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Knicks Talk With Sasha Vujacic
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WaltLongmire
Posts: 27623
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Joined: 6/28/2014
Member: #5843

8/2/2015  12:16 AM
DJMUSIC wrote:sorry
I like some of the knicks off season moves,
many was turning nothing to something for upcoming camp

However this Sasha Vujacic is a waste of $$$
and time by Phil Jackson

We never learn from these things
what has this guy done ? ? ?
since the LAL Kobe last championship yrs, with Gasol ?

This makes no sense bringing in a washedup
Sasha Vujacic for sake of Triangle play

Go figure Jackson
could have saved the $$$signing for someone else

Sasha Vujacic will not work in NY
maybe 3-5 yrs ago

You got to be kidding me ?


I'm going to give Jackson the benefit of the doubt on this signing for now.

I think many of us look at this type of signing with losing out on Ndour still fresh in our minds.

Have to say that it did catch me by surprise, though- I would rather have signed him to a training camp deal and made him earn a guaranteed contract.

With that said, he's been playing overseas, and maybe they've seen him play enough, and added to his history with Jackson, this is what got him a contract.

Hope he shows he is worthy of a roster spot.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
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nixluva
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USA
8/2/2015  2:41 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
nixluva wrote:
DJMUSIC wrote:sorry
I like some of the knicks off season moves,
many was turning nothing to something for upcoming camp

However this Sasha Vujacic is a waste of $$$
and time by Phil Jackson

We never learn from these things
what has this guy done ? ? ?
since the LAL Kobe last championship yrs, with Gasol ?

This makes no sense bringing in a washedup
Sasha Vujacic for sake of Triangle play

Go figure Jackson
could have saved the $$$signing for someone else

Sasha Vujacic will not work in NY
maybe 3-5 yrs ago

You got to be kidding me ?


I don't think he's here to log major minutes. We have to keep things in perspective. The guys we're signing now are not intended to be major contributors. If we are down to depending Sasha then things have gone really wrong. He's here to fill in and play a role as a veteran presence who has experience in this system. Some young guy who has talent but no idea how to function in the Triangle isn't necessarily a better option off the bench. Sasha's not a long term answer but he might serve a good purpose in the short term. I'm hoping the guards ahead of him Ball Out and we never really have to play him much.

What team is faster than the Knicks? I believe the answer is all of them or very close to it.


I understand why you are pushing the Anderson and Powell narrative. 2 athletic young players is sexy. In theory they would add to the team's speed and athletic ability. There's more to it than just adding some athletic players tho. The BB IQ and skills have to fit as well.

The Knicks don't want to walk it up overtime down. The plan is to push the pace more but they won't be confused with SSOL. The Knicks should be able to control the tempo in most games with better execution. The more effective the Knicks are on offense it will make them more effective on defense and they should be able to keep the game from being a track meet. Yes there are a few teams that are TRULY fast but I wouldn't overstate the situation.

BRIGGS
Posts: 53275
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Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
8/2/2015  6:51 AM
nixluva wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
nixluva wrote:
DJMUSIC wrote:sorry
I like some of the knicks off season moves,
many was turning nothing to something for upcoming camp

However this Sasha Vujacic is a waste of $$$
and time by Phil Jackson

We never learn from these things
what has this guy done ? ? ?
since the LAL Kobe last championship yrs, with Gasol ?

This makes no sense bringing in a washedup
Sasha Vujacic for sake of Triangle play

Go figure Jackson
could have saved the $$$signing for someone else

Sasha Vujacic will not work in NY
maybe 3-5 yrs ago

You got to be kidding me ?


I don't think he's here to log major minutes. We have to keep things in perspective. The guys we're signing now are not intended to be major contributors. If we are down to depending Sasha then things have gone really wrong. He's here to fill in and play a role as a veteran presence who has experience in this system. Some young guy who has talent but no idea how to function in the Triangle isn't necessarily a better option off the bench. Sasha's not a long term answer but he might serve a good purpose in the short term. I'm hoping the guards ahead of him Ball Out and we never really have to play him much.

What team is faster than the Knicks? I believe the answer is all of them or very close to it.


I understand why you are pushing the Anderson and Powell narrative. 2 athletic young players is sexy. In theory they would add to the team's speed and athletic ability. There's more to it than just adding some athletic players tho. The BB IQ and skills have to fit as well.

The Knicks don't want to walk it up overtime down. The plan is to push the pace more but they won't be confused with SSOL. The Knicks should be able to control the tempo in most games with better execution. The more effective the Knicks are on offense it will make them more effective on defense and they should be able to keep the game from being a track meet. Yes there are a few teams that are TRULY fast but I wouldn't overstate the situation.

Well have to wait and see

RIP Crushalot😞
EnySpree
Posts: 44917
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Member: #397

8/2/2015  8:31 AM
You can only run if you have the personnel. What qualifies as having the personnel?

Derrick Williams, Melo, Calderón, Robin, Kristaps, Cleananthony, Grant, Sasha...all these guys play well in the open court. Lou Amundson and Lance too. O'Quinn and Afflalo ran a bit in Orlando too especially last year.

Are we trying to win the Colgate games or nba basketball games?

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Rookie
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8/2/2015  8:46 AM
Interview from 2012. Talks a lot about team concept over single player stats. Highlights show nice movement and passing. Very triangley

nixluva
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8/2/2015  12:32 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
nixluva wrote:
blkexec is right about the fact that you don't necessarily have to be young and athletic to be successful in the Triangle. Especially if you're a low minute reserve off the bench. It's more about BB IQ and skill. As long as Vujacic can move and shoot he should be fine filling in. You don't have to be blazing fast or athletic to get the job done. I don't think Vujacic is anywhere near his prime self but then again we haven't really been able to watch him play. I can't imagine that he's any slower than Jose.

My guess is that he won't be expected to push the ball every time down the floor, if he's in there. I'm guessing he'll be used as the trailing guard to receive the Lag Pass. In any event his knowledge of the Triangle should help a great deal in practice and in games when he's called upon. We've got enough young guys and will likely add a couple more.


Again, no offense ( but I guess I don't care if you are offended), but you still have no idea what you are talking about.

Jerian Grant - Rookie. Let me repeat that again, since so many seem to simply avoid the issue - THE KID IS A ROOKIE. Rookies do things like hit a rookie wall in terms of endurance throughout the longer NBA season compared to college, they tend to struggle early on defensively, they tend to struggle with the speed of the game, many have foul trouble since they don't have an established rep and rapport with the existing refs, they don't know all the tendencies of most other players in the league like veterans do, there are a host of reasons why the future can look bright for Grant over the long haul, but that it's never a great idea to rely on a rookie floor general.

Aaron Affalo - Has been declining the past few years, at the part of his career where injuries could start to be a concern

Langston Galloway - Did not even have a full rookie year last year. Still subject to rookie/sophomore growing pains.

Jose Calderon - At the age where he is prone to injury and needs to be paced for minutes and only used in certain matchups and situations because of the defensive liability issue.

Calderon gets winged up and Grant or Galloway hit a developmental roadbump and now Vujacic is part of the rotation.

IN THE HISTORY OF ALL OF MODERN PRO SPORTS, how many players, maybe save Jordan, leave for two years and come back as anything other than likely a liability/front office blunder? What's the likely rate of return here?

And here's the cherry on top. Dude is a lousy defender, and that was when he was YOUNGER AND WAS ON AN NBA ROSTER. What do you think his defense looks like now?

If the Knicks were going to sign an aging player out of the league, at least sign a guy WHO COULD DEFEND HIS OWN WEIGHT when he played.

He has no trade value
He has no future value for the long term
The Knicks don't have a 2016 pick, period. It would be nice to start developing whatever young players they can
Given a labor war will erupt after this season, it would be nice to get in some development THIS YEAR before the rules might change and it might be harder for the Knicks to grab some of these young developmental guys.

Thanks for ignoring things like

- DEFENSE
- THE FUTURE
- THE LABOR IMPACT
- THE NEXT DRAFT
- NBA PRECEDENT
- BASIC ATTRITION DURING THE SEASON

For a team with arguably the WORST 15 man roster in the NBA last season, this is not the kind of move built towards future success. This is a luxury move that even a contender would mostly shy away from.

I've said it again and again, Phil Jackson is a rookie GM. The other GMs were groomed and had to wade through blood to make their bones in front offices around the league. While the young players this year might have been on an existing GM's radar for the last 4-5 years, don't expect Jackson to have that kind of deep player knowledge.

This move, like the Amundson and Thomas ones, were LAZY MOVES. Taking the path of least resistance. A younger and more dynamic and more seasoned GM would have a better working knowledge of this year young rookie/UDFA crop.

For what the roster was last year, the Knicks should be leading the NBA in mining the UDFA pool.

You really are something else. You think that every single time someone posts a response that their post must address every conceivable issue and make a worst case scenario. That's not realistic to expect. Perhaps for someone who only posts once in a while an tends to post negative drivel every time he does decide to join the conversation.

Anyone can sit back and point out what COULD go wrong with every player up and down the roster. Just because you made these negative points doesn't mean that's exactly how things will play out. There's always a CHANCE for injury in sports.

Jerian is going to be 23 when the season starts. He's a more mature rookie than your typical one and done young player. I'm sure he'll have some adjustments but that doesn't mean he won't be able to handle the minutes he'll be given. He's not going to be out there asked to carry the weight of the team on his own.

Afflalo may be on the decline or could just have been dealing with playing for 2 different teams in a short span of time and also injuring his shoulder. He's 29 going on 30, not 100.

Notice how you had to come up with issues with Jose, Jerian and Gallo in order to put Sasha into a major role? This is really some negative fear mongering. Sure it could happen but why would any team be in good shape if they were down 3 guards and had to rely on the 4th? Yes if that all happened this team would be in bad shape, but then any team that lost their top 3 guards would equally be in bad shape.

How about you bring up the lack of a 2016 pick again? Oh wait you did!!! Phil has stashed some talent so in essence this team isn't going to be empty handed in 2016 and in each of his drafts he's managed to pick up another pick and to take a look at UDFA's. I think you really need to relax on this particular point.

knicks1248
Posts: 42059
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Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
8/2/2015  12:37 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
nixluva wrote:
blkexec is right about the fact that you don't necessarily have to be young and athletic to be successful in the Triangle. Especially if you're a low minute reserve off the bench. It's more about BB IQ and skill. As long as Vujacic can move and shoot he should be fine filling in. You don't have to be blazing fast or athletic to get the job done. I don't think Vujacic is anywhere near his prime self but then again we haven't really been able to watch him play. I can't imagine that he's any slower than Jose.

My guess is that he won't be expected to push the ball every time down the floor, if he's in there. I'm guessing he'll be used as the trailing guard to receive the Lag Pass. In any event his knowledge of the Triangle should help a great deal in practice and in games when he's called upon. We've got enough young guys and will likely add a couple more.


