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Congrats to Melo top 25 player on Team USA history
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CrushAlot
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USA
8/2/2015  12:48 AM
WaltLongmire wrote:
Papabear wrote:
Papabear Says

He sounds Like the 7th. The profile is the same right down to the vocabulary . Did I spell it right?


Some of this stuff is pretty bizarre.


Sorry Mr. Bear...I am not now, nor have I ever been, "the 7th."


Quite hurt about your vocabulary comparison...no insult implied to "the 7th," of course.

Funny- I look through RealGM now and then, and there are always cultish group of fanboys who go to the extreme to defend their chosen ones. This is true no matter what team forum you go to. There are some on this forum, but it is not as bad.


Anthony is a frustrating player to root for, unfortunately. In some ways seems much more interested in being a personality or celebrity than a player- and perhaps this will be more evident as his skills decline.

I think Carmelo's insistence on being in the All-Star Game was a turning point for Phil Jackson, who had just overpaid for his services at the contract table.

I'm not sure I'm incorrect in saying that we are in the midst of an organizational "struggle" for the soul of the team, pitting Jackson and Fisher against Melo, and possibly, Dolan. I'm not going to recap everything he's said, but the truth is evident if you read everything Jackson has said, starting from the time before the draft.

Phil has seemingly gained the upper hand by trading away Melo's posse, adding the kind of FA players Anthony might not have wanted, and drafting KP over Melo's protege, Winslow.

Should be interesting to see how Anthony responds in training camp and on the court. Hopefully he got the message Phil sent him and rises to the occasion.

Melo's posse? He and Hardaway weren't that close. They were just the last two left from the previous regime. Shumpert being a part of Melo's posse seems to fluctuate with agendas. When Bad Melo hesitates to pass to a guy that shoots under 40% and is reluctant to shoot the open shot Melo is a villain and not making Shumpert better. Melo and JR have played together for years but JR's presence on the Knicks was because Of their horrible cap situation. The Knicks paid 4 guys superstar money but they only had one guy that was decent. Not sure why that guy is seen as a villain or someone holding the team back.

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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RedmenBaller
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8/2/2015  12:01 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
RedmenBaller wrote:
Hmmm. Guess moderator thought I was too harsh on you or you whined to them.
You claim to go after only the pompous, selfish and those who seem less
than genuine. Which I am sure you determine through sound criteria such as rumors, third person
articles from second rate sports writers trying to make a buck or
just personal opinion of someone. Same thing bigets and haters
always claim. Your full of crud.

Just don't belive you. Haters are all just jealous and unaccomplished.
And btw. Don't believe a guy who is constantly on boards trying to create
a brand for 18 people to recognize. We both know your night is dictated
by the self diagnosed success of your posts.

As for Melo, If you know anything about being part of a team you would know
you don't put down a team mate. As a fan I take the same approach
as a participant of organized sports. If someone is wearing the
same jersey as you then you support them.


I'm totally mystified about where you come up with some of this stuff- you've seemingly made me into some kind of forum bogey man.


Haters are all just jealous and unaccomplished. ??? Took early retirement a year or two ago. All in all, I was pretty successful at what I did in my profession and as a coach, and when younger, as an athlete, although, of course, there were many more accomplished that I was.

You seem to have an issue with people who are overly critical of Anthony. Instead of general criticisms and ad hominem attacks, you should stick to attacking the specific comments of those who feel he is overrated, overhyped, selfish, and perhaps a bit pretentious in how he presents himself to the public.

The word "fan" is derived from the word fanatic- something I am not. I support the players on my team, but if they are worthy of criticism I see no problem calling them out on a forum. I'm critical of anyone, including myself- don't see what the big deal is.

Supporting someone does not mean uncritical acceptance of anything they do. I would think that wanting them to change or look at their behavior would also constitute "support."


Please don't lecture about being on a team...I can pretty much match or exceed most in this area as both a participant at all levels of scholastic competition (9 years...multiple sports) and as a coach of 25+ years at the HS level. Father was an All-American athlete at Auburn and also a coach...I've been around sports in one way or another for over 50 years.


Not sure that Anthony is worth the verbal vitriol you are spitting out. Try to take things less personally. Attack the argument...not the guy making the argument, especially when you seem to have no idea at all who that guy really is.

Walt, now it all make sense. Like you I played organized sports my whole life. Unlike you, it did not stop at the high school level. Was surrounded by talented athletes that worked extremely hard to make it to the professional level only be pitted with criticism from far less accomplished than them. Perhaps your disdain for athletes of such a high level, like Melo, comes from the inability to understand why them and not you. And the inability to comprehend the ridiculous amounts of money they are making in todays sports business. However, I respect the fact you coached young players and hopefully helped them move on to higher level. Hopefully your display on forums which shows you as a retired guy who is bitter and who is spending way too much of his retirement on forums just to hate on the best player on his favorite team, is not who your really are. As that would make you what I claimed, a bitter fanatic. Maybe with a bit more time on here, which I doubt as I like these things for free agent rumors only, will change my mind. Although, strange you would come with this articulate approach and call for me to keep conversation to basketball skills and deficiencies while you constantly attack a player personally without having any first hand knowledge of him. Something your surely did not teach at high school level. Weird that you seem to be the first to attack any unrelated personal aspect you see fit. And use words such as his "Posse" but lets try to pretend like you rather talk ball.

Who would you rather have on the team? That is attainable. Do you not agree that Melo is a top tier offensive player? As a coach, you know that there is much more benefit of a scorer than meets the eye. His ability to attract double teams creates for others. The desire to take a pressure shot. The opportunity of others on the team, that have not been focused on by opposing teams game plans, to excel. While true that an offensive scorer is not all that is needed to succeed, it is important to have one to be successful. Who do you think we have surrounded him with to account for the need to rebound, hit open shots at high percentage after double teams and create off the dribble consistently at a NBA championship level? The thing I keep seeing is that many agree it is a team sport but then turn around and expect him to do everything. Please point out who else performed during the Knicks-Pacers conference final? Please pull up the stats for game 6. The game you probably have used to put him down due to the great play by Hibbert. Pull up the stats of his team mates we have surrounded him with since he has been here.

WaltLongmire
Posts: 27623
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8/2/2015  12:20 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Papabear wrote:
Papabear Says

He sounds Like the 7th. The profile is the same right down to the vocabulary . Did I spell it right?


Some of this stuff is pretty bizarre.


Sorry Mr. Bear...I am not now, nor have I ever been, "the 7th."


Quite hurt about your vocabulary comparison...no insult implied to "the 7th," of course.

Funny- I look through RealGM now and then, and there are always cultish group of fanboys who go to the extreme to defend their chosen ones. This is true no matter what team forum you go to. There are some on this forum, but it is not as bad.


Anthony is a frustrating player to root for, unfortunately. In some ways seems much more interested in being a personality or celebrity than a player- and perhaps this will be more evident as his skills decline.

I think Carmelo's insistence on being in the All-Star Game was a turning point for Phil Jackson, who had just overpaid for his services at the contract table.

I'm not sure I'm incorrect in saying that we are in the midst of an organizational "struggle" for the soul of the team, pitting Jackson and Fisher against Melo, and possibly, Dolan. I'm not going to recap everything he's said, but the truth is evident if you read everything Jackson has said, starting from the time before the draft.

Phil has seemingly gained the upper hand by trading away Melo's posse, adding the kind of FA players Anthony might not have wanted, and drafting KP over Melo's protege, Winslow.

Should be interesting to see how Anthony responds in training camp and on the court. Hopefully he got the message Phil sent him and rises to the occasion.

Melo's posse? He and Hardaway weren't that close. They were just the last two left from the previous regime. Shumpert being a part of Melo's posse seems to fluctuate with agendas. When Bad Melo hesitates to pass to a guy that shoots under 40% and is reluctant to shoot the open shot Melo is a villain and not making Shumpert better. Melo and JR have played together for years but JR's presence on the Knicks was because Of their horrible cap situation. The Knicks paid 4 guys superstar money but they only had one guy that was decent. Not sure why that guy is seen as a villain or someone holding the team back.


