[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Article: It is time we respect Carmelo Anthony
Author Thread
dk7th
Posts: 30006
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/14/2012
Member: #4228
USA
8/28/2015  4:01 PM
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
ESOMKnicks wrote:Question for some of the more experienced Knicks fans: was Bernard King subjected to the same type of criticism as Melo back in his Knicks playing days?

As for Melo accepting a lesser role on the offense, who is it that the Knicks have on their roster now that is bursting with offensive prowess that Melo is holding back?

It's wasn't the same..It was a different era..The big money Melo makes is an issue...24/7 news cycle..The internet..Anyone is writing a column these days...And I mean the dude down the block or in a dorm room or his mother's basement...The hip hop era...Allen Iverson..Corn rolls and tattoos...There hate is real out there but there are some that has legit basketball questions..Just that today they mask their issues and says it's about basketball and the game...It's deeper...Guys like Melo don't carry themselves in a manner that apologies for their wealth or status..It rubs some the wrong way...

you started off with two truths and then went into justifying melo's behavior. the dude has been an in love with himself greedy infantile douche.

You are justifying my point by mentioning "Melo's behavior"...

okay.. so u characterize his behavior a certain way and say it is perfectly good and acceptable behavior. meanwhile i characterize his behavior a certain way, differently from u, and say it is not perfectly good and acceptable.

u seem to be headed down a particular primrose path with your post..

No what I'm saying is that I don't care about Melo's behavior..I could care less what he is doing off the court...Seem like his cash moves bother you, what happens in TMZ and social media..I care when the refs toss up the basketball to when they blow the final whistle...

and when his behavior and business decisions affect the quality of his teams/teammates and the morale of the teams/teammates, what then?

By business decisions, you mean the instances you feel he should act against his own self interest?

you're way too black and white as usual. there's a reason why contracts are negotiated. if you end up with a boatload of cash but a paucity of talent then that's going to be a problem. or, if you are afraid if missing that boat on a big payday and force a trade that pays you well but costs the team you are going to a bunch of human assets in exchange for your services then that too is going to be a problem.

that's why being a savvy negotiator who is finding a balance between money and work atmosphere is so important. melo lacks the savvy because he only sees dollar signs. so he is actually working against his own self interests as an nba player. the money he makes comes ata significant price-- can you understand that statement?

what i have resented about the knicks is that there was an opportunity to build something in 2010. we had ALL the leverage to keep a patient rebuild going, and then completely sabotaged that process. hre we are 4-5 years later and essentially nothing has changed... although i believe we will see signs of that progress that we could have witnessed in 2011-2012 had the melo deal not occurred as it did.

melo as a free agent in 2011-2012 would have been a much better scenario. but yeah he acted in his own perceived self-interest even though it was self-destructive.

You fail to illustrate the bad management we had in the process..U fail to see the bad management in place right now..Donnie and MDA signed Amare..The team was doomed from that single act..Melo or no Melo...Amnestying Billups was a disaster after picking up his option a few months earlier..Bringing in Chandler, another disaster..MDA was a disaster...But you continue to moan about Melo's contract and trade..Gallo turned out to be nothing...Will is just an ok player..Moz the same..They didn't help Denver do anything...

Donnie wanted DWill over Melo..We would have been so hosed with Amare, DWill and MDA...We just paid the wrong Lopez 13/14 mil per...DWill 5 mil per and Affalo 8 mil ..We resigned Admunson and Thomas and u are worried about Melo at 22/23 per...If I were Melo, I would be pissed I gave up money for this...

it's 24 million per year.

but lets do this: what would you have thought of melo if he had decided to take a real paycut, and play for 18 million per instead? what would you think of melo then?

your hypocrisy is now firmly settled in my crosshairs..

Who is going to give up 40 mil of earnings in the prime of the earning career??..On probably the last big contract of their career..Come on..You have a prob with Melo's money but not the wrong Lopez's money??..Gallo is making 17 mil per...

lets say melo did.... what would you think of melo then?

can't you answer this question??


Strange question..I don't think about Melo's money..I wouldn't care or think anything of him...If he wants to do Phil a solid, he wants to do Phil a solid..

compartmentalization is the sign of mental illness. you need to have your head examined.

My point of view is that Melo is being paid around what a player of his ilk is paid...2 mil here or there isn't an issue...If Melo asked for and received 30 mil then I have issues...Dude brings it to the court, to the seats, and to the tube...It's a business first..Pay the man...Because, Dolan is getting paid, Phil is getting paid and Fisher is getting paid..

The wrong Lopez isn't brining it...13 mil per is well overpaid given his production...I wouldn't pay him over 7/8 mil but that's just me...

it's okay to be a business first but not to the exclusion of everything else, including winning. that starts with the owner not meddling, allowing the people he hires to do the job they are hired to do. that has not happened since dolan took over the franchise. dolan is not truly interested in the knicks winning titles... bt he is interested in getting stars to pt azzes in seats, regardless of winning. fortunately for him, there are plenty of corporate fvckheads and riffraff dipsh!ts who lap up whatever glop dolan puts out there. melo shares dolan's values... which i find pathetic.

melo is the sole remaining player from the "dolan as meddling nincompoop" era. so yeah sure he got his money, reflecting the meddling owners values-- but you can't have your cake and eat it too at this point if you're melo. phil jackson was hired to make the knicks respectable and competitive, he asked for something from melo... and he didn't get anything close to what he asked of melo. melo would have been welcomed with open arms to chicago but no he decided to make a business decision instead, forgoing a genuine chance at achieving something significant for just the second time in his career.

fisher and jackson's money do not count against the cap so it is classic misdirection and hypocrisy to bring them up for comparison. lopez is overpaid, but melo is vastly overpaid, and now that he is breaking down he has only weakened his own chance to play in significant games in may.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
AUTOADVERT
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

8/28/2015  5:09 PM
I really don't get the misdirect blame thing u do..Donnie and MDA brought Amare here but u say Dolan..Dolan's Melo meddling saved us from DWill..Next couple of years, we might need him again...
dk7th
Posts: 30006
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/14/2012
Member: #4228
USA
8/28/2015  5:21 PM
holfresh wrote:I really don't get the misdirect blame thing u do..Donnie and MDA brought Amare here but u say Dolan..Dolan's Melo meddling saved us from DWill..Next couple of years, we might need him again...

dolan pays fisher and jackson from a separate checking account, one that does not have anything to do with the players' salaries. hence your hypocrisy in saying "x and y got paid therefore z should also get paid."

yes dolan was ultimately responsible for all the years up until jackson. then he finally admitted he did not know what he was doing. hence everything leading up to that admission has his paw prints and values all over it. isiaiah thomas promising the playoffs, marbury, crawford, zbo, curry, anucha and the whole mess... then walsh is virtually foisted on dolan and do you think dolan appreciates that? no he does not. he is behind the lbj sweepstakes, he is behind the stoudemire acquisition because of his "values," and he is clearly behind the melo trade-rape in 2011. proof is in how eager walsh was to hightail it out of msg.

you want the knicks to win you have to keep dolan far far away from the knicks.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
ESOMKnicks
Posts: 21334
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/14/2015
Member: #6064

8/28/2015  5:49 PM
dk7th wrote:
ESOMKnicks wrote:Question for some of the more experienced Knicks fans: was Bernard King subjected to the same type of criticism as Melo back in his Knicks playing days?