Again, no offense ( but I guess I don't care if you are offended), but you still have no idea what you are talking about.

Jerian Grant - Rookie. Let me repeat that again, since so many seem to simply avoid the issue - THE KID IS A ROOKIE. Rookies do things like hit a rookie wall in terms of endurance throughout the longer NBA season compared to college, they tend to struggle early on defensively, they tend to struggle with the speed of the game, many have foul trouble since they don't have an established rep and rapport with the existing refs, they don't know all the tendencies of most other players in the league like veterans do, there are a host of reasons why the future can look bright for Grant over the long haul, but that it's never a great idea to rely on a rookie floor general.

Aaron Affalo - Has been declining the past few years, at the part of his career where injuries could start to be a concern

Langston Galloway - Did not even have a full rookie year last year. Still subject to rookie/sophomore growing pains.

Jose Calderon - At the age where he is prone to injury and needs to be paced for minutes and only used in certain matchups and situations because of the defensive liability issue.

Calderon gets winged up and Grant or Galloway hit a developmental roadbump and now Vujacic is part of the rotation.

IN THE HISTORY OF ALL OF MODERN PRO SPORTS, how many players, maybe save Jordan, leave for two years and come back as anything other than likely a liability/front office blunder? What's the likely rate of return here?

And here's the cherry on top. Dude is a lousy defender, and that was when he was YOUNGER AND WAS ON AN NBA ROSTER. What do you think his defense looks like now?

If the Knicks were going to sign an aging player out of the league, at least sign a guy WHO COULD DEFEND HIS OWN WEIGHT when he played.

He has no trade value
He has no future value for the long term
The Knicks don't have a 2016 pick, period. It would be nice to start developing whatever young players they can
Given a labor war will erupt after this season, it would be nice to get in some development THIS YEAR before the rules might change and it might be harder for the Knicks to grab some of these young developmental guys.

Thanks for ignoring things like

- DEFENSE
- THE FUTURE
- THE LABOR IMPACT
- THE NEXT DRAFT
- NBA PRECEDENT
- BASIC ATTRITION DURING THE SEASON

For a team with arguably the WORST 15 man roster in the NBA last season, this is not the kind of move built towards future success. This is a luxury move that even a contender would mostly shy away from.

I've said it again and again, Phil Jackson is a rookie GM. The other GMs were groomed and had to wade through blood to make their bones in front offices around the league. While the young players this year might have been on an existing GM's radar for the last 4-5 years, don't expect Jackson to have that kind of deep player knowledge.

This move, like the Amundson and Thomas ones, were LAZY MOVES. Taking the path of least resistance. A younger and more dynamic and more seasoned GM would have a better working knowledge of this year young rookie/UDFA crop.

For what the roster was last year, the Knicks should be leading the NBA in mining the UDFA pool.

Dude these are plan C, D, E moves, I'm pretty damn sure, Lance, sasha and admunson weren't on phils top priority list. Once the talent pool dry's up, it's time to focus on players that fit, work hard, and are familiar.

The budget has shrank to vet min, and vets don't want anything to do with rebuilding and sitting at the end of the bench, and you don't want players that are primarily looking for a check because they have a little talent.

I understand this signing, it's not like sasha's was sitting home or in a rehab clinic for drug abuse

ES
holfresh
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8/2/2015  1:13 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/2/2015  1:53 PM
nixluva wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
nixluva wrote:
blkexec is right about the fact that you don't necessarily have to be young and athletic to be successful in the Triangle. Especially if you're a low minute reserve off the bench. It's more about BB IQ and skill. As long as Vujacic can move and shoot he should be fine filling in. You don't have to be blazing fast or athletic to get the job done. I don't think Vujacic is anywhere near his prime self but then again we haven't really been able to watch him play. I can't imagine that he's any slower than Jose.

My guess is that he won't be expected to push the ball every time down the floor, if he's in there. I'm guessing he'll be used as the trailing guard to receive the Lag Pass. In any event his knowledge of the Triangle should help a great deal in practice and in games when he's called upon. We've got enough young guys and will likely add a couple more.


Again, no offense ( but I guess I don't care if you are offended), but you still have no idea what you are talking about.

Jerian Grant - Rookie. Let me repeat that again, since so many seem to simply avoid the issue - THE KID IS A ROOKIE. Rookies do things like hit a rookie wall in terms of endurance throughout the longer NBA season compared to college, they tend to struggle early on defensively, they tend to struggle with the speed of the game, many have foul trouble since they don't have an established rep and rapport with the existing refs, they don't know all the tendencies of most other players in the league like veterans do, there are a host of reasons why the future can look bright for Grant over the long haul, but that it's never a great idea to rely on a rookie floor general.

Aaron Affalo - Has been declining the past few years, at the part of his career where injuries could start to be a concern

Langston Galloway - Did not even have a full rookie year last year. Still subject to rookie/sophomore growing pains.

Jose Calderon - At the age where he is prone to injury and needs to be paced for minutes and only used in certain matchups and situations because of the defensive liability issue.

Calderon gets winged up and Grant or Galloway hit a developmental roadbump and now Vujacic is part of the rotation.

IN THE HISTORY OF ALL OF MODERN PRO SPORTS, how many players, maybe save Jordan, leave for two years and come back as anything other than likely a liability/front office blunder? What's the likely rate of return here?

And here's the cherry on top. Dude is a lousy defender, and that was when he was YOUNGER AND WAS ON AN NBA ROSTER. What do you think his defense looks like now?

If the Knicks were going to sign an aging player out of the league, at least sign a guy WHO COULD DEFEND HIS OWN WEIGHT when he played.

He has no trade value
He has no future value for the long term
The Knicks don't have a 2016 pick, period. It would be nice to start developing whatever young players they can
Given a labor war will erupt after this season, it would be nice to get in some development THIS YEAR before the rules might change and it might be harder for the Knicks to grab some of these young developmental guys.

Thanks for ignoring things like

- DEFENSE
- THE FUTURE
- THE LABOR IMPACT
- THE NEXT DRAFT
- NBA PRECEDENT
- BASIC ATTRITION DURING THE SEASON

For a team with arguably the WORST 15 man roster in the NBA last season, this is not the kind of move built towards future success. This is a luxury move that even a contender would mostly shy away from.

I've said it again and again, Phil Jackson is a rookie GM. The other GMs were groomed and had to wade through blood to make their bones in front offices around the league. While the young players this year might have been on an existing GM's radar for the last 4-5 years, don't expect Jackson to have that kind of deep player knowledge.

This move, like the Amundson and Thomas ones, were LAZY MOVES. Taking the path of least resistance. A younger and more dynamic and more seasoned GM would have a better working knowledge of this year young rookie/UDFA crop.

For what the roster was last year, the Knicks should be leading the NBA in mining the UDFA pool.

You really are something else. You think that every single time someone posts a response that their post must address every conceivable issue and make a worst case scenario. That's not realistic to expect. Perhaps for someone who only posts once in a while an tends to post negative drivel every time he does decide to join the conversation.

Anyone can sit back and point out what COULD go wrong with every player up and down the roster. Just because you made these negative points doesn't mean that's exactly how things will play out. There's always a CHANCE for injury in sports.

Jerian is going to be 23 when the season starts. He's a more mature rookie than your typical one and done young player. I'm sure he'll have some adjustments but that doesn't mean he won't be able to handle the minutes he'll be given. He's not going to be out there asked to carry the weight of the team on his own.

Afflalo may be on the decline or could just have been dealing with playing for 2 different teams in a short span of time and also injuring his shoulder. He's 29 going on 30, not 100.

Notice how you had to come up with issues with Jose, Jerian and Gallo in order to put Sasha into a major role? This is really some negative fear mongering. Sure it could happen but why would any team be in good shape if they were down 3 guards and had to rely on the 4th? Yes if that all happened this team would be in bad shape, but then any team that lost their top 3 guards would equally be in bad shape.

How about you bring up the lack of a 2016 pick again? Oh wait you did!!! Phil has stashed some talent so in essence this team isn't going to be empty handed in 2016 and in each of his drafts he's managed to pick up another pick and to take a look at UDFA's. I think you really need to relax on this particular point.

You keep making this statement over and over and over again..Age and maturity has nothing to do with being able to handle an 82 NBA season...It has everything to do with understanding the league and player tendencies, the travel, the speed of the game, the physical play, 4 games in 5 nights, the diet it takes to sustain, the proper workout that keeps your body for 82 games..82 games is a marathon and you won't understand what it takes until you experience it...The mental aspect...Some players can't cope or keep up...Thinking a rookie can do it just because of his age is just silly...

BRIGGS
Posts: 53275
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Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
8/2/2015  1:44 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
nixluva wrote:
blkexec is right about the fact that you don't necessarily have to be young and athletic to be successful in the Triangle. Especially if you're a low minute reserve off the bench. It's more about BB IQ and skill. As long as Vujacic can move and shoot he should be fine filling in. You don't have to be blazing fast or athletic to get the job done. I don't think Vujacic is anywhere near his prime self but then again we haven't really been able to watch him play. I can't imagine that he's any slower than Jose.

My guess is that he won't be expected to push the ball every time down the floor, if he's in there. I'm guessing he'll be used as the trailing guard to receive the Lag Pass. In any event his knowledge of the Triangle should help a great deal in practice and in games when he's called upon. We've got enough young guys and will likely add a couple more.


Again, no offense ( but I guess I don't care if you are offended), but you still have no idea what you are talking about.

Jerian Grant - Rookie. Let me repeat that again, since so many seem to simply avoid the issue - THE KID IS A ROOKIE. Rookies do things like hit a rookie wall in terms of endurance throughout the longer NBA season compared to college, they tend to struggle early on defensively, they tend to struggle with the speed of the game, many have foul trouble since they don't have an established rep and rapport with the existing refs, they don't know all the tendencies of most other players in the league like veterans do, there are a host of reasons why the future can look bright for Grant over the long haul, but that it's never a great idea to rely on a rookie floor general.

Aaron Affalo - Has been declining the past few years, at the part of his career where injuries could start to be a concern

Langston Galloway - Did not even have a full rookie year last year. Still subject to rookie/sophomore growing pains.

Jose Calderon - At the age where he is prone to injury and needs to be paced for minutes and only used in certain matchups and situations because of the defensive liability issue.

Calderon gets winged up and Grant or Galloway hit a developmental roadbump and now Vujacic is part of the rotation.

IN THE HISTORY OF ALL OF MODERN PRO SPORTS, how many players, maybe save Jordan, leave for two years and come back as anything other than likely a liability/front office blunder? What's the likely rate of return here?

And here's the cherry on top. Dude is a lousy defender, and that was when he was YOUNGER AND WAS ON AN NBA ROSTER. What do you think his defense looks like now?

If the Knicks were going to sign an aging player out of the league, at least sign a guy WHO COULD DEFEND HIS OWN WEIGHT when he played.

