nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:His teams stunk.

He stunk

they both made each other worse.

Harden made his stinkies better. Melo makes his stinkies worse.

Melo sets the playoff tone for sucking ass and taking the most phucked up shots/selection in playoff history.

I have played bball for years. When I play with a chucker I look for worse than I do than if I play with a leader.

PASS THE PHUKINKG BALL YOU JACKASS!!! ME70 WILL NEVER GET IT NO MATTER HOW MUCH PHIL SHOVES HIS BIG ZENIS DOWN HIS THROAT!

Harden and Melo are 2 totally different players. Harden has the ball in his hands and is a guard. When things are going wrong with the Knicks, Melo usually gets the ball after everyone else has begged off taking a shot and then he has to bail the team out. Sometimes he may bring the ball up but he's not Lebron or Harden. Melo needs a PG who can make great decisions for the team and set him up properly. He needs a good team around him as well. He's not the kind of Player that creates for his teammates like Lebron or Harden.

Melo is a PF/SF and not a Point Forward. When the team won 54 games it was a good style of play to start the year. The key to success this year is being able to improve the play of the team around Melo. The better the players around him can perform the more success the team will have, like it did during the 54 win season. It's not all up to Melo to make the team win. He should not be the initiator of the offense like a Lebron or Harden. Things work out better when Melo can be a sniper and an offensive force that teams have to worry about but in the mix with other players doing their job.

fair post.

Melo does need a facilitator that is a LEADER. That is why he performed so well with (good) kidd and CB LEADING the team.

Melo is definitely a sniper, however, when he is missing badly, he needs someone to get the damn ball out of his hands. Jerian is not going to be that guy even if he turns into an ok player. Thinking that he will be is just pipe dreaming.

I wouldn't be so sure. Jerian will be coached by Fish who most certainly will be teaching him how he handle things with Kobe when it was time to make sure other players got the ball. Jerian has been a primary scorer himself for his team and isn't scared to take control of his team. I think Jerian is perfect for what this team needs to be successful. He's gonna look to push the ball, setup teammates, run the Drag Screens with the bigs and also look to score at the basket and with his jumper. He's literally the most well rounded guard we've had in a long time.

+1 Jerian grant is more than capable of creating his own and taking charge.

BRIGGS wrote:This would've been a better look with much less long term money spent

C Oquinn
Pf Melo
Sf Andersen
Sg Affalo
Pg Schveyd

C Aldrich
F Porzingis
G Powell
G Galloway
G Calderon

C Kuzmic
Pf Admundson
F Ndor
G Early
G Mike James

The bench looks better than the one we have. I would take our starting five over yours easily though.

BRIGGS wrote:This would've been a better look with much less long term money spent

C Oquinn
Pf Melo
Sf Andersen
Sg Affalo
Pg Schveyd

C Aldrich
F Porzingis
G Powell
G Galloway
G Calderon

C Kuzmic
Pf Admundson
F Ndor
G Early
G Mike James

The bench looks better than the one we have. I would take our starting five over yours easily though.

nixluva wrote:

fwk00 wrote:Is today Negative Nancy day? Good grief. Are we back to dumping on Dolan, Phil can do no right, Fisher sucks, and nobody on this team is any good before they even step on the court?

Get some counseling fer crissakes. Or find another team before you jump out the basement window and hurt yourselves.

It seems to me that if the new additions perform at their expected levels this should be a competitive team. It starts with a healthy Melo. People can hate on Melo but really his presence on the roster with the new additions should allow this team to be a playoff contender. But he's got to be healthy and in NBA form, which we won't know until he gets back on the court.

The addition of RoLo, Afflalo and O'Quinn should help to make this team more stable. They aren't sexy pick ups but they are hard workers on both ends. Helping this team to be a much better defensive team is a very important key to success this year. We really need bounce back seasons from RoLo and Afflalo. The better they play next to Melo, the better chance this team has to get wins.