As for Melo accepting a lesser role on the offense, who is it that the Knicks have on their roster now that is bursting with offensive prowess that Melo is holding back?

different era, different game. hand checking, hard fouls, no calls at the rim, traveling and palming called more frequently. also no social media. king developed his footwork under pete newell, as had jabbar and walton before him and olajuwon and shaq after. he became a great scorer, far better than melo. but he blew out his knee and was never as effective i guess. i saw an old tape of the knicks playing the bulls in jordan's rookie year. jordan was playing at a different speed even then-- i felt a twinge of sadness for bernard king when i watched that tape. it was like the game was already passing him by.

your second question is not valid-- he is being put in a position to buy into system basketball that requires him to pass the ball more, move without the ball more, and to ramp up his defense, and take fewer shots.


Which system is that? Isn't it the same one where Jordan, Shaq or Kobe averaged 30ppg?

holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

8/28/2015  5:52 PM
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:I really don't get the misdirect blame thing u do..Donnie and MDA brought Amare here but u say Dolan..Dolan's Melo meddling saved us from DWill..Next couple of years, we might need him again...

dolan pays fisher and jackson from a separate checking account, one that does not have anything to do with the players' salaries. hence your hypocrisy in saying "x and y got paid therefore z should also get paid."

yes dolan was ultimately responsible for all the years up until jackson. then he finally admitted he did not know what he was doing. hence everything leading up to that admission has his paw prints and values all over it. isiaiah thomas promising the playoffs, marbury, crawford, zbo, curry, anucha and the whole mess... then walsh is virtually foisted on dolan and do you think dolan appreciates that? no he does not. he is behind the lbj sweepstakes, he is behind the stoudemire acquisition because of his "values," and he is clearly behind the melo trade-rape in 2011. proof is in how eager walsh was to hightail it out of msg.

you want the knicks to win you have to keep dolan far far away from the knicks.

So u still won't admit Amare was signed by Donnie and MDA..MDA resigned because Dolan didn't trade Melo for DWill..You won't admit that Phil resigned Melo..How do you decide which facts to acknowledge and not acknowledge and why would anyone take you seriously if the basics fact aren't even acknowledged?

dk7th
Posts: 30006
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/14/2012
Member: #4228
USA
8/28/2015  8:23 PM
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:I really don't get the misdirect blame thing u do..Donnie and MDA brought Amare here but u say Dolan..Dolan's Melo meddling saved us from DWill..Next couple of years, we might need him again...

dolan pays fisher and jackson from a separate checking account, one that does not have anything to do with the players' salaries. hence your hypocrisy in saying "x and y got paid therefore z should also get paid."

yes dolan was ultimately responsible for all the years up until jackson. then he finally admitted he did not know what he was doing. hence everything leading up to that admission has his paw prints and values all over it. isiaiah thomas promising the playoffs, marbury, crawford, zbo, curry, anucha and the whole mess... then walsh is virtually foisted on dolan and do you think dolan appreciates that? no he does not. he is behind the lbj sweepstakes, he is behind the stoudemire acquisition because of his "values," and he is clearly behind the melo trade-rape in 2011. proof is in how eager walsh was to hightail it out of msg.

you want the knicks to win you have to keep dolan far far away from the knicks.

So u still won't admit Amare was signed by Donnie and MDA..MDA resigned because Dolan didn't trade Melo for DWill..You won't admit that Phil resigned Melo..How do you decide which facts to acknowledge and not acknowledge and why would anyone take you seriously if the basics fact aren't even acknowledged?

come on man. the directive of win now when isaiah was here was from whom? obviously dolan! so isaiah, that miserable little shyt, lied to dolan saying he could build a winner on the fly and failed miserably. what a joke. and embarrassing.

the directive of pursuing lbj was given by dolan. no problem there. every imbecile can recognize a true franchise talent. but.......... when that failed dolan gave a directive-- a DIRECTIVE-- to walsh to pursue a marquee name to put.azzes.in.seats. that was not walsh. why would walsh take on a guy with uninsurable knees and depends on nash for his career? is amare a basketball decision or a business decision?

a gm's job is to try to put together a winner, but if the owner's desire is to put azzes in seats then guess what happens: the knicks.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

8/28/2015  9:37 PM
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:I really don't get the misdirect blame thing u do..Donnie and MDA brought Amare here but u say Dolan..Dolan's Melo meddling saved us from DWill..Next couple of years, we might need him again...

dolan pays fisher and jackson from a separate checking account, one that does not have anything to do with the players' salaries. hence your hypocrisy in saying "x and y got paid therefore z should also get paid."

yes dolan was ultimately responsible for all the years up until jackson. then he finally admitted he did not know what he was doing. hence everything leading up to that admission has his paw prints and values all over it. isiaiah thomas promising the playoffs, marbury, crawford, zbo, curry, anucha and the whole mess... then walsh is virtually foisted on dolan and do you think dolan appreciates that? no he does not. he is behind the lbj sweepstakes, he is behind the stoudemire acquisition because of his "values," and he is clearly behind the melo trade-rape in 2011. proof is in how eager walsh was to hightail it out of msg.

you want the knicks to win you have to keep dolan far far away from the knicks.

So u still won't admit Amare was signed by Donnie and MDA..MDA resigned because Dolan didn't trade Melo for DWill..You won't admit that Phil resigned Melo..How do you decide which facts to acknowledge and not acknowledge and why would anyone take you seriously if the basics fact aren't even acknowledged?

come on man. the directive of win now when isaiah was here was from whom? obviously dolan! so isaiah, that miserable little shyt, lied to dolan saying he could build a winner on the fly and failed miserably. what a joke. and embarrassing.

the directive of pursuing lbj was given by dolan. no problem there. every imbecile can recognize a true franchise talent. but.......... when that failed dolan gave a directive-- a DIRECTIVE-- to walsh to pursue a marquee name to put.azzes.in.seats. that was not walsh. why would walsh take on a guy with uninsurable knees and depends on nash for his career? is amare a basketball decision or a business decision?

a gm's job is to try to put together a winner, but if the owner's desire is to put azzes in seats then guess what happens: the knicks.


So based on your theory, the only GM responsible for their actions is Isiah..Got it..
dk7th
Posts: 30006
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/14/2012
Member: #4228
USA
8/29/2015  12:24 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/29/2015  11:49 AM
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:I really don't get the misdirect blame thing u do..Donnie and MDA brought Amare here but u say Dolan..Dolan's Melo meddling saved us from DWill..Next couple of years, we might need him again...

dolan pays fisher and jackson from a separate checking account, one that does not have anything to do with the players' salaries. hence your hypocrisy in saying "x and y got paid therefore z should also get paid."

yes dolan was ultimately responsible for all the years up until jackson. then he finally admitted he did not know what he was doing. hence everything leading up to that admission has his paw prints and values all over it. isiaiah thomas promising the playoffs, marbury, crawford, zbo, curry, anucha and the whole mess... then walsh is virtually foisted on dolan and do you think dolan appreciates that? no he does not. he is behind the lbj sweepstakes, he is behind the stoudemire acquisition because of his "values," and he is clearly behind the melo trade-rape in 2011. proof is in how eager walsh was to hightail it out of msg.

you want the knicks to win you have to keep dolan far far away from the knicks.

So u still won't admit Amare was signed by Donnie and MDA..MDA resigned because Dolan didn't trade Melo for DWill..You won't admit that Phil resigned Melo..How do you decide which facts to acknowledge and not acknowledge and why would anyone take you seriously if the basics fact aren't even acknowledged?

come on man. the directive of win now when isaiah was here was from whom? obviously dolan! so isaiah, that miserable little shyt, lied to dolan saying he could build a winner on the fly and failed miserably. what a joke. and embarrassing.

the directive of pursuing lbj was given by dolan. no problem there. every imbecile can recognize a true franchise talent. but.......... when that failed dolan gave a directive-- a DIRECTIVE-- to walsh to pursue a marquee name to put.azzes.in.seats. that was not walsh. why would walsh take on a guy with uninsurable knees and depends on nash for his career? is amare a basketball decision or a business decision?

a gm's job is to try to put together a winner, but if the owner's desire is to put azzes in seats then guess what happens: the knicks.