Perhaps I'm being to strong in talking about a "posse," but Hardaway and Anthony obviously came to an understanding at some point- I think he still has the photo of him and THJ on his Twitter account, and the mentor/protege thing was mentioned. I think Hahn and some others talked about the 4 of them as a group. Might simply have been because of the roster turnover, or because they were willing to take Melo's cue in terms of how they played. Does seem interesting that Phil has now traded away the last remnants of the team that reached Rnd 2 a few years ago...except for Anthony.

Read and look at everything that has gone on since the time before the draft- the Rosen articles are also useful to understand things.

When you read the Rosen articles you also realize that Phil was concerned about certain players undermining Fisher's authority as a coach- it sounded like there was no veteran player leadership in that locker room keeping players in line. You can reach your own conclusions from this.

Maybe I'm wrong...would not the first time, but my sense is that Phil has decided that this year is a make or break one for Anthony, and that if things don't work out, he will do everything he can to work out a trade to a team of Anthony's choosing.

One way or another there will be a change this year...just don't know what the change will be like. Once again...I hope Anthony buys into what Phil and Fisher are trying to do. We will see.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
holfresh
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Member: #1081

8/2/2015  12:42 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/2/2015  12:52 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
Papabear wrote:
Papabear Says

He sounds Like the 7th. The profile is the same right down to the vocabulary . Did I spell it right?


Some of this stuff is pretty bizarre.


Sorry Mr. Bear...I am not now, nor have I ever been, "the 7th."


Quite hurt about your vocabulary comparison...no insult implied to "the 7th," of course.

Funny- I look through RealGM now and then, and there are always cultish group of fanboys who go to the extreme to defend their chosen ones. This is true no matter what team forum you go to. There are some on this forum, but it is not as bad.

Anthony is a frustrating player to root for, unfortunately. In some ways seems much more interested in being a personality or celebrity than a player- and perhaps this will be more evident as his skills decline.

I think Carmelo's insistence on being in the All-Star Game was a turning point for Phil Jackson, who had just overpaid for his services at the contract table.

I'm not sure I'm incorrect in saying that we are in the midst of an organizational "struggle" for the soul of the team, pitting Jackson and Fisher against Melo, and possibly, Dolan. I'm not going to recap everything he's said, but the truth is evident if you read everything Jackson has said, starting from the time before the draft.

Phil has seemingly gained the upper hand by trading away Melo's posse, adding the kind of FA players Anthony might not have wanted, and drafting KP over Melo's protege, Winslow.

Should be interesting to see how Anthony responds in training camp and on the court. Hopefully he got the message Phil sent him and rises to the occasion.

As there are those cultish groups who try to lay everything that occurs surrounding the Knicks at Melo's feet..Like Winslow declaring his brand will do well in NY or big name free agents not signing on with the Knicks...

And in the second highlighted sentence, is it the case that you have no evidence of this claim of Melo wanting to be a celebrity more than a player so you have to wait until he stops putting up the good numbers or stop playing well for you to better assess this proclamation...Because right now, his play outshines the celebrity claim...

Have it ever occurred to you that Melo played in the all star games because contractually, it means more to him financially with regards to his endorsements. i.e. his shoe contract??..Or maybe you feel that should not matter???

holfresh
Posts: 38679
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Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

8/2/2015  12:48 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Papabear wrote:
Papabear Says

He sounds Like the 7th. The profile is the same right down to the vocabulary . Did I spell it right?


Some of this stuff is pretty bizarre.


Sorry Mr. Bear...I am not now, nor have I ever been, "the 7th."


Quite hurt about your vocabulary comparison...no insult implied to "the 7th," of course.

Funny- I look through RealGM now and then, and there are always cultish group of fanboys who go to the extreme to defend their chosen ones. This is true no matter what team forum you go to. There are some on this forum, but it is not as bad.


Anthony is a frustrating player to root for, unfortunately. In some ways seems much more interested in being a personality or celebrity than a player- and perhaps this will be more evident as his skills decline.

I think Carmelo's insistence on being in the All-Star Game was a turning point for Phil Jackson, who had just overpaid for his services at the contract table.

I'm not sure I'm incorrect in saying that we are in the midst of an organizational "struggle" for the soul of the team, pitting Jackson and Fisher against Melo, and possibly, Dolan. I'm not going to recap everything he's said, but the truth is evident if you read everything Jackson has said, starting from the time before the draft.

Phil has seemingly gained the upper hand by trading away Melo's posse, adding the kind of FA players Anthony might not have wanted, and drafting KP over Melo's protege, Winslow.

Should be interesting to see how Anthony responds in training camp and on the court. Hopefully he got the message Phil sent him and rises to the occasion.

Melo's posse? He and Hardaway weren't that close. They were just the last two left from the previous regime. Shumpert being a part of Melo's posse seems to fluctuate with agendas. When Bad Melo hesitates to pass to a guy that shoots under 40% and is reluctant to shoot the open shot Melo is a villain and not making Shumpert better. Melo and JR have played together for years but JR's presence on the Knicks was because Of their horrible cap situation. The Knicks paid 4 guys superstar money but they only had one guy that was decent. Not sure why that guy is seen as a villain or someone holding the team back.


Perhaps I'm being to strong in talking about a "posse," but Hardaway and Anthony obviously came to an understanding at some point- I think he still has the photo of him and THJ on his Twitter account, and the mentor/protege thing was mentioned. I think Hahn and some others talked about the 4 of them as a group. Might simply have been because of the roster turnover, or because they were willing to take Melo's cue in terms of how they played. Does seem interesting that Phil has now traded away the last remnants of the team that reached Rnd 2 a few years ago...except for Anthony.

Read and look at everything that has gone on since the time before the draft- the Rosen articles are also useful to understand things.

When you read the Rosen articles you also realize that Phil was concerned about certain players undermining Fisher's authority as a coach- it sounded like there was no veteran player leadership in that locker room keeping players in line. You can reach your own conclusions from this.

Maybe I'm wrong...would not the first time, but my sense is that Phil has decided that this year is a make or break one for Anthony, and that if things don't work out, he will do everything he can to work out a trade to a team of Anthony's choosing.

One way or another there will be a change this year...just don't know what the change will be like. Once again...I hope Anthony buys into what Phil and Fisher are trying to do. We will see.

The Rosen articles are Phil defending his moves..It's a one sided account of what transpired...It's clearly not objective..U can't be that wide-eyed, can you??

dk7th
Posts: 30006
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USA
8/2/2015  1:21 PM
RedmenBaller wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
RedmenBaller wrote:
Hmmm. Guess moderator thought I was too harsh on you or you whined to them.
You claim to go after only the pompous, selfish and those who seem less
than genuine. Which I am sure you determine through sound criteria such as rumors, third person
articles from second rate sports writers trying to make a buck or
just personal opinion of someone. Same thing bigets and haters
always claim. Your full of crud.

Just don't belive you. Haters are all just jealous and unaccomplished.
And btw. Don't believe a guy who is constantly on boards trying to create
a brand for 18 people to recognize. We both know your night is dictated
by the self diagnosed success of your posts.

As for Melo, If you know anything about being part of a team you would know
you don't put down a team mate. As a fan I take the same approach
as a participant of organized sports. If someone is wearing the
same jersey as you then you support them.


I'm totally mystified about where you come up with some of this stuff- you've seemingly made me into some kind of forum bogey man.


Haters are all just jealous and unaccomplished. ??? Took early retirement a year or two ago. All in all, I was pretty successful at what I did in my profession and as a coach, and when younger, as an athlete, although, of course, there were many more accomplished that I was.

You seem to have an issue with people who are overly critical of Anthony. Instead of general criticisms and ad hominem attacks, you should stick to attacking the specific comments of those who feel he is overrated, overhyped, selfish, and perhaps a bit pretentious in how he presents himself to the public.

The word "fan" is derived from the word fanatic- something I am not. I support the players on my team, but if they are worthy of criticism I see no problem calling them out on a forum. I'm critical of anyone, including myself- don't see what the big deal is.

Supporting someone does not mean uncritical acceptance of anything they do. I would think that wanting them to change or look at their behavior would also constitute "support."


Please don't lecture about being on a team...I can pretty much match or exceed most in this area as both a participant at all levels of scholastic competition (9 years...multiple sports) and as a coach of 25+ years at the HS level. Father was an All-American athlete at Auburn and also a coach...I've been around sports in one way or another for over 50 years.


