm mean serious.

If the losing continues, it will be more on the coaching staff

I agree. The offense is not for Melo To buy in. It's for everyone else to buy in. Melo can function in any offense. It's about getting guys organized. Once Melo gets comfortable the basket is going to look like an ocean to him.

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EnySpree
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8/29/2015  3:18 PM
GustavBahler wrote:Unfortunately we've had a franchise in the past which enabled bad behavior. Thats what getting rid of JR was all about. I dont believe Jackson is looking for choir boys, just players without the drama.

Hopefully Phil will cut down on the trash talking via the media, cut down on his own needless drama, then things will really be looking up.

Phil said in his press conference when he got the job that he will basically be ****ing with the media. He's done that. Alot of smoke and distractions to get them writing. Like frank isola went off the deep end about goink or whatever the word was Phil made up. Looking back at all the moves Phil has done versus the moves the media said he was going to do, i really think this is all a part of the Zen master plan.

we've definitely gotten rid of guys that have agendas. All the guys we have now all expressed a desire to succeed on the court. They ate people that are family oriented and hard workers.

I'm very excited.

Phil even set the salaries up in such a way that we can move guys very easily. As of right now we have a **** load of bigs. All very talented and on the cusp of reaching their potential. Good place to be for us

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dk7th
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8/29/2015  6:03 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:Im glad most of the team is good character guys. Hopefully melo buys in and doesnt cause any waves but other than that i agree. Should be a good transition year into the future

why would this even be a question, I'm mean serious.

If the losing continues, it will be more on the coaching staff


He is in the closet about his Melo hate..I thought when Caitlyn came out it would help others but apparently it's a slow process...
not really. I was basically joking about all the news outlets that keep saying that same thing. Basically what i meant is guys like frank isola or stephen a smith will cause trouble...not the players
Gotta include Araton in the group of guys that stir things up. Heard he is running a story based on an interview with George Karl and what Derrick Williams may have been communicating to Melo in his summer league interview.

this was some of araton's finest work and is a great summation of the knicks situation vis a vis melo. definitely a worthy read.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/16/sports/basketball/if-you-read-phil-jacksons-mind-carmelo-anthony-is-in-small-type.html?ref=topics

Can't wait for part two. There has to be something to the way Williams was acting when he was interviewed in the summer league. Maybe his disinterest was because Melo hadn't called him or because Melo didn't show up for his contract signing. Maybe that is why he was missing in Puerto Rico. I can't wait for Araton to take an educated guess on what Derrick Williams is thinking. I also am anxiously waiting for him to guess on what it means that some Knicks weren't present in Puerto Rico, or why some guys only came for one day. Wasn't it the right thing to do to go. Just one day?

i saw nothing wrong in the substance of what araton wrote. you're taking him to task for couching it as a mind-reading exercise, when in reality it is merely a rhetorical device to make several very salient points about your hero melo, properly upbraiding him, and in fact echoing exactly what the hypocrisies are surrounding melo that i have made clear to you over months and months.

sorry the truth hurts you. melo gets his money but at a cost. lets see if he is a big boy this season. does he go the marbury route or....?

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
TripleThreat
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8/29/2015  6:04 PM
EnySpree wrote:we've definitely gotten rid of guys that have agendas. All the guys we have now all expressed a desire to succeed on the court. They ate people that are family oriented and hard workers.

I'm very excited.

Phil even set the salaries up in such a way that we can move guys very easily.

When Melo continued to play to make sure he played in the All Star game for his branding, doing so because he knew he had that long term Knicks deal he signed to fall back on, plus his No Trade Clause, did that fit

A) The Knicks "agenda" for winning and it's long term future?

or

B) Melo's own personal agenda?


Also, Melo has a No Trade Clause. Phil Jackson has tried to trade Calderon from the time he traded for him, no one wants him. No one. Of the major free agent signings, Derrick Williams and Aaron Affalo have team options for next year. If Affalo outplays his contract, the Knicks lose a cost controlled wing. Or if he gets hurt, he cashes in and rehabs on the Knicks time and dime. I don't care how much the cap goes up in the future, no team is going to trade for Derrick Williams and his ability to inflict a 5 million cap hit on their team next season unless he's part of a bigger trade scenario needing a salary match.

Giving Affalo a player option is one thing ( given the valuation of wings in the modern NBA marketplace)

Giving one to Derrick Williams really makes no sense at all.

Robin Lopez and O'Quinn can be useful to another team. But moving them guts the Knicks ( who are already thin on the perimeter) and starts them at Square 1 at the pivot position next year, without said draft pick to bank on.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion and on and on and on and politically correct blurb and so forth, but here's what I see.

IF General Grant and/or Zinger break out and fans are cheering MVP for them and they are getting all the press love and companies start to get interested in them and they do the entire "Mark Sanchez Tour Of New York" thing as young players on a team in a giant media market, do you think Melo at all will be pleased? Or will he do as he always has - sulk, coach kill, freeze out other players and use his media cronies to lay down passive aggressive attacks.

Entering his 13th season, Melo has consistently, over the course of his career and over 30K minutes played, simply not cared about defense. When he doesn't care/doesn't try/worries about his branding and another NBA player torches him like a walking turnstile on defense, and then Fisher doesn't bench him, that will continue to do what it always does - sap morale from the team.

Do I hope Zinger and Grant pan out? Yes. Do I hope that Hernangomez guy develops and pans out in the future? Yes.

Do I hope Affalo and Lopez pan out to their expected baselines? Yes

As a pure shot in the dark, do I hope Derrick Williams finds some kind of useful rotation niche and helps this team? Yes ( but it probably won't happen)

But what I won't do is hope for things that time and pressure have established otherwise.

This was a 17 win team last year, with real systematic and administrative problems all along the organization. ( bad owner, first year coach, controversial offense, geriatric rookie team president, etc) Can it be better? Sure, but there was nowhere to go but up from last year.

You can make lemonade out of lemons, you can't however make a five course gourmet meal out of them overnight.

It's not "optimism" if it denies any type of "pragmatism" Then again, some of you just don't care. But then again, we all have a right to an opinion.

StarksEwing1
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8/29/2015  6:11 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
EnySpree wrote:we've definitely gotten rid of guys that have agendas. All the guys we have now all expressed a desire to succeed on the court. They ate people that are family oriented and hard workers.

I'm very excited.

Phil even set the salaries up in such a way that we can move guys very easily.

When Melo continued to play to make sure he played in the All Star game for his branding, doing so because he knew he had that long term Knicks deal he signed to fall back on, plus his No Trade Clause, did that fit

A) The Knicks "agenda" for winning and it's long term future?

or

B) Melo's own personal agenda?


Also, Melo has a No Trade Clause. Phil Jackson has tried to trade Calderon from the time he traded for him, no one wants him. No one. Of the major free agent signings, Derrick Williams and Aaron Affalo have team options for next year. If Affalo outplays his contract, the Knicks lose a cost controlled wing. Or if he gets hurt, he cashes in and rehabs on the Knicks time and dime. I don't care how much the cap goes up in the future, no team is going to trade for Derrick Williams and his ability to inflict a 5 million cap hit on their team next season unless he's part of a bigger trade scenario needing a salary match.

Giving Affalo a player option is one thing ( given the valuation of wings in the modern NBA marketplace)

Giving one to Derrick Williams really makes no sense at all.

Robin Lopez and O'Quinn can be useful to another team. But moving them guts the Knicks ( who are already thin on the perimeter) and starts them at Square 1 at the pivot position next year, without said draft pick to bank on.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion and on and on and on and politically correct blurb and so forth, but here's what I see.

IF General Grant and/or Zinger break out and fans are cheering MVP for them and they are getting all the press love and companies start to get interested in them and they do the entire "Mark Sanchez Tour Of New York" thing as young players on a team in a giant media market, do you think Melo at all will be pleased? Or will he do as he always has - sulk, coach kill, freeze out other players and use his media cronies to lay down passive aggressive attacks.

Entering his 13th season, Melo has consistently, over the course of his career and over 30K minutes played, simply not cared about defense. When he doesn't care/doesn't try/worries about his branding and another NBA player torches him like a walking turnstile on defense, and then Fisher doesn't bench him, that will continue to do what it always does - sap morale from the team.

Do I hope Zinger and Grant pan out? Yes. Do I hope that Hernangomez guy develops and pans out in the future? Yes.