So based on your theory, the only GM responsible for their actions is Isiah..Got it..

not just isaiah you jerkoff. layden, who gave allan houston that contract, he was a real c0ksukker but would be inept anywhere... but obviously this was a dolan-sourced directive. the proof is that houston is still with the team throughout it all. horrible signing, so horrible i stopped watching the knicks i was sickened by the signing. then i only returned to watching the team for the sheer morbid fascination of seeing the stephon dinglebury fiasco unfold. hated his game... unwatchable. by the end these collective lowlifes, an unholy troika of dolan/thomas/dinglebury, the commissioner stern had to crack down given the fiasco the knicks had become under dolan.

so walsh comes in, there's two years of desolation, then he tries to build something and is summarily shoved aside for TRYING TO DO HIS JOB.

dolan is really the lowest of the low sort of thing. every time i think of him my upper lip curls into a sneer with revulsion.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

8/30/2015  11:47 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/30/2015  12:31 PM
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:I really don't get the misdirect blame thing u do..Donnie and MDA brought Amare here but u say Dolan..Dolan's Melo meddling saved us from DWill..Next couple of years, we might need him again...

dolan pays fisher and jackson from a separate checking account, one that does not have anything to do with the players' salaries. hence your hypocrisy in saying "x and y got paid therefore z should also get paid."

yes dolan was ultimately responsible for all the years up until jackson. then he finally admitted he did not know what he was doing. hence everything leading up to that admission has his paw prints and values all over it. isiaiah thomas promising the playoffs, marbury, crawford, zbo, curry, anucha and the whole mess... then walsh is virtually foisted on dolan and do you think dolan appreciates that? no he does not. he is behind the lbj sweepstakes, he is behind the stoudemire acquisition because of his "values," and he is clearly behind the melo trade-rape in 2011. proof is in how eager walsh was to hightail it out of msg.

you want the knicks to win you have to keep dolan far far away from the knicks.

So u still won't admit Amare was signed by Donnie and MDA..MDA resigned because Dolan didn't trade Melo for DWill..You won't admit that Phil resigned Melo..How do you decide which facts to acknowledge and not acknowledge and why would anyone take you seriously if the basics fact aren't even acknowledged?

come on man. the directive of win now when isaiah was here was from whom? obviously dolan! so isaiah, that miserable little shyt, lied to dolan saying he could build a winner on the fly and failed miserably. what a joke. and embarrassing.

the directive of pursuing lbj was given by dolan. no problem there. every imbecile can recognize a true franchise talent. but.......... when that failed dolan gave a directive-- a DIRECTIVE-- to walsh to pursue a marquee name to put.azzes.in.seats. that was not walsh. why would walsh take on a guy with uninsurable knees and depends on nash for his career? is amare a basketball decision or a business decision?

a gm's job is to try to put together a winner, but if the owner's desire is to put azzes in seats then guess what happens: the knicks.


So based on your theory, the only GM responsible for their actions is Isiah..Got it..

not just isaiah you jerkoff. layden, who gave allan houston that contract, he was a real c0ksukker but would be inept anywhere... but obviously this was a dolan-sourced directive. the proof is that houston is still with the team throughout it all. horrible signing, so horrible i stopped watching the knicks i was sickened by the signing. then i only returned to watching the team for the sheer morbid fascination of seeing the stephon dinglebury fiasco unfold. hated his game... unwatchable. by the end these collective lowlifes, an unholy troika of dolan/thomas/dinglebury, the commissioner stern had to crack down given the fiasco the knicks had become under dolan.

so walsh comes in, there's two years of desolation, then he tries to build something and is summarily shoved aside for TRYING TO DO HIS JOB.

dolan is really the lowest of the low sort of thing. every time i think of him my upper lip curls into a sneer with revulsion.

Funny you should mention Layden..This sort of reminding me of the Layden era a little..New GM comes in and cleans house(Ewing trade)..Only brings in people he knows and familiar with..GM overmatched by his peers in trades..Doesn't have a good relationship with peers for trade purposes..Roster of character guys first..Maxes out the cap with role players..We are desperately hoping for a .500 record...And like the Layden era, a complete revamp after a playoff loss in game 6 to Indiana with an old roster..

dk7th
Posts: 30006
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/14/2012
Member: #4228
USA
8/30/2015  12:37 PM
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:I really don't get the misdirect blame thing u do..Donnie and MDA brought Amare here but u say Dolan..Dolan's Melo meddling saved us from DWill..Next couple of years, we might need him again...

dolan pays fisher and jackson from a separate checking account, one that does not have anything to do with the players' salaries. hence your hypocrisy in saying "x and y got paid therefore z should also get paid."

yes dolan was ultimately responsible for all the years up until jackson. then he finally admitted he did not know what he was doing. hence everything leading up to that admission has his paw prints and values all over it. isiaiah thomas promising the playoffs, marbury, crawford, zbo, curry, anucha and the whole mess... then walsh is virtually foisted on dolan and do you think dolan appreciates that? no he does not. he is behind the lbj sweepstakes, he is behind the stoudemire acquisition because of his "values," and he is clearly behind the melo trade-rape in 2011. proof is in how eager walsh was to hightail it out of msg.

you want the knicks to win you have to keep dolan far far away from the knicks.

So u still won't admit Amare was signed by Donnie and MDA..MDA resigned because Dolan didn't trade Melo for DWill..You won't admit that Phil resigned Melo..How do you decide which facts to acknowledge and not acknowledge and why would anyone take you seriously if the basics fact aren't even acknowledged?

come on man. the directive of win now when isaiah was here was from whom? obviously dolan! so isaiah, that miserable little shyt, lied to dolan saying he could build a winner on the fly and failed miserably. what a joke. and embarrassing.

the directive of pursuing lbj was given by dolan. no problem there. every imbecile can recognize a true franchise talent. but.......... when that failed dolan gave a directive-- a DIRECTIVE-- to walsh to pursue a marquee name to put.azzes.in.seats. that was not walsh. why would walsh take on a guy with uninsurable knees and depends on nash for his career? is amare a basketball decision or a business decision?

a gm's job is to try to put together a winner, but if the owner's desire is to put azzes in seats then guess what happens: the knicks.


So based on your theory, the only GM responsible for their actions is Isiah..Got it..

not just isaiah you jerkoff. layden, who gave allan houston that contract, he was a real c0ksukker but would be inept anywhere... but obviously this was a dolan-sourced directive. the proof is that houston is still with the team throughout it all. horrible signing, so horrible i stopped watching the knicks i was sickened by the signing. then i only returned to watching the team for the sheer morbid fascination of seeing the stephon dinglebury fiasco unfold. hated his game... unwatchable. by the end these collective lowlifes, an unholy troika of dolan/thomas/dinglebury, the commissioner stern had to crack down given the fiasco the knicks had become under dolan.

so walsh comes in, there's two years of desolation, then he tries to build something and is summarily shoved aside for TRYING TO DO HIS JOB.

dolan is really the lowest of the low sort of thing. every time i think of him my upper lip curls into a sneer with revulsion.

Funny you should mention Layden..This sort of reminding me of the Layden era a little..New GM comes in and cleans house(Ewing trade)..Only brings in people he knows and familiar with..GM overmatched by his peers in trades..Doesn't have a good relationship with peers for trade purposes..Roster of character guys first..Maxes out the cap with role players..We are desperately hoping for a .500 record...And like the Layden era, a complete revamp after a playoff loss in game 6 to Indiana with an old roster..

riiiigghhhht so this season is going to play out similarly to those seasons. i have no idea about their record until i see some preseason so right now i have a wide range of 29-42 wins.

you?

