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Most of these signings moves really have very little tod with the future of the knicks
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holfresh
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8/3/2015  10:42 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/3/2015  10:42 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:
holfresh wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
holfresh wrote:You guys are all dreaming..The triangle needs Melo more than Melo needs the triangle...Show me the Phil Jackson team that ran the triangle that didn't have a gunner or a guy running ISO inside of 5 mins of the 4th quarter..This guy is Porzingis??..Don't make me laugh..Phil Jackson won't survive a year outside Melo's departure...If Melo ask for a trade, you are looking at sub 30 win seasons for the next few years..This will seal the fact the Phil's tenure was a failure..

Michael Jordan averaged 8 Assists a game the season before Phil Jackson took over, so he was already a good fit for the triangle. Kobe Bryant averaged 5 assists a game while in Jackson's triangle.

Melo is just a bad fit for any structured offense, period. He needs the ball in his hands, he can't play the game away the ball like the great ones can.

Even Melo's finest career moment in Syracuse, guess how many assists he had in the Championship game....One.

Well we all know that a high assist total is more important than winning a Championship..If Phil feels that way, he should talk Melo into a trade...

That's the whole point really. Bad fit, no hard feelings. Jackson will probably have a heart to heart midway through this season to see if it's best to trade by the deadline or wait until after the season.

Bad fit?..Do you not think Phil knew who Melo was when he gave him 124 mil??..Who do you think got it wrong, you or Phil??

AUTOADVERT
arkrud
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8/3/2015  10:46 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:
holfresh wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
holfresh wrote:You guys are all dreaming..The triangle needs Melo more than Melo needs the triangle...Show me the Phil Jackson team that ran the triangle that didn't have a gunner or a guy running ISO inside of 5 mins of the 4th quarter..This guy is Porzingis??..Don't make me laugh..Phil Jackson won't survive a year outside Melo's departure...If Melo ask for a trade, you are looking at sub 30 win seasons for the next few years..This will seal the fact the Phil's tenure was a failure..

Michael Jordan averaged 8 Assists a game the season before Phil Jackson took over, so he was already a good fit for the triangle. Kobe Bryant averaged 5 assists a game while in Jackson's triangle.

Melo is just a bad fit for any structured offense, period. He needs the ball in his hands, he can't play the game away the ball like the great ones can.

Even Melo's finest career moment in Syracuse, guess how many assists he had in the Championship game....One.

Well we all know that a high assist total is more important than winning a Championship..If Phil feels that way, he should talk Melo into a trade...

That's the whole point really. Bad fit, no hard feelings. Jackson will probably have a heart to heart midway through this season to see if it's best to trade by the deadline or wait until after the season.

The benefits for the team are clear, the benefits for Melo are not.
If he will start declining following the surgery no one will trade him with the contract he has.
If he will return to his old self only bad teams will wont him for this money.
But why he will go to bad team?
It requires serious Zen to unload Melo... Highly doubting task.
Most likely he will be around through slow rebuild. He set himself up for this. Now is the time to pay the price... moral price.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
ChuckBuck
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8/3/2015  10:48 AM
holfresh wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
holfresh wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
holfresh wrote:You guys are all dreaming..The triangle needs Melo more than Melo needs the triangle...Show me the Phil Jackson team that ran the triangle that didn't have a gunner or a guy running ISO inside of 5 mins of the 4th quarter..This guy is Porzingis??..Don't make me laugh..Phil Jackson won't survive a year outside Melo's departure...If Melo ask for a trade, you are looking at sub 30 win seasons for the next few years..This will seal the fact the Phil's tenure was a failure..

Michael Jordan averaged 8 Assists a game the season before Phil Jackson took over, so he was already a good fit for the triangle. Kobe Bryant averaged 5 assists a game while in Jackson's triangle.

Melo is just a bad fit for any structured offense, period. He needs the ball in his hands, he can't play the game away the ball like the great ones can.

Even Melo's finest career moment in Syracuse, guess how many assists he had in the Championship game....One.