He has no trade value
He has no future value for the long term
The Knicks don't have a 2016 pick, period. It would be nice to start developing whatever young players they can
Given a labor war will erupt after this season, it would be nice to get in some development THIS YEAR before the rules might change and it might be harder for the Knicks to grab some of these young developmental guys.

Thanks for ignoring things like

- DEFENSE
- THE FUTURE
- THE LABOR IMPACT
- THE NEXT DRAFT
- NBA PRECEDENT
- BASIC ATTRITION DURING THE SEASON

For a team with arguably the WORST 15 man roster in the NBA last season, this is not the kind of move built towards future success. This is a luxury move that even a contender would mostly shy away from.

I've said it again and again, Phil Jackson is a rookie GM. The other GMs were groomed and had to wade through blood to make their bones in front offices around the league. While the young players this year might have been on an existing GM's radar for the last 4-5 years, don't expect Jackson to have that kind of deep player knowledge.

This move, like the Amundson and Thomas ones, were LAZY MOVES. Taking the path of least resistance. A younger and more dynamic and more seasoned GM would have a better working knowledge of this year young rookie/UDFA crop.

For what the roster was last year, the Knicks should be leading the NBA in mining the UDFA pool.

Dude these are plan C, D, E moves, I'm pretty damn sure, Lance, sasha and admunson weren't on phils top priority list. Once the talent pool dry's up, it's time to focus on players that fit, work hard, and are familiar.

The budget has shrank to vet min, and vets don't want anything to do with rebuilding and sitting at the end of the bench, and you don't want players that are primarily looking for a check because they have a little talent.

I understand this signing, it's not like sasha's was sitting home or in a rehab clinic for drug abuse


Phil has put a lot of stock into Grant. Grant needs to be Good for the Knicks grant cannot be a miss. Im a little surprised at pick 35 we must've had some serious insight before the draft that we were going to sign 2 more centers in addition to drafting kp. At this point imho you look at best positional player available if the talent is close. I just look at this team and I just don't see that guy who has the size to defend on the perimter from the 2 g(or the3) I can accept taking grant at 19 but I think we made a move at 35 that makes little sense with our asset allocation. I has Powell as the 23 best prospect and we can argue that he could've been higher. How many 6-4 215 pd guys who measured out as a top 3 athlete with his defensive skills in addition to his penetration ability? We were killing multiple birds with one stone with Powell. At worst he's a a2nd unit energy changer at best he is a first team all defensive guard who avg 17-18 points
RIP Crushalot😞
nixluva
Posts: 56258
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Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
8/2/2015  3:55 PM
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
nixluva wrote:
blkexec is right about the fact that you don't necessarily have to be young and athletic to be successful in the Triangle. Especially if you're a low minute reserve off the bench. It's more about BB IQ and skill. As long as Vujacic can move and shoot he should be fine filling in. You don't have to be blazing fast or athletic to get the job done. I don't think Vujacic is anywhere near his prime self but then again we haven't really been able to watch him play. I can't imagine that he's any slower than Jose.

My guess is that he won't be expected to push the ball every time down the floor, if he's in there. I'm guessing he'll be used as the trailing guard to receive the Lag Pass. In any event his knowledge of the Triangle should help a great deal in practice and in games when he's called upon. We've got enough young guys and will likely add a couple more.


Again, no offense ( but I guess I don't care if you are offended), but you still have no idea what you are talking about.

Jerian Grant - Rookie. Let me repeat that again, since so many seem to simply avoid the issue - THE KID IS A ROOKIE. Rookies do things like hit a rookie wall in terms of endurance throughout the longer NBA season compared to college, they tend to struggle early on defensively, they tend to struggle with the speed of the game, many have foul trouble since they don't have an established rep and rapport with the existing refs, they don't know all the tendencies of most other players in the league like veterans do, there are a host of reasons why the future can look bright for Grant over the long haul, but that it's never a great idea to rely on a rookie floor general.

Aaron Affalo - Has been declining the past few years, at the part of his career where injuries could start to be a concern

Langston Galloway - Did not even have a full rookie year last year. Still subject to rookie/sophomore growing pains.

Jose Calderon - At the age where he is prone to injury and needs to be paced for minutes and only used in certain matchups and situations because of the defensive liability issue.

Calderon gets winged up and Grant or Galloway hit a developmental roadbump and now Vujacic is part of the rotation.

IN THE HISTORY OF ALL OF MODERN PRO SPORTS, how many players, maybe save Jordan, leave for two years and come back as anything other than likely a liability/front office blunder? What's the likely rate of return here?

And here's the cherry on top. Dude is a lousy defender, and that was when he was YOUNGER AND WAS ON AN NBA ROSTER. What do you think his defense looks like now?

If the Knicks were going to sign an aging player out of the league, at least sign a guy WHO COULD DEFEND HIS OWN WEIGHT when he played.

He has no trade value
He has no future value for the long term
The Knicks don't have a 2016 pick, period. It would be nice to start developing whatever young players they can
Given a labor war will erupt after this season, it would be nice to get in some development THIS YEAR before the rules might change and it might be harder for the Knicks to grab some of these young developmental guys.

Thanks for ignoring things like

- DEFENSE
- THE FUTURE
- THE LABOR IMPACT
- THE NEXT DRAFT
- NBA PRECEDENT
- BASIC ATTRITION DURING THE SEASON

For a team with arguably the WORST 15 man roster in the NBA last season, this is not the kind of move built towards future success. This is a luxury move that even a contender would mostly shy away from.

I've said it again and again, Phil Jackson is a rookie GM. The other GMs were groomed and had to wade through blood to make their bones in front offices around the league. While the young players this year might have been on an existing GM's radar for the last 4-5 years, don't expect Jackson to have that kind of deep player knowledge.

This move, like the Amundson and Thomas ones, were LAZY MOVES. Taking the path of least resistance. A younger and more dynamic and more seasoned GM would have a better working knowledge of this year young rookie/UDFA crop.

For what the roster was last year, the Knicks should be leading the NBA in mining the UDFA pool.

You really are something else. You think that every single time someone posts a response that their post must address every conceivable issue and make a worst case scenario. That's not realistic to expect. Perhaps for someone who only posts once in a while an tends to post negative drivel every time he does decide to join the conversation.

Anyone can sit back and point out what COULD go wrong with every player up and down the roster. Just because you made these negative points doesn't mean that's exactly how things will play out. There's always a CHANCE for injury in sports.

Jerian is going to be 23 when the season starts. He's a more mature rookie than your typical one and done young player. I'm sure he'll have some adjustments but that doesn't mean he won't be able to handle the minutes he'll be given. He's not going to be out there asked to carry the weight of the team on his own.

Afflalo may be on the decline or could just have been dealing with playing for 2 different teams in a short span of time and also injuring his shoulder. He's 29 going on 30, not 100.

Notice how you had to come up with issues with Jose, Jerian and Gallo in order to put Sasha into a major role? This is really some negative fear mongering. Sure it could happen but why would any team be in good shape if they were down 3 guards and had to rely on the 4th? Yes if that all happened this team would be in bad shape, but then any team that lost their top 3 guards would equally be in bad shape.

How about you bring up the lack of a 2016 pick again? Oh wait you did!!! Phil has stashed some talent so in essence this team isn't going to be empty handed in 2016 and in each of his drafts he's managed to pick up another pick and to take a look at UDFA's. I think you really need to relax on this particular point.

You keep making this statement over and over and over again..Age and maturity has nothing to do with being able to handle an 82 NBA season...It has everything to do with understanding the league and player tendencies, the travel, the speed of the game, the physical play, 4 games in 5 nights, the diet it takes to sustain, the proper workout that keeps your body for 82 games..82 games is a marathon and you won't understand what it takes until you experience it...The mental aspect...Some players can't cope or keep up...Thinking a rookie can do it just because of his age is just silly...


SOOOOO you think that Jerian Grant who has nothing but NBA players in his family has no idea about what to expect or how to prepare for an NBA season? You and Triple Threat are killing me with this stuff. Sure he's a human and anytime you do something for the 1st time it's gonna be a learning experience, but if any rookie ever came in with more of an idea of what to expect I can't believe there is anyone better prepared than Jerian.
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

8/2/2015  4:01 PM
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
nixluva wrote:
blkexec is right about the fact that you don't necessarily have to be young and athletic to be successful in the Triangle. Especially if you're a low minute reserve off the bench. It's more about BB IQ and skill. As long as Vujacic can move and shoot he should be fine filling in. You don't have to be blazing fast or athletic to get the job done. I don't think Vujacic is anywhere near his prime self but then again we haven't really been able to watch him play. I can't imagine that he's any slower than Jose.

My guess is that he won't be expected to push the ball every time down the floor, if he's in there. I'm guessing he'll be used as the trailing guard to receive the Lag Pass. In any event his knowledge of the Triangle should help a great deal in practice and in games when he's called upon. We've got enough young guys and will likely add a couple more.


Again, no offense ( but I guess I don't care if you are offended), but you still have no idea what you are talking about.

Jerian Grant - Rookie. Let me repeat that again, since so many seem to simply avoid the issue - THE KID IS A ROOKIE. Rookies do things like hit a rookie wall in terms of endurance throughout the longer NBA season compared to college, they tend to struggle early on defensively, they tend to struggle with the speed of the game, many have foul trouble since they don't have an established rep and rapport with the existing refs, they don't know all the tendencies of most other players in the league like veterans do, there are a host of reasons why the future can look bright for Grant over the long haul, but that it's never a great idea to rely on a rookie floor general.

Aaron Affalo - Has been declining the past few years, at the part of his career where injuries could start to be a concern

Langston Galloway - Did not even have a full rookie year last year. Still subject to rookie/sophomore growing pains.

Jose Calderon - At the age where he is prone to injury and needs to be paced for minutes and only used in certain matchups and situations because of the defensive liability issue.

Calderon gets winged up and Grant or Galloway hit a developmental roadbump and now Vujacic is part of the rotation.

IN THE HISTORY OF ALL OF MODERN PRO SPORTS, how many players, maybe save Jordan, leave for two years and come back as anything other than likely a liability/front office blunder? What's the likely rate of return here?

And here's the cherry on top. Dude is a lousy defender, and that was when he was YOUNGER AND WAS ON AN NBA ROSTER. What do you think his defense looks like now?

If the Knicks were going to sign an aging player out of the league, at least sign a guy WHO COULD DEFEND HIS OWN WEIGHT when he played.

He has no trade value
He has no future value for the long term
The Knicks don't have a 2016 pick, period. It would be nice to start developing whatever young players they can
Given a labor war will erupt after this season, it would be nice to get in some development THIS YEAR before the rules might change and it might be harder for the Knicks to grab some of these young developmental guys.

Thanks for ignoring things like

- DEFENSE
- THE FUTURE
- THE LABOR IMPACT
- THE NEXT DRAFT
- NBA PRECEDENT
- BASIC ATTRITION DURING THE SEASON

For a team with arguably the WORST 15 man roster in the NBA last season, this is not the kind of move built towards future success. This is a luxury move that even a contender would mostly shy away from.

I've said it again and again, Phil Jackson is a rookie GM. The other GMs were groomed and had to wade through blood to make their bones in front offices around the league. While the young players this year might have been on an existing GM's radar for the last 4-5 years, don't expect Jackson to have that kind of deep player knowledge.

This move, like the Amundson and Thomas ones, were LAZY MOVES. Taking the path of least resistance. A younger and more dynamic and more seasoned GM would have a better working knowledge of this year young rookie/UDFA crop.

For what the roster was last year, the Knicks should be leading the NBA in mining the UDFA pool.

You really are something else. You think that every single time someone posts a response that their post must address every conceivable issue and make a worst case scenario. That's not realistic to expect. Perhaps for someone who only posts once in a while an tends to post negative drivel every time he does decide to join the conversation.

Anyone can sit back and point out what COULD go wrong with every player up and down the roster. Just because you made these negative points doesn't mean that's exactly how things will play out. There's always a CHANCE for injury in sports.

Jerian is going to be 23 when the season starts. He's a more mature rookie than your typical one and done young player. I'm sure he'll have some adjustments but that doesn't mean he won't be able to handle the minutes he'll be given. He's not going to be out there asked to carry the weight of the team on his own.

Afflalo may be on the decline or could just have been dealing with playing for 2 different teams in a short span of time and also injuring his shoulder. He's 29 going on 30, not 100.

Notice how you had to come up with issues with Jose, Jerian and Gallo in order to put Sasha into a major role? This is really some negative fear mongering. Sure it could happen but why would any team be in good shape if they were down 3 guards and had to rely on the 4th? Yes if that all happened this team would be in bad shape, but then any team that lost their top 3 guards would equally be in bad shape.

How about you bring up the lack of a 2016 pick again? Oh wait you did!!! Phil has stashed some talent so in essence this team isn't going to be empty handed in 2016 and in each of his drafts he's managed to pick up another pick and to take a look at UDFA's. I think you really need to relax on this particular point.

You keep making this statement over and over and over again..Age and maturity has nothing to do with being able to handle an 82 NBA season...It has everything to do with understanding the league and player tendencies, the travel, the speed of the game, the physical play, 4 games in 5 nights, the diet it takes to sustain, the proper workout that keeps your body for 82 games..82 games is a marathon and you won't understand what it takes until you experience it...The mental aspect...Some players can't cope or keep up...Thinking a rookie can do it just because of his age is just silly...


SOOOOO you think that Jerian Grant who has nothing but NBA players in his family has no idea about what to expect or how to prepare for an NBA season? You and Triple Threat are killing me with this stuff. Sure he's a human and anytime you do something for the 1st time it's gonna be a learning experience, but if any rookie ever came in with more of an idea of what to expect I can't believe there is anyone better prepared than Jerian.

The point is you can't bank on what a rookie will give you..
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
8/2/2015  4:26 PM
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
nixluva wrote:
blkexec is right about the fact that you don't necessarily have to be young and athletic to be successful in the Triangle. Especially if you're a low minute reserve off the bench. It's more about BB IQ and skill. As long as Vujacic can move and shoot he should be fine filling in. You don't have to be blazing fast or athletic to get the job done. I don't think Vujacic is anywhere near his prime self but then again we haven't really been able to watch him play. I can't imagine that he's any slower than Jose.

My guess is that he won't be expected to push the ball every time down the floor, if he's in there. I'm guessing he'll be used as the trailing guard to receive the Lag Pass. In any event his knowledge of the Triangle should help a great deal in practice and in games when he's called upon. We've got enough young guys and will likely add a couple more.


Again, no offense ( but I guess I don't care if you are offended), but you still have no idea what you are talking about.

Jerian Grant - Rookie. Let me repeat that again, since so many seem to simply avoid the issue - THE KID IS A ROOKIE. Rookies do things like hit a rookie wall in terms of endurance throughout the longer NBA season compared to college, they tend to struggle early on defensively, they tend to struggle with the speed of the game, many have foul trouble since they don't have an established rep and rapport with the existing refs, they don't know all the tendencies of most other players in the league like veterans do, there are a host of reasons why the future can look bright for Grant over the long haul, but that it's never a great idea to rely on a rookie floor general.

Aaron Affalo - Has been declining the past few years, at the part of his career where injuries could start to be a concern

Langston Galloway - Did not even have a full rookie year last year. Still subject to rookie/sophomore growing pains.

Jose Calderon - At the age where he is prone to injury and needs to be paced for minutes and only used in certain matchups and situations because of the defensive liability issue.

Calderon gets winged up and Grant or Galloway hit a developmental roadbump and now Vujacic is part of the rotation.

IN THE HISTORY OF ALL OF MODERN PRO SPORTS, how many players, maybe save Jordan, leave for two years and come back as anything other than likely a liability/front office blunder? What's the likely rate of return here?

And here's the cherry on top. Dude is a lousy defender, and that was when he was YOUNGER AND WAS ON AN NBA ROSTER. What do you think his defense looks like now?

If the Knicks were going to sign an aging player out of the league, at least sign a guy WHO COULD DEFEND HIS OWN WEIGHT when he played.

He has no trade value
He has no future value for the long term
The Knicks don't have a 2016 pick, period. It would be nice to start developing whatever young players they can
Given a labor war will erupt after this season, it would be nice to get in some development THIS YEAR before the rules might change and it might be harder for the Knicks to grab some of these young developmental guys.

Thanks for ignoring things like

- DEFENSE
- THE FUTURE
- THE LABOR IMPACT
- THE NEXT DRAFT
- NBA PRECEDENT
- BASIC ATTRITION DURING THE SEASON

For a team with arguably the WORST 15 man roster in the NBA last season, this is not the kind of move built towards future success. This is a luxury move that even a contender would mostly shy away from.

I've said it again and again, Phil Jackson is a rookie GM. The other GMs were groomed and had to wade through blood to make their bones in front offices around the league. While the young players this year might have been on an existing GM's radar for the last 4-5 years, don't expect Jackson to have that kind of deep player knowledge.

This move, like the Amundson and Thomas ones, were LAZY MOVES. Taking the path of least resistance. A younger and more dynamic and more seasoned GM would have a better working knowledge of this year young rookie/UDFA crop.

For what the roster was last year, the Knicks should be leading the NBA in mining the UDFA pool.

You really are something else. You think that every single time someone posts a response that their post must address every conceivable issue and make a worst case scenario. That's not realistic to expect. Perhaps for someone who only posts once in a while an tends to post negative drivel every time he does decide to join the conversation.

Anyone can sit back and point out what COULD go wrong with every player up and down the roster. Just because you made these negative points doesn't mean that's exactly how things will play out. There's always a CHANCE for injury in sports.

Jerian is going to be 23 when the season starts. He's a more mature rookie than your typical one and done young player. I'm sure he'll have some adjustments but that doesn't mean he won't be able to handle the minutes he'll be given. He's not going to be out there asked to carry the weight of the team on his own.

Afflalo may be on the decline or could just have been dealing with playing for 2 different teams in a short span of time and also injuring his shoulder. He's 29 going on 30, not 100.

Notice how you had to come up with issues with Jose, Jerian and Gallo in order to put Sasha into a major role? This is really some negative fear mongering. Sure it could happen but why would any team be in good shape if they were down 3 guards and had to rely on the 4th? Yes if that all happened this team would be in bad shape, but then any team that lost their top 3 guards would equally be in bad shape.

How about you bring up the lack of a 2016 pick again? Oh wait you did!!! Phil has stashed some talent so in essence this team isn't going to be empty handed in 2016 and in each of his drafts he's managed to pick up another pick and to take a look at UDFA's. I think you really need to relax on this particular point.

You keep making this statement over and over and over again..Age and maturity has nothing to do with being able to handle an 82 NBA season...It has everything to do with understanding the league and player tendencies, the travel, the speed of the game, the physical play, 4 games in 5 nights, the diet it takes to sustain, the proper workout that keeps your body for 82 games..82 games is a marathon and you won't understand what it takes until you experience it...The mental aspect...Some players can't cope or keep up...Thinking a rookie can do it just because of his age is just silly...


SOOOOO you think that Jerian Grant who has nothing but NBA players in his family has no idea about what to expect or how to prepare for an NBA season? You and Triple Threat are killing me with this stuff. Sure he's a human and anytime you do something for the 1st time it's gonna be a learning experience, but if any rookie ever came in with more of an idea of what to expect I can't believe there is anyone better prepared than Jerian.

The point is you can't bank on what a rookie will give you..

I don't know about banking on anything. I just think you ignored the fact that Jerian is an older rookie coming from a family with multiple NBA players who i'm sure will help him to be prepared for this initial season. Not many rookie players have those factors in their favor. Neither you nor Triple Threat seemed to take that into consideration.
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

8/2/2015  4:31 PM
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
nixluva wrote:
blkexec is right about the fact that you don't necessarily have to be young and athletic to be successful in the Triangle. Especially if you're a low minute reserve off the bench. It's more about BB IQ and skill. As long as Vujacic can move and shoot he should be fine filling in. You don't have to be blazing fast or athletic to get the job done. I don't think Vujacic is anywhere near his prime self but then again we haven't really been able to watch him play. I can't imagine that he's any slower than Jose.

My guess is that he won't be expected to push the ball every time down the floor, if he's in there. I'm guessing he'll be used as the trailing guard to receive the Lag Pass. In any event his knowledge of the Triangle should help a great deal in practice and in games when he's called upon. We've got enough young guys and will likely add a couple more.


Again, no offense ( but I guess I don't care if you are offended), but you still have no idea what you are talking about.

Jerian Grant - Rookie. Let me repeat that again, since so many seem to simply avoid the issue - THE KID IS A ROOKIE. Rookies do things like hit a rookie wall in terms of endurance throughout the longer NBA season compared to college, they tend to struggle early on defensively, they tend to struggle with the speed of the game, many have foul trouble since they don't have an established rep and rapport with the existing refs, they don't know all the tendencies of most other players in the league like veterans do, there are a host of reasons why the future can look bright for Grant over the long haul, but that it's never a great idea to rely on a rookie floor general.

Aaron Affalo - Has been declining the past few years, at the part of his career where injuries could start to be a concern

Langston Galloway - Did not even have a full rookie year last year. Still subject to rookie/sophomore growing pains.

Jose Calderon - At the age where he is prone to injury and needs to be paced for minutes and only used in certain matchups and situations because of the defensive liability issue.

Calderon gets winged up and Grant or Galloway hit a developmental roadbump and now Vujacic is part of the rotation.

IN THE HISTORY OF ALL OF MODERN PRO SPORTS, how many players, maybe save Jordan, leave for two years and come back as anything other than likely a liability/front office blunder? What's the likely rate of return here?

And here's the cherry on top. Dude is a lousy defender, and that was when he was YOUNGER AND WAS ON AN NBA ROSTER. What do you think his defense looks like now?

If the Knicks were going to sign an aging player out of the league, at least sign a guy WHO COULD DEFEND HIS OWN WEIGHT when he played.

He has no trade value
He has no future value for the long term
The Knicks don't have a 2016 pick, period. It would be nice to start developing whatever young players they can
Given a labor war will erupt after this season, it would be nice to get in some development THIS YEAR before the rules might change and it might be harder for the Knicks to grab some of these young developmental guys.

Thanks for ignoring things like

- DEFENSE
- THE FUTURE
- THE LABOR IMPACT
- THE NEXT DRAFT
- NBA PRECEDENT
- BASIC ATTRITION DURING THE SEASON

For a team with arguably the WORST 15 man roster in the NBA last season, this is not the kind of move built towards future success. This is a luxury move that even a contender would mostly shy away from.

I've said it again and again, Phil Jackson is a rookie GM. The other GMs were groomed and had to wade through blood to make their bones in front offices around the league. While the young players this year might have been on an existing GM's radar for the last 4-5 years, don't expect Jackson to have that kind of deep player knowledge.

This move, like the Amundson and Thomas ones, were LAZY MOVES. Taking the path of least resistance. A younger and more dynamic and more seasoned GM would have a better working knowledge of this year young rookie/UDFA crop.

For what the roster was last year, the Knicks should be leading the NBA in mining the UDFA pool.

You really are something else. You think that every single time someone posts a response that their post must address every conceivable issue and make a worst case scenario. That's not realistic to expect. Perhaps for someone who only posts once in a while an tends to post negative drivel every time he does decide to join the conversation.

Anyone can sit back and point out what COULD go wrong with every player up and down the roster. Just because you made these negative points doesn't mean that's exactly how things will play out. There's always a CHANCE for injury in sports.

Jerian is going to be 23 when the season starts. He's a more mature rookie than your typical one and done young player. I'm sure he'll have some adjustments but that doesn't mean he won't be able to handle the minutes he'll be given. He's not going to be out there asked to carry the weight of the team on his own.

Afflalo may be on the decline or could just have been dealing with playing for 2 different teams in a short span of time and also injuring his shoulder. He's 29 going on 30, not 100.

Notice how you had to come up with issues with Jose, Jerian and Gallo in order to put Sasha into a major role? This is really some negative fear mongering. Sure it could happen but why would any team be in good shape if they were down 3 guards and had to rely on the 4th? Yes if that all happened this team would be in bad shape, but then any team that lost their top 3 guards would equally be in bad shape.

How about you bring up the lack of a 2016 pick again? Oh wait you did!!! Phil has stashed some talent so in essence this team isn't going to be empty handed in 2016 and in each of his drafts he's managed to pick up another pick and to take a look at UDFA's. I think you really need to relax on this particular point.

You keep making this statement over and over and over again..Age and maturity has nothing to do with being able to handle an 82 NBA season...It has everything to do with understanding the league and player tendencies, the travel, the speed of the game, the physical play, 4 games in 5 nights, the diet it takes to sustain, the proper workout that keeps your body for 82 games..82 games is a marathon and you won't understand what it takes until you experience it...The mental aspect...Some players can't cope or keep up...Thinking a rookie can do it just because of his age is just silly...


SOOOOO you think that Jerian Grant who has nothing but NBA players in his family has no idea about what to expect or how to prepare for an NBA season? You and Triple Threat are killing me with this stuff. Sure he's a human and anytime you do something for the 1st time it's gonna be a learning experience, but if any rookie ever came in with more of an idea of what to expect I can't believe there is anyone better prepared than Jerian.

The point is you can't bank on what a rookie will give you..

I don't know about banking on anything. I just think you ignored the fact that Jerian is an older rookie coming from a family with multiple NBA players who i'm sure will help him to be prepared for this initial season. Not many rookie players have those factors in their favor. Neither you nor Triple Threat seemed to take that into consideration.

Everyone will well aware of his family background and age..

nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
8/2/2015  5:02 PM
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
nixluva wrote:
blkexec is right about the fact that you don't necessarily have to be young and athletic to be successful in the Triangle. Especially if you're a low minute reserve off the bench. It's more about BB IQ and skill. As long as Vujacic can move and shoot he should be fine filling in. You don't have to be blazing fast or athletic to get the job done. I don't think Vujacic is anywhere near his prime self but then again we haven't really been able to watch him play. I can't imagine that he's any slower than Jose.

My guess is that he won't be expected to push the ball every time down the floor, if he's in there. I'm guessing he'll be used as the trailing guard to receive the Lag Pass. In any event his knowledge of the Triangle should help a great deal in practice and in games when he's called upon. We've got enough young guys and will likely add a couple more.


Again, no offense ( but I guess I don't care if you are offended), but you still have no idea what you are talking about.

Jerian Grant - Rookie. Let me repeat that again, since so many seem to simply avoid the issue - THE KID IS A ROOKIE. Rookies do things like hit a rookie wall in terms of endurance throughout the longer NBA season compared to college, they tend to struggle early on defensively, they tend to struggle with the speed of the game, many have foul trouble since they don't have an established rep and rapport with the existing refs, they don't know all the tendencies of most other players in the league like veterans do, there are a host of reasons why the future can look bright for Grant over the long haul, but that it's never a great idea to rely on a rookie floor general.

Aaron Affalo - Has been declining the past few years, at the part of his career where injuries could start to be a concern

Langston Galloway - Did not even have a full rookie year last year. Still subject to rookie/sophomore growing pains.

Jose Calderon - At the age where he is prone to injury and needs to be paced for minutes and only used in certain matchups and situations because of the defensive liability issue.

Calderon gets winged up and Grant or Galloway hit a developmental roadbump and now Vujacic is part of the rotation.

IN THE HISTORY OF ALL OF MODERN PRO SPORTS, how many players, maybe save Jordan, leave for two years and come back as anything other than likely a liability/front office blunder? What's the likely rate of return here?

And here's the cherry on top. Dude is a lousy defender, and that was when he was YOUNGER AND WAS ON AN NBA ROSTER. What do you think his defense looks like now?

If the Knicks were going to sign an aging player out of the league, at least sign a guy WHO COULD DEFEND HIS OWN WEIGHT when he played.

He has no trade value
He has no future value for the long term
The Knicks don't have a 2016 pick, period. It would be nice to start developing whatever young players they can
Given a labor war will erupt after this season, it would be nice to get in some development THIS YEAR before the rules might change and it might be harder for the Knicks to grab some of these young developmental guys.

Thanks for ignoring things like

- DEFENSE
- THE FUTURE
- THE LABOR IMPACT
- THE NEXT DRAFT
- NBA PRECEDENT
- BASIC ATTRITION DURING THE SEASON

For a team with arguably the WORST 15 man roster in the NBA last season, this is not the kind of move built towards future success. This is a luxury move that even a contender would mostly shy away from.

I've said it again and again, Phil Jackson is a rookie GM. The other GMs were groomed and had to wade through blood to make their bones in front offices around the league. While the young players this year might have been on an existing GM's radar for the last 4-5 years, don't expect Jackson to have that kind of deep player knowledge.

This move, like the Amundson and Thomas ones, were LAZY MOVES. Taking the path of least resistance. A younger and more dynamic and more seasoned GM would have a better working knowledge of this year young rookie/UDFA crop.

For what the roster was last year, the Knicks should be leading the NBA in mining the UDFA pool.

You really are something else. You think that every single time someone posts a response that their post must address every conceivable issue and make a worst case scenario. That's not realistic to expect. Perhaps for someone who only posts once in a while an tends to post negative drivel every time he does decide to join the conversation.

Anyone can sit back and point out what COULD go wrong with every player up and down the roster. Just because you made these negative points doesn't mean that's exactly how things will play out. There's always a CHANCE for injury in sports.

Jerian is going to be 23 when the season starts. He's a more mature rookie than your typical one and done young player. I'm sure he'll have some adjustments but that doesn't mean he won't be able to handle the minutes he'll be given. He's not going to be out there asked to carry the weight of the team on his own.

Afflalo may be on the decline or could just have been dealing with playing for 2 different teams in a short span of time and also injuring his shoulder. He's 29 going on 30, not 100.

Notice how you had to come up with issues with Jose, Jerian and Gallo in order to put Sasha into a major role? This is really some negative fear mongering. Sure it could happen but why would any team be in good shape if they were down 3 guards and had to rely on the 4th? Yes if that all happened this team would be in bad shape, but then any team that lost their top 3 guards would equally be in bad shape.

How about you bring up the lack of a 2016 pick again? Oh wait you did!!! Phil has stashed some talent so in essence this team isn't going to be empty handed in 2016 and in each of his drafts he's managed to pick up another pick and to take a look at UDFA's. I think you really need to relax on this particular point.

You keep making this statement over and over and over again..Age and maturity has nothing to do with being able to handle an 82 NBA season...It has everything to do with understanding the league and player tendencies, the travel, the speed of the game, the physical play, 4 games in 5 nights, the diet it takes to sustain, the proper workout that keeps your body for 82 games..82 games is a marathon and you won't understand what it takes until you experience it...The mental aspect...Some players can't cope or keep up...Thinking a rookie can do it just because of his age is just silly...


SOOOOO you think that Jerian Grant who has nothing but NBA players in his family has no idea about what to expect or how to prepare for an NBA season? You and Triple Threat are killing me with this stuff. Sure he's a human and anytime you do something for the 1st time it's gonna be a learning experience, but if any rookie ever came in with more of an idea of what to expect I can't believe there is anyone better prepared than Jerian.

The point is you can't bank on what a rookie will give you..

I don't know about banking on anything. I just think you ignored the fact that Jerian is an older rookie coming from a family with multiple NBA players who i'm sure will help him to be prepared for this initial season. Not many rookie players have those factors in their favor. Neither you nor Triple Threat seemed to take that into consideration.

Everyone will well aware of his family background and age..

And yet you ignored the possibility of it having a positive impact on his ability to handle the experience of his rookie season. Thats a hell of a support system for a rookie in addition to him being older than the typical rookie. Doesn't guarantee he'll have a good rookie season but it helps set him up better than if it wasn't the case.

holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

8/2/2015  5:04 PM
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
nixluva wrote:
blkexec is right about the fact that you don't necessarily have to be young and athletic to be successful in the Triangle. Especially if you're a low minute reserve off the bench. It's more about BB IQ and skill. As long as Vujacic can move and shoot he should be fine filling in. You don't have to be blazing fast or athletic to get the job done. I don't think Vujacic is anywhere near his prime self but then again we haven't really been able to watch him play. I can't imagine that he's any slower than Jose.

My guess is that he won't be expected to push the ball every time down the floor, if he's in there. I'm guessing he'll be used as the trailing guard to receive the Lag Pass. In any event his knowledge of the Triangle should help a great deal in practice and in games when he's called upon. We've got enough young guys and will likely add a couple more.


Again, no offense ( but I guess I don't care if you are offended), but you still have no idea what you are talking about.

Jerian Grant - Rookie. Let me repeat that again, since so many seem to simply avoid the issue - THE KID IS A ROOKIE. Rookies do things like hit a rookie wall in terms of endurance throughout the longer NBA season compared to college, they tend to struggle early on defensively, they tend to struggle with the speed of the game, many have foul trouble since they don't have an established rep and rapport with the existing refs, they don't know all the tendencies of most other players in the league like veterans do, there are a host of reasons why the future can look bright for Grant over the long haul, but that it's never a great idea to rely on a rookie floor general.

Aaron Affalo - Has been declining the past few years, at the part of his career where injuries could start to be a concern

Langston Galloway - Did not even have a full rookie year last year. Still subject to rookie/sophomore growing pains.

Jose Calderon - At the age where he is prone to injury and needs to be paced for minutes and only used in certain matchups and situations because of the defensive liability issue.

Calderon gets winged up and Grant or Galloway hit a developmental roadbump and now Vujacic is part of the rotation.

IN THE HISTORY OF ALL OF MODERN PRO SPORTS, how many players, maybe save Jordan, leave for two years and come back as anything other than likely a liability/front office blunder? What's the likely rate of return here?

And here's the cherry on top. Dude is a lousy defender, and that was when he was YOUNGER AND WAS ON AN NBA ROSTER. What do you think his defense looks like now?

If the Knicks were going to sign an aging player out of the league, at least sign a guy WHO COULD DEFEND HIS OWN WEIGHT when he played.

He has no trade value
He has no future value for the long term
The Knicks don't have a 2016 pick, period. It would be nice to start developing whatever young players they can
Given a labor war will erupt after this season, it would be nice to get in some development THIS YEAR before the rules might change and it might be harder for the Knicks to grab some of these young developmental guys.

Thanks for ignoring things like

- DEFENSE
- THE FUTURE
- THE LABOR IMPACT
- THE NEXT DRAFT
- NBA PRECEDENT
- BASIC ATTRITION DURING THE SEASON

For a team with arguably the WORST 15 man roster in the NBA last season, this is not the kind of move built towards future success. This is a luxury move that even a contender would mostly shy away from.

I've said it again and again, Phil Jackson is a rookie GM. The other GMs were groomed and had to wade through blood to make their bones in front offices around the league. While the young players this year might have been on an existing GM's radar for the last 4-5 years, don't expect Jackson to have that kind of deep player knowledge.

This move, like the Amundson and Thomas ones, were LAZY MOVES. Taking the path of least resistance. A younger and more dynamic and more seasoned GM would have a better working knowledge of this year young rookie/UDFA crop.

For what the roster was last year, the Knicks should be leading the NBA in mining the UDFA pool.

You really are something else. You think that every single time someone posts a response that their post must address every conceivable issue and make a worst case scenario. That's not realistic to expect. Perhaps for someone who only posts once in a while an tends to post negative drivel every time he does decide to join the conversation.

Anyone can sit back and point out what COULD go wrong with every player up and down the roster. Just because you made these negative points doesn't mean that's exactly how things will play out. There's always a CHANCE for injury in sports.

Jerian is going to be 23 when the season starts. He's a more mature rookie than your typical one and done young player. I'm sure he'll have some adjustments but that doesn't mean he won't be able to handle the minutes he'll be given. He's not going to be out there asked to carry the weight of the team on his own.

Afflalo may be on the decline or could just have been dealing with playing for 2 different teams in a short span of time and also injuring his shoulder. He's 29 going on 30, not 100.

Notice how you had to come up with issues with Jose, Jerian and Gallo in order to put Sasha into a major role? This is really some negative fear mongering. Sure it could happen but why would any team be in good shape if they were down 3 guards and had to rely on the 4th? Yes if that all happened this team would be in bad shape, but then any team that lost their top 3 guards would equally be in bad shape.

How about you bring up the lack of a 2016 pick again? Oh wait you did!!! Phil has stashed some talent so in essence this team isn't going to be empty handed in 2016 and in each of his drafts he's managed to pick up another pick and to take a look at UDFA's. I think you really need to relax on this particular point.

You keep making this statement over and over and over again..Age and maturity has nothing to do with being able to handle an 82 NBA season...It has everything to do with understanding the league and player tendencies, the travel, the speed of the game, the physical play, 4 games in 5 nights, the diet it takes to sustain, the proper workout that keeps your body for 82 games..82 games is a marathon and you won't understand what it takes until you experience it...The mental aspect...Some players can't cope or keep up...Thinking a rookie can do it just because of his age is just silly...


SOOOOO you think that Jerian Grant who has nothing but NBA players in his family has no idea about what to expect or how to prepare for an NBA season? You and Triple Threat are killing me with this stuff. Sure he's a human and anytime you do something for the 1st time it's gonna be a learning experience, but if any rookie ever came in with more of an idea of what to expect I can't believe there is anyone better prepared than Jerian.

The point is you can't bank on what a rookie will give you..

I don't know about banking on anything. I just think you ignored the fact that Jerian is an older rookie coming from a family with multiple NBA players who i'm sure will help him to be prepared for this initial season. Not many rookie players have those factors in their favor. Neither you nor Triple Threat seemed to take that into consideration.

Everyone will well aware of his family background and age..

And yet you ignored the possibility of it having a positive impact on his ability to handle the experience of his rookie season. Thats a hell of a support system for a rookie in addition to him being older than the typical rookie. Doesn't guarantee he'll have a good rookie season but it helps set him up better than if it wasn't the case.


As you dance around the issue..That is the whole point isn't it..You can't guarantee what he will do as a rookie...
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
8/2/2015  5:59 PM
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
nixluva wrote:
blkexec is right about the fact that you don't necessarily have to be young and athletic to be successful in the Triangle. Especially if you're a low minute reserve off the bench. It's more about BB IQ and skill. As long as Vujacic can move and shoot he should be fine filling in. You don't have to be blazing fast or athletic to get the job done. I don't think Vujacic is anywhere near his prime self but then again we haven't really been able to watch him play. I can't imagine that he's any slower than Jose.

My guess is that he won't be expected to push the ball every time down the floor, if he's in there. I'm guessing he'll be used as the trailing guard to receive the Lag Pass. In any event his knowledge of the Triangle should help a great deal in practice and in games when he's called upon. We've got enough young guys and will likely add a couple more.


Again, no offense ( but I guess I don't care if you are offended), but you still have no idea what you are talking about.

Jerian Grant - Rookie. Let me repeat that again, since so many seem to simply avoid the issue - THE KID IS A ROOKIE. Rookies do things like hit a rookie wall in terms of endurance throughout the longer NBA season compared to college, they tend to struggle early on defensively, they tend to struggle with the speed of the game, many have foul trouble since they don't have an established rep and rapport with the existing refs, they don't know all the tendencies of most other players in the league like veterans do, there are a host of reasons why the future can look bright for Grant over the long haul, but that it's never a great idea to rely on a rookie floor general.

Aaron Affalo - Has been declining the past few years, at the part of his career where injuries could start to be a concern

Langston Galloway - Did not even have a full rookie year last year. Still subject to rookie/sophomore growing pains.

Jose Calderon - At the age where he is prone to injury and needs to be paced for minutes and only used in certain matchups and situations because of the defensive liability issue.

Calderon gets winged up and Grant or Galloway hit a developmental roadbump and now Vujacic is part of the rotation.

IN THE HISTORY OF ALL OF MODERN PRO SPORTS, how many players, maybe save Jordan, leave for two years and come back as anything other than likely a liability/front office blunder? What's the likely rate of return here?

And here's the cherry on top. Dude is a lousy defender, and that was when he was YOUNGER AND WAS ON AN NBA ROSTER. What do you think his defense looks like now?

If the Knicks were going to sign an aging player out of the league, at least sign a guy WHO COULD DEFEND HIS OWN WEIGHT when he played.

He has no trade value
He has no future value for the long term
The Knicks don't have a 2016 pick, period. It would be nice to start developing whatever young players they can
Given a labor war will erupt after this season, it would be nice to get in some development THIS YEAR before the rules might change and it might be harder for the Knicks to grab some of these young developmental guys.

Thanks for ignoring things like

- DEFENSE
- THE FUTURE
- THE LABOR IMPACT
- THE NEXT DRAFT
- NBA PRECEDENT
- BASIC ATTRITION DURING THE SEASON

For a team with arguably the WORST 15 man roster in the NBA last season, this is not the kind of move built towards future success. This is a luxury move that even a contender would mostly shy away from.

I've said it again and again, Phil Jackson is a rookie GM. The other GMs were groomed and had to wade through blood to make their bones in front offices around the league. While the young players this year might have been on an existing GM's radar for the last 4-5 years, don't expect Jackson to have that kind of deep player knowledge.

This move, like the Amundson and Thomas ones, were LAZY MOVES. Taking the path of least resistance. A younger and more dynamic and more seasoned GM would have a better working knowledge of this year young rookie/UDFA crop.

For what the roster was last year, the Knicks should be leading the NBA in mining the UDFA pool.

You really are something else. You think that every single time someone posts a response that their post must address every conceivable issue and make a worst case scenario. That's not realistic to expect. Perhaps for someone who only posts once in a while an tends to post negative drivel every time he does decide to join the conversation.

Anyone can sit back and point out what COULD go wrong with every player up and down the roster. Just because you made these negative points doesn't mean that's exactly how things will play out. There's always a CHANCE for injury in sports.

Jerian is going to be 23 when the season starts. He's a more mature rookie than your typical one and done young player. I'm sure he'll have some adjustments but that doesn't mean he won't be able to handle the minutes he'll be given. He's not going to be out there asked to carry the weight of the team on his own.

Afflalo may be on the decline or could just have been dealing with playing for 2 different teams in a short span of time and also injuring his shoulder. He's 29 going on 30, not 100.

Notice how you had to come up with issues with Jose, Jerian and Gallo in order to put Sasha into a major role? This is really some negative fear mongering. Sure it could happen but why would any team be in good shape if they were down 3 guards and had to rely on the 4th? Yes if that all happened this team would be in bad shape, but then any team that lost their top 3 guards would equally be in bad shape.

How about you bring up the lack of a 2016 pick again? Oh wait you did!!! Phil has stashed some talent so in essence this team isn't going to be empty handed in 2016 and in each of his drafts he's managed to pick up another pick and to take a look at UDFA's. I think you really need to relax on this particular point.

You keep making this statement over and over and over again..Age and maturity has nothing to do with being able to handle an 82 NBA season...It has everything to do with understanding the league and player tendencies, the travel, the speed of the game, the physical play, 4 games in 5 nights, the diet it takes to sustain, the proper workout that keeps your body for 82 games..82 games is a marathon and you won't understand what it takes until you experience it...The mental aspect...Some players can't cope or keep up...Thinking a rookie can do it just because of his age is just silly...