Not sure that Anthony is worth the verbal vitriol you are spitting out. Try to take things less personally. Attack the argument...not the guy making the argument, especially when you seem to have no idea at all who that guy really is.

Walt, now it all make sense. Like you I played organized sports my whole life. Unlike you, it did not stop at the high school level. Was surrounded by talented athletes that worked extremely hard to make it to the professional level only be pitted with criticism from far less accomplished than them. Perhaps your disdain for athletes of such a high level, like Melo, comes from the inability to understand why them and not you. And the inability to comprehend the ridiculous amounts of money they are making in todays sports business. However, I respect the fact you coached young players and hopefully helped them move on to higher level. Hopefully your display on forums which shows you as a retired guy who is bitter and who is spending way too much of his retirement on forums just to hate on the best player on his favorite team, is not who your really are. As that would make you what I claimed, a bitter fanatic. Maybe with a bit more time on here, which I doubt as I like these things for free agent rumors only, will change my mind. Although, strange you would come with this articulate approach and call for me to keep conversation to basketball skills and deficiencies while you constantly attack a player personally without having any first hand knowledge of him. Something your surely did not teach at high school level. Weird that you seem to be the first to attack any unrelated personal aspect you see fit. And use words such as his "Posse" but lets try to pretend like you rather talk ball.

Who would you rather have on the team? That is attainable. Do you not agree that Melo is a top tier offensive player? As a coach, you know that there is much more benefit of a scorer than meets the eye. His ability to attract double teams creates for others. The desire to take a pressure shot. The opportunity of others on the team, that have not been focused on by opposing teams game plans, to excel. While true that an offensive scorer is not all that is needed to succeed, it is important to have one to be successful. Who do you think we have surrounded him with to account for the need to rebound, hit open shots at high percentage after double teams and create off the dribble consistently at a NBA championship level? The thing I keep seeing is that many agree it is a team sport but then turn around and expect him to do everything. Please point out who else performed during the Knicks-Pacers conference final? Please pull up the stats for game 6. The game you probably have used to put him down due to the great play by Hibbert. Pull up the stats of his team mates we have surrounded him with since he has been here.

the only thing that separates pros from non-pros is (1)their size and (2)the speed and strength they possess relative to their size. everything else, meaning basketball skills and basketball intelligence, is relatable. basketball is a game of skill and a game requiring the ability to make good decisions while working with others. there are plenty of non-nba players who have tremendous skills and tremendous basketball intelligence, and if they were taller they would be pros. what holds them back is stature. bigger/stronger/faster is the only difference, otherwise why would we bother even discussing something we could not possibly understand?

on a correlative note, you see this phenomenon played out year after year when guys who played a bigger position in college have to acquire the skills for a smaller position if they reach the nba. shooting guards in college have to adapt to playing point guards, power forwards have to learn how to play small forward, etc. etc. the number two pick michael beasley comes to mind but there are, i am certain, many many other examples of busts like him because of this inability to make the transition stemming from newly-confronted lack of stature.

as to melo, though he may draw double teams, he is not good at passing out of double teams (ewing had the same problem and he hurt the knicks because of it)-- so how in fact does he make others better if he can't make a "creative, playmaking" pass? he isn't even very good at hockey assists. if you look at his usage rate relative to his assist rate you will see selfishness and incompetence, which reflects what many people see when watching him. this is not to mention his cruddy shot selection.

as to money, it is wrong to say that fans cannot conceive of the amount of money being paid to these people-- the burden to understand the amount of money is on the player, and melo has shown he doesn't understand this amount of money. if he did he would not have asked for so much, but rather have seen the value of taking a paycut in order to help field good teams. he would just rather make as much money as possible for its own sake than win. on the other hand, when you insist on being paid that much money then yes, people will in fact expect you to do everything... or at least a whole lot more than what you have been doing.

as to the use of the word "posse" just substitute "entourage" or "circle of yes men and enablers." no need to make an issue out of the word-- the phenomenon is the same.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
WaltLongmire
Posts: 27623
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Member: #5843

8/2/2015  3:11 PM
RedmenBaller wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
RedmenBaller wrote:
Hmmm. Guess moderator thought I was too harsh on you or you whined to them.
You claim to go after only the pompous, selfish and those who seem less
than genuine. Which I am sure you determine through sound criteria such as rumors, third person
articles from second rate sports writers trying to make a buck or
just personal opinion of someone. Same thing bigets and haters
always claim. Your full of crud.

Just don't belive you. Haters are all just jealous and unaccomplished.
And btw. Don't believe a guy who is constantly on boards trying to create
a brand for 18 people to recognize. We both know your night is dictated
by the self diagnosed success of your posts.

As for Melo, If you know anything about being part of a team you would know
you don't put down a team mate. As a fan I take the same approach
as a participant of organized sports. If someone is wearing the
same jersey as you then you support them.


I'm totally mystified about where you come up with some of this stuff- you've seemingly made me into some kind of forum bogey man.


Haters are all just jealous and unaccomplished. ??? Took early retirement a year or two ago. All in all, I was pretty successful at what I did in my profession and as a coach, and when younger, as an athlete, although, of course, there were many more accomplished that I was.

You seem to have an issue with people who are overly critical of Anthony. Instead of general criticisms and ad hominem attacks, you should stick to attacking the specific comments of those who feel he is overrated, overhyped, selfish, and perhaps a bit pretentious in how he presents himself to the public.

The word "fan" is derived from the word fanatic- something I am not. I support the players on my team, but if they are worthy of criticism I see no problem calling them out on a forum. I'm critical of anyone, including myself- don't see what the big deal is.

Supporting someone does not mean uncritical acceptance of anything they do. I would think that wanting them to change or look at their behavior would also constitute "support."


Please don't lecture about being on a team...I can pretty much match or exceed most in this area as both a participant at all levels of scholastic competition (9 years...multiple sports) and as a coach of 25+ years at the HS level. Father was an All-American athlete at Auburn and also a coach...I've been around sports in one way or another for over 50 years.


Not sure that Anthony is worth the verbal vitriol you are spitting out. Try to take things less personally. Attack the argument...not the guy making the argument, especially when you seem to have no idea at all who that guy really is.

Walt, now it all make sense. Like you I played organized sports my whole life. Unlike you, it did not stop at the high school level. Was surrounded by talented athletes that worked extremely hard to make it to the professional level only be pitted with criticism from far less accomplished than them. Perhaps your disdain for athletes of such a high level, like Melo, comes from the inability to understand why them and not you. And the inability to comprehend the ridiculous amounts of money they are making in todays sports business. However, I respect the fact you coached young players and hopefully helped them move on to higher level. Hopefully your display on forums which shows you as a retired guy who is bitter and who is spending way too much of his retirement on forums just to hate on the best player on his favorite team, is not who your really are. As that would make you what I claimed, a bitter fanatic. Maybe with a bit more time on here, which I doubt as I like these things for free agent rumors only, will change my mind. Although, strange you would come with this articulate approach and call for me to keep conversation to basketball skills and deficiencies while you constantly attack a player personally without having any first hand knowledge of him. Something your surely did not teach at high school level. Weird that you seem to be the first to attack any unrelated personal aspect you see fit. And use words such as his "Posse" but lets try to pretend like you rather talk ball.

Who would you rather have on the team? That is attainable. Do you not agree that Melo is a top tier offensive player? As a coach, you know that there is much more benefit of a scorer than meets the eye. His ability to attract double teams creates for others. The desire to take a pressure shot. The opportunity of others on the team, that have not been focused on by opposing teams game plans, to excel. While true that an offensive scorer is not all that is needed to succeed, it is important to have one to be successful. Who do you think we have surrounded him with to account for the need to rebound, hit open shots at high percentage after double teams and create off the dribble consistently at a NBA championship level? The thing I keep seeing is that many agree it is a team sport but then turn around and expect him to do everything. Please point out who else performed during the Knicks-Pacers conference final? Please pull up the stats for game 6. The game you probably have used to put him down due to the great play by Hibbert. Pull up the stats of his team mates we have surrounded him with since he has been here.


Was a college athlete...3 years. 9 years meant 3 at JrHigh, 3 HS, and 3 College.

I had no pretensions of being a professional in any sport-ever. I played because I liked the competition.

I really am not bitter- you are painting a strange portrait, here. Its "off-season" for me now, and between fixing up my house I have a lot of time to do what I want to do.