Well we all know that a high assist total is more important than winning a Championship..If Phil feels that way, he should talk Melo into a trade...

That's the whole point really. Bad fit, no hard feelings. Jackson will probably have a heart to heart midway through this season to see if it's best to trade by the deadline or wait until after the season.

Bad fit?..Do you not think Phil knew who Melo was when he gave him 124 mil??..Who do you think got it wrong, you or Phil??

Melo is still a worthwhile trade chip to have. Especially with the exploding cap, teams with cap space and assets would not balk to make the transaction.

BRIGGS
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8/3/2015  10:51 AM
="knicks1248"]
BRIGGS wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:Don't see why Grant is not part of the future at this point, and I don't know enough about OQuinn to make a real comment about his.

Still not sure where Thanasis and Early stand, too. Probably not starters, but can they be rotation players at some point?

Have to see this group play for a couple of years before making this kind of evaluation or prediction.

We will see.

I'm not down playing anyone as a solid role player . I just think the key to anything is kp

How many Rookies did Ewing play with as the knicks franchise player for 17 yrs. The core of the knicks (in the ewing era) flipped every 2 to 4 yrs. Starks, Oak mason ewing.

Even in the knicks championship yrs, they traded for vets before they won titles. You get a couple pieces and then you make trades, and acquire fA's

I really have no idea what your talking about briggs, phil just scratch the surface this off season

It will take 2-3 years for kp to figure out how good he can be/ develop his body and form his game. By that time I don't expect many who ate on this roster now will be here. It is possible some of these guys turn into valuable trade chips. If all of a sudden were trading Melo Lopez and Affalo we may be able to really grab a good draw to continue to rebuild with. I would consider our core of the team kp grant and Oquinn -- right now willy g is just an asset.

RIP Crushalot😞
holfresh
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8/3/2015  10:58 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/3/2015  10:59 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:
holfresh wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
holfresh wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
holfresh wrote:You guys are all dreaming..The triangle needs Melo more than Melo needs the triangle...Show me the Phil Jackson team that ran the triangle that didn't have a gunner or a guy running ISO inside of 5 mins of the 4th quarter..This guy is Porzingis??..Don't make me laugh..Phil Jackson won't survive a year outside Melo's departure...If Melo ask for a trade, you are looking at sub 30 win seasons for the next few years..This will seal the fact the Phil's tenure was a failure..

Michael Jordan averaged 8 Assists a game the season before Phil Jackson took over, so he was already a good fit for the triangle. Kobe Bryant averaged 5 assists a game while in Jackson's triangle.

Melo is just a bad fit for any structured offense, period. He needs the ball in his hands, he can't play the game away the ball like the great ones can.

Even Melo's finest career moment in Syracuse, guess how many assists he had in the Championship game....One.

Well we all know that a high assist total is more important than winning a Championship..If Phil feels that way, he should talk Melo into a trade...

That's the whole point really. Bad fit, no hard feelings. Jackson will probably have a heart to heart midway through this season to see if it's best to trade by the deadline or wait until after the season.

Bad fit?..Do you not think Phil knew who Melo was when he gave him 124 mil??..Who do you think got it wrong, you or Phil??

Melo is still a worthwhile trade chip to have. Especially with the exploding cap, teams with cap space and assets would not balk to make the transaction.

The triangle and Phil won't last a year without Melo..Dolan won't stand for 3 years of sub 30 win teams...And Phil know that..

Knixkik
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8/3/2015  10:59 AM
nixluva wrote:
callmened wrote:
nixluva wrote:IMO I think you still want some vets to bridge the gap so that you have a properly functioning team. Losing environments are really the best for developing young players. If the Knicks have a team that can function at a respectable level that will help KP, Jerian etc to properly develop over the next couple of years."

"Losing environments are really the best for developing young players." thats the only part i dont agree with. i think players (like melo did_ learn bad habits because they just keep forcing up bad shots or something else. but overall i agree with your sentiment. melo is simply a bridge to the future. hes here to make sure we win 35 games and of course sell out the garden. the other vets are here to make the team somewhat competitive and take pressure off the youngins.