SOOOOO you think that Jerian Grant who has nothing but NBA players in his family has no idea about what to expect or how to prepare for an NBA season? You and Triple Threat are killing me with this stuff. Sure he's a human and anytime you do something for the 1st time it's gonna be a learning experience, but if any rookie ever came in with more of an idea of what to expect I can't believe there is anyone better prepared than Jerian.

The point is you can't bank on what a rookie will give you..

I don't know about banking on anything. I just think you ignored the fact that Jerian is an older rookie coming from a family with multiple NBA players who i'm sure will help him to be prepared for this initial season. Not many rookie players have those factors in their favor. Neither you nor Triple Threat seemed to take that into consideration.

Everyone will well aware of his family background and age..

And yet you ignored the possibility of it having a positive impact on his ability to handle the experience of his rookie season. Thats a hell of a support system for a rookie in addition to him being older than the typical rookie. Doesn't guarantee he'll have a good rookie season but it helps set him up better than if it wasn't the case.


As you dance around the issue..That is the whole point isn't it..You can't guarantee what he will do as a rookie...

I haven't guaranteed anything. Simply making the point that Jerian may be better able to handle the usual Rookie pitfalls given his age, Maturity and the fact that his family is full of NBA players who can help him navigate the long NBA season. IMO there's less risk of issues with Jerian than your typical 19 yr old rookie who has no idea, may not have the same support system and isn't mentally or physically ready.
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

8/2/2015  6:22 PM
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
nixluva wrote:
blkexec is right about the fact that you don't necessarily have to be young and athletic to be successful in the Triangle. Especially if you're a low minute reserve off the bench. It's more about BB IQ and skill. As long as Vujacic can move and shoot he should be fine filling in. You don't have to be blazing fast or athletic to get the job done. I don't think Vujacic is anywhere near his prime self but then again we haven't really been able to watch him play. I can't imagine that he's any slower than Jose.

My guess is that he won't be expected to push the ball every time down the floor, if he's in there. I'm guessing he'll be used as the trailing guard to receive the Lag Pass. In any event his knowledge of the Triangle should help a great deal in practice and in games when he's called upon. We've got enough young guys and will likely add a couple more.


Again, no offense ( but I guess I don't care if you are offended), but you still have no idea what you are talking about.

Jerian Grant - Rookie. Let me repeat that again, since so many seem to simply avoid the issue - THE KID IS A ROOKIE. Rookies do things like hit a rookie wall in terms of endurance throughout the longer NBA season compared to college, they tend to struggle early on defensively, they tend to struggle with the speed of the game, many have foul trouble since they don't have an established rep and rapport with the existing refs, they don't know all the tendencies of most other players in the league like veterans do, there are a host of reasons why the future can look bright for Grant over the long haul, but that it's never a great idea to rely on a rookie floor general.

Aaron Affalo - Has been declining the past few years, at the part of his career where injuries could start to be a concern

Langston Galloway - Did not even have a full rookie year last year. Still subject to rookie/sophomore growing pains.

Jose Calderon - At the age where he is prone to injury and needs to be paced for minutes and only used in certain matchups and situations because of the defensive liability issue.

Calderon gets winged up and Grant or Galloway hit a developmental roadbump and now Vujacic is part of the rotation.

IN THE HISTORY OF ALL OF MODERN PRO SPORTS, how many players, maybe save Jordan, leave for two years and come back as anything other than likely a liability/front office blunder? What's the likely rate of return here?

And here's the cherry on top. Dude is a lousy defender, and that was when he was YOUNGER AND WAS ON AN NBA ROSTER. What do you think his defense looks like now?

If the Knicks were going to sign an aging player out of the league, at least sign a guy WHO COULD DEFEND HIS OWN WEIGHT when he played.

He has no trade value
He has no future value for the long term
The Knicks don't have a 2016 pick, period. It would be nice to start developing whatever young players they can
Given a labor war will erupt after this season, it would be nice to get in some development THIS YEAR before the rules might change and it might be harder for the Knicks to grab some of these young developmental guys.

Thanks for ignoring things like

- DEFENSE
- THE FUTURE
- THE LABOR IMPACT
- THE NEXT DRAFT
- NBA PRECEDENT
- BASIC ATTRITION DURING THE SEASON

For a team with arguably the WORST 15 man roster in the NBA last season, this is not the kind of move built towards future success. This is a luxury move that even a contender would mostly shy away from.

I've said it again and again, Phil Jackson is a rookie GM. The other GMs were groomed and had to wade through blood to make their bones in front offices around the league. While the young players this year might have been on an existing GM's radar for the last 4-5 years, don't expect Jackson to have that kind of deep player knowledge.

This move, like the Amundson and Thomas ones, were LAZY MOVES. Taking the path of least resistance. A younger and more dynamic and more seasoned GM would have a better working knowledge of this year young rookie/UDFA crop.

For what the roster was last year, the Knicks should be leading the NBA in mining the UDFA pool.

You really are something else. You think that every single time someone posts a response that their post must address every conceivable issue and make a worst case scenario. That's not realistic to expect. Perhaps for someone who only posts once in a while an tends to post negative drivel every time he does decide to join the conversation.

Anyone can sit back and point out what COULD go wrong with every player up and down the roster. Just because you made these negative points doesn't mean that's exactly how things will play out. There's always a CHANCE for injury in sports.

Jerian is going to be 23 when the season starts. He's a more mature rookie than your typical one and done young player. I'm sure he'll have some adjustments but that doesn't mean he won't be able to handle the minutes he'll be given. He's not going to be out there asked to carry the weight of the team on his own.

Afflalo may be on the decline or could just have been dealing with playing for 2 different teams in a short span of time and also injuring his shoulder. He's 29 going on 30, not 100.

Notice how you had to come up with issues with Jose, Jerian and Gallo in order to put Sasha into a major role? This is really some negative fear mongering. Sure it could happen but why would any team be in good shape if they were down 3 guards and had to rely on the 4th? Yes if that all happened this team would be in bad shape, but then any team that lost their top 3 guards would equally be in bad shape.

How about you bring up the lack of a 2016 pick again? Oh wait you did!!! Phil has stashed some talent so in essence this team isn't going to be empty handed in 2016 and in each of his drafts he's managed to pick up another pick and to take a look at UDFA's. I think you really need to relax on this particular point.

You keep making this statement over and over and over again..Age and maturity has nothing to do with being able to handle an 82 NBA season...It has everything to do with understanding the league and player tendencies, the travel, the speed of the game, the physical play, 4 games in 5 nights, the diet it takes to sustain, the proper workout that keeps your body for 82 games..82 games is a marathon and you won't understand what it takes until you experience it...The mental aspect...Some players can't cope or keep up...Thinking a rookie can do it just because of his age is just silly...


SOOOOO you think that Jerian Grant who has nothing but NBA players in his family has no idea about what to expect or how to prepare for an NBA season? You and Triple Threat are killing me with this stuff. Sure he's a human and anytime you do something for the 1st time it's gonna be a learning experience, but if any rookie ever came in with more of an idea of what to expect I can't believe there is anyone better prepared than Jerian.

The point is you can't bank on what a rookie will give you..

I don't know about banking on anything. I just think you ignored the fact that Jerian is an older rookie coming from a family with multiple NBA players who i'm sure will help him to be prepared for this initial season. Not many rookie players have those factors in their favor. Neither you nor Triple Threat seemed to take that into consideration.

Everyone will well aware of his family background and age..

And yet you ignored the possibility of it having a positive impact on his ability to handle the experience of his rookie season. Thats a hell of a support system for a rookie in addition to him being older than the typical rookie. Doesn't guarantee he'll have a good rookie season but it helps set him up better than if it wasn't the case.


As you dance around the issue..That is the whole point isn't it..You can't guarantee what he will do as a rookie...

I haven't guaranteed anything. Simply making the point that Jerian may be better able to handle the usual Rookie pitfalls given his age, Maturity and the fact that his family is full of NBA players who can help him navigate the long NBA season. IMO there's less risk of issues with Jerian than your typical 19 yr old rookie who has no idea, may not have the same support system and isn't mentally or physically ready.

I'm just repeating what you have said, don't go contradicting yourself for the sake of an argument...

nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
8/2/2015  8:10 PM
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
nixluva wrote:
blkexec is right about the fact that you don't necessarily have to be young and athletic to be successful in the Triangle. Especially if you're a low minute reserve off the bench. It's more about BB IQ and skill. As long as Vujacic can move and shoot he should be fine filling in. You don't have to be blazing fast or athletic to get the job done. I don't think Vujacic is anywhere near his prime self but then again we haven't really been able to watch him play. I can't imagine that he's any slower than Jose.

My guess is that he won't be expected to push the ball every time down the floor, if he's in there. I'm guessing he'll be used as the trailing guard to receive the Lag Pass. In any event his knowledge of the Triangle should help a great deal in practice and in games when he's called upon. We've got enough young guys and will likely add a couple more.


Again, no offense ( but I guess I don't care if you are offended), but you still have no idea what you are talking about.

Jerian Grant - Rookie. Let me repeat that again, since so many seem to simply avoid the issue - THE KID IS A ROOKIE. Rookies do things like hit a rookie wall in terms of endurance throughout the longer NBA season compared to college, they tend to struggle early on defensively, they tend to struggle with the speed of the game, many have foul trouble since they don't have an established rep and rapport with the existing refs, they don't know all the tendencies of most other players in the league like veterans do, there are a host of reasons why the future can look bright for Grant over the long haul, but that it's never a great idea to rely on a rookie floor general.

Aaron Affalo - Has been declining the past few years, at the part of his career where injuries could start to be a concern

Langston Galloway - Did not even have a full rookie year last year. Still subject to rookie/sophomore growing pains.

Jose Calderon - At the age where he is prone to injury and needs to be paced for minutes and only used in certain matchups and situations because of the defensive liability issue.

Calderon gets winged up and Grant or Galloway hit a developmental roadbump and now Vujacic is part of the rotation.

IN THE HISTORY OF ALL OF MODERN PRO SPORTS, how many players, maybe save Jordan, leave for two years and come back as anything other than likely a liability/front office blunder? What's the likely rate of return here?

And here's the cherry on top. Dude is a lousy defender, and that was when he was YOUNGER AND WAS ON AN NBA ROSTER. What do you think his defense looks like now?

If the Knicks were going to sign an aging player out of the league, at least sign a guy WHO COULD DEFEND HIS OWN WEIGHT when he played.

He has no trade value
He has no future value for the long term
The Knicks don't have a 2016 pick, period. It would be nice to start developing whatever young players they can
Given a labor war will erupt after this season, it would be nice to get in some development THIS YEAR before the rules might change and it might be harder for the Knicks to grab some of these young developmental guys.