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

8/30/2015  12:45 PM
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:I really don't get the misdirect blame thing u do..Donnie and MDA brought Amare here but u say Dolan..Dolan's Melo meddling saved us from DWill..Next couple of years, we might need him again...

dolan pays fisher and jackson from a separate checking account, one that does not have anything to do with the players' salaries. hence your hypocrisy in saying "x and y got paid therefore z should also get paid."

yes dolan was ultimately responsible for all the years up until jackson. then he finally admitted he did not know what he was doing. hence everything leading up to that admission has his paw prints and values all over it. isiaiah thomas promising the playoffs, marbury, crawford, zbo, curry, anucha and the whole mess... then walsh is virtually foisted on dolan and do you think dolan appreciates that? no he does not. he is behind the lbj sweepstakes, he is behind the stoudemire acquisition because of his "values," and he is clearly behind the melo trade-rape in 2011. proof is in how eager walsh was to hightail it out of msg.

you want the knicks to win you have to keep dolan far far away from the knicks.

So u still won't admit Amare was signed by Donnie and MDA..MDA resigned because Dolan didn't trade Melo for DWill..You won't admit that Phil resigned Melo..How do you decide which facts to acknowledge and not acknowledge and why would anyone take you seriously if the basics fact aren't even acknowledged?

come on man. the directive of win now when isaiah was here was from whom? obviously dolan! so isaiah, that miserable little shyt, lied to dolan saying he could build a winner on the fly and failed miserably. what a joke. and embarrassing.

the directive of pursuing lbj was given by dolan. no problem there. every imbecile can recognize a true franchise talent. but.......... when that failed dolan gave a directive-- a DIRECTIVE-- to walsh to pursue a marquee name to put.azzes.in.seats. that was not walsh. why would walsh take on a guy with uninsurable knees and depends on nash for his career? is amare a basketball decision or a business decision?

a gm's job is to try to put together a winner, but if the owner's desire is to put azzes in seats then guess what happens: the knicks.


So based on your theory, the only GM responsible for their actions is Isiah..Got it..

not just isaiah you jerkoff. layden, who gave allan houston that contract, he was a real c0ksukker but would be inept anywhere... but obviously this was a dolan-sourced directive. the proof is that houston is still with the team throughout it all. horrible signing, so horrible i stopped watching the knicks i was sickened by the signing. then i only returned to watching the team for the sheer morbid fascination of seeing the stephon dinglebury fiasco unfold. hated his game... unwatchable. by the end these collective lowlifes, an unholy troika of dolan/thomas/dinglebury, the commissioner stern had to crack down given the fiasco the knicks had become under dolan.

so walsh comes in, there's two years of desolation, then he tries to build something and is summarily shoved aside for TRYING TO DO HIS JOB.

dolan is really the lowest of the low sort of thing. every time i think of him my upper lip curls into a sneer with revulsion.

Funny you should mention Layden..This sort of reminding me of the Layden era a little..New GM comes in and cleans house(Ewing trade)..Only brings in people he knows and familiar with..GM overmatched by his peers in trades..Doesn't have a good relationship with peers for trade purposes..Roster of character guys first..Maxes out the cap with role players..We are desperately hoping for a .500 record...And like the Layden era, a complete revamp after a playoff loss in game 6 to Indiana with an old roster..

riiiigghhhht so this season is going to play out similarly to those seasons. i have no idea about their record until i see some preseason so right now i have a wide range of 29-42 wins.

you?

Hard to say because you have no clue what the coach will give you..I think players believing in the coach and buying in is a big deal..Are the players looking to Phil or Fisher for guidance and to push them..I say Phil...That's a lose, lose...Optimistically I'll say 32 wins...But ESPN at 25 won't surprise me...

TeamBall
Posts: 24343
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/13/2012
Member: #4386

8/30/2015  12:49 PM
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:I really don't get the misdirect blame thing u do..Donnie and MDA brought Amare here but u say Dolan..Dolan's Melo meddling saved us from DWill..Next couple of years, we might need him again...

dolan pays fisher and jackson from a separate checking account, one that does not have anything to do with the players' salaries. hence your hypocrisy in saying "x and y got paid therefore z should also get paid."

yes dolan was ultimately responsible for all the years up until jackson. then he finally admitted he did not know what he was doing. hence everything leading up to that admission has his paw prints and values all over it. isiaiah thomas promising the playoffs, marbury, crawford, zbo, curry, anucha and the whole mess... then walsh is virtually foisted on dolan and do you think dolan appreciates that? no he does not. he is behind the lbj sweepstakes, he is behind the stoudemire acquisition because of his "values," and he is clearly behind the melo trade-rape in 2011. proof is in how eager walsh was to hightail it out of msg.

you want the knicks to win you have to keep dolan far far away from the knicks.

So u still won't admit Amare was signed by Donnie and MDA..MDA resigned because Dolan didn't trade Melo for DWill..You won't admit that Phil resigned Melo..How do you decide which facts to acknowledge and not acknowledge and why would anyone take you seriously if the basics fact aren't even acknowledged?

come on man. the directive of win now when isaiah was here was from whom? obviously dolan! so isaiah, that miserable little shyt, lied to dolan saying he could build a winner on the fly and failed miserably. what a joke. and embarrassing.

the directive of pursuing lbj was given by dolan. no problem there. every imbecile can recognize a true franchise talent. but.......... when that failed dolan gave a directive-- a DIRECTIVE-- to walsh to pursue a marquee name to put.azzes.in.seats. that was not walsh. why would walsh take on a guy with uninsurable knees and depends on nash for his career? is amare a basketball decision or a business decision?

a gm's job is to try to put together a winner, but if the owner's desire is to put azzes in seats then guess what happens: the knicks.


I hate to butt in here but I'm gonna have to call you out on the bold. You and I had a similar debate a while ago. At the time, you were adamant that Amare was a Walsh signing. In fact, you actually made it out to look a lot more positive than you are now.

so far as walsh's intents with stoudemire, it is not a fact that it was a mistake to acquire him but it is a fact that walsh had to start someplace that summer. why is that a fact? because we all suffered from two years of emptiness and walsh had to reward our patience. it was necessary.

because walsh wanted to rebuild and that 2010-11 season was the first season of rebuild, after two season's of flushing thomas's poopoo away. that is not pandering. walsh is smarter than the fanbase but understands that they waited patiently for lebron james. so something had to be done. had to = necessity.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=46863&page=5

Now, there's nothing wrong with you seemingly having changed your mind but is that the case or no?

Knicksfan: Hypocrite league that fines players after the game for flopping but in the game and with obvious flopping they call the fouls.
dk7th
Posts: 30006
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/14/2012
Member: #4228
USA
8/30/2015  1:22 PM
TeamBall wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:I really don't get the misdirect blame thing u do..Donnie and MDA brought Amare here but u say Dolan..Dolan's Melo meddling saved us from DWill..Next couple of years, we might need him again...

dolan pays fisher and jackson from a separate checking account, one that does not have anything to do with the players' salaries. hence your hypocrisy in saying "x and y got paid therefore z should also get paid."

yes dolan was ultimately responsible for all the years up until jackson. then he finally admitted he did not know what he was doing. hence everything leading up to that admission has his paw prints and values all over it. isiaiah thomas promising the playoffs, marbury, crawford, zbo, curry, anucha and the whole mess... then walsh is virtually foisted on dolan and do you think dolan appreciates that? no he does not. he is behind the lbj sweepstakes, he is behind the stoudemire acquisition because of his "values," and he is clearly behind the melo trade-rape in 2011. proof is in how eager walsh was to hightail it out of msg.

you want the knicks to win you have to keep dolan far far away from the knicks.