That was supposed to be "Losing Environments AREN'T really the best for developing young players." Damn spell check got me.

This is exactly right. We might as well try to be as good as we can be while Porzingis develops. If you trade Melo, you are already stuck without a first round pick and no one to score the ball. It puts too much pressure on Porzingis too early. Trading Melo would not be good for the development of Porzingis. He needs to be in a role first before he is asked to be a star.

knicks1248
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8/3/2015  10:59 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
blkexec wrote:i dont mind being the only one that believes Melo will be a different player under Phil and his triangle system. He has the jordan brand and bff with kobe. If he signed here because of phil then he believes he will win a chip in nyc. He has too much pride anf nyc connections to quit. So when you have a motivated star willing to prove haters wrong, that usually results into team success. Melo today is not the same melo of yesterday. ......
And for the record im not a melo fan. But i believe everybody has the opportunity to change. This is the best time for melo to prove everybody wrong.


Under what conditions will Melo change?

Conditions in which I've seen, across all professional sports, and general modern sports history, where players have RADICALLY changed their mindset, approach, preparation and attitude

1) When they are dead broke and need that next contract to keep afloat and they realize their marketability has waned to close to nothing. This happened to Vince Carter. He reinvented himself, late career, in Dallas, under Rick Carlisle into a functional role player who played more team ball and more efficiently. But the critical factor was he wanted to keep playing to make money

2) When the player is on the roster fringe and their playing opportunities dry up. This happened to Allen Iverson. Who wanted to be a starter, refused to accept he was no longer an NBA starter, didn't want to humble himself by going to the D League, rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, when he finally recanted and said he'd play any role any team wanted, every NBA team decided a sub 6 foot malcontent alcoholic that was no longer protected by Stern's refs because he no longer sold enough shoes and merchandise, just wasn't worth the roster spot, headache and minimum contract.

What incentive does Melo have to change? He's gotten nearly everything he wanted out of NY and the Knicks kowtowed to his demands. Want Lin gone? Fine. Want Chandler gone? Fine. Want to infuse your CAA buddies to keep Leon Rose happy? Fine. Want Pringles clipped? Fine. Want to lock in that deal before the labor agreement changes? Fine. Want that big extension? Fine.

The Knicks have given Melo pretty much everything he wanted and the team got worse and worse and the mother ****er still doesn't play defense.


What is with this "haters" bull****.

IF YOU DON'T PLAY DEFENSE BECAUSE YOU JUST DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK AND YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE THE ALPHA DOG ON YOUR TEAM, AND YOU GET CRITICIZED FOR IT, THAT'S NOT "HATE" THE END RESULT IS YOU ARE JUST ANOTHER STUPID MOTHER FUCKER WHO REFUSES TO PLAY DEFENSE AND HELPS YOUR TEAM LOSE INSTEAD OF WIN.

Yes, it's "hate" why Melo can't ****ing play defense. Do you really want to push that happy horse **** some more?

Every time Melo fails to do the BARE MINIMUM EXPECTED OF A PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL PLAYER, he is an insult to every loyal Knicks fan out there. Every time he showed up in non elite condition. Every time he simply didn't care and didn't try on defense. Every time he said something team killing in the press. Every team mate and coach he drove off the roster even if they could help the team win.

It's an insult.

Dude, where is the "hate" when most of his biggest critics here just want him to shut up, show up in elite condition, play defense and actually take the responsibility of being a leader, in the locker room and as an example.

Where is your mother ****ing dignity?

It is undignified to have ANY PLAYER shirk the bare minimum required to do his job the right way and put on that Knicks jersey.

Something you Melo ball lickers don't quite get here. Melo's biggest critics here would CRITICIZE ANY PLAYER WHO WORE THAT KNICKS JERSEY AND DIDN'T PLAY THE GAME THE RIGHT WAY.

What Melo does ( and more to point, what he does not do) and fails to provide the bare minimum expected of a professional is an insult to what "Knicks basketball" should be.