Gallo, Jose, LT, Early and Lou should be even more comfortable after a season in the system. We gotta hope Jose can be more efficient and stay healthy. Gallo and Early need to take a step forward in their development this year.

Then we have KP and Jerian, who we hope can contribute at a reasonable rookie level. They won't have to carry the action as our kids did last year.

One question is what will we be able to get out of DWill. He could be a real X factor this year. He's got a lot of untapped talent and if we can get him going it could really provide a nice boost.

There are a lot of questions going into this season but there is also a lot of good news and hope to be more competitive than last year.

In truth, there is no last season to discuss. Phil tried it Melo's way and it failed none of which is either Melo's or Phil's fault (not that that will stop the blame game). The season simply turned into a transition year. Assuming the obligatory and mandatory tanking exercise were not a factor, the second half team would have won about 25 games and had Melo and others been healthy, maybe as many as thirty. The draft distorts everyone's record.

I think the Knicks can conservatively win 42-45 games IFF the main players stay healthy. Any significant injuries are a playoffs stopper.

I don't think Melo will leave nor do I think he's upset. Where would he go to be guaranteed *anything*. No such place. He can and will win here. I like all the signings. Phil has assembled a roster that is built to win. Grant is going to be a force as will Krisp. That's a Big Three in the making. And Melo is no longer alone in the final seconds taking the last shot - Sasha and Gallo both aren't afraid to shoot. It makes a big difference.

I'm looking forward to the season.

As an aside, I'm so glad the Knicks cut Ledo.

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

TPercy wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

TPercy wrote:

holfresh wrote:

TPercy wrote:

holfresh wrote:You guys are all dreaming..The triangle needs Melo more than Melo needs the triangle...Show me the Phil Jackson team that ran the triangle that didn't have a gunner or a guy running ISO inside of 5 mins of the 4th quarter..This guy is Porzingis??..Don't make me laugh..Phil Jackson won't survive a year outside Melo's departure...If Melo ask for a trade, you are looking at sub 30 win seasons for the next few years..This will seal the fact the Phil's tenure was a failure..

We are already looking at a sub 30 win team. This team will be lucky to even win 34 games with the team we have if melo keeps on playing the way he is playing. Melo is nowhere near the level of Jordan or Kobe. Do you really think melo not playing team basketball or defense is going to lead us to a fifty win team with any squad we have? Either way we are screwd. If we trade melo we are looking at getting multiple picks back and or players that will and/or players decent players that will at least make the effort. If we trade melo and get a reasonable package back it up ill do far from making Phil a faluire.

Melo has led 8 teams that have won 50+ games and one thats been to the WCF...

So what. The triangle emphasizes team and high IQ play. Does melo possess any of that? No. Simple.

You just asked if Melo can lead a 50 win team and I answered...

Many feel that Kidd led team54.

Kidd also is credited with its demise.

So why didn't Phil give Kidd 124 mil??..Guys seriously, let's try to be adults and talk about things that are true and relavent..Stop wasting people's valuable time..

Melo get his contract because his brand is increasing the value of Knicks franchise regardless of how Melo fits in bbal system Knicks are playing. He fills the seats of the garden with celebs and casual tourists, he ignites team apparel sales, provided entertainment in social media (more stupid his statements are the better).
MSG not only will get money back for all money they paid to Melo but will get 5-fold profits.
Signing Melo was no-brainier from business perspective.
Probably MSG can run his as positive asset for another year or 2 and then dump him on some small market team for them to get some leftovers.

Why is it so difficult for most of you to admit the reason the Knicks haven't performed well is because of Melo's supporting cast which doesn't exist??

Because it is not true.

Really. Who has performed well? Also, JR does come to mind but he failed every spring.

the knicks haven't performed well because melo forced a trade-- with dolan's blessing-- of good players and thrust the knicks into win-now mode. the team has been in turmoil ever since he arrived, including the 54 wins, with dolan meddling all the way. the trail of destruction from these two malignant narcissists is clear. dolan finally admitted he does not understand what he is doing and agreed to step aside with only one demand, that melo be retained. melo refused to do the right thing by taking a meaningful pay cut because in spite of all the words he is all about money and branding.

nevertheless at least someone talked sense to dolan who agreed to hire jackson... and the rebuild finally began. too bad melo thought that he could have his cake and eat it too. but then he is very stupid and very selfish.

culture change means cleaning up dolan and melo's doodoo. that's the core issue, not some idiotic "supporting cast" bullshyte.