So u still won't admit Amare was signed by Donnie and MDA..MDA resigned because Dolan didn't trade Melo for DWill..You won't admit that Phil resigned Melo..How do you decide which facts to acknowledge and not acknowledge and why would anyone take you seriously if the basics fact aren't even acknowledged?

come on man. the directive of win now when isaiah was here was from whom? obviously dolan! so isaiah, that miserable little shyt, lied to dolan saying he could build a winner on the fly and failed miserably. what a joke. and embarrassing.

the directive of pursuing lbj was given by dolan. no problem there. every imbecile can recognize a true franchise talent. but.......... when that failed dolan gave a directive-- a DIRECTIVE-- to walsh to pursue a marquee name to put.azzes.in.seats. that was not walsh. why would walsh take on a guy with uninsurable knees and depends on nash for his career? is amare a basketball decision or a business decision?

a gm's job is to try to put together a winner, but if the owner's desire is to put azzes in seats then guess what happens: the knicks.


I hate to butt in here but I'm gonna have to call you out on the bold. You and I had a similar debate a while ago. At the time, you were adamant that Amare was a Walsh signing. In fact, you actually made it out to look a lot more positive than you are now.

so far as walsh's intents with stoudemire, it is not a fact that it was a mistake to acquire him but it is a fact that walsh had to start someplace that summer. why is that a fact? because we all suffered from two years of emptiness and walsh had to reward our patience. it was necessary.

because walsh wanted to rebuild and that 2010-11 season was the first season of rebuild, after two season's of flushing thomas's poopoo away. that is not pandering. walsh is smarter than the fanbase but understands that they waited patiently for lebron james. so something had to be done. had to = necessity.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=46863&page=5

Now, there's nothing wrong with you seemingly having changed your mind but is that the case or no?

yes i definitely said those things and thanks for providing the link so i could look at my own words. here's the thing... yes i have shifted my point of view on walsh to one of his working from the directive of dolan vis a vis putting azzes in seats. i think he agreed to this scenario to appease dolan but did not expect the level of collusion that lebron, wade, and bosh stooped to. it caught everyone off guard. that said, i believe that if walsh had full autonomy he would have passed on stoudemire-- the move was a sign of desperation that i do not see as sourced in walsh's M.O. the next desperate move was the melo trade-- the desperation of that trade was clearly from dolan. anything desperate reeks of dolan.

i believe that until dolan admitted he did not know what he was doing you can assume it all comes from him, that the moves that the gms have made were never autonomous and refelcted the values of dolan, such as they are....

that's why i am optimistic about jackson's work here, if for no other reason than he has been promised full autonomy.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

8/30/2015  1:26 PM
dk7th wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:I really don't get the misdirect blame thing u do..Donnie and MDA brought Amare here but u say Dolan..Dolan's Melo meddling saved us from DWill..Next couple of years, we might need him again...

dolan pays fisher and jackson from a separate checking account, one that does not have anything to do with the players' salaries. hence your hypocrisy in saying "x and y got paid therefore z should also get paid."

yes dolan was ultimately responsible for all the years up until jackson. then he finally admitted he did not know what he was doing. hence everything leading up to that admission has his paw prints and values all over it. isiaiah thomas promising the playoffs, marbury, crawford, zbo, curry, anucha and the whole mess... then walsh is virtually foisted on dolan and do you think dolan appreciates that? no he does not. he is behind the lbj sweepstakes, he is behind the stoudemire acquisition because of his "values," and he is clearly behind the melo trade-rape in 2011. proof is in how eager walsh was to hightail it out of msg.

you want the knicks to win you have to keep dolan far far away from the knicks.

So u still won't admit Amare was signed by Donnie and MDA..MDA resigned because Dolan didn't trade Melo for DWill..You won't admit that Phil resigned Melo..How do you decide which facts to acknowledge and not acknowledge and why would anyone take you seriously if the basics fact aren't even acknowledged?

come on man. the directive of win now when isaiah was here was from whom? obviously dolan! so isaiah, that miserable little shyt, lied to dolan saying he could build a winner on the fly and failed miserably. what a joke. and embarrassing.

the directive of pursuing lbj was given by dolan. no problem there. every imbecile can recognize a true franchise talent. but.......... when that failed dolan gave a directive-- a DIRECTIVE-- to walsh to pursue a marquee name to put.azzes.in.seats. that was not walsh. why would walsh take on a guy with uninsurable knees and depends on nash for his career? is amare a basketball decision or a business decision?

a gm's job is to try to put together a winner, but if the owner's desire is to put azzes in seats then guess what happens: the knicks.


I hate to butt in here but I'm gonna have to call you out on the bold. You and I had a similar debate a while ago. At the time, you were adamant that Amare was a Walsh signing. In fact, you actually made it out to look a lot more positive than you are now.

so far as walsh's intents with stoudemire, it is not a fact that it was a mistake to acquire him but it is a fact that walsh had to start someplace that summer. why is that a fact? because we all suffered from two years of emptiness and walsh had to reward our patience. it was necessary.

because walsh wanted to rebuild and that 2010-11 season was the first season of rebuild, after two season's of flushing thomas's poopoo away. that is not pandering. walsh is smarter than the fanbase but understands that they waited patiently for lebron james. so something had to be done. had to = necessity.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=46863&page=5

Now, there's nothing wrong with you seemingly having changed your mind but is that the case or no?

yes i definitely said those things and thanks for providing the link so i could look at my own words. here's the thing... yes i have shifted my point of view on walsh to one of his working from the directive of dolan vis a vis putting azzes in seats. i think he agreed to this scenario to appease dolan but did not expect the level of collusion that lebron, wade, and bosh stooped to. it caught everyone off guard. that said, i believe that if walsh had full autonomy he would have passed on stoudemire-- the move was a sign of desperation that i do not see as sourced in walsh's M.O. the next desperate move was the melo trade-- the desperation of that trade was clearly from dolan. anything desperate reeks of dolan.

i believe that until dolan admitted he did not know what he was doing you can assume it all comes from him, that the moves that the gms have made were never autonomous and refelcted the values of dolan, such as they are....

that's why i am optimistic about jackson's work here, if for no other reason than he has been promised full autonomy.

Does Phil have full autonomy??

martin
Posts: 67903
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
8/30/2015  1:30 PM
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:I really don't get the misdirect blame thing u do..Donnie and MDA brought Amare here but u say Dolan..Dolan's Melo meddling saved us from DWill..Next couple of years, we might need him again...

dolan pays fisher and jackson from a separate checking account, one that does not have anything to do with the players' salaries. hence your hypocrisy in saying "x and y got paid therefore z should also get paid."

yes dolan was ultimately responsible for all the years up until jackson. then he finally admitted he did not know what he was doing. hence everything leading up to that admission has his paw prints and values all over it. isiaiah thomas promising the playoffs, marbury, crawford, zbo, curry, anucha and the whole mess... then walsh is virtually foisted on dolan and do you think dolan appreciates that? no he does not. he is behind the lbj sweepstakes, he is behind the stoudemire acquisition because of his "values," and he is clearly behind the melo trade-rape in 2011. proof is in how eager walsh was to hightail it out of msg.

you want the knicks to win you have to keep dolan far far away from the knicks.