Anyone here who accepts ANY KNICK PLAYER who gives anything less that pure excellence, that's just a disgrace. I'm not talking about scoring championships, I'm not talking about ALL STAR berths, I'm not talking about rings. I'm talking about playing the game the right way, giving unto the greater good of the team, sacrificing because winning come before all.


http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0012971/quotes


Coach Gary Gaines: Being perfect is not about that scoreboard out there. It's not about winning. It's about you and your relationship with yourself, your family and your friends. Being perfect is about being able to look your friends in the eye and know that you didnt let them down because you told them the truth. And that truth is you did everything you could. There wasnt one more thing you could've done. Can you live in that moment as best you can, with clear eyes, and love in your heart, with joy in your heart? If you can do that gentleman - you're perfect

you hire a scorer and you get piss cause he doesn't defend like he scores, you get piss because he's not a leader. It's like giving mutumbo $110 million contract (which he got) just cause he can block shots and rebound, but has next to no offense at all.

melo fills his role he was hired for, it's the fans that expect more

ES
TPercy
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8/3/2015  11:00 AM
holfresh wrote:You guys are all dreaming..The triangle needs Melo more than Melo needs the triangle...Show me the Phil Jackson team that ran the triangle that didn't have a gunner or a guy running ISO inside of 5 mins of the 4th quarter..This guy is Porzingis??..Don't make me laugh..Phil Jackson won't survive a year outside Melo's departure...If Melo ask for a trade, you are looking at sub 30 win seasons for the next few years..This will seal the fact the Phil's tenure was a failure..

We are already looking at a sub 30 win team. This team will be lucky to even win 34 games with the team we have if melo keeps on playing the way he is playing. Melo is nowhere near the level of Jordan or Kobe. Do you really think melo not playing team basketball or defense is going to lead us to a fifty win team with any squad we have? Either way we are screwd. If we trade melo we are looking at getting multiple picks back and or players that will and/or players decent players that will at least make the effort. If we trade melo and get a reasonable package back it up ill do far from making Phil a faluire.

The Future is Bright!
blkexec
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8/3/2015  11:09 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/3/2015  11:14 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:
holfresh wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
holfresh wrote:You guys are all dreaming..The triangle needs Melo more than Melo needs the triangle...Show me the Phil Jackson team that ran the triangle that didn't have a gunner or a guy running ISO inside of 5 mins of the 4th quarter..This guy is Porzingis??..Don't make me laugh..Phil Jackson won't survive a year outside Melo's departure...If Melo ask for a trade, you are looking at sub 30 win seasons for the next few years..This will seal the fact the Phil's tenure was a failure..

Michael Jordan averaged 8 Assists a game the season before Phil Jackson took over, so he was already a good fit for the triangle. Kobe Bryant averaged 5 assists a game while in Jackson's triangle.

Melo is just a bad fit for any structured offense, period. He needs the ball in his hands, he can't play the game away the ball like the great ones can.

Even Melo's finest career moment in Syracuse, guess how many assists he had in the Championship game....One.

Well we all know that a high assist total is more important than winning a Championship..If Phil feels that way, he should talk Melo into a trade...

That's the whole point really. Bad fit, no hard feelings. Jackson will probably have a heart to heart midway through this season to see if it's best to trade by the deadline or wait until after the season.

If Melo has been a gunner his entire career....and if he's such a bad fit for the triangle, why in the hell did Phil give him a max contract? Maybe because Melo is willing to start a new chapter. He's already won the scoring title. There's no more ISO trophies to get. So scoring all the points and not passing isn't a goal anymore. Melo signed to win a championship. Phil gave him a contract to have Melo be the focal point of this championship. If Phil needs Melo to pass the ball, Melo will pass the ball. This isn't the old Melo that just won a championship in college. This is a current Melo hungry to win and don't know how. Enter the Phil Jackson era as the start to a new Melo. If it doesn't work, Melo will ask for a trade. It's a win....win! Don't understand how (some) people can't see that.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
holfresh
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8/3/2015  11:11 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/3/2015  11:12 AM
TPercy wrote:
holfresh wrote:You guys are all dreaming..The triangle needs Melo more than Melo needs the triangle...Show me the Phil Jackson team that ran the triangle that didn't have a gunner or a guy running ISO inside of 5 mins of the 4th quarter..This guy is Porzingis??..Don't make me laugh..Phil Jackson won't survive a year outside Melo's departure...If Melo ask for a trade, you are looking at sub 30 win seasons for the next few years..This will seal the fact the Phil's tenure was a failure..