The question was regarding the players on the team. I can't think of an answer but it wasn't posed so that you could go to your talking points. What teammates of Melo on the Knicks have performed well?

i answered the way that i did because you have reading comprehension problems as well as difficulties reasoning without lying as well as an inability to retain information when it has been presented to you.

You think you answered the question who has preformed well on the Knicks during Melo's tenure? I haven't seen a name yet.

the question posed is an example of a red herring, and is poorly conceived and poorly written. the essence of it however is as a fallacy.

that you see it as legitimate or missed its obvious fallaciousness shows a primitive and limited form of reasoning, something you clearly share with holfresh.

So you can't name anyone. Got it.

checkmate.

read it and weep:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1952947-flawed-ny-knicks-still-paying-dearly-for-carmelo-anthonys-original-sin

This is really tough I guess. The discussion was about Melo's teammates during his tenure as a Knick. It wasn't about his or Dolan's character and it wasn't a rehash of the trade or the merits of the trade. It is just about his teammates as a Knick. Here was the context where the discussion,

Why is it so difficult for most of you to admit the reason the Knicks haven't performed well is because of Melo's supporting cast which doesn't exist??

Because it is not true.
Really. Who has performed well? Also, JR does come to mind but he failed every spring.

Still waiting on names of players.

i can't be bothered to dumb this down for you. one more time: THE QUESTION IS INVALID

TPercy wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:This would've been a better look with much less long term money spent

C Oquinn
Pf Melo
Sf Andersen
Sg Affalo
Pg Schveyd

C Aldrich
F Porzingis
G Powell
G Galloway
G Calderon

C Kuzmic
Pf Admundson
F Ndor
G Early
G Mike James

The bench looks better than the one we have. I would take our starting five over yours easily though.

Actually I think putting melo at 4 and moving Calderon to a third guard position off the bench and retaining Schveyd makes this first unit better. I dont have to over play Melo and I would expect big production out of unit 2. I dont see spending 13.5mm per on Lopez when I can get excellent production from Oquinn Aldrich and Kuzmic for almost nothing. Wouldve kept Ndor and signed him to 3 years. While I was an original proponent for Derrick Williams 10mm for 2 is way to steep and I wouldve drafted Andersen at 19 for the position.

fwk00 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fwk00 wrote:Is today Negative Nancy day? Good grief. Are we back to dumping on Dolan, Phil can do no right, Fisher sucks, and nobody on this team is any good before they even step on the court?

Get some counseling fer crissakes. Or find another team before you jump out the basement window and hurt yourselves.

It seems to me that if the new additions perform at their expected levels this should be a competitive team. It starts with a healthy Melo. People can hate on Melo but really his presence on the roster with the new additions should allow this team to be a playoff contender. But he's got to be healthy and in NBA form, which we won't know until he gets back on the court.

The addition of RoLo, Afflalo and O'Quinn should help to make this team more stable. They aren't sexy pick ups but they are hard workers on both ends. Helping this team to be a much better defensive team is a very important key to success this year. We really need bounce back seasons from RoLo and Afflalo. The better they play next to Melo, the better chance this team has to get wins.

Gallo, Jose, LT, Early and Lou should be even more comfortable after a season in the system. We gotta hope Jose can be more efficient and stay healthy. Gallo and Early need to take a step forward in their development this year.

Then we have KP and Jerian, who we hope can contribute at a reasonable rookie level. They won't have to carry the action as our kids did last year.

One question is what will we be able to get out of DWill. He could be a real X factor this year. He's got a lot of untapped talent and if we can get him going it could really provide a nice boost.