So u still won't admit Amare was signed by Donnie and MDA..MDA resigned because Dolan didn't trade Melo for DWill..You won't admit that Phil resigned Melo..How do you decide which facts to acknowledge and not acknowledge and why would anyone take you seriously if the basics fact aren't even acknowledged?

come on man. the directive of win now when isaiah was here was from whom? obviously dolan! so isaiah, that miserable little shyt, lied to dolan saying he could build a winner on the fly and failed miserably. what a joke. and embarrassing.

the directive of pursuing lbj was given by dolan. no problem there. every imbecile can recognize a true franchise talent. but.......... when that failed dolan gave a directive-- a DIRECTIVE-- to walsh to pursue a marquee name to put.azzes.in.seats. that was not walsh. why would walsh take on a guy with uninsurable knees and depends on nash for his career? is amare a basketball decision or a business decision?

a gm's job is to try to put together a winner, but if the owner's desire is to put azzes in seats then guess what happens: the knicks.


I hate to butt in here but I'm gonna have to call you out on the bold. You and I had a similar debate a while ago. At the time, you were adamant that Amare was a Walsh signing. In fact, you actually made it out to look a lot more positive than you are now.

so far as walsh's intents with stoudemire, it is not a fact that it was a mistake to acquire him but it is a fact that walsh had to start someplace that summer. why is that a fact? because we all suffered from two years of emptiness and walsh had to reward our patience. it was necessary.

because walsh wanted to rebuild and that 2010-11 season was the first season of rebuild, after two season's of flushing thomas's poopoo away. that is not pandering. walsh is smarter than the fanbase but understands that they waited patiently for lebron james. so something had to be done. had to = necessity.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=46863&page=5

Now, there's nothing wrong with you seemingly having changed your mind but is that the case or no?

yes i definitely said those things and thanks for providing the link so i could look at my own words. here's the thing... yes i have shifted my point of view on walsh to one of his working from the directive of dolan vis a vis putting azzes in seats. i think he agreed to this scenario to appease dolan but did not expect the level of collusion that lebron, wade, and bosh stooped to. it caught everyone off guard. that said, i believe that if walsh had full autonomy he would have passed on stoudemire-- the move was a sign of desperation that i do not see as sourced in walsh's M.O. the next desperate move was the melo trade-- the desperation of that trade was clearly from dolan. anything desperate reeks of dolan.

i believe that until dolan admitted he did not know what he was doing you can assume it all comes from him, that the moves that the gms have made were never autonomous and refelcted the values of dolan, such as they are....

that's why i am optimistic about jackson's work here, if for no other reason than he has been promised full autonomy.

Does Phil have full autonomy??

He sure seems to have enough, don't you think?

For me, the Phil Files speaks volumes about things changing. One never knows but drafting long term, high potential KP, shedding all of the other players last year, bringing in the types of role players, etc. seems like a new regime under enough full autonomy.

What autonomy don't you think he has had that would have made a difference?

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
mreinman
Posts: 37827
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/14/2010
Member: #3189

8/30/2015  1:34 PM
martin wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:I really don't get the misdirect blame thing u do..Donnie and MDA brought Amare here but u say Dolan..Dolan's Melo meddling saved us from DWill..Next couple of years, we might need him again...

dolan pays fisher and jackson from a separate checking account, one that does not have anything to do with the players' salaries. hence your hypocrisy in saying "x and y got paid therefore z should also get paid."

yes dolan was ultimately responsible for all the years up until jackson. then he finally admitted he did not know what he was doing. hence everything leading up to that admission has his paw prints and values all over it. isiaiah thomas promising the playoffs, marbury, crawford, zbo, curry, anucha and the whole mess... then walsh is virtually foisted on dolan and do you think dolan appreciates that? no he does not. he is behind the lbj sweepstakes, he is behind the stoudemire acquisition because of his "values," and he is clearly behind the melo trade-rape in 2011. proof is in how eager walsh was to hightail it out of msg.

you want the knicks to win you have to keep dolan far far away from the knicks.

So u still won't admit Amare was signed by Donnie and MDA..MDA resigned because Dolan didn't trade Melo for DWill..You won't admit that Phil resigned Melo..How do you decide which facts to acknowledge and not acknowledge and why would anyone take you seriously if the basics fact aren't even acknowledged?

come on man. the directive of win now when isaiah was here was from whom? obviously dolan! so isaiah, that miserable little shyt, lied to dolan saying he could build a winner on the fly and failed miserably. what a joke. and embarrassing.

the directive of pursuing lbj was given by dolan. no problem there. every imbecile can recognize a true franchise talent. but.......... when that failed dolan gave a directive-- a DIRECTIVE-- to walsh to pursue a marquee name to put.azzes.in.seats. that was not walsh. why would walsh take on a guy with uninsurable knees and depends on nash for his career? is amare a basketball decision or a business decision?

a gm's job is to try to put together a winner, but if the owner's desire is to put azzes in seats then guess what happens: the knicks.


I hate to butt in here but I'm gonna have to call you out on the bold. You and I had a similar debate a while ago. At the time, you were adamant that Amare was a Walsh signing. In fact, you actually made it out to look a lot more positive than you are now.

so far as walsh's intents with stoudemire, it is not a fact that it was a mistake to acquire him but it is a fact that walsh had to start someplace that summer. why is that a fact? because we all suffered from two years of emptiness and walsh had to reward our patience. it was necessary.

because walsh wanted to rebuild and that 2010-11 season was the first season of rebuild, after two season's of flushing thomas's poopoo away. that is not pandering. walsh is smarter than the fanbase but understands that they waited patiently for lebron james. so something had to be done. had to = necessity.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=46863&page=5

Now, there's nothing wrong with you seemingly having changed your mind but is that the case or no?

yes i definitely said those things and thanks for providing the link so i could look at my own words. here's the thing... yes i have shifted my point of view on walsh to one of his working from the directive of dolan vis a vis putting azzes in seats. i think he agreed to this scenario to appease dolan but did not expect the level of collusion that lebron, wade, and bosh stooped to. it caught everyone off guard. that said, i believe that if walsh had full autonomy he would have passed on stoudemire-- the move was a sign of desperation that i do not see as sourced in walsh's M.O. the next desperate move was the melo trade-- the desperation of that trade was clearly from dolan. anything desperate reeks of dolan.

i believe that until dolan admitted he did not know what he was doing you can assume it all comes from him, that the moves that the gms have made were never autonomous and refelcted the values of dolan, such as they are....

that's why i am optimistic about jackson's work here, if for no other reason than he has been promised full autonomy.

Does Phil have full autonomy??

He sure seems to have enough, don't you think?

For me, the Phil Files speaks volumes about things changing. One never knows but drafting long term, high potential KP, shedding all of the other players last year, bringing in the types of role players, etc. seems like a new regime under enough full autonomy.

What autonomy don't you think he has had that would have made a difference?

choosing his own medical staff and keeping Isiah out of the loop.

not sure what his power / options were in retaining melo. I think that he really would rather him outta here.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

8/30/2015  1:34 PM
martin wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:I really don't get the misdirect blame thing u do..Donnie and MDA brought Amare here but u say Dolan..Dolan's Melo meddling saved us from DWill..Next couple of years, we might need him again...

dolan pays fisher and jackson from a separate checking account, one that does not have anything to do with the players' salaries. hence your hypocrisy in saying "x and y got paid therefore z should also get paid."

yes dolan was ultimately responsible for all the years up until jackson. then he finally admitted he did not know what he was doing. hence everything leading up to that admission has his paw prints and values all over it. isiaiah thomas promising the playoffs, marbury, crawford, zbo, curry, anucha and the whole mess... then walsh is virtually foisted on dolan and do you think dolan appreciates that? no he does not. he is behind the lbj sweepstakes, he is behind the stoudemire acquisition because of his "values," and he is clearly behind the melo trade-rape in 2011. proof is in how eager walsh was to hightail it out of msg.

you want the knicks to win you have to keep dolan far far away from the knicks.