We are already looking at a sub 30 win team. This team will be lucky to even win 34 games with the team we have if melo keeps on playing the way he is playing. Melo is nowhere near the level of Jordan or Kobe. Do you really think melo not playing team basketball or defense is going to lead us to a fifty win team with any squad we have? Either way we are screwd. If we trade melo we are looking at getting multiple picks back and or players that will and/or players decent players that will at least make the effort. If we trade melo and get a reasonable package back it up ill do far from making Phil a faluire.

Melo has led 8 teams that have won 50+ games and one thats been to the WCF...

CrushAlot
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8/3/2015  11:12 AM
TPercy wrote:
holfresh wrote:You guys are all dreaming..The triangle needs Melo more than Melo needs the triangle...Show me the Phil Jackson team that ran the triangle that didn't have a gunner or a guy running ISO inside of 5 mins of the 4th quarter..This guy is Porzingis??..Don't make me laugh..Phil Jackson won't survive a year outside Melo's departure...If Melo ask for a trade, you are looking at sub 30 win seasons for the next few years..This will seal the fact the Phil's tenure was a failure..

We are already looking at a sub 30 win team. This team will be lucky to even win 34 games with the team we have if melo keeps on playing the way he is playing. Melo is nowhere near the level of Jordan or Kobe. Do you really think melo not playing team basketball or defense is going to lead us to a fifty win team with any squad we have? Either way we are screwd. If we trade melo we are looking at getting multiple picks back and or players that will and/or players decent players that will at least make the effort. If we trade melo and get a reasonable package back it up ill do far from making Phil a faluire.

A healthy Melo can get a team 35-40 wins playing with a cobbled together roster (see 13-14) filled with knuckleheads, no talents, injury ravaged guys and bad apples. Not sure why the expectations should be so low going forward this year. The Knicks aren't hoping that Thanasis pops anymore or some other late second round pick turns into a star.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
TPercy
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8/3/2015  11:17 AM
holfresh wrote:
TPercy wrote:
holfresh wrote:You guys are all dreaming..The triangle needs Melo more than Melo needs the triangle...Show me the Phil Jackson team that ran the triangle that didn't have a gunner or a guy running ISO inside of 5 mins of the 4th quarter..This guy is Porzingis??..Don't make me laugh..Phil Jackson won't survive a year outside Melo's departure...If Melo ask for a trade, you are looking at sub 30 win seasons for the next few years..This will seal the fact the Phil's tenure was a failure..

We are already looking at a sub 30 win team. This team will be lucky to even win 34 games with the team we have if melo keeps on playing the way he is playing. Melo is nowhere near the level of Jordan or Kobe. Do you really think melo not playing team basketball or defense is going to lead us to a fifty win team with any squad we have? Either way we are screwd. If we trade melo we are looking at getting multiple picks back and or players that will and/or players decent players that will at least make the effort. If we trade melo and get a reasonable package back it up ill do far from making Phil a faluire.

Melo has led 8 teams that have won 50+ games and one thats been to the WCF...

So what. The triangle emphasizes team and high IQ play. Does melo possess any of that? No. Simple.

The Future is Bright!
ChuckBuck
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8/3/2015  11:19 AM
blkexec wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
holfresh wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
holfresh wrote:You guys are all dreaming..The triangle needs Melo more than Melo needs the triangle...Show me the Phil Jackson team that ran the triangle that didn't have a gunner or a guy running ISO inside of 5 mins of the 4th quarter..This guy is Porzingis??..Don't make me laugh..Phil Jackson won't survive a year outside Melo's departure...If Melo ask for a trade, you are looking at sub 30 win seasons for the next few years..This will seal the fact the Phil's tenure was a failure..

Michael Jordan averaged 8 Assists a game the season before Phil Jackson took over, so he was already a good fit for the triangle. Kobe Bryant averaged 5 assists a game while in Jackson's triangle.

Melo is just a bad fit for any structured offense, period. He needs the ball in his hands, he can't play the game away the ball like the great ones can.

Even Melo's finest career moment in Syracuse, guess how many assists he had in the Championship game....One.

Well we all know that a high assist total is more important than winning a Championship..If Phil feels that way, he should talk Melo into a trade...

That's the whole point really. Bad fit, no hard feelings. Jackson will probably have a heart to heart midway through this season to see if it's best to trade by the deadline or wait until after the season.

If Melo has been a gunner his entire career....and if he's such a bad fit for the triangle, why in the hell did Phil give him a max contract? Maybe because Melo is willing to start a new chapter. He's already won the scoring title. There's no more ISO trophies to get. So scoring all the points and not passing isn't a goal anymore. Melo signed to win a championship. Phil gave him a contract to have Melo be the focal point of this championship. If Phil needs Melo to pass the ball, Melo will pass the ball. This isn't the old Melo that just won a championship in college. This is a current Melo hungry to win and don't know how. Enter the Phil Jackson era as the start to a new Melo. If it doesn't work, Melo will ask for a trade. It's a win....win! Don't understand how (some) people can't see that.

Why did Phil give him a max? Because you don't let talent walk for nothing, no matter how one dimensional said talent is.

Melo is an asset in the grand scheme of things, a very tradeable one if he's healthy, with the cap going to 100 mill next season.

It's called foresight. Getting picks and good role players for Melo would've been worth the signing. See the logic and forward thinking now?

holfresh
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8/3/2015  11:21 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/3/2015  11:22 AM
TPercy wrote:
holfresh wrote:
TPercy wrote:
holfresh wrote:You guys are all dreaming..The triangle needs Melo more than Melo needs the triangle...Show me the Phil Jackson team that ran the triangle that didn't have a gunner or a guy running ISO inside of 5 mins of the 4th quarter..This guy is Porzingis??..Don't make me laugh..Phil Jackson won't survive a year outside Melo's departure...If Melo ask for a trade, you are looking at sub 30 win seasons for the next few years..This will seal the fact the Phil's tenure was a failure..

We are already looking at a sub 30 win team. This team will be lucky to even win 34 games with the team we have if melo keeps on playing the way he is playing. Melo is nowhere near the level of Jordan or Kobe. Do you really think melo not playing team basketball or defense is going to lead us to a fifty win team with any squad we have? Either way we are screwd. If we trade melo we are looking at getting multiple picks back and or players that will and/or players decent players that will at least make the effort. If we trade melo and get a reasonable package back it up ill do far from making Phil a faluire.

Melo has led 8 teams that have won 50+ games and one thats been to the WCF...

So what. The triangle emphasizes team and high IQ play. Does melo possess any of that? No. Simple.

You just asked if Melo can lead a 50 win team and I answered...If Phil didn't think Melo could play that role he wouldn't resign him..The triangle needs Melo more than Melo needs the triangle..

mreinman
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8/3/2015  11:22 AM
holfresh wrote:
TPercy wrote:
holfresh wrote:
TPercy wrote:
holfresh wrote:You guys are all dreaming..The triangle needs Melo more than Melo needs the triangle...Show me the Phil Jackson team that ran the triangle that didn't have a gunner or a guy running ISO inside of 5 mins of the 4th quarter..This guy is Porzingis??..Don't make me laugh..Phil Jackson won't survive a year outside Melo's departure...If Melo ask for a trade, you are looking at sub 30 win seasons for the next few years..This will seal the fact the Phil's tenure was a failure..

We are already looking at a sub 30 win team. This team will be lucky to even win 34 games with the team we have if melo keeps on playing the way he is playing. Melo is nowhere near the level of Jordan or Kobe. Do you really think melo not playing team basketball or defense is going to lead us to a fifty win team with any squad we have? Either way we are screwd. If we trade melo we are looking at getting multiple picks back and or players that will and/or players decent players that will at least make the effort. If we trade melo and get a reasonable package back it up ill do far from making Phil a faluire.

Melo has led 8 teams that have won 50+ games and one thats been to the WCF...

So what. The triangle emphasizes team and high IQ play. Does melo possess any of that? No. Simple.

You just asked if Melo can lead a 50 win team and I answered...

Many feel that Kidd led team54.

Kidd also is credited with its demise.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
ChuckBuck
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8/3/2015  11:28 AM
Correct mreinman. 54 Win Mirage season more attributed to Kidd, Wallace, Kurt Thomas, KMart etc. Veteran laden roster that would provide leadership to hide Melo's lack of.

Most of Melo's career he's never led teams, he was surrounded by men like Billups, Anthony Carter, KMart, Kidd, Kurt Thomas that did the lockerroom pep talks and were coaches on the floor.

holfresh
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8/3/2015  11:29 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/3/2015  11:31 AM
mreinman wrote:
holfresh wrote:
TPercy wrote:
holfresh wrote:
TPercy wrote:
holfresh wrote:You guys are all dreaming..The triangle needs Melo more than Melo needs the triangle...Show me the Phil Jackson team that ran the triangle that didn't have a gunner or a guy running ISO inside of 5 mins of the 4th quarter..This guy is Porzingis??..Don't make me laugh..Phil Jackson won't survive a year outside Melo's departure...If Melo ask for a trade, you are looking at sub 30 win seasons for the next few years..This will seal the fact the Phil's tenure was a failure..

We are already looking at a sub 30 win team. This team will be lucky to even win 34 games with the team we have if melo keeps on playing the way he is playing. Melo is nowhere near the level of Jordan or Kobe. Do you really think melo not playing team basketball or defense is going to lead us to a fifty win team with any squad we have? Either way we are screwd. If we trade melo we are looking at getting multiple picks back and or players that will and/or players decent players that will at least make the effort. If we trade melo and get a reasonable package back it up ill do far from making Phil a faluire.

Melo has led 8 teams that have won 50+ games and one thats been to the WCF...

So what. The triangle emphasizes team and high IQ play. Does melo possess any of that? No. Simple.

You just asked if Melo can lead a 50 win team and I answered...

Many feel that Kidd led team54.

Kidd also is credited with its demise.

So why didn't Phil give Kidd 124 mil??..Guys seriously, let's try to be adults and talk about things that are true and relavent..Stop wasting people's valuable time..

ChuckBuck
Posts: 28851
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Joined: 1/3/2012
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USA
8/3/2015  11:33 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/3/2015  11:33 AM
holfresh wrote:
mreinman wrote:
holfresh wrote:
TPercy wrote:
holfresh wrote:
TPercy wrote:
holfresh wrote:You guys are all dreaming..The triangle needs Melo more than Melo needs the triangle...Show me the Phil Jackson team that ran the triangle that didn't have a gunner or a guy running ISO inside of 5 mins of the 4th quarter..This guy is Porzingis??..Don't make me laugh..Phil Jackson won't survive a year outside Melo's departure...If Melo ask for a trade, you are looking at sub 30 win seasons for the next few years..This will seal the fact the Phil's tenure was a failure..

We are already looking at a sub 30 win team. This team will be lucky to even win 34 games with the team we have if melo keeps on playing the way he is playing. Melo is nowhere near the level of Jordan or Kobe. Do you really think melo not playing team basketball or defense is going to lead us to a fifty win team with any squad we have? Either way we are screwd. If we trade melo we are looking at getting multiple picks back and or players that will and/or players decent players that will at least make the effort. If we trade melo and get a reasonable package back it up ill do far from making Phil a faluire.

Melo has led 8 teams that have won 50+ games and one thats been to the WCF...

So what. The triangle emphasizes team and high IQ play. Does melo possess any of that? No. Simple.

You just asked if Melo can lead a 50 win team and I answered...

Many feel that Kidd led team54.

Kidd also is credited with its demise.