I'm much more upset about what the 1% have done to the middle class in this country than I am with someone like Anthony.

Not sure why you brought up a play with Hibbert that I have never brought up and don't even remember. For the most part, we lost that series because Chandler was not great, Kidd's legs were dead, and JR was a ghost.

Anthony is a great offensive player in many ways, but a very limited player in general at this point. I'm on record saying that Phil should not have signed him for the amount he got or tried to trade him to Chicago.

The thing that upset me the most about Anthony, and it came out in the Rosen articles, is that he put his own career above that of the team which gave him all the $$ he uses to do this or that. Not shutting down his year until he played in the All-Star Exhibition is beyond my comprehension, although I expect you will find many reasons he should have continued playing on a bad knee. Phil called him out on this publicly, without actually using his name, when he talked about guys and shoe contracts before the draft.

There is also the realization that a guy with one of the biggest contracts in the league is not the kind of player who makes others around him better, and is not the kind of team leader who might have helped Fisher have better control over certain players the first half of the season.

It is not by coincidence that Smith, a friend from his Denver days, Shumpert, and Melo's "protege," THJ are not gone...hope you understand this. It is not by coincidence that Phil said he did not talk to Anthony about FAs, and took a guy Anthony did not want while trading away a guy he did want.


You look at the guys Melo vacationed with, and you realize that all of them can play hero ball when called upon, but they are also guys who can make other players better. I also seem to recall that when James was having issues with Spolestra, Wade came out in support of him. As an aside, from what I have heard (Hahn, and others), the original big 3 was supposed to be James, Wade, and Melo, but Anthony signed a long term contract that did not allow for this get together to happen. Anthony should have signed the shorter contract and taken less $$ with Miami- he would have gotten his title if he had.


Right now we are in the off-season. Most of what we talk about deals with trade talk, signings, rumors, etc.

My comment to you was:

Instead of general criticisms and ad hominem attacks, you should stick to attacking the specific comments of those who feel he is overrated, overhyped, selfish, and perhaps a bit pretentious in how he presents himself to the public.
What I was talking about is your creation of a fictitious persona for me that somewhat hilarious, to be honest.

Not much info about me on public media...nobody tweeting about my reactions to things. Athletes live in times where info is passed around instantly. A guy like Anthony also has lawyers who can take action for him if reporters are putting out lies about him- they live or die on their reputations as getting out the truth. Have not heard about any lawsuits for libel coming out of Anthony's camp, although he has done damage control at times.

He will have his chance to make me eat "humble pie" this season by playing team ball, being a leader, and making his teammates better when he is on the court with him. Hope he does this.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
WaltLongmire
Posts: 27623
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/28/2014
Member: #5843

8/2/2015  3:34 PM
holfresh wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Papabear wrote:
Papabear Says

He sounds Like the 7th. The profile is the same right down to the vocabulary . Did I spell it right?


Some of this stuff is pretty bizarre.


Sorry Mr. Bear...I am not now, nor have I ever been, "the 7th."


Quite hurt about your vocabulary comparison...no insult implied to "the 7th," of course.

Funny- I look through RealGM now and then, and there are always cultish group of fanboys who go to the extreme to defend their chosen ones. This is true no matter what team forum you go to. There are some on this forum, but it is not as bad.

Anthony is a frustrating player to root for, unfortunately. In some ways seems much more interested in being a personality or celebrity than a player- and perhaps this will be more evident as his skills decline.

I think Carmelo's insistence on being in the All-Star Game was a turning point for Phil Jackson, who had just overpaid for his services at the contract table.

I'm not sure I'm incorrect in saying that we are in the midst of an organizational "struggle" for the soul of the team, pitting Jackson and Fisher against Melo, and possibly, Dolan. I'm not going to recap everything he's said, but the truth is evident if you read everything Jackson has said, starting from the time before the draft.

Phil has seemingly gained the upper hand by trading away Melo's posse, adding the kind of FA players Anthony might not have wanted, and drafting KP over Melo's protege, Winslow.

Should be interesting to see how Anthony responds in training camp and on the court. Hopefully he got the message Phil sent him and rises to the occasion.

As there are those cultish groups who try to lay everything that occurs surrounding the Knicks at Melo's feet..Like Winslow declaring his brand will do well in NY or big name free agents not signing on with the Knicks...

And in the second highlighted sentence, is it the case that you have no evidence of this claim of Melo wanting to be a celebrity more than a player so you have to wait until he stops putting up the good numbers or stop playing well for you to better assess this proclamation...Because right now, his play outshines the celebrity claim...

Have it ever occurred to you that Melo played in the all star games because contractually, it means more to him financially with regards to his endorsements. i.e. his shoe contract??..Or maybe you feel that should not matter???


There is no doubt that much of this team's success or failure rests on Anthony, and that is what any "star" should believe.

The celebrity comment was opinion, of course, but I do see it as true- much more so in a web based digital and social media world.

I do believe that I am right about the Melo/Winslow thing, more than coincidence, but again this is a conclusion based on things read without personal knowledge.

Back to the the All-Star game.

Lets go hypothetical... If it was the case that Anthony risked further injury to his knee by continuing to play as long as he did last year so that he could be in the All-Star exhibition- would you still feel the same way about him getting his extra shoe contract money if it meant that he would not be able to play until January 2016?

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
WaltLongmire
Posts: 27623
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/28/2014
Member: #5843

8/2/2015  3:45 PM
holfresh wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Papabear wrote:
Papabear Says

He sounds Like the 7th. The profile is the same right down to the vocabulary . Did I spell it right?


Some of this stuff is pretty bizarre.


Sorry Mr. Bear...I am not now, nor have I ever been, "the 7th."


Quite hurt about your vocabulary comparison...no insult implied to "the 7th," of course.

Funny- I look through RealGM now and then, and there are always cultish group of fanboys who go to the extreme to defend their chosen ones. This is true no matter what team forum you go to. There are some on this forum, but it is not as bad.


Anthony is a frustrating player to root for, unfortunately. In some ways seems much more interested in being a personality or celebrity than a player- and perhaps this will be more evident as his skills decline.

I think Carmelo's insistence on being in the All-Star Game was a turning point for Phil Jackson, who had just overpaid for his services at the contract table.

I'm not sure I'm incorrect in saying that we are in the midst of an organizational "struggle" for the soul of the team, pitting Jackson and Fisher against Melo, and possibly, Dolan. I'm not going to recap everything he's said, but the truth is evident if you read everything Jackson has said, starting from the time before the draft.

Phil has seemingly gained the upper hand by trading away Melo's posse, adding the kind of FA players Anthony might not have wanted, and drafting KP over Melo's protege, Winslow.

Should be interesting to see how Anthony responds in training camp and on the court. Hopefully he got the message Phil sent him and rises to the occasion.

Melo's posse? He and Hardaway weren't that close. They were just the last two left from the previous regime. Shumpert being a part of Melo's posse seems to fluctuate with agendas. When Bad Melo hesitates to pass to a guy that shoots under 40% and is reluctant to shoot the open shot Melo is a villain and not making Shumpert better. Melo and JR have played together for years but JR's presence on the Knicks was because Of their horrible cap situation. The Knicks paid 4 guys superstar money but they only had one guy that was decent. Not sure why that guy is seen as a villain or someone holding the team back.


Perhaps I'm being to strong in talking about a "posse," but Hardaway and Anthony obviously came to an understanding at some point- I think he still has the photo of him and THJ on his Twitter account, and the mentor/protege thing was mentioned. I think Hahn and some others talked about the 4 of them as a group. Might simply have been because of the roster turnover, or because they were willing to take Melo's cue in terms of how they played. Does seem interesting that Phil has now traded away the last remnants of the team that reached Rnd 2 a few years ago...except for Anthony.

Read and look at everything that has gone on since the time before the draft- the Rosen articles are also useful to understand things.

When you read the Rosen articles you also realize that Phil was concerned about certain players undermining Fisher's authority as a coach- it sounded like there was no veteran player leadership in that locker room keeping players in line. You can reach your own conclusions from this.

Maybe I'm wrong...would not the first time, but my sense is that Phil has decided that this year is a make or break one for Anthony, and that if things don't work out, he will do everything he can to work out a trade to a team of Anthony's choosing.

One way or another there will be a change this year...just don't know what the change will be like. Once again...I hope Anthony buys into what Phil and Fisher are trying to do. We will see.

The Rosen articles are Phil defending his moves..It's a one sided account of what transpired...It's clearly not objective..U can't be that wide-eyed, can you??


My eyes are not great...I'm squinting as I write this.

You don't get the sense that he was lying about anything discussed, and he sometimes comes across as if what he was saying was not intended for publication originally. Phil does not always come across great in these articles, and clearly made mistakes or miscalculations as a first year GM. He's also discussing failures by Fisher and himself to deal with various issues.

He comes across as authentic and human, IMO. I also expect that there were worse things he said about Anthony that he and Rosen eventually left out.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

8/2/2015  3:53 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/2/2015  5:27 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
holfresh wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Papabear wrote:
Papabear Says

He sounds Like the 7th. The profile is the same right down to the vocabulary . Did I spell it right?


Some of this stuff is pretty bizarre.


Sorry Mr. Bear...I am not now, nor have I ever been, "the 7th."


Quite hurt about your vocabulary comparison...no insult implied to "the 7th," of course.

Funny- I look through RealGM now and then, and there are always cultish group of fanboys who go to the extreme to defend their chosen ones. This is true no matter what team forum you go to. There are some on this forum, but it is not as bad.

Anthony is a frustrating player to root for, unfortunately. In some ways seems much more interested in being a personality or celebrity than a player- and perhaps this will be more evident as his skills decline.

I think Carmelo's insistence on being in the All-Star Game was a turning point for Phil Jackson, who had just overpaid for his services at the contract table.

I'm not sure I'm incorrect in saying that we are in the midst of an organizational "struggle" for the soul of the team, pitting Jackson and Fisher against Melo, and possibly, Dolan. I'm not going to recap everything he's said, but the truth is evident if you read everything Jackson has said, starting from the time before the draft.

Phil has seemingly gained the upper hand by trading away Melo's posse, adding the kind of FA players Anthony might not have wanted, and drafting KP over Melo's protege, Winslow.

Should be interesting to see how Anthony responds in training camp and on the court. Hopefully he got the message Phil sent him and rises to the occasion.

As there are those cultish groups who try to lay everything that occurs surrounding the Knicks at Melo's feet..Like Winslow declaring his brand will do well in NY or big name free agents not signing on with the Knicks...

And in the second highlighted sentence, is it the case that you have no evidence of this claim of Melo wanting to be a celebrity more than a player so you have to wait until he stops putting up the good numbers or stop playing well for you to better assess this proclamation...Because right now, his play outshines the celebrity claim...

Have it ever occurred to you that Melo played in the all star games because contractually, it means more to him financially with regards to his endorsements. i.e. his shoe contract??..Or maybe you feel that should not matter???


There is no doubt that much of this team's success or failure rests on Anthony, and that is what any "star" should believe.

The celebrity comment was opinion, of course, but I do see it as true- much more so in a web based digital and social media world.

I do believe that I am right about the Melo/Winslow thing, more than coincidence, but again this is a conclusion based on things read without personal knowledge.

Back to the the All-Star game.

Lets go hypothetical... If it was the case that Anthony risked further injury to his knee by continuing to play as long as he did last year so that he could be in the All-Star exhibition- would you still feel the same way about him getting his extra shoe contract money if it meant that he would not be able to play until January 2016?



I see it completely differently...The success of the season rest on everyone not named Anthony, that includes Fisher and Phil..He is the constant, and you know what you get from him..Everyone else is a variable..It's the lack of talent around him that tell you whether or not the team will be successful...

Regarding his knee, it was established by the doctors that he didn't risk any further damage when he continued to play regular games, well before the all star game..I thought that was a known fact..JR Smith had a similar injury and played in the playoffs..The issue was whether or not he would have enough time to rehab before the next season started..Clearly not an issue..

dk7th
Posts: 30006
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/14/2012
Member: #4228
USA
8/2/2015  6:10 PM
holfresh wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
holfresh wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Papabear wrote:
Papabear Says

He sounds Like the 7th. The profile is the same right down to the vocabulary . Did I spell it right?


Some of this stuff is pretty bizarre.


Sorry Mr. Bear...I am not now, nor have I ever been, "the 7th."


Quite hurt about your vocabulary comparison...no insult implied to "the 7th," of course.

Funny- I look through RealGM now and then, and there are always cultish group of fanboys who go to the extreme to defend their chosen ones. This is true no matter what team forum you go to. There are some on this forum, but it is not as bad.

Anthony is a frustrating player to root for, unfortunately. In some ways seems much more interested in being a personality or celebrity than a player- and perhaps this will be more evident as his skills decline.

I think Carmelo's insistence on being in the All-Star Game was a turning point for Phil Jackson, who had just overpaid for his services at the contract table.

I'm not sure I'm incorrect in saying that we are in the midst of an organizational "struggle" for the soul of the team, pitting Jackson and Fisher against Melo, and possibly, Dolan. I'm not going to recap everything he's said, but the truth is evident if you read everything Jackson has said, starting from the time before the draft.

Phil has seemingly gained the upper hand by trading away Melo's posse, adding the kind of FA players Anthony might not have wanted, and drafting KP over Melo's protege, Winslow.

Should be interesting to see how Anthony responds in training camp and on the court. Hopefully he got the message Phil sent him and rises to the occasion.

As there are those cultish groups who try to lay everything that occurs surrounding the Knicks at Melo's feet..Like Winslow declaring his brand will do well in NY or big name free agents not signing on with the Knicks...

And in the second highlighted sentence, is it the case that you have no evidence of this claim of Melo wanting to be a celebrity more than a player so you have to wait until he stops putting up the good numbers or stop playing well for you to better assess this proclamation...Because right now, his play outshines the celebrity claim...

Have it ever occurred to you that Melo played in the all star games because contractually, it means more to him financially with regards to his endorsements. i.e. his shoe contract??..Or maybe you feel that should not matter???


There is no doubt that much of this team's success or failure rests on Anthony, and that is what any "star" should believe.

The celebrity comment was opinion, of course, but I do see it as true- much more so in a web based digital and social media world.

I do believe that I am right about the Melo/Winslow thing, more than coincidence, but again this is a conclusion based on things read without personal knowledge.

Back to the the All-Star game.

Lets go hypothetical... If it was the case that Anthony risked further injury to his knee by continuing to play as long as he did last year so that he could be in the All-Star exhibition- would you still feel the same way about him getting his extra shoe contract money if it meant that he would not be able to play until January 2016?



I see it completely differently...The success of the season rest on everyone not named Anthony, that includes Fisher and Phil..He is the constant, and you know what you get from him..Everyone else is a variable..It's the lack of talent around him that tell you whether or not the team will be successful...

Regarding his knee, it was established by the doctors that he didn't risk any further damage when he continued to play regular games, well before the all star game..I thought that was a known fact..JR Smith had a similar injury and played in the playoffs..The issue was whether or not he would have enough time to rehab before the next season started..Clearly not an issue..

it's a team game and the highest-paid player should ask to be paid in proportion to his ability to make his teammates better. and under the present salary cap conditions, there have been some more-successful players who do in fact make their teammates better than anthony ever has and ever will... who have taken less money to have a better chance of assembling a team with better players and achieve greater success.

you are clearly the worst sort of basketball fan. you clearly have never been coached, or you have never been coached properly. you think basketball is five one-on-one games, and this is manifest by your being predisposed to liking one-on-one players. moreover, you have a greedy, money grubbing attitude that shows horrid values. lastly, you think scoring is the most important way of reflecting the value of a player.

money asisde, and at the end of the day, there are russellians and chamberlainists. you are clearly the latter.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
holfresh
Posts: 38679
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Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

8/2/2015  6:20 PM
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
holfresh wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Papabear wrote:
Papabear Says

He sounds Like the 7th. The profile is the same right down to the vocabulary . Did I spell it right?


Some of this stuff is pretty bizarre.


Sorry Mr. Bear...I am not now, nor have I ever been, "the 7th."


Quite hurt about your vocabulary comparison...no insult implied to "the 7th," of course.

Funny- I look through RealGM now and then, and there are always cultish group of fanboys who go to the extreme to defend their chosen ones. This is true no matter what team forum you go to. There are some on this forum, but it is not as bad.

Anthony is a frustrating player to root for, unfortunately. In some ways seems much more interested in being a personality or celebrity than a player- and perhaps this will be more evident as his skills decline.

I think Carmelo's insistence on being in the All-Star Game was a turning point for Phil Jackson, who had just overpaid for his services at the contract table.

I'm not sure I'm incorrect in saying that we are in the midst of an organizational "struggle" for the soul of the team, pitting Jackson and Fisher against Melo, and possibly, Dolan. I'm not going to recap everything he's said, but the truth is evident if you read everything Jackson has said, starting from the time before the draft.

Phil has seemingly gained the upper hand by trading away Melo's posse, adding the kind of FA players Anthony might not have wanted, and drafting KP over Melo's protege, Winslow.

Should be interesting to see how Anthony responds in training camp and on the court. Hopefully he got the message Phil sent him and rises to the occasion.

As there are those cultish groups who try to lay everything that occurs surrounding the Knicks at Melo's feet..Like Winslow declaring his brand will do well in NY or big name free agents not signing on with the Knicks...

And in the second highlighted sentence, is it the case that you have no evidence of this claim of Melo wanting to be a celebrity more than a player so you have to wait until he stops putting up the good numbers or stop playing well for you to better assess this proclamation...Because right now, his play outshines the celebrity claim...

Have it ever occurred to you that Melo played in the all star games because contractually, it means more to him financially with regards to his endorsements. i.e. his shoe contract??..Or maybe you feel that should not matter???


There is no doubt that much of this team's success or failure rests on Anthony, and that is what any "star" should believe.

The celebrity comment was opinion, of course, but I do see it as true- much more so in a web based digital and social media world.

I do believe that I am right about the Melo/Winslow thing, more than coincidence, but again this is a conclusion based on things read without personal knowledge.

Back to the the All-Star game.

Lets go hypothetical... If it was the case that Anthony risked further injury to his knee by continuing to play as long as he did last year so that he could be in the All-Star exhibition- would you still feel the same way about him getting his extra shoe contract money if it meant that he would not be able to play until January 2016?



I see it completely differently...The success of the season rest on everyone not named Anthony, that includes Fisher and Phil..He is the constant, and you know what you get from him..Everyone else is a variable..It's the lack of talent around him that tell you whether or not the team will be successful...

Regarding his knee, it was established by the doctors that he didn't risk any further damage when he continued to play regular games, well before the all star game..I thought that was a known fact..JR Smith had a similar injury and played in the playoffs..The issue was whether or not he would have enough time to rehab before the next season started..Clearly not an issue..

it's a team game and the highest-paid player should ask to be paid in proportion to his ability to make his teammates better. and under the present salary cap conditions, there have been some more-successful players who do in fact make their teammates better than anthony ever has and ever will... who have taken less money to have a better chance of assembling a team with better players and achieve greater success.

you are clearly the worst sort of basketball fan. you clearly have never been coached, or you have never been coached properly. you think basketball is five one-on-one games, and this is manifest by your being predisposed to liking one-on-one players. moreover, you have a greedy, money grubbing attitude that shows horrid values. lastly, you think scoring is the most important way of reflecting the value of a player.

money asisde, and at the end of the day, there are russellians and chamberlainists. you are clearly the latter.

hahahahahaahahahahahaha..

CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
8/2/2015  6:33 PM
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
holfresh wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Papabear wrote:
Papabear Says

He sounds Like the 7th. The profile is the same right down to the vocabulary . Did I spell it right?


Some of this stuff is pretty bizarre.


Sorry Mr. Bear...I am not now, nor have I ever been, "the 7th."


Quite hurt about your vocabulary comparison...no insult implied to "the 7th," of course.

Funny- I look through RealGM now and then, and there are always cultish group of fanboys who go to the extreme to defend their chosen ones. This is true no matter what team forum you go to. There are some on this forum, but it is not as bad.

Anthony is a frustrating player to root for, unfortunately. In some ways seems much more interested in being a personality or celebrity than a player- and perhaps this will be more evident as his skills decline.

I think Carmelo's insistence on being in the All-Star Game was a turning point for Phil Jackson, who had just overpaid for his services at the contract table.

I'm not sure I'm incorrect in saying that we are in the midst of an organizational "struggle" for the soul of the team, pitting Jackson and Fisher against Melo, and possibly, Dolan. I'm not going to recap everything he's said, but the truth is evident if you read everything Jackson has said, starting from the time before the draft.

Phil has seemingly gained the upper hand by trading away Melo's posse, adding the kind of FA players Anthony might not have wanted, and drafting KP over Melo's protege, Winslow.

Should be interesting to see how Anthony responds in training camp and on the court. Hopefully he got the message Phil sent him and rises to the occasion.

As there are those cultish groups who try to lay everything that occurs surrounding the Knicks at Melo's feet..Like Winslow declaring his brand will do well in NY or big name free agents not signing on with the Knicks...

And in the second highlighted sentence, is it the case that you have no evidence of this claim of Melo wanting to be a celebrity more than a player so you have to wait until he stops putting up the good numbers or stop playing well for you to better assess this proclamation...Because right now, his play outshines the celebrity claim...

Have it ever occurred to you that Melo played in the all star games because contractually, it means more to him financially with regards to his endorsements. i.e. his shoe contract??..Or maybe you feel that should not matter???


There is no doubt that much of this team's success or failure rests on Anthony, and that is what any "star" should believe.

The celebrity comment was opinion, of course, but I do see it as true- much more so in a web based digital and social media world.

I do believe that I am right about the Melo/Winslow thing, more than coincidence, but again this is a conclusion based on things read without personal knowledge.

Back to the the All-Star game.

Lets go hypothetical... If it was the case that Anthony risked further injury to his knee by continuing to play as long as he did last year so that he could be in the All-Star exhibition- would you still feel the same way about him getting his extra shoe contract money if it meant that he would not be able to play until January 2016?



I see it completely differently...The success of the season rest on everyone not named Anthony, that includes Fisher and Phil..He is the constant, and you know what you get from him..Everyone else is a variable..It's the lack of talent around him that tell you whether or not the team will be successful...

Regarding his knee, it was established by the doctors that he didn't risk any further damage when he continued to play regular games, well before the all star game..I thought that was a known fact..JR Smith had a similar injury and played in the playoffs..The issue was whether or not he would have enough time to rehab before the next season started..Clearly not an issue..

it's a team game and the highest-paid player should ask to be paid in proportion to his ability to make his teammates better. and under the present salary cap conditions, there have been some more-successful players who do in fact make their teammates better than anthony ever has and ever will... who have taken less money to have a better chance of assembling a team with better players and achieve greater success.

you are clearly the worst sort of basketball fan. you clearly have never been coached, or you have never been coached properly. you think basketball is five one-on-one games, and this is manifest by your being predisposed to liking one-on-one players. moreover, you have a greedy, money grubbing attitude that shows horrid values. lastly, you think scoring is the most important way of reflecting the value of a player.

money asisde, and at the end of the day, there are russellians and chamberlainists. you are clearly the latter.

Pretty sure the bolded is a dk cut and paste from a previous post.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
dk7th
Posts: 30006
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/14/2012
Member: #4228
USA
8/2/2015  7:18 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
holfresh wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Papabear wrote:
Papabear Says

He sounds Like the 7th. The profile is the same right down to the vocabulary . Did I spell it right?


Some of this stuff is pretty bizarre.


Sorry Mr. Bear...I am not now, nor have I ever been, "the 7th."


Quite hurt about your vocabulary comparison...no insult implied to "the 7th," of course.

Funny- I look through RealGM now and then, and there are always cultish group of fanboys who go to the extreme to defend their chosen ones. This is true no matter what team forum you go to. There are some on this forum, but it is not as bad.

Anthony is a frustrating player to root for, unfortunately. In some ways seems much more interested in being a personality or celebrity than a player- and perhaps this will be more evident as his skills decline.

I think Carmelo's insistence on being in the All-Star Game was a turning point for Phil Jackson, who had just overpaid for his services at the contract table.

I'm not sure I'm incorrect in saying that we are in the midst of an organizational "struggle" for the soul of the team, pitting Jackson and Fisher against Melo, and possibly, Dolan. I'm not going to recap everything he's said, but the truth is evident if you read everything Jackson has said, starting from the time before the draft.