So u still won't admit Amare was signed by Donnie and MDA..MDA resigned because Dolan didn't trade Melo for DWill..You won't admit that Phil resigned Melo..How do you decide which facts to acknowledge and not acknowledge and why would anyone take you seriously if the basics fact aren't even acknowledged?

come on man. the directive of win now when isaiah was here was from whom? obviously dolan! so isaiah, that miserable little shyt, lied to dolan saying he could build a winner on the fly and failed miserably. what a joke. and embarrassing.

the directive of pursuing lbj was given by dolan. no problem there. every imbecile can recognize a true franchise talent. but.......... when that failed dolan gave a directive-- a DIRECTIVE-- to walsh to pursue a marquee name to put.azzes.in.seats. that was not walsh. why would walsh take on a guy with uninsurable knees and depends on nash for his career? is amare a basketball decision or a business decision?

a gm's job is to try to put together a winner, but if the owner's desire is to put azzes in seats then guess what happens: the knicks.


I hate to butt in here but I'm gonna have to call you out on the bold. You and I had a similar debate a while ago. At the time, you were adamant that Amare was a Walsh signing. In fact, you actually made it out to look a lot more positive than you are now.

so far as walsh's intents with stoudemire, it is not a fact that it was a mistake to acquire him but it is a fact that walsh had to start someplace that summer. why is that a fact? because we all suffered from two years of emptiness and walsh had to reward our patience. it was necessary.

because walsh wanted to rebuild and that 2010-11 season was the first season of rebuild, after two season's of flushing thomas's poopoo away. that is not pandering. walsh is smarter than the fanbase but understands that they waited patiently for lebron james. so something had to be done. had to = necessity.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=46863&page=5

Now, there's nothing wrong with you seemingly having changed your mind but is that the case or no?

yes i definitely said those things and thanks for providing the link so i could look at my own words. here's the thing... yes i have shifted my point of view on walsh to one of his working from the directive of dolan vis a vis putting azzes in seats. i think he agreed to this scenario to appease dolan but did not expect the level of collusion that lebron, wade, and bosh stooped to. it caught everyone off guard. that said, i believe that if walsh had full autonomy he would have passed on stoudemire-- the move was a sign of desperation that i do not see as sourced in walsh's M.O. the next desperate move was the melo trade-- the desperation of that trade was clearly from dolan. anything desperate reeks of dolan.

i believe that until dolan admitted he did not know what he was doing you can assume it all comes from him, that the moves that the gms have made were never autonomous and refelcted the values of dolan, such as they are....

that's why i am optimistic about jackson's work here, if for no other reason than he has been promised full autonomy.

Does Phil have full autonomy??

He sure seems to have enough, don't you think?

For me, the Phil Files speaks volumes about things changing. One never knows but drafting long term, high potential KP, shedding all of the other players last year, bringing in the types of role players, etc. seems like a new regime under enough full autonomy.

What autonomy don't you think he has had that would have made a difference?

I completely agree with you...dk7 has argued otherwise to suit his various positions..But this is entirely Phil Jackson's show...

TeamBall
Posts: 24343
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/13/2012
Member: #4386

8/30/2015  1:39 PM
dk7th wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:I really don't get the misdirect blame thing u do..Donnie and MDA brought Amare here but u say Dolan..Dolan's Melo meddling saved us from DWill..Next couple of years, we might need him again...

dolan pays fisher and jackson from a separate checking account, one that does not have anything to do with the players' salaries. hence your hypocrisy in saying "x and y got paid therefore z should also get paid."

yes dolan was ultimately responsible for all the years up until jackson. then he finally admitted he did not know what he was doing. hence everything leading up to that admission has his paw prints and values all over it. isiaiah thomas promising the playoffs, marbury, crawford, zbo, curry, anucha and the whole mess... then walsh is virtually foisted on dolan and do you think dolan appreciates that? no he does not. he is behind the lbj sweepstakes, he is behind the stoudemire acquisition because of his "values," and he is clearly behind the melo trade-rape in 2011. proof is in how eager walsh was to hightail it out of msg.

you want the knicks to win you have to keep dolan far far away from the knicks.

So u still won't admit Amare was signed by Donnie and MDA..MDA resigned because Dolan didn't trade Melo for DWill..You won't admit that Phil resigned Melo..How do you decide which facts to acknowledge and not acknowledge and why would anyone take you seriously if the basics fact aren't even acknowledged?

come on man. the directive of win now when isaiah was here was from whom? obviously dolan! so isaiah, that miserable little shyt, lied to dolan saying he could build a winner on the fly and failed miserably. what a joke. and embarrassing.

the directive of pursuing lbj was given by dolan. no problem there. every imbecile can recognize a true franchise talent. but.......... when that failed dolan gave a directive-- a DIRECTIVE-- to walsh to pursue a marquee name to put.azzes.in.seats. that was not walsh. why would walsh take on a guy with uninsurable knees and depends on nash for his career? is amare a basketball decision or a business decision?

a gm's job is to try to put together a winner, but if the owner's desire is to put azzes in seats then guess what happens: the knicks.


I hate to butt in here but I'm gonna have to call you out on the bold. You and I had a similar debate a while ago. At the time, you were adamant that Amare was a Walsh signing. In fact, you actually made it out to look a lot more positive than you are now.

so far as walsh's intents with stoudemire, it is not a fact that it was a mistake to acquire him but it is a fact that walsh had to start someplace that summer. why is that a fact? because we all suffered from two years of emptiness and walsh had to reward our patience. it was necessary.

because walsh wanted to rebuild and that 2010-11 season was the first season of rebuild, after two season's of flushing thomas's poopoo away. that is not pandering. walsh is smarter than the fanbase but understands that they waited patiently for lebron james. so something had to be done. had to = necessity.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=46863&page=5

Now, there's nothing wrong with you seemingly having changed your mind but is that the case or no?

yes i definitely said those things and thanks for providing the link so i could look at my own words. here's the thing... yes i have shifted my point of view on walsh to one of his working from the directive of dolan vis a vis putting azzes in seats. i think he agreed to this scenario to appease dolan but did not expect the level of collusion that lebron, wade, and bosh stooped to. it caught everyone off guard. that said, i believe that if walsh had full autonomy he would have passed on stoudemire-- the move was a sign of desperation that i do not see as sourced in walsh's M.O. the next desperate move was the melo trade-- the desperation of that trade was clearly from dolan. anything desperate reeks of dolan.

i believe that until dolan admitted he did not know what he was doing you can assume it all comes from him, that the moves that the gms have made were never autonomous and refelcted the values of dolan, such as they are....

that's why i am optimistic about jackson's work here, if for no other reason than he has been promised full autonomy.


Ok, fair enough. We're in agreement about Melo ultimately being Dolan's call. Amare, on the other hand, I think was a Walsh panic move.
And of course we're in agreement that Phil having full autonomy would be for the better after what Dolan has done.
Knicksfan: Hypocrite league that fines players after the game for flopping but in the game and with obvious flopping they call the fouls.
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

8/30/2015  1:40 PM
mreinman wrote:
martin wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:I really don't get the misdirect blame thing u do..Donnie and MDA brought Amare here but u say Dolan..Dolan's Melo meddling saved us from DWill..Next couple of years, we might need him again...

dolan pays fisher and jackson from a separate checking account, one that does not have anything to do with the players' salaries. hence your hypocrisy in saying "x and y got paid therefore z should also get paid."

yes dolan was ultimately responsible for all the years up until jackson. then he finally admitted he did not know what he was doing. hence everything leading up to that admission has his paw prints and values all over it. isiaiah thomas promising the playoffs, marbury, crawford, zbo, curry, anucha and the whole mess... then walsh is virtually foisted on dolan and do you think dolan appreciates that? no he does not. he is behind the lbj sweepstakes, he is behind the stoudemire acquisition because of his "values," and he is clearly behind the melo trade-rape in 2011. proof is in how eager walsh was to hightail it out of msg.

you want the knicks to win you have to keep dolan far far away from the knicks.