So why didn't Phil give Kidd 124 mil??..Guys seriously, let's try to be adults and talk about things that are true and relavent..

Same reason San An gave Aldridge $80 mill or LA gave Deandre $80 mill. They're assets entering the prime of their career.

What you make is not correlated to your leadership quality. If that was the case Shawn Kemp, Antoine Walker, and Vin Baker would've comprised the whole senate.

Not a good argument.

mreinman
Posts: 37827
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Member: #3189

8/3/2015  11:43 AM
holfresh wrote:
mreinman wrote:
holfresh wrote:
TPercy wrote:
holfresh wrote:
TPercy wrote:
holfresh wrote:You guys are all dreaming..The triangle needs Melo more than Melo needs the triangle...Show me the Phil Jackson team that ran the triangle that didn't have a gunner or a guy running ISO inside of 5 mins of the 4th quarter..This guy is Porzingis??..Don't make me laugh..Phil Jackson won't survive a year outside Melo's departure...If Melo ask for a trade, you are looking at sub 30 win seasons for the next few years..This will seal the fact the Phil's tenure was a failure..

We are already looking at a sub 30 win team. This team will be lucky to even win 34 games with the team we have if melo keeps on playing the way he is playing. Melo is nowhere near the level of Jordan or Kobe. Do you really think melo not playing team basketball or defense is going to lead us to a fifty win team with any squad we have? Either way we are screwd. If we trade melo we are looking at getting multiple picks back and or players that will and/or players decent players that will at least make the effort. If we trade melo and get a reasonable package back it up ill do far from making Phil a faluire.

Melo has led 8 teams that have won 50+ games and one thats been to the WCF...

So what. The triangle emphasizes team and high IQ play. Does melo possess any of that? No. Simple.

You just asked if Melo can lead a 50 win team and I answered...

Many feel that Kidd led team54.

Kidd also is credited with its demise.

So why didn't Phil give Kidd 124 mil??..Guys seriously, let's try to be adults and talk about things that are true and relavent..Stop wasting people's valuable time..

making a stupid comment does not help your argument.

and ... your argument is really really silly.

please don't waste all of our time with your stupidity.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
TPercy
Posts: 28010
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/5/2014
Member: #5748

8/3/2015  11:45 AM
holfresh wrote:
TPercy wrote:
holfresh wrote:
TPercy wrote:
holfresh wrote:You guys are all dreaming..The triangle needs Melo more than Melo needs the triangle...Show me the Phil Jackson team that ran the triangle that didn't have a gunner or a guy running ISO inside of 5 mins of the 4th quarter..This guy is Porzingis??..Don't make me laugh..Phil Jackson won't survive a year outside Melo's departure...If Melo ask for a trade, you are looking at sub 30 win seasons for the next few years..This will seal the fact the Phil's tenure was a failure..

We are already looking at a sub 30 win team. This team will be lucky to even win 34 games with the team we have if melo keeps on playing the way he is playing. Melo is nowhere near the level of Jordan or Kobe. Do you really think melo not playing team basketball or defense is going to lead us to a fifty win team with any squad we have? Either way we are screwd. If we trade melo we are looking at getting multiple picks back and or players that will and/or players decent players that will at least make the effort. If we trade melo and get a reasonable package back it up ill do far from making Phil a faluire.

Melo has led 8 teams that have won 50+ games and one thats been to the WCF...

So what. The triangle emphasizes team and high IQ play. Does melo possess any of that? No. Simple.

You just asked if Melo can lead a 50 win team and I answered...If Phil didn't think Melo could play that role he wouldn't resign him..The triangle needs Melo more than Melo needs the triangle..

Why did Phil give him a max? Because you don't let talent walk for nothing, no matter how one dimensional said talent is.
Melo is an asset in the grand scheme of things, a very tradeable one if he's healthy, with the cap going to 100 mill next season.
It's called foresight. Getting picks and good role players for Melo would've been worth the signing. See the logic and forward thinking now?
The Future is Bright!
Most of these signings moves really have very little tod with the future of the knicks

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