Phil has seemingly gained the upper hand by trading away Melo's posse, adding the kind of FA players Anthony might not have wanted, and drafting KP over Melo's protege, Winslow.

Should be interesting to see how Anthony responds in training camp and on the court. Hopefully he got the message Phil sent him and rises to the occasion.

As there are those cultish groups who try to lay everything that occurs surrounding the Knicks at Melo's feet..Like Winslow declaring his brand will do well in NY or big name free agents not signing on with the Knicks...

And in the second highlighted sentence, is it the case that you have no evidence of this claim of Melo wanting to be a celebrity more than a player so you have to wait until he stops putting up the good numbers or stop playing well for you to better assess this proclamation...Because right now, his play outshines the celebrity claim...

Have it ever occurred to you that Melo played in the all star games because contractually, it means more to him financially with regards to his endorsements. i.e. his shoe contract??..Or maybe you feel that should not matter???


There is no doubt that much of this team's success or failure rests on Anthony, and that is what any "star" should believe.

The celebrity comment was opinion, of course, but I do see it as true- much more so in a web based digital and social media world.

I do believe that I am right about the Melo/Winslow thing, more than coincidence, but again this is a conclusion based on things read without personal knowledge.

Back to the the All-Star game.

Lets go hypothetical... If it was the case that Anthony risked further injury to his knee by continuing to play as long as he did last year so that he could be in the All-Star exhibition- would you still feel the same way about him getting his extra shoe contract money if it meant that he would not be able to play until January 2016?



I see it completely differently...The success of the season rest on everyone not named Anthony, that includes Fisher and Phil..He is the constant, and you know what you get from him..Everyone else is a variable..It's the lack of talent around him that tell you whether or not the team will be successful...

Regarding his knee, it was established by the doctors that he didn't risk any further damage when he continued to play regular games, well before the all star game..I thought that was a known fact..JR Smith had a similar injury and played in the playoffs..The issue was whether or not he would have enough time to rehab before the next season started..Clearly not an issue..

it's a team game and the highest-paid player should ask to be paid in proportion to his ability to make his teammates better. and under the present salary cap conditions, there have been some more-successful players who do in fact make their teammates better than anthony ever has and ever will... who have taken less money to have a better chance of assembling a team with better players and achieve greater success.

you are clearly the worst sort of basketball fan. you clearly have never been coached, or you have never been coached properly. you think basketball is five one-on-one games, and this is manifest by your being predisposed to liking one-on-one players. moreover, you have a greedy, money grubbing attitude that shows horrid values. lastly, you think scoring is the most important way of reflecting the value of a player.

money aside, and at the end of the day, there are russellians and chamberlainists. you are clearly the latter.

Pretty sure the bolded is a dk cut and paste from a previous post.

what does it matter... cut and paste or ex tempore... i have made an assessment that, given his hahaha response, is true. would you like an assessment of your very own?

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
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Member: #452
USA
8/2/2015  7:35 PM
^^^you already gave me that one I believe.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
dk7th
Posts: 30006
Alba Posts: 1
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Member: #4228
USA
8/2/2015  11:11 PM
CrushAlot wrote:^^^you already gave me that one I believe.

you may find it useful to cut and paste it then. i will provide an update as necessary.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
WaltLongmire
Posts: 27623
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Joined: 6/28/2014
Member: #5843

8/3/2015  4:23 PM
holfresh wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
holfresh wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Papabear wrote:
Papabear Says

He sounds Like the 7th. The profile is the same right down to the vocabulary . Did I spell it right?


Some of this stuff is pretty bizarre.


Sorry Mr. Bear...I am not now, nor have I ever been, "the 7th."


Quite hurt about your vocabulary comparison...no insult implied to "the 7th," of course.

Funny- I look through RealGM now and then, and there are always cultish group of fanboys who go to the extreme to defend their chosen ones. This is true no matter what team forum you go to. There are some on this forum, but it is not as bad.

Anthony is a frustrating player to root for, unfortunately. In some ways seems much more interested in being a personality or celebrity than a player- and perhaps this will be more evident as his skills decline.

I think Carmelo's insistence on being in the All-Star Game was a turning point for Phil Jackson, who had just overpaid for his services at the contract table.

I'm not sure I'm incorrect in saying that we are in the midst of an organizational "struggle" for the soul of the team, pitting Jackson and Fisher against Melo, and possibly, Dolan. I'm not going to recap everything he's said, but the truth is evident if you read everything Jackson has said, starting from the time before the draft.

Phil has seemingly gained the upper hand by trading away Melo's posse, adding the kind of FA players Anthony might not have wanted, and drafting KP over Melo's protege, Winslow.

Should be interesting to see how Anthony responds in training camp and on the court. Hopefully he got the message Phil sent him and rises to the occasion.

As there are those cultish groups who try to lay everything that occurs surrounding the Knicks at Melo's feet..Like Winslow declaring his brand will do well in NY or big name free agents not signing on with the Knicks...

And in the second highlighted sentence, is it the case that you have no evidence of this claim of Melo wanting to be a celebrity more than a player so you have to wait until he stops putting up the good numbers or stop playing well for you to better assess this proclamation...Because right now, his play outshines the celebrity claim...

Have it ever occurred to you that Melo played in the all star games because contractually, it means more to him financially with regards to his endorsements. i.e. his shoe contract??..Or maybe you feel that should not matter???


There is no doubt that much of this team's success or failure rests on Anthony, and that is what any "star" should believe.

The celebrity comment was opinion, of course, but I do see it as true- much more so in a web based digital and social media world.

I do believe that I am right about the Melo/Winslow thing, more than coincidence, but again this is a conclusion based on things read without personal knowledge.

Back to the the All-Star game.

Lets go hypothetical... If it was the case that Anthony risked further injury to his knee by continuing to play as long as he did last year so that he could be in the All-Star exhibition- would you still feel the same way about him getting his extra shoe contract money if it meant that he would not be able to play until January 2016?



I see it completely differently...The success of the season rest on everyone not named Anthony, that includes Fisher and Phil..He is the constant, and you know what you get from him..Everyone else is a variable..It's the lack of talent around him that tell you whether or not the team will be successful...

Regarding his knee, it was established by the doctors that he didn't risk any further damage when he continued to play regular games, well before the all star game..I thought that was a known fact..JR Smith had a similar injury and played in the playoffs..The issue was whether or not he would have enough time to rehab before the next season started..Clearly not an issue..


You are clearly missing the concept of "hypothetical" by avoiding the question I asked you.

Yes or No...

... If it was the case that Anthony risked further injury to his knee by continuing to play as long as he did last year so that he could be in the All-Star exhibition- would you still feel the same way about him getting his extra shoe contract money if it meant that he would not be able to play until January 2016?

Would that go over well with you as a:

Fan?

Teammate?

Coach?

GM?


Seems like an easy question to answer.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
ChuckBuck
Posts: 28851
Alba Posts: 11
Joined: 1/3/2012
Member: #3806
USA
8/3/2015  4:27 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
holfresh wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
holfresh wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Papabear wrote:
Papabear Says

He sounds Like the 7th. The profile is the same right down to the vocabulary . Did I spell it right?


Some of this stuff is pretty bizarre.


Sorry Mr. Bear...I am not now, nor have I ever been, "the 7th."


Quite hurt about your vocabulary comparison...no insult implied to "the 7th," of course.

Funny- I look through RealGM now and then, and there are always cultish group of fanboys who go to the extreme to defend their chosen ones. This is true no matter what team forum you go to. There are some on this forum, but it is not as bad.

Anthony is a frustrating player to root for, unfortunately. In some ways seems much more interested in being a personality or celebrity than a player- and perhaps this will be more evident as his skills decline.

I think Carmelo's insistence on being in the All-Star Game was a turning point for Phil Jackson, who had just overpaid for his services at the contract table.

I'm not sure I'm incorrect in saying that we are in the midst of an organizational "struggle" for the soul of the team, pitting Jackson and Fisher against Melo, and possibly, Dolan. I'm not going to recap everything he's said, but the truth is evident if you read everything Jackson has said, starting from the time before the draft.

Phil has seemingly gained the upper hand by trading away Melo's posse, adding the kind of FA players Anthony might not have wanted, and drafting KP over Melo's protege, Winslow.

Should be interesting to see how Anthony responds in training camp and on the court. Hopefully he got the message Phil sent him and rises to the occasion.

