EwingsGlass wrote:I get the sense that teams willing to draft Euros need to be able to let them develop in Europe. I do not think we have that luxury this year. So while it can be great to let players develop without blowing through their rookie scale contract, we genuinely need a starter out of this draft.

That's why I feel like the Knicks may just take Winslow at this point. He can come in and start and defend and Melo likes him. He doesn't have as high a ceiling as some of the others, by far, but his bust potential is also far lower. He's the safest pick the Knicks can make, which makes me think it's practically a lock. When you can't afford to get something wrong, you make the safest play possible. That's Winslow. Nothing against him, I like him as a player.

WaltLongmire wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Ill say this again about Porzinigs

I don't like his ectomorphic body type. I think in combination of being a run/jump athlete with his unusually long and brittle looking limbs--he looks primed to be an athlete who will deal with injury problems.(In Major League baseball scouts tend to keep away from pitchers with normal height and slight builds in fear of them hurting themselves--apologies to Ron Guidry) So you're a team who is willing to take a pick that will result in a player who you KNOW doubt will have to A. Wait on for 2-3 years and B. Take a player who is a walking injury risk

Im sorry to Fran Fischilla or anyone else out there who likes Porzinighis. On first look you are somewhat taken by his incredible combination of length and athleticism--its a rare bird and he can shoot. BUT he will shy away from NBA contact for the foreseeable future--he doesnt have the nuances of the game down like a Kaminsky--and he could probably give Kaminsky a helluva 1-1 battle--but basketball is 5-5 and its physical and whether right or wrong--I say steer clear of this guy too many what if's. He cannot handle the ball he has a tweener awkwardness--he's an opportunistic secondary player in Europe. No fans will get this pick and it has ridicule written all over it. Steer clear.

I'm a fan of Kaminsky, who can do a lot of things. I would have no issue with him at #4 if he showed up well in our workout.

Wonder if he looked a lot like Porzingis when he came up as a freshman, though? I know he didn't have the same ability when he came up as a freeman that Porzingis is showing against superior European competition.

Not sure about Porzingis' injury potential or history, but he does look thin, although he's gained some bulk since 2 years ago. A lot of guys getting injuries these days, Briggs- many are superior athletes who test the limits a body can endure given the laws of physics. Have not heard any stories about tendonitis being an issue, which is something you would expect giving his length and youth.

Leverage and center of gravity can also negate pure strength, especially if the athlete knows how to gain position. In the sports I played in during HS and college my competitive strength was always greater than the actual numbers I could put up when weight lifting- and this had to do with balance, position, and leverage.

If you watch Porzingis he's not afraid to battle in the post, and he shows a decent center of gravity when positioning himself. He is not a bad ball handler, either, but I'm not sure you want a big man doing too much ball handling, anyway. There are videos of him at 16 or 17 taking it to the basket off his dribble. The other thing that just might make him special is his ability to defend at multiple positions. Maybe he ends up being a WCS type defender with offensive ability, for all we know.

Keep an open mind. Who knows what will come out when these guys are worked out- many might change their minds, including myself.

You would be alright with us drafting Kaminsky at #4?? Wow, that would make me crazy if we drafted him that high. I like him and wouldn't mind us drafting him if we traded down some but to spend out top 4 Pick on a guy that has no defense especially for the NBA would be crazy to me.

Please note that I'm always mentioning the workouts when I talk about players now. I have to think that anyone we look at will be put through the proper paces so we can get a true picture of how good they are, what they need to improve on, and whether the deficiencies they now have can be improved upon.

With that said, Kaminsky had as much success in college as any coming out (of course he stayed in for 4 years), AND he has shown that he can improve his game over time.

Kaminsky has a proven record in showing that he can grow and make changes as a player, and I think he has a little more upside left than people think.

Would I rather have Towns of OK4 over him…yup, but it is doubtful that we have a chance to pick them, and lets face it, Kaminsky went toe to toe with them and came away standing tall. I think he showed that his so-called defensive deficiencies are a bit overblown. I had doubts about his mobility, but I think came out looking pretty good after watching him close out his season in the NCAA finals.

crzymdups wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:I get the sense that teams willing to draft Euros need to be able to let them develop in Europe. I do not think we have that luxury this year. So while it can be great to let players develop without blowing through their rookie scale contract, we genuinely need a starter out of this draft.

That's why I feel like the Knicks may just take Winslow at this point. He can come in and start and defend and Melo likes him. He doesn't have as high a ceiling as some of the others, by far, but his bust potential is also far lower. He's the safest pick the Knicks can make, which makes me think it's practically a lock. When you can't afford to get something wrong, you make the safest play possible. That's Winslow. Nothing against him, I like him as a player.

Porzingis actually stayed in Europe another year because he thought he could use the seasoning! How many American kids think like that? Why didn't Stanley Johnson or Miles Turner do that- they both could have used another year. He's been successful against competition as good or better than the college teams our one and done kids compete against. These are professional teams which usually don't cater to one player, and he's shown he can do well within a system where he can't do whatever he wants to do. Many of the analysts think he he step in and contribute right away, but needs additional strength to reach his full potential.

I actually like Winslow, although like Porzingis, he has his weaknesses, and as many analysts have pointed out, he did much of his damage against slower college PFs this year.

The other issue is that Winslow is a SF, in my opinion, and I don't think you can have a front court with him and Anthony- you just don't have enough length, IMO. Winslow is a winner and a gamer, though, and he carries himself in a way that I like. I would not go to bed crying on draft night if we picked him up.

On the other hand, Porzingis might be able to defend at the SF position, and moving Anthony over would not be as much of an issue, because Porzingis is also a better shot blocker.

