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The case for Justice Winslow
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BRIGGS
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5/21/2015  11:46 PM
Since we have gone through the prospects today lets get to all of them.

Here is the question with Winslow--can he use the dribble to make plays like James Harden can? Is this player a combo of Harden Butler and Leonard?

Will his open floor game not only translate to the NBA but actually exceed expectations?

Hes got a nice jumper for 19 can he continue that and even get better?

Im confused about this pick as anyone--believe me. But we have a month to get it right.

Watching this video--when you step back and look at it a few times--he's going to be great.

RIP Crushalot😞
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BRIGGS
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5/21/2015  11:53 PM
The one thing you get from Winslow that no other top 6 pick has is elite athleticism in combination with a 220pd frame.
RIP Crushalot😞
callmened
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5/21/2015  11:58 PM
i love this kids athleticism and i think he'll be a solid pro in the NBA.
- he has raw athletic talent and he's built like a tank; NBA ready body
- he has "enough" ballhandling where he can drive
- my only concern is his inconsistent shooting
- he started off a BAD shooter but looked good at the end
- i think since we have melo at the 3/4 and hes not a consistent shooter, i would pass
- im worried he might have too much mike-kidd-gilchrist in him
- overall i think you can find a lot of NBA guys like him - therefore i wouldnt use a #4 on him
Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
nixluva
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5/21/2015  11:59 PM
Winslow just knows how to win. He does everything that his team needs in order to win games. It's weird cuz I don't get the sense that he has a ton more upside. I just think he's ready. He can come in and play like a vet. Doing all the little things in addition to being able to give you some offensive punch. He's a little bit of Jimmy Butler mixed with Harden. I can't really say anything negative of consequence. I would have no problem if Phil went with this kid.
callmened
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5/22/2015  12:01 AM
nixluva wrote:Winslow just knows how to win. He does everything that his team needs in order to win games. It's weird cuz I don't get the sense that he has a ton more upside. I just think he's ready. He can come in and play like a vet. Doing all the little things in addition to being able to give you some offensive punch. He's a little bit of Jimmy Butler mixed with Harden. I can't really say anything negative of consequence. I would have no problem if Phil went with this kid.

i have no problems drafting him...just not at #4. i need a franchise player at that high

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
callmened
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5/22/2015  12:01 AM
nixluva wrote:Winslow just knows how to win. He does everything that his team needs in order to win games. It's weird cuz I don't get the sense that he has a ton more upside. I just think he's ready. He can come in and play like a vet. Doing all the little things in addition to being able to give you some offensive punch. He's a little bit of Jimmy Butler mixed with Harden. I can't really say anything negative of consequence. I would have no problem if Phil went with this kid.

i have no problems drafting him...just not at #4. i need a franchise player at that high

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
nixluva
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5/22/2015  12:05 AM
callmened wrote:
nixluva wrote:Winslow just knows how to win. He does everything that his team needs in order to win games. It's weird cuz I don't get the sense that he has a ton more upside. I just think he's ready. He can come in and play like a vet. Doing all the little things in addition to being able to give you some offensive punch. He's a little bit of Jimmy Butler mixed with Harden. I can't really say anything negative of consequence. I would have no problem if Phil went with this kid.

i have no problems drafting him...just not at #4. i need a franchise player at that high


That sounds like Russell or Mudiay unless Okafor fell to us.
BRIGGS
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5/22/2015  12:07 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/22/2015  12:07 AM
The only question mark is his game off the dribble. Thats what Harden does so well and so far Winslow does not. Hes got a great dribble drive and Euro step but he isnt a great shooter off the dribble YET. He does have a good -looking lefty set stroke. BUT D Wade was NOT a good shooter off the dribble initially either--he was prolific at B line drives which could not be stopped. This is the scary guy because he has that combination power and athletic ability set. Only other guys in the draft who hasve the same is Andersen Wells and Rice but they are not at Winslows level of two way play and they are 3 years older.
RIP Crushalot😞
crzymdups
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5/22/2015  12:07 AM
Winslow is solidly fifth on my board. I would be able to talk myself into him.

He's got potential to be a great player. He'd make a perfect Spur, which is a huge compliment from me.

My big issue with him is that I feel he plays the easiest position to fill on the floor. But maybe I'm wrong about that.

Melo certainly likes the kid. I'd be okay with him.


Right now at pick 4, assuming the first three are Towns, Okafor and Russell, I go:

4) Mudiay
5) Winslow
6) WCS

¿ △ ?
callmened
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5/22/2015  12:09 AM
crzymdups wrote:Winslow is solidly fifth on my board. I would be able to talk myself into him.

He's got potential to be a great player. He'd make a perfect Spur, which is a huge compliment from me.

My big issue with him is that I feel he plays the easiest position to fill on the floor. But maybe I'm wrong about that.

Melo certainly likes the kid. I'd be okay with him.


Right now at pick 4, assuming the first three are Towns, Okafor and Russell, I go:

4) Mudiay
5) Winslow
6) WCS

great point....there are a million athletic wings in the NBA. thats pretty easy to find

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
BRIGGS
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5/22/2015  12:20 AM
callmened wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Winslow is solidly fifth on my board. I would be able to talk myself into him.

He's got potential to be a great player. He'd make a perfect Spur, which is a huge compliment from me.

My big issue with him is that I feel he plays the easiest position to fill on the floor. But maybe I'm wrong about that.

Melo certainly likes the kid. I'd be okay with him.


Right now at pick 4, assuming the first three are Towns, Okafor and Russell, I go:

4) Mudiay
5) Winslow
6) WCS

great point....there are a million athletic wings in the NBA. thats pretty easy to find

If you can make plays with the dribble shoot pass rebound and defend at 6-6 225 with elite athleticism you can potentially be a top NBA player--so he's very scary pass up. The HIGHEST diligence has to be done on him.

RIP Crushalot😞
FistOfOakley
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5/22/2015  12:24 AM
the thing with winslow is that he was pretty mediocre to start the year but the second half of it he dominated... you saw it in the tourney... they were winning basically because of winslow and not okafor...

and it's not just a hot shooting streak.. it was an across the board improvement... as a freshman that's a very good sign because it shows they can adjust to a new level of play pretty quickly... and it wasn't just the move to PF that helped him.. he was starting to dominate a month before the position change too...

everyone's going to point to his upside or lack of it due to his inability to create for himself.. and right now that's a valid claim... but there's a good amount of safety with him.. if you take kawhi leonard.. a player he's very similar to... and place him in all the drafts of the past 10 years.. you would take him 1, 2, 3 or 4 in every one of them...

mudiay has fit concerns as well as more serious questions about his shot...

this is going to be our best asset for the next 3 years... we have to come away with a great player and winslow has the best shot at it given where we are...

callmened
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5/22/2015  12:28 AM
the inconsistent shooting and ball creating are red flags to me. again i wouldnt mind him on my team, just not sure id draft him at #4
Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
Knicks1969
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5/22/2015  12:29 AM
I still can't believe we are picking fourth in this draft. That is a travesty. At two or three, we would have many more options.
Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
BRIGGS
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5/22/2015  12:33 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/22/2015  12:34 AM
Knicks1969 wrote:I still can't believe we are picking fourth in this draft. That is a travesty. At two or three, we would have many more options.

Complete opposite--wed have less and we wouldnt be sitting here right now:)

RIP Crushalot😞
FistOfOakley
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5/22/2015  12:40 AM
this is just food for thought and i don't happen to think winslow is like harden but this was an article grabbed from DX:

Harden's biggest shortcoming ended up being in the perimeter shooting department. He was terrific on the very few catch and shoot opportunities he received with his feet set (2.4 Pos/G), but really struggled when being contested (.85 PPP) or shooting off the dribble (.73 PPP). In fact, the 27% he shot from the field off the dribble is the lowest of any of the nineteen players in our sample. Fortunately for Harden, this is clearly a part of his game he can work on, but he'll have to put in the appropriate time in the gym.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/#ixzz3aq4lN0hs

winslow has similar percentages on pull ups/off the dribble shots but i forget where i read it from... in either case... it's not something that's a huge concern...

nixluva
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5/22/2015  12:41 AM
Yeah 1-3 is pretty cut and dry. Once you get to 4 it's a MUCH harder proposition. Now you're trying to figure out who has the most potential not to bust which is almost unknowable. You have to do your best research and cross your fingers that you picked the right guy.

Mudiay
Winslow
Hezonja
WCS

BigDaddyG
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5/22/2015  12:54 AM
Winslow reminds me of guys like Jerry Stackhouse and Quentin Richardson's powerfully built wings who were forced to play power forward in college. I think Winslow can make the transition, but it's hard to tell where he eventually lands. Butler, Stack house...Richard Jefferson? Wings are the hardest guys to predict. For every Arron Afflalo that surprises deep in the draft, there's a guy like Xavier Henry who flops. If I had to guess, I'd say Winslow is closer to Stackhouse. That's a nice player to have.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
callmened
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5/22/2015  1:27 AM
when you say closer to stackhouse...u mean built like a truck-stackhouse?

offensively stackhouse was a scoring machine inside and out. winslow doesnt have much on offense. he has a nice transition game, improving jumper and powerful B-Line drives

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
WaltLongmire
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5/22/2015  2:01 AM
He's a warrior.

Jay Bilas said Coach K compared him to Wade.

Szczerbiak likes him. Called him a winner. Talked about him as a 3 or4(?), and also a 2. He has not seen a lot of Mudiay, and likes Winslow for the Knicks. Also said he has an attitude (the type you want on your team) and plays a lot bigger than his actual height. Likes him as a defender.

Somebody else- might have been Fran Fraschilla, talked about the fact that Winslow was doing a lot of damage against college PFs, which is not a position I expect him to play in the NBA. Despite his 3pt shooting success, Fraschilla has doubts about his shooting. He puts Mudiay and Porzingis above him, and I think he talked about Winslow at 7.

I really wonder about his offensive game as it translates to the NBA, especially if you pencil him in at SG. I don't see him as a fluid shooter.

Until the official measurements, I was under the assumption that he was legit 6'7" or more. We now know this is not the case. We also know that the guy already has the body of a 25 year old man.

This is part of the DraftExpress analysis:

The biggest question marks about Winslow revolve around how prolific a scorer he will become at the NBA level. Is he better suited as being a third or fourth offensive option, or can he develop into someone who can shoulder a heavier load? Right now he's a little on the mechanical side and seems to struggle as a primary shot-creator, not being very effective in isolation or pick and roll situations, unless he has a slower footed power forward he can take advantage of on the perimeter. It's no surprise that his productivity fell off when playing alongside two non-shooting big men (Jefferson/Okafor) earlier in the season, before Duke started using smaller lineups more frequently.

His game relies heavily on power, which probably won't work quite as well in the NBA, where lowering your shoulder and bulldozing through the lane doesn't get the same results as it does in college. Developing his in-between game will help, as will quickening the speed of his release and showing he can translate his somewhat flat shot to the longer distances of the NBA 3-point line. The 64% he shot from the free throw line as a freshman indicates he still has work to do on his jumper.

With that said, Winslow has continued to improve every single time we've seen him, as he has a reputation for being an absolute gym rat, and will certainly continue to work on his game as his career progresses. He's also an extremely intelligent player who is highly unselfish, executes extremely well offensively, and has won in every single place he's been. He won three gold medals with USA Basketball, and a NCAA championship as a freshman, which speaks volumes about the type of competitor he is. What he lacks in style points he'll make up for as a flawless teammate, which will certainly be very attractive to teams in the lottery who are looking to upgrade their culture and try to get back on the winning track.

Despite my doubts, I actually put a lot of stock in the last part of the DraftExpress clip I have here. I like the gym rat types. He's been a winner most of his life, it would seem, and seems to be a good teammate. Wonder what kind of improvements in his he's working on prior to his workouts.

He might just be the intangible type player who does what he needs to do to be on the winning side at the end of the game. There is something to be said about this kind of player.

He's not my first choice, but if he shows some things in his workouts that indicate there is more to his game than what we saw at Duke, I could definitely live with him.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
The case for Justice Winslow

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