As there are those cultish groups who try to lay everything that occurs surrounding the Knicks at Melo's feet..Like Winslow declaring his brand will do well in NY or big name free agents not signing on with the Knicks...

And in the second highlighted sentence, is it the case that you have no evidence of this claim of Melo wanting to be a celebrity more than a player so you have to wait until he stops putting up the good numbers or stop playing well for you to better assess this proclamation...Because right now, his play outshines the celebrity claim...

Have it ever occurred to you that Melo played in the all star games because contractually, it means more to him financially with regards to his endorsements. i.e. his shoe contract??..Or maybe you feel that should not matter???


There is no doubt that much of this team's success or failure rests on Anthony, and that is what any "star" should believe.

The celebrity comment was opinion, of course, but I do see it as true- much more so in a web based digital and social media world.

I do believe that I am right about the Melo/Winslow thing, more than coincidence, but again this is a conclusion based on things read without personal knowledge.

Back to the the All-Star game.

Lets go hypothetical... If it was the case that Anthony risked further injury to his knee by continuing to play as long as he did last year so that he could be in the All-Star exhibition- would you still feel the same way about him getting his extra shoe contract money if it meant that he would not be able to play until January 2016?



I see it completely differently...The success of the season rest on everyone not named Anthony, that includes Fisher and Phil..He is the constant, and you know what you get from him..Everyone else is a variable..It's the lack of talent around him that tell you whether or not the team will be successful...

Regarding his knee, it was established by the doctors that he didn't risk any further damage when he continued to play regular games, well before the all star game..I thought that was a known fact..JR Smith had a similar injury and played in the playoffs..The issue was whether or not he would have enough time to rehab before the next season started..Clearly not an issue..


You are clearly missing the concept of "hypothetical" by avoiding the question I asked you.

Yes or No...

... If it was the case that Anthony risked further injury to his knee by continuing to play as long as he did last year so that he could be in the All-Star exhibition- would you still feel the same way about him getting his extra shoe contract money if it meant that he would not be able to play until January 2016?

Would that go over well with you as a:

Fan?

Teammate?

Coach?

GM?


Seems like an easy question to answer.

Save it Walt.

He favors the name on the back of the jersey over the name on the front.

holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

8/3/2015  4:32 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/3/2015  4:43 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
holfresh wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
holfresh wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Papabear wrote:
Papabear Says

He sounds Like the 7th. The profile is the same right down to the vocabulary . Did I spell it right?


Some of this stuff is pretty bizarre.


Sorry Mr. Bear...I am not now, nor have I ever been, "the 7th."


Quite hurt about your vocabulary comparison...no insult implied to "the 7th," of course.

Funny- I look through RealGM now and then, and there are always cultish group of fanboys who go to the extreme to defend their chosen ones. This is true no matter what team forum you go to. There are some on this forum, but it is not as bad.

Anthony is a frustrating player to root for, unfortunately. In some ways seems much more interested in being a personality or celebrity than a player- and perhaps this will be more evident as his skills decline.

I think Carmelo's insistence on being in the All-Star Game was a turning point for Phil Jackson, who had just overpaid for his services at the contract table.

I'm not sure I'm incorrect in saying that we are in the midst of an organizational "struggle" for the soul of the team, pitting Jackson and Fisher against Melo, and possibly, Dolan. I'm not going to recap everything he's said, but the truth is evident if you read everything Jackson has said, starting from the time before the draft.

Phil has seemingly gained the upper hand by trading away Melo's posse, adding the kind of FA players Anthony might not have wanted, and drafting KP over Melo's protege, Winslow.

Should be interesting to see how Anthony responds in training camp and on the court. Hopefully he got the message Phil sent him and rises to the occasion.

As there are those cultish groups who try to lay everything that occurs surrounding the Knicks at Melo's feet..Like Winslow declaring his brand will do well in NY or big name free agents not signing on with the Knicks...

And in the second highlighted sentence, is it the case that you have no evidence of this claim of Melo wanting to be a celebrity more than a player so you have to wait until he stops putting up the good numbers or stop playing well for you to better assess this proclamation...Because right now, his play outshines the celebrity claim...

Have it ever occurred to you that Melo played in the all star games because contractually, it means more to him financially with regards to his endorsements. i.e. his shoe contract??..Or maybe you feel that should not matter???


There is no doubt that much of this team's success or failure rests on Anthony, and that is what any "star" should believe.

The celebrity comment was opinion, of course, but I do see it as true- much more so in a web based digital and social media world.

I do believe that I am right about the Melo/Winslow thing, more than coincidence, but again this is a conclusion based on things read without personal knowledge.

Back to the the All-Star game.

Lets go hypothetical... If it was the case that Anthony risked further injury to his knee by continuing to play as long as he did last year so that he could be in the All-Star exhibition- would you still feel the same way about him getting his extra shoe contract money if it meant that he would not be able to play until January 2016?



I see it completely differently...The success of the season rest on everyone not named Anthony, that includes Fisher and Phil..He is the constant, and you know what you get from him..Everyone else is a variable..It's the lack of talent around him that tell you whether or not the team will be successful...

Regarding his knee, it was established by the doctors that he didn't risk any further damage when he continued to play regular games, well before the all star game..I thought that was a known fact..JR Smith had a similar injury and played in the playoffs..The issue was whether or not he would have enough time to rehab before the next season started..Clearly not an issue..


You are clearly missing the concept of "hypothetical" by avoiding the question I asked you.

Yes or No...

... If it was the case that Anthony risked further injury to his knee by continuing to play as long as he did last year so that he could be in the All-Star exhibition- would you still feel the same way about him getting his extra shoe contract money if it meant that he would not be able to play until January 2016?

Would that go over well with you as a:

Fan?

Teammate?

Coach?

GM?


Seems like an easy question to answer.

But that was clearly not the situation..Going in, you know he can't risk further injury according to the doctors...The only reason he played was that there were no risk..Of course if there is a risk you wouldn't want him to play but that was not the situation before hand...Your point is that he should not play in the all star game because it risked further injury which is completely untrue...

Why even delve into the hypothetical when you know the prognoses??

RedmenBaller
Posts: 20116
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/27/2015
Member: #6084

8/3/2015  4:55 PM
Interview in New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/20/sports/basketball/phil-jackson-nba-draft-knicks-carmelo-anthony.html?_r=0

Pertaining to Melo playing All Star Game.

Q. Speaking of branding, why did Anthony play in the All-Star Game when it was clear that he needed knee surgery?
Photo


Steve Mills, the Knicks' general manager, couldn't hide his disappointment when the Knicks slipped to No. 4 at the N.B.A. draft lottery in May. Credit Chang W. Lee/The New York Times
JACKSON I don’t see any value at all in an All-Star Game. None. I think it was a pretty exciting game this year because of its speed. But as a coach, what’s the point? But when guys have, as part of their contract, shoe things when they make the All-Star team, we try to accommodate what will help them move forward with their lives and their careers. So when we sat down with Carmelo in London and we had dinner with him, we actually pointed to that date as a possible time for him to shut it down. If he was going to have the full ability to have an operation, go through rehab and training, and get ready for next season, that was an appropriate time because it gave him March, April, May, June, July, etc., and he was going to need at least six months. So we actually did plan that date.

Q. The date that he shut it down?

JACKSON We didn’t plan the exact date, but we said, “You want to play in the All-Star Game, don’t you?” And he said, “Yeah, I want to play.” I said: “Well, that’s a date we could work with. So let’s go from there.”

MILLS To put it all in context, Carmelo was playing with an injury that wasn’t going to get worse. There was no risk to him playing, but it takes a certain amount of time to get it done. So we needed to pick a time when he could get it done. And I can’t speak for Carmelo, but I think he felt like he had an obligation as the face of the New York Knicks with the All-Star Game at Madison Square Garden: “I should be here and play in the All-Star Game.” It wasn’t a risk.

JACKSON The idea of whether it was the right thing to do, I can see where people could look at it and be skeptical. How do you think he played that night? I think he got between the free throw line and the other free throw line. I don’t think he could run very well.

Q. How is Anthony’s rehab going?

JACKSON We’re really pleased. Everything’s going along swimmingly, as they would say. Swimmingly.

Congrats to Melo top 25 player on Team USA history

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