So u still won't admit Amare was signed by Donnie and MDA..MDA resigned because Dolan didn't trade Melo for DWill..You won't admit that Phil resigned Melo..How do you decide which facts to acknowledge and not acknowledge and why would anyone take you seriously if the basics fact aren't even acknowledged?

come on man. the directive of win now when isaiah was here was from whom? obviously dolan! so isaiah, that miserable little shyt, lied to dolan saying he could build a winner on the fly and failed miserably. what a joke. and embarrassing.

the directive of pursuing lbj was given by dolan. no problem there. every imbecile can recognize a true franchise talent. but.......... when that failed dolan gave a directive-- a DIRECTIVE-- to walsh to pursue a marquee name to put.azzes.in.seats. that was not walsh. why would walsh take on a guy with uninsurable knees and depends on nash for his career? is amare a basketball decision or a business decision?

a gm's job is to try to put together a winner, but if the owner's desire is to put azzes in seats then guess what happens: the knicks.


I hate to butt in here but I'm gonna have to call you out on the bold. You and I had a similar debate a while ago. At the time, you were adamant that Amare was a Walsh signing. In fact, you actually made it out to look a lot more positive than you are now.

so far as walsh's intents with stoudemire, it is not a fact that it was a mistake to acquire him but it is a fact that walsh had to start someplace that summer. why is that a fact? because we all suffered from two years of emptiness and walsh had to reward our patience. it was necessary.

because walsh wanted to rebuild and that 2010-11 season was the first season of rebuild, after two season's of flushing thomas's poopoo away. that is not pandering. walsh is smarter than the fanbase but understands that they waited patiently for lebron james. so something had to be done. had to = necessity.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=46863&page=5

Now, there's nothing wrong with you seemingly having changed your mind but is that the case or no?

yes i definitely said those things and thanks for providing the link so i could look at my own words. here's the thing... yes i have shifted my point of view on walsh to one of his working from the directive of dolan vis a vis putting azzes in seats. i think he agreed to this scenario to appease dolan but did not expect the level of collusion that lebron, wade, and bosh stooped to. it caught everyone off guard. that said, i believe that if walsh had full autonomy he would have passed on stoudemire-- the move was a sign of desperation that i do not see as sourced in walsh's M.O. the next desperate move was the melo trade-- the desperation of that trade was clearly from dolan. anything desperate reeks of dolan.

i believe that until dolan admitted he did not know what he was doing you can assume it all comes from him, that the moves that the gms have made were never autonomous and refelcted the values of dolan, such as they are....

that's why i am optimistic about jackson's work here, if for no other reason than he has been promised full autonomy.

Does Phil have full autonomy??

He sure seems to have enough, don't you think?

For me, the Phil Files speaks volumes about things changing. One never knows but drafting long term, high potential KP, shedding all of the other players last year, bringing in the types of role players, etc. seems like a new regime under enough full autonomy.

What autonomy don't you think he has had that would have made a difference?

choosing his own medical staff and keeping Isiah out of the loop.

not sure what his power / options were in retaining melo. I think that he really would rather him outta here.

The old James Dolan escape clause...Phil couldn't choose his own medical staff because the one in place is for all MSG employees, not just the team..Phil is head of basketball operations...

StarksEwing1
Posts: 32671
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/28/2012
Member: #4451

8/30/2015  1:42 PM
TeamBall wrote:
dk7th wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:I really don't get the misdirect blame thing u do..Donnie and MDA brought Amare here but u say Dolan..Dolan's Melo meddling saved us from DWill..Next couple of years, we might need him again...

dolan pays fisher and jackson from a separate checking account, one that does not have anything to do with the players' salaries. hence your hypocrisy in saying "x and y got paid therefore z should also get paid."

yes dolan was ultimately responsible for all the years up until jackson. then he finally admitted he did not know what he was doing. hence everything leading up to that admission has his paw prints and values all over it. isiaiah thomas promising the playoffs, marbury, crawford, zbo, curry, anucha and the whole mess... then walsh is virtually foisted on dolan and do you think dolan appreciates that? no he does not. he is behind the lbj sweepstakes, he is behind the stoudemire acquisition because of his "values," and he is clearly behind the melo trade-rape in 2011. proof is in how eager walsh was to hightail it out of msg.

you want the knicks to win you have to keep dolan far far away from the knicks.

So u still won't admit Amare was signed by Donnie and MDA..MDA resigned because Dolan didn't trade Melo for DWill..You won't admit that Phil resigned Melo..How do you decide which facts to acknowledge and not acknowledge and why would anyone take you seriously if the basics fact aren't even acknowledged?

come on man. the directive of win now when isaiah was here was from whom? obviously dolan! so isaiah, that miserable little shyt, lied to dolan saying he could build a winner on the fly and failed miserably. what a joke. and embarrassing.

the directive of pursuing lbj was given by dolan. no problem there. every imbecile can recognize a true franchise talent. but.......... when that failed dolan gave a directive-- a DIRECTIVE-- to walsh to pursue a marquee name to put.azzes.in.seats. that was not walsh. why would walsh take on a guy with uninsurable knees and depends on nash for his career? is amare a basketball decision or a business decision?

a gm's job is to try to put together a winner, but if the owner's desire is to put azzes in seats then guess what happens: the knicks.


I hate to butt in here but I'm gonna have to call you out on the bold. You and I had a similar debate a while ago. At the time, you were adamant that Amare was a Walsh signing. In fact, you actually made it out to look a lot more positive than you are now.

so far as walsh's intents with stoudemire, it is not a fact that it was a mistake to acquire him but it is a fact that walsh had to start someplace that summer. why is that a fact? because we all suffered from two years of emptiness and walsh had to reward our patience. it was necessary.

because walsh wanted to rebuild and that 2010-11 season was the first season of rebuild, after two season's of flushing thomas's poopoo away. that is not pandering. walsh is smarter than the fanbase but understands that they waited patiently for lebron james. so something had to be done. had to = necessity.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=46863&page=5

Now, there's nothing wrong with you seemingly having changed your mind but is that the case or no?

yes i definitely said those things and thanks for providing the link so i could look at my own words. here's the thing... yes i have shifted my point of view on walsh to one of his working from the directive of dolan vis a vis putting azzes in seats. i think he agreed to this scenario to appease dolan but did not expect the level of collusion that lebron, wade, and bosh stooped to. it caught everyone off guard. that said, i believe that if walsh had full autonomy he would have passed on stoudemire-- the move was a sign of desperation that i do not see as sourced in walsh's M.O. the next desperate move was the melo trade-- the desperation of that trade was clearly from dolan. anything desperate reeks of dolan.

i believe that until dolan admitted he did not know what he was doing you can assume it all comes from him, that the moves that the gms have made were never autonomous and refelcted the values of dolan, such as they are....

that's why i am optimistic about jackson's work here, if for no other reason than he has been promised full autonomy.


Ok, fair enough. We're in agreement about Melo ultimately being Dolan's call. Amare, on the other hand, I think was a Walsh panic move.
And of course we're in agreement that Phil having full autonomy would be for the better after what Dolan has done.
i had no problem with the amare signing even though 5 years was too long. If walsh did nothing the fanbase would have been pissed. The mistake walsh made was using the amnesty clause on billups instead of amare
Article: It is time we respect Carmelo Anthony

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy