crzymdups wrote:

meloanyk wrote:

crzymdups wrote:This free agency predictions article has the Knicks signing Monroe, Afflalo and West at the estimated amounts of:

Monroe 2yr $30M
Afflalo 4yr $44M
West 2yr $12M

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/6/30/8868203/nba-free-agency-predictions-kevin-love-lamarcus-aldridge

For 4/$40 I would sign an up and comer in 22 y/o Harris. Think he gets more though

Harris is pursuing max offer sheets. And he might get them. He's one of only 9 nba players in history to average 17ppg 6rpg before the age of 22yrs.

I forgot about Harris...he is definitely the type of player we need to target. He is young, from LI, friends with Melo and we have plenty of minutes to offer...i would go after him....

Uptown wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Overpaying because you're a bad team is a good way to make sure you stay bad. We need smart deals. If they're small deals and we gradually improve and become a little more attractive to FAs each year, that's better than overpaying and being bad long-term.

Not endorsing it, its just an obvious option when you are the losing team and you are vying for the services of a top flight free agent and you are competing against a winning team. With the salary cap explosion, i think most of these FA are looking for 2 yr deals with an opt out anyway...with that said, i wouldnt over pay for Afflalo, etc....but again, in our situation, its an option...not a good one though, i agree...

BRIGGS wrote:

VCoug wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

VCoug wrote:Everyone's talking about the MLE but we don't have it because we'll be under the cap. The only exception we could have is the room exception which is something like $2M. The MLE and the TPEs will all be gone tomorrow when we go under the cap.

We get the mid-level once we use up the cap room. The Heat did it in 2010 - they signed Mike Miller to the MLE after signing their big fish.

That's not true and no they didn't.

vcoug if we fill our cap space up can we use the TPE in a S+T with Minnesota--for example they sign the Euro PF to a 3 year 18mm$ deal--deal starts at 5.75(our top tpe) and we throw in 2 2's

The TPEs from last year expire when FA starts tomorrow morning.

yellowboy90 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

VCoug wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

VCoug wrote:Everyone's talking about the MLE but we don't have it because we'll be under the cap. The only exception we could have is the room exception which is something like $2M. The MLE and the TPEs will all be gone tomorrow when we go under the cap.

We get the mid-level once we use up the cap room. The Heat did it in 2010 - they signed Mike Miller to the MLE after signing their big fish.

That's not true and no they didn't.

vcoug if we fill our cap space up can we use the TPE in a S+T with Minnesota--for example they sign the Euro PF to a 3 year 18mm$ deal--deal starts at 5.75(our top tpe) and we throw in 2 2's

The TPEs from last year expire when FA starts tomorrow morning.

I understand that they become meaningless as soon as we are under the cap, but thought they could be used later this year if we were over the cap and wanted to take on a contract.

yellowboy90 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

VCoug wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

VCoug wrote:Everyone's talking about the MLE but we don't have it because we'll be under the cap. The only exception we could have is the room exception which is something like $2M. The MLE and the TPEs will all be gone tomorrow when we go under the cap.

We get the mid-level once we use up the cap room. The Heat did it in 2010 - they signed Mike Miller to the MLE after signing their big fish.

That's not true and no they didn't.

vcoug if we fill our cap space up can we use the TPE in a S+T with Minnesota--for example they sign the Euro PF to a 3 year 18mm$ deal--deal starts at 5.75(our top tpe) and we throw in 2 2's

The TPEs from last year expire when FA starts tomorrow morning.

Actually they dont--they last 1 year from acquisition. So we can do a deal like I outlined. Minnesota can sign the Euro to a 3 year 18mm $ contract and trade him to us as long as our cap space is full.

They last a calendar year at maximum – Trade exceptions last up to one year after the trade that created it was approved by the league office, unless that anniversary falls on a weekend or holiday (then the team gets until the next business day.)

They can only be used to acquire players under contract – A team cannot sign a free agent using a trade exception. However, it can be used in a sign and trade, though that would require the participation of the player’s previous team and that team being able to sign said player to the agreed upon contract. This last note became important in the case of Shaun Livingston this week – since the Nets do not have the ability to sign Livingston to a full Mid-Level deal like he agreed to with the Warriors, he cannot be signed and traded into Golden State’s trade exception because he could not be signed by Brooklyn to that contact in the first place.

A trade exception cannot be combined with another player or exception to acquire a more expensive player – To me, the easiest way to think about each trade exception is as a bank account that you cannot add money back into. You can take some out here and there as long as the balance never gets below zero. The important difference from a bank account is the separation – trade exceptions are each separate assets that can only acquire a player or players who make the same amount or less than the value of that specific exception itself plus $100,000. A $10 million TPE and a $5 million player or exception cannot be used in concert to get a $14 million player, for example. This same logic applies to all exceptions, so teams cannot combine their Mid-Level and a player to get someone for more money or add two trade exceptions together to pick up a player with a higher salary than either one.

Similarly, they are generated separately – The best example of this comes from Golden State’s trade with Utah last summer to clear space for Andre Iguodala. For that part of the huge transaction, the Warriors traded Richard Jefferson, Andris Biedrins, and Brandon Rush into Utah’s cap space. This did not give the Warriors one huge exception – it instead yielded three trade exceptions in the amounts of the salaries for the three players involved. This nuance protects the league from teams creating what I call a Voltron exception, where a series of minor moves could give them a hugely valuable larger single exception that could then be used to add a major piece. Separating trade exceptions makes for a more fair solution that creative teams can still use effectively.

They can also come from an unbalanced trade – While many think of trade exceptions as stemming from transactions where one player gets sent into another team’s cap or exception, they can also be created in trades with different salaried pieces going from one place to another. In those cases, the team trading away a higher salary than they receive secures a trade exception in the amount of the difference as long as they are not under the cap. (This is how the Knicks got a trade exception the size of Raymond Felton’s contract in their recent trade with the Mavericks.)

However, once generated a trade exception can be partially used or split– Here, what I talked about before with thinking about trade exceptions as bank accounts that you cannot add money back into makes even more sense. Like a bank account, teams can take some out here and there as long as the balance never gets below zero. If a team has an $8 million trade exception, they could get one $7.5 million or $8 million player or two $4 million guys during those twelve months. Whenever part of an exception gets used, any remainder sticks around until it expires. Remember from above that the player must fully fit within a single exception, so a team cannot use $600,000 from one exception and $400,000 from another source to acquire a $1 million salary.

Despite all that, creative GM’s can use players and trade exceptions together in some circumstances – While trades with aggregated salaries cannot fit under this umbrella, teams can format trades to make this work. As an example, let’s say the Warriors want Taj Gibson but do not want to trade enough salary to make it work directly as a player for player(s) swap. They could use part of their trade exception from sending Richard Jefferson to Utah last July to acquire Gibson and then send something cheaper like Harrison Barnes to Chicago.

The functional purpose of trade exceptions

Trade exceptions allow for additional roster flexibility in some important situations. For example, they provide an amazing way for teams butting up against the cap or tax to add another piece or two. Additionally, since trade exceptions require the participation of another team, they encourage negotiation between franchises and can help facilitate mutually beneficial exchanges of contracts.

More specifically, trade exceptions provide an advantage for teams with owners willing to spend. Similar to the amnesty provision, trade exceptions only truly become useful as teams get closer to the cap and/or luxury tax and only convert from riskless asset to actual dollars when utilized. Both Oklahoma City and Golden State had the ability to use trade exceptions at any point last season to add another piece that would have carried the added price of pushing them into the luxury tax, though the Warriors were hard capped at the apron which sits $4 million over the luxury tax line. Whether due to that impact or the lack of a worthwhile player to use all or part of it on, both trade exceptions went largely unused during the 2013-14 season and could expire in full or in part shortly after the July moratorium.