There are a lot of questions going into this season but there is also a lot of good news and hope to be more competitive than last year.

Well, "last year" is being misinterpreted by way too many people. It represented a transformation. The first half of the year was Phil providing Melo with empirical evidence that that current roster wasn't winning anything even if Bargnani and Calderon were healthy. Melo's early season injury sealed the deal. So when you factor in no Melo and an unmotivated cadre of vets, the Knicks weren't winning a playoff spot. After that the season was a well-orchestrated drive to lose. To think otherwise and whine endlessly about a 17 win season is just psychotic.

In truth, there is no last season to discuss. Phil tried it Melo's way and it failed none of which is either Melo's or Phil's fault (not that that will stop the blame game). The season simply turned into a transition year. Assuming the obligatory and mandatory tanking exercise were not a factor, the second half team would have won about 25 games and had Melo and others been healthy, maybe as many as thirty. The draft distorts everyone's record.

I think the Knicks can conservatively win 42-45 games IFF the main players stay healthy. Any significant injuries are a playoffs stopper.

I don't think Melo will leave nor do I think he's upset. Where would he go to be guaranteed *anything*. No such place. He can and will win here. I like all the signings. Phil has assembled a roster that is built to win. Grant is going to be a force as will Krisp. That's a Big Three in the making. And Melo is no longer alone in the final seconds taking the last shot - Sasha and Gallo both aren't afraid to shoot. It makes a big difference.

I'm looking forward to the season.

As an aside, I'm so glad the Knicks cut Ledo.

Be careful....optimism is not allowed.....around here!

But I agree. Melo reads all the negative criticism and Im sure hes motivated.

blkexec wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fwk00 wrote:Is today Negative Nancy day? Good grief. Are we back to dumping on Dolan, Phil can do no right, Fisher sucks, and nobody on this team is any good before they even step on the court?

Get some counseling fer crissakes. Or find another team before you jump out the basement window and hurt yourselves.

It seems to me that if the new additions perform at their expected levels this should be a competitive team. It starts with a healthy Melo. People can hate on Melo but really his presence on the roster with the new additions should allow this team to be a playoff contender. But he's got to be healthy and in NBA form, which we won't know until he gets back on the court.

The addition of RoLo, Afflalo and O'Quinn should help to make this team more stable. They aren't sexy pick ups but they are hard workers on both ends. Helping this team to be a much better defensive team is a very important key to success this year. We really need bounce back seasons from RoLo and Afflalo. The better they play next to Melo, the better chance this team has to get wins.

Gallo, Jose, LT, Early and Lou should be even more comfortable after a season in the system. We gotta hope Jose can be more efficient and stay healthy. Gallo and Early need to take a step forward in their development this year.

Then we have KP and Jerian, who we hope can contribute at a reasonable rookie level. They won't have to carry the action as our kids did last year.

One question is what will we be able to get out of DWill. He could be a real X factor this year. He's got a lot of untapped talent and if we can get him going it could really provide a nice boost.

There are a lot of questions going into this season but there is also a lot of good news and hope to be more competitive than last year.

Well, "last year" is being misinterpreted by way too many people. It represented a transformation. The first half of the year was Phil providing Melo with empirical evidence that that current roster wasn't winning anything even if Bargnani and Calderon were healthy. Melo's early season injury sealed the deal. So when you factor in no Melo and an unmotivated cadre of vets, the Knicks weren't winning a playoff spot. After that the season was a well-orchestrated drive to lose. To think otherwise and whine endlessly about a 17 win season is just psychotic.

In truth, there is no last season to discuss. Phil tried it Melo's way and it failed none of which is either Melo's or Phil's fault (not that that will stop the blame game). The season simply turned into a transition year. Assuming the obligatory and mandatory tanking exercise were not a factor, the second half team would have won about 25 games and had Melo and others been healthy, maybe as many as thirty. The draft distorts everyone's record.

I think the Knicks can conservatively win 42-45 games IFF the main players stay healthy. Any significant injuries are a playoffs stopper.