Do I hope Affalo and Lopez pan out to their expected baselines? Yes

As a pure shot in the dark, do I hope Derrick Williams finds some kind of useful rotation niche and helps this team? Yes ( but it probably won't happen)

But what I won't do is hope for things that time and pressure have established otherwise.

This was a 17 win team last year, with real systematic and administrative problems all along the organization. ( bad owner, first year coach, controversial offense, geriatric rookie team president, etc) Can it be better? Sure, but there was nowhere to go but up from last year.

You can make lemonade out of lemons, you can't however make a five course gourmet meal out of them overnight.

It's not "optimism" if it denies any type of "pragmatism" Then again, some of you just don't care. But then again, we all have a right to an opinion.

great post. Big props to being fair. I can tell you are a bigtime knick fan but you have no problem being brutally honest...i respect that
dk7th
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8/29/2015  6:47 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
EnySpree wrote:we've definitely gotten rid of guys that have agendas. All the guys we have now all expressed a desire to succeed on the court. They ate people that are family oriented and hard workers.

I'm very excited.

Phil even set the salaries up in such a way that we can move guys very easily.

When Melo continued to play to make sure he played in the All Star game for his branding, doing so because he knew he had that long term Knicks deal he signed to fall back on, plus his No Trade Clause, did that fit

A) The Knicks "agenda" for winning and it's long term future?

or

B) Melo's own personal agenda?


Also, Melo has a No Trade Clause. Phil Jackson has tried to trade Calderon from the time he traded for him, no one wants him. No one. Of the major free agent signings, Derrick Williams and Aaron Affalo have team options for next year. If Affalo outplays his contract, the Knicks lose a cost controlled wing. Or if he gets hurt, he cashes in and rehabs on the Knicks time and dime. I don't care how much the cap goes up in the future, no team is going to trade for Derrick Williams and his ability to inflict a 5 million cap hit on their team next season unless he's part of a bigger trade scenario needing a salary match.

Giving Affalo a player option is one thing ( given the valuation of wings in the modern NBA marketplace)

Giving one to Derrick Williams really makes no sense at all.

Robin Lopez and O'Quinn can be useful to another team. But moving them guts the Knicks ( who are already thin on the perimeter) and starts them at Square 1 at the pivot position next year, without said draft pick to bank on.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion and on and on and on and politically correct blurb and so forth, but here's what I see.

IF General Grant and/or Zinger break out and fans are cheering MVP for them and they are getting all the press love and companies start to get interested in them and they do the entire "Mark Sanchez Tour Of New York" thing as young players on a team in a giant media market, do you think Melo at all will be pleased? Or will he do as he always has - sulk, coach kill, freeze out other players and use his media cronies to lay down passive aggressive attacks.

Entering his 13th season, Melo has consistently, over the course of his career and over 30K minutes played, simply not cared about defense. When he doesn't care/doesn't try/worries about his branding and another NBA player torches him like a walking turnstile on defense, and then Fisher doesn't bench him, that will continue to do what it always does - sap morale from the team.

Do I hope Zinger and Grant pan out? Yes. Do I hope that Hernangomez guy develops and pans out in the future? Yes.

Do I hope Affalo and Lopez pan out to their expected baselines? Yes

As a pure shot in the dark, do I hope Derrick Williams finds some kind of useful rotation niche and helps this team? Yes ( but it probably won't happen)

But what I won't do is hope for things that time and pressure have established otherwise.

This was a 17 win team last year, with real systematic and administrative problems all along the organization. ( bad owner, first year coach, controversial offense, geriatric rookie team president, etc) Can it be better? Sure, but there was nowhere to go but up from last year.

You can make lemonade out of lemons, you can't however make a five course gourmet meal out of them overnight.

It's not "optimism" if it denies any type of "pragmatism" Then again, some of you just don't care. But then again, we all have a right to an opinion.

what does this mean? other than agreeing with most of your points and observations, i wonder what you mean here?

what are your overall hopes and expectations for the team? i have no idea but have a range of 29 to 42 wins which is admittedly ridiculously large a range.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
holfresh
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8/29/2015  8:22 PM
Means be real about the goals you think the team will attain..Any chance a Melocentric discussion doesn't ensue?
knicks don't have one trouble maker

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