Thanks for ignoring things like

- DEFENSE
- THE FUTURE
- THE LABOR IMPACT
- THE NEXT DRAFT
- NBA PRECEDENT
- BASIC ATTRITION DURING THE SEASON

For a team with arguably the WORST 15 man roster in the NBA last season, this is not the kind of move built towards future success. This is a luxury move that even a contender would mostly shy away from.

I've said it again and again, Phil Jackson is a rookie GM. The other GMs were groomed and had to wade through blood to make their bones in front offices around the league. While the young players this year might have been on an existing GM's radar for the last 4-5 years, don't expect Jackson to have that kind of deep player knowledge.

This move, like the Amundson and Thomas ones, were LAZY MOVES. Taking the path of least resistance. A younger and more dynamic and more seasoned GM would have a better working knowledge of this year young rookie/UDFA crop.

For what the roster was last year, the Knicks should be leading the NBA in mining the UDFA pool.

You really are something else. You think that every single time someone posts a response that their post must address every conceivable issue and make a worst case scenario. That's not realistic to expect. Perhaps for someone who only posts once in a while an tends to post negative drivel every time he does decide to join the conversation.

Anyone can sit back and point out what COULD go wrong with every player up and down the roster. Just because you made these negative points doesn't mean that's exactly how things will play out. There's always a CHANCE for injury in sports.

Jerian is going to be 23 when the season starts. He's a more mature rookie than your typical one and done young player. I'm sure he'll have some adjustments but that doesn't mean he won't be able to handle the minutes he'll be given. He's not going to be out there asked to carry the weight of the team on his own.

Afflalo may be on the decline or could just have been dealing with playing for 2 different teams in a short span of time and also injuring his shoulder. He's 29 going on 30, not 100.

Notice how you had to come up with issues with Jose, Jerian and Gallo in order to put Sasha into a major role? This is really some negative fear mongering. Sure it could happen but why would any team be in good shape if they were down 3 guards and had to rely on the 4th? Yes if that all happened this team would be in bad shape, but then any team that lost their top 3 guards would equally be in bad shape.

How about you bring up the lack of a 2016 pick again? Oh wait you did!!! Phil has stashed some talent so in essence this team isn't going to be empty handed in 2016 and in each of his drafts he's managed to pick up another pick and to take a look at UDFA's. I think you really need to relax on this particular point.

You keep making this statement over and over and over again..Age and maturity has nothing to do with being able to handle an 82 NBA season...It has everything to do with understanding the league and player tendencies, the travel, the speed of the game, the physical play, 4 games in 5 nights, the diet it takes to sustain, the proper workout that keeps your body for 82 games..82 games is a marathon and you won't understand what it takes until you experience it...The mental aspect...Some players can't cope or keep up...Thinking a rookie can do it just because of his age is just silly...


SOOOOO you think that Jerian Grant who has nothing but NBA players in his family has no idea about what to expect or how to prepare for an NBA season? You and Triple Threat are killing me with this stuff. Sure he's a human and anytime you do something for the 1st time it's gonna be a learning experience, but if any rookie ever came in with more of an idea of what to expect I can't believe there is anyone better prepared than Jerian.

The point is you can't bank on what a rookie will give you..

I don't know about banking on anything. I just think you ignored the fact that Jerian is an older rookie coming from a family with multiple NBA players who i'm sure will help him to be prepared for this initial season. Not many rookie players have those factors in their favor. Neither you nor Triple Threat seemed to take that into consideration.

Everyone will well aware of his family background and age..

And yet you ignored the possibility of it having a positive impact on his ability to handle the experience of his rookie season. Thats a hell of a support system for a rookie in addition to him being older than the typical rookie. Doesn't guarantee he'll have a good rookie season but it helps set him up better than if it wasn't the case.


As you dance around the issue..That is the whole point isn't it..You can't guarantee what he will do as a rookie...

I haven't guaranteed anything. Simply making the point that Jerian may be better able to handle the usual Rookie pitfalls given his age, Maturity and the fact that his family is full of NBA players who can help him navigate the long NBA season. IMO there's less risk of issues with Jerian than your typical 19 yr old rookie who has no idea, may not have the same support system and isn't mentally or physically ready.

I'm just repeating what you have said, don't go contradicting yourself for the sake of an argument...

Never guaranteed anything. You are doing what a lot of people tend to do when debating me. You assume that i'm saying all will be perfect just because i'm not predicting disaster. You are suggesting that I said something I never said. In the end this is really not much of an argument at this point. My issue with Triple Threat is that his post was full of mostly the negatives of what could go wrong with the roster. It could also work out better than that pessimistic take.

This isn't a team that is years into the process. This is going to be a year with some struggles since there are so many new pieces and key players trying to bounce back for down seasons. We also have some young players still learning. Still there is a lot to be positive about for the coming season. It's going to be very interesting to watch come together. This is why I think Phil is taking a chance on Vujacic. He's trying to cut back on the learning curve a bit. We know this isn't exactly a title team so those of us being positive about the team aren't suggesting this is some great roster, as other tend to assume we are just because we're not bashing the team at every turn.

knickscity
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8/2/2015  10:37 PM
If Sasha has a fully guaranteed deal he is certainly here to play. Honestly, I'd rather see him in the triangle than Calderon, as sasha has the experience and last I saw him used to be a decent defender.
nixluva
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8/3/2015  12:33 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
nixluva wrote:My issue with Triple Threat is that .....


.... he disagrees with you. Often.

Anyone you don't like or don't like their opinion, you call them "negative" or that they don't "get it" You condescend to them and disrespect their opinion.

At times, I have disagreements with what people say. I don't however discount their right to say it.

Most of the time, you have disagreements with what people should say or if they should say it all.

HUGE DIFFERENCE.

Some things to consider

- If Phil Jackson loves Vujacic's mentoring so much, WHY NOT HIRE HIM AS A COACH?

- Do you see most other rebuilding professional sports teams giving roster spots to guys out of their respective league and sport for two years? I mean ANY PROFESSIONAL SPORT. It doesn't happen often, most of the time, the end result is not positive.

I raise the level of discussion in every thread I enter.

You increase the amount of discussion in every thread you enter because usually it ends up someone trying to explain to you that, in regards to professional basketball and team building and things like the salary cap, you have no idea what you are talking about most of the time.

HUGE DIFFERENCE.

If you want to believe this is a good move, then it's your right and your opinion. Have at it. Go wild.

But feel free not to label me a "fear monger" because my viewpoint of the Knicks and how to build a team don't line up with yours.

If Phil Jackson takes a dump on a plate, you'll call it ice cream cake. The funny thing in all of this is if Phil Jackson turns around and cuts Sasha V and rips him in the press next week, odds are you'll have your pitchfork and torch out and spin your tune again.

Go ahead, nixluva, have a spoonful, I assure you, it is ice cream cake.


You are the one who started this BS. Don't try to come off like I just came out of nowhere and attacked you for no reason. You're the one who started this crap.

TripleThreat wrote:
nixluva wrote:
blkexec is right about the fact that you don't necessarily have to be young and athletic to be successful in the Triangle. Especially if you're a low minute reserve off the bench. It's more about BB IQ and skill. As long as Vujacic can move and shoot he should be fine filling in. You don't have to be blazing fast or athletic to get the job done. I don't think Vujacic is anywhere near his prime self but then again we haven't really been able to watch him play. I can't imagine that he's any slower than Jose.

My guess is that he won't be expected to push the ball every time down the floor, if he's in there. I'm guessing he'll be used as the trailing guard to receive the Lag Pass. In any event his knowledge of the Triangle should help a great deal in practice and in games when he's called upon. We've got enough young guys and will likely add a couple more.


Again, no offense ( but I guess I don't care if you are offended), but you still have no idea what you are talking about.

I was responding to your post because it was full of worst case scenarios and a totally pessimistic take on the players you mentioned and the team overall. Of course those bad things can happen, but there's no balance to your posts, which is why I can't take them seriously. You think everyone needs to make posts covering every conceivable impact this year and in the future. Who the F has time to address all these issues every time they post? Most people are just making simple points, not writing their F'n dissertation!!! You make some good points but then you always go overboard with the negativity.

TripleThreat wrote:Jerian Grant - Rookie. Let me repeat that again, since so many seem to simply avoid the issue - THE KID IS A ROOKIE. Rookies do things like hit a rookie wall in terms of endurance throughout the longer NBA season compared to college, they tend to struggle early on defensively, they tend to struggle with the speed of the game, many have foul trouble since they don't have an established rep and rapport with the existing refs, they don't know all the tendencies of most other players in the league like veterans do, there are a host of reasons why the future can look bright for Grant over the long haul, but that it's never a great idea to rely on a rookie floor general.

Aaron Affalo - Has been declining the past few years, at the part of his career where injuries could start to be a concern

Langston Galloway - Did not even have a full rookie year last year. Still subject to rookie/sophomore growing pains.

Jose Calderon - At the age where he is prone to injury and needs to be paced for minutes and only used in certain matchups and situations because of the defensive liability issue.

Calderon gets winged up and Grant or Galloway hit a developmental roadbump and now Vujacic is part of the rotation.

IN THE HISTORY OF ALL OF MODERN PRO SPORTS, how many players, maybe save Jordan, leave for two years and come back as anything other than likely a liability/front office blunder? What's the likely rate of return here?

And here's the cherry on top. Dude is a lousy defender, and that was when he was YOUNGER AND WAS ON AN NBA ROSTER. What do you think his defense looks like now?

If the Knicks were going to sign an aging player out of the league, at least sign a guy WHO COULD DEFEND HIS OWN WEIGHT when he played.

He has no trade value
He has no future value for the long term
The Knicks don't have a 2016 pick, period. It would be nice to start developing whatever young players they can
Given a labor war will erupt after this season, it would be nice to get in some development THIS YEAR before the rules might change and it might be harder for the Knicks to grab some of these young developmental guys.

Thanks for ignoring things like

- DEFENSE
- THE FUTURE
- THE LABOR IMPACT
- THE NEXT DRAFT
- NBA PRECEDENT
- BASIC ATTRITION DURING THE SEASON

For a team with arguably the WORST 15 man roster in the NBA last season, this is not the kind of move built towards future success. This is a luxury move that even a contender would mostly shy away from.

I've said it again and again, Phil Jackson is a rookie GM. The other GMs were groomed and had to wade through blood to make their bones in front offices around the league. While the young players this year might have been on an existing GM's radar for the last 4-5 years, don't expect Jackson to have that kind of deep player knowledge.

This move, like the Amundson and Thomas ones, were LAZY MOVES. Taking the path of least resistance. A younger and more dynamic and more seasoned GM would have a better working knowledge of this year young rookie/UDFA crop.

For what the roster was last year, the Knicks should be leading the NBA in mining the UDFA pool.

Knicks Talk With Sasha Vujacic

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