I don't think Melo will leave nor do I think he's upset. Where would he go to be guaranteed *anything*. No such place. He can and will win here. I like all the signings. Phil has assembled a roster that is built to win. Grant is going to be a force as will Krisp. That's a Big Three in the making. And Melo is no longer alone in the final seconds taking the last shot - Sasha and Gallo both aren't afraid to shoot. It makes a big difference.

I'm looking forward to the season.

As an aside, I'm so glad the Knicks cut Ledo.

Be careful....optimism is not allowed.....

But I agree. Melo reads all the negative criticism and Im sure hes motivated.

optimism is allowed but after a while, its laughed at.

realism is prefered.

mreinman wrote:

blkexec wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fwk00 wrote:Is today Negative Nancy day? Good grief. Are we back to dumping on Dolan, Phil can do no right, Fisher sucks, and nobody on this team is any good before they even step on the court?

Get some counseling fer crissakes. Or find another team before you jump out the basement window and hurt yourselves.

It seems to me that if the new additions perform at their expected levels this should be a competitive team. It starts with a healthy Melo. People can hate on Melo but really his presence on the roster with the new additions should allow this team to be a playoff contender. But he's got to be healthy and in NBA form, which we won't know until he gets back on the court.

The addition of RoLo, Afflalo and O'Quinn should help to make this team more stable. They aren't sexy pick ups but they are hard workers on both ends. Helping this team to be a much better defensive team is a very important key to success this year. We really need bounce back seasons from RoLo and Afflalo. The better they play next to Melo, the better chance this team has to get wins.

Gallo, Jose, LT, Early and Lou should be even more comfortable after a season in the system. We gotta hope Jose can be more efficient and stay healthy. Gallo and Early need to take a step forward in their development this year.

Then we have KP and Jerian, who we hope can contribute at a reasonable rookie level. They won't have to carry the action as our kids did last year.

One question is what will we be able to get out of DWill. He could be a real X factor this year. He's got a lot of untapped talent and if we can get him going it could really provide a nice boost.

There are a lot of questions going into this season but there is also a lot of good news and hope to be more competitive than last year.

Well, "last year" is being misinterpreted by way too many people. It represented a transformation. The first half of the year was Phil providing Melo with empirical evidence that that current roster wasn't winning anything even if Bargnani and Calderon were healthy. Melo's early season injury sealed the deal. So when you factor in no Melo and an unmotivated cadre of vets, the Knicks weren't winning a playoff spot. After that the season was a well-orchestrated drive to lose. To think otherwise and whine endlessly about a 17 win season is just psychotic.

In truth, there is no last season to discuss. Phil tried it Melo's way and it failed none of which is either Melo's or Phil's fault (not that that will stop the blame game). The season simply turned into a transition year. Assuming the obligatory and mandatory tanking exercise were not a factor, the second half team would have won about 25 games and had Melo and others been healthy, maybe as many as thirty. The draft distorts everyone's record.

I think the Knicks can conservatively win 42-45 games IFF the main players stay healthy. Any significant injuries are a playoffs stopper.

I don't think Melo will leave nor do I think he's upset. Where would he go to be guaranteed *anything*. No such place. He can and will win here. I like all the signings. Phil has assembled a roster that is built to win. Grant is going to be a force as will Krisp. That's a Big Three in the making. And Melo is no longer alone in the final seconds taking the last shot - Sasha and Gallo both aren't afraid to shoot. It makes a big difference.

I'm looking forward to the season.

As an aside, I'm so glad the Knicks cut Ledo.

Be careful....optimism is not allowed.....

But I agree. Melo reads all the negative criticism and Im sure hes motivated.

optimism is allowed but after a while, its laughed at.

realism is prefered.

I actually laugh at the notion that someone believes their realism opinions are more real than someone else's realism opinions. It's a message board and just because someone has more time or more desire to Google up advanced stats does not make their argument more valid or mean they know more about how to build a professional roster than the next guy.

blkexec wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fwk00 wrote:Is today Negative Nancy day? Good grief. Are we back to dumping on Dolan, Phil can do no right, Fisher sucks, and nobody on this team is any good before they even step on the court?