The value of a trade exception depends almost entirely on it actually being used since they cannot be traded in any way. They can be incredibly effective when deployed properly and functionally useless in other situations.

Important active trade exceptions

[AUTHOR’S NOTE: Keep in mind that the figures below are as reported by sources including Basketball Insiders and ShamSports. The actual numbers may vary in some circumstances.]

Soon to Expire (Before August 1) Trade Exceptions

Boston – $10,275,136 (for Paul Pierce) – Expires July 14

Golden State – $9,835,920 (for Richard Jefferson) – Expires July 10

Oklahoma City – $6,500,000 (for Kevin Martin) – Expires July 11

LA Clippers – $2,626,474 (for Eric Bledsoe) – Expires July 10

Denver – (for Andre Iguodala) – Expires July 10 – Mostly used to acquire Arron Afflalo on draft night

Notable Longer-Lasting Trade Exceptions

Chicago – (for Luol Deng) – Expires January 6, 2015 – Mostly used to acquire Anthony Randolph on draft night in the larger trade with Denver

Indiana – $4,281,921 (for Danny Granger) – Expires February 20, 2015

Memphis- $3,135,000 (for Jerryd Bayless) – Expires January 6, 2015

Miami- $2,200,000 (for Joel Anthony) – Expires January 15, 2015

Sacramento – $2,424,687 (for Marcus Thornton) – Expires February 19, 2015

Toronto- $4,583,432 (for Rudy Gay) – Expires December 9, 2014

If you have any further questions on trade exceptions, feel free to ask them here or hit me up on Twitter @DannyLeroux
Asked and Answered, Collective Bargaining Agreement, Salary Cap trade exception
Daniel Leroux

Daniel Leroux has covered the Golden State Warriors for five seasons for RealGM, starting during his final year of law school. He was born and raised in the Bay Area and has a bachelor's in Economics from UCLA (Go Bruins!) and a law degree from UC Hastings college of the law. He also hosts the RealGM Radio podcast.
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BRIGGS wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

VCoug wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

VCoug wrote:Everyone's talking about the MLE but we don't have it because we'll be under the cap. The only exception we could have is the room exception which is something like $2M. The MLE and the TPEs will all be gone tomorrow when we go under the cap.

We get the mid-level once we use up the cap room. The Heat did it in 2010 - they signed Mike Miller to the MLE after signing their big fish.

That's not true and no they didn't.

vcoug if we fill our cap space up can we use the TPE in a S+T with Minnesota--for example they sign the Euro PF to a 3 year 18mm$ deal--deal starts at 5.75(our top tpe) and we throw in 2 2's

The TPEs from last year expire when FA starts tomorrow morning.

Actually they dont--they last 1 year from acquisition. So we can do a deal like I outlined. Minnesota can sign the Euro to a 3 year 18mm $ contract and trade him to us as long as our cap space is full.

They last a calendar year at maximum – Trade exceptions last up to one year after the trade that created it was approved by the league office, unless that anniversary falls on a weekend or holiday (then the team gets until the next business day.)

They can only be used to acquire players under contract – A team cannot sign a free agent using a trade exception. However, it can be used in a sign and trade, though that would require the participation of the player’s previous team and that team being able to sign said player to the agreed upon contract. This last note became important in the case of Shaun Livingston this week – since the Nets do not have the ability to sign Livingston to a full Mid-Level deal like he agreed to with the Warriors, he cannot be signed and traded into Golden State’s trade exception because he could not be signed by Brooklyn to that contact in the first place.

A trade exception cannot be combined with another player or exception to acquire a more expensive player – To me, the easiest way to think about each trade exception is as a bank account that you cannot add money back into. You can take some out here and there as long as the balance never gets below zero. The important difference from a bank account is the separation – trade exceptions are each separate assets that can only acquire a player or players who make the same amount or less than the value of that specific exception itself plus $100,000. A $10 million TPE and a $5 million player or exception cannot be used in concert to get a $14 million player, for example. This same logic applies to all exceptions, so teams cannot combine their Mid-Level and a player to get someone for more money or add two trade exceptions together to pick up a player with a higher salary than either one.

Similarly, they are generated separately – The best example of this comes from Golden State’s trade with Utah last summer to clear space for Andre Iguodala. For that part of the huge transaction, the Warriors traded Richard Jefferson, Andris Biedrins, and Brandon Rush into Utah’s cap space. This did not give the Warriors one huge exception – it instead yielded three trade exceptions in the amounts of the salaries for the three players involved. This nuance protects the league from teams creating what I call a Voltron exception, where a series of minor moves could give them a hugely valuable larger single exception that could then be used to add a major piece. Separating trade exceptions makes for a more fair solution that creative teams can still use effectively.

They can also come from an unbalanced trade – While many think of trade exceptions as stemming from transactions where one player gets sent into another team’s cap or exception, they can also be created in trades with different salaried pieces going from one place to another. In those cases, the team trading away a higher salary than they receive secures a trade exception in the amount of the difference as long as they are not under the cap. (This is how the Knicks got a trade exception the size of Raymond Felton’s contract in their recent trade with the Mavericks.)

However, once generated a trade exception can be partially used or split– Here, what I talked about before with thinking about trade exceptions as bank accounts that you cannot add money back into makes even more sense. Like a bank account, teams can take some out here and there as long as the balance never gets below zero. If a team has an $8 million trade exception, they could get one $7.5 million or $8 million player or two $4 million guys during those twelve months. Whenever part of an exception gets used, any remainder sticks around until it expires. Remember from above that the player must fully fit within a single exception, so a team cannot use $600,000 from one exception and $400,000 from another source to acquire a $1 million salary.

Despite all that, creative GM’s can use players and trade exceptions together in some circumstances – While trades with aggregated salaries cannot fit under this umbrella, teams can format trades to make this work. As an example, let’s say the Warriors want Taj Gibson but do not want to trade enough salary to make it work directly as a player for player(s) swap. They could use part of their trade exception from sending Richard Jefferson to Utah last July to acquire Gibson and then send something cheaper like Harrison Barnes to Chicago.

The functional purpose of trade exceptions

Trade exceptions allow for additional roster flexibility in some important situations. For example, they provide an amazing way for teams butting up against the cap or tax to add another piece or two. Additionally, since trade exceptions require the participation of another team, they encourage negotiation between franchises and can help facilitate mutually beneficial exchanges of contracts.

More specifically, trade exceptions provide an advantage for teams with owners willing to spend. Similar to the amnesty provision, trade exceptions only truly become useful as teams get closer to the cap and/or luxury tax and only convert from riskless asset to actual dollars when utilized. Both Oklahoma City and Golden State had the ability to use trade exceptions at any point last season to add another piece that would have carried the added price of pushing them into the luxury tax, though the Warriors were hard capped at the apron which sits $4 million over the luxury tax line. Whether due to that impact or the lack of a worthwhile player to use all or part of it on, both trade exceptions went largely unused during the 2013-14 season and could expire in full or in part shortly after the July moratorium.

The value of a trade exception depends almost entirely on it actually being used since they cannot be traded in any way. They can be incredibly effective when deployed properly and functionally useless in other situations.

Important active trade exceptions

[AUTHOR’S NOTE: Keep in mind that the figures below are as reported by sources including Basketball Insiders and ShamSports. The actual numbers may vary in some circumstances.]

Soon to Expire (Before August 1) Trade Exceptions

Boston – $10,275,136 (for Paul Pierce) – Expires July 14

Golden State – $9,835,920 (for Richard Jefferson) – Expires July 10

Oklahoma City – $6,500,000 (for Kevin Martin) – Expires July 11

LA Clippers – $2,626,474 (for Eric Bledsoe) – Expires July 10

Denver – (for Andre Iguodala) – Expires July 10 – Mostly used to acquire Arron Afflalo on draft night

Notable Longer-Lasting Trade Exceptions

Chicago – (for Luol Deng) – Expires January 6, 2015 – Mostly used to acquire Anthony Randolph on draft night in the larger trade with Denver

Indiana – $4,281,921 (for Danny Granger) – Expires February 20, 2015

Memphis- $3,135,000 (for Jerryd Bayless) – Expires January 6, 2015

Miami- $2,200,000 (for Joel Anthony) – Expires January 15, 2015

Sacramento – $2,424,687 (for Marcus Thornton) – Expires February 19, 2015

Toronto- $4,583,432 (for Rudy Gay) – Expires December 9, 2014

If you have any further questions on trade exceptions, feel free to ask them here or hit me up on Twitter @DannyLeroux
Asked and Answered, Collective Bargaining Agreement, Salary Cap trade exception
Daniel Leroux

Daniel Leroux has covered the Golden State Warriors for five seasons for RealGM, starting during his final year of law school. He was born and raised in the Bay Area and has a bachelor's in Economics from UCLA (Go Bruins!) and a law degree from UC Hastings college of the law. He also hosts the RealGM Radio podcast.
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All of which is true. But, that explanation doesn't mention that TPEs, just like every other exception, creates a cap hold for that amount when a team is under the salary cap. For example, if we have $6M in TPEs we can keep them but that takes away $6M in cap space or we can waive them and gain $6M in cap space. For all intents and purposes, we have no TPE or MLE this Summer but we could have the Room Exception.

fishmike wrote:Briggs.. pretty sure sign and trade can only happen if the player is already under contract. Min cant sign the Euro guy and send him to us. That would be like us signing KP then trading him. You can either trade the draft rights, or sign him and wait until that December date. You can only S&T guys who expired from your team and if you have their bird rights. The euro guy is neither

You can use a TPE for a sign and trade.

VCoug wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

VCoug wrote:Everyone's talking about the MLE but we don't have it because we'll be under the cap. The only exception we could have is the room exception which is something like $2M. The MLE and the TPEs will all be gone tomorrow when we go under the cap.

We get the mid-level once we use up the cap room. The Heat did it in 2010 - they signed Mike Miller to the MLE after signing their big fish.

That's not true and no they didn't.

Ah, had to look it up - you are right. I didn't understand that about the mid-level. whoops, sorry about that.

I think we still get the room exception, but that's obviously not enough to get any of the names we're talking about

crzymdups wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

blkexec wrote:Not sure why anybody is hating on this lineup. ...personally i see nothing wrong with that lineup. Aflalo and west are solid vets. Monroe is a decent low post center with a mid range game and a good passer for the triangle. The only problem is defense at sf.....who's guarding bron melo? West? Whis guarding Thompson?

The Greek Freak (Thanasis) can start when we play Cleveland and put him on Lebron.

I don't think Thanasis is that ready for the NBA yet. Will be interesting to see what the Knicks do with him this summer. I wouldn't be shocked if he went back to Europe for a year or two. He's raaaaaw.

I'm not sure Thanasis will make the roster if we're going off his D-League stint from last year. We have to hope that Early and Thanasis have made some strides in their game. At the very least, they can provide some hard fouls on Lebron to try and dissuade him from going to the hole.

I hope Early and Thanasis are hard at work on their games, but I haven't heard a peep about either. I have hopes for both.

I would think that Phil is more likely to keep Early than Thanasis.

Would love to see some progress from him in SL, but I'm not sure Jackson will keep him if he looks like he did last year. Hope his game is more refined, though. He lost money staying in the U.S. and playing in the DL, I assume. Would love to see him do bett and make the squad.