Get some counseling fer crissakes. Or find another team before you jump out the basement window and hurt yourselves.

It seems to me that if the new additions perform at their expected levels this should be a competitive team. It starts with a healthy Melo. People can hate on Melo but really his presence on the roster with the new additions should allow this team to be a playoff contender. But he's got to be healthy and in NBA form, which we won't know until he gets back on the court.

The addition of RoLo, Afflalo and O'Quinn should help to make this team more stable. They aren't sexy pick ups but they are hard workers on both ends. Helping this team to be a much better defensive team is a very important key to success this year. We really need bounce back seasons from RoLo and Afflalo. The better they play next to Melo, the better chance this team has to get wins.

Gallo, Jose, LT, Early and Lou should be even more comfortable after a season in the system. We gotta hope Jose can be more efficient and stay healthy. Gallo and Early need to take a step forward in their development this year.

Then we have KP and Jerian, who we hope can contribute at a reasonable rookie level. They won't have to carry the action as our kids did last year.

One question is what will we be able to get out of DWill. He could be a real X factor this year. He's got a lot of untapped talent and if we can get him going it could really provide a nice boost.

There are a lot of questions going into this season but there is also a lot of good news and hope to be more competitive than last year.

Well, "last year" is being misinterpreted by way too many people. It represented a transformation. The first half of the year was Phil providing Melo with empirical evidence that that current roster wasn't winning anything even if Bargnani and Calderon were healthy. Melo's early season injury sealed the deal. So when you factor in no Melo and an unmotivated cadre of vets, the Knicks weren't winning a playoff spot. After that the season was a well-orchestrated drive to lose. To think otherwise and whine endlessly about a 17 win season is just psychotic.

In truth, there is no last season to discuss. Phil tried it Melo's way and it failed none of which is either Melo's or Phil's fault (not that that will stop the blame game). The season simply turned into a transition year. Assuming the obligatory and mandatory tanking exercise were not a factor, the second half team would have won about 25 games and had Melo and others been healthy, maybe as many as thirty. The draft distorts everyone's record.

I think the Knicks can conservatively win 42-45 games IFF the main players stay healthy. Any significant injuries are a playoffs stopper.

I don't think Melo will leave nor do I think he's upset. Where would he go to be guaranteed *anything*. No such place. He can and will win here. I like all the signings. Phil has assembled a roster that is built to win. Grant is going to be a force as will Krisp. That's a Big Three in the making. And Melo is no longer alone in the final seconds taking the last shot - Sasha and Gallo both aren't afraid to shoot. It makes a big difference.

I'm looking forward to the season.

As an aside, I'm so glad the Knicks cut Ledo.

Be careful....optimism is not allowed.....around here!

But I agree. Melo reads all the negative criticism and Im sure hes motivated.

I'm not even a fan of Carmelo. I have many frustrations. But I do like the guy. I think he's authentic, decent, and hard-working. I also think Dolan and Phil respect him.

I have yet to see a credible account of Melo being upset with what's going on. Phil included him in the process. Now, there are plenty of people who profit from *claiming* Melo is upset, I get that. But repeating a falsehood over and over and over x 1M posts doesn't make it true. However, within his entourage - to keep his friends happy, he may bad mouth one thing or another to be one of the cohorts, I get that too. I think Phil knows the difference and is happy to oblige being the virtual pinata. Why should he care?

As for Melo, he's got it made in NY. His wife loves it, he does business here, and if he plays well he's the Prince of the most important sports city in the world. Where could he demand a trade to where all of that is his to own? And what team is pining for Melo? IMO, Melo is going nowhere. He will win here.

The other pernicious meme that is horse**** is the idea that this team as currently constructed cannot win is wrong. Phil has put together a damned fine group of players WHO ARE SMART. Nobody's going to be sleeping on this team. I am very excited about seeing how this plays out