All of this is academic, though, until these guys are worked out.

WaltLongmire wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:From Scott Howard-Cooper of NBA.com:

Kristaps Porzingis, a smooth-shooting power forward from Latvia, has emerged as a serious threat to break into the top three of the June 25 draft in a potential serious shakeup to the long-held perception the top four spots are set, with some executives at the pre-draft combine here saying Porzingis could go second.

“He could go two,” one general manager said. “He’s that good. Nobody says anything bad about him.”

Said the head of basketball operations for another team: “I think he’s a lock for the top five and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him go as high as top three. He’s good. We all like to do our comparables. He’s like Dirk Nowitzki or Pau Gasol….. I’d take him ahead of (Jahlil) Okafor.”

Porzingis is 7’1″, and averaged 10.7 points, 4.4 rebounds and 1.1 blocked shots in international play this past season, while knocking down 37.9 percent of his shots from three-point distance.

Pray this happens because it would give us a shot at OK4 or Russell or Mudiay. It won't though- no way in hell The Twolves (why go for him when you can have Towns) or Lakers (they need to sell tickets) would take him- it would make zero sense. Maybe the Sixers, but highly unlikely.

It's weird how the Hezonja hype has completely died out

I thought I heard there was a non-BB issue related to Hezonja, but can't find anything on this.

This comment from the article below is also revealing, IMO:

"They do things differently over there. Coaches over there are like college coaches. They kind of rule with an iron hammer, and once they knew he was leaving for the NBA, his minutes started to shrink."

When I started this thread I didn't think that Porzingis would actually be considered higher than #4.

You never know when a team will fall in love with someone during the workout period, especially foreign players who you've only had your overseas scouts watching. Maybe we end up benefitting, but who knows how OK4 and Towns look in their workouts.

Interesting to see that the Pistons had their coach and GM going over to watch. Would be nice if Fisher had taken a trip. You know Phil would not, and nobody would take Mills seriously if he went there and evaluated them.

This is a recent article dealing with both guys.
European prospects are international men of mystery when it comes to the NBA draft.

Fans can give complete breakdowns of NCAA stars, but their knowledge of foreign players isn't as thorough.

That raises question marks when European players are projected lottery picks, such as Latvian power forward Kristaps Porzingis and Croatian small forward Mario Hezonja.

The Pistons, who likely will have the eighth pick in the June 25 draft, have heavily scouted both, and it's highly possible they could be in play.

ESPN international draft expert Fran Fraschilla had praise for both prospects during a Wednesday teleconference.

He lauded the "tantalizing, long-term potential" of Porzingis, but he saved his most eye-opening analysis for Hezonja.

"He's the only guy in this draft that someday could potentially win either the dunk contest or the three-point contest — or both — because he's a phenomenal athlete," Fraschilla said.

Hezonja, 20, plays for FC Barcelona in the top class of the Spanish league.

At 6-feet-8, he is a tantalizing combination of athleticism and shooting ability.

He averages only 4.7 points and shoots 39.2% from the international three-point distance during all European competition this season.

But Fraschilla, though noting there are maturity concerns, scoffed at looking at Hezonja's statistics.

"He's mercurial, and maturity has been as issue as a young player," Fraschilla said. "Do not go by his statistics in Barcelona.

"They do things differently over there. Coaches over there are like college coaches. They kind of rule with an iron hammer, and once they knew he was leaving for the NBA, his minutes started to shrink."

Porzingis, 19, plays for CB Sevilla of the same league and averages 10.8 points and 4.7 rebounds and shoots 32.4% from three-point range. He offers tremendous size at 7-2, and the ability to knock down three-pointers is enticing for evaluators.

Fraschilla said Porzingis' upside compares favorably with big men Karl-Anthony Towns and Jahlil Okafor.

"He's a couple years away, strength-wise," Fraschilla said. "But I'm telling you he has the same long-term potential range as Towns and Okafor. I just don't think anybody is going to have the guts to take him 1 or 2."

Neither prospect will be at the NBA draft combine in Chicago this week because the Euroleague is still playing.

Pistons president and coach Stan Van Gundy and general manager Jeff Bower took a recent trip to Spain to scout the prospects.

nixluva wrote:One thing Phil said about the pick is that he doesn't expect the pick to be immediately ready to be a force. He said he'd be fine with having the kid on the team developing rather than having a lead role. Sounds to me like he's looking for BPA in terms of upside. He wants a pick that can turn into something big for the franchise. That could open the door for a pick like Kris P.

Phil isn't necessarily looking for a player that has to come in and contribute on a high level day one. That's why he's said he's looking at Free Agency to build the team as opposed to the pick necessarily being an immediate driving force. I think Phil would have the courage to take Kris P. if he was the best talent on the board at #4 and there was not a good enough trade to be made.

I never make a big deal about dunks... the real issue is the movement of this big man, his aggressiveness, and in the more recent one, the ability to go over Taveras, who is a pretty good big man with significant shot blocking ability. The seconds is also more impressive because of the ball handling.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/kporzee/status/602150699917561856

Also found another scouting video on YouTube...

jbeachboy wrote:he is a toothpick, his body needs at least 5 years to develop muscle

He could eat a pound of grilled chicken 5 times a day and do low range high intensity training and be 225-230 in 2 months

crzymdups wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

jbeachboy wrote:he is a toothpick, his body needs at least 5 years to develop muscle

He could eat a pound of grilled chicken 5 times a day and do low range high intensity training and be 225 in 2 months

He could also be the next Jan Vasely.

Jan Vessley is not 7-2 I've always follewed drafts closely. I hear the thought process on the body but if he wants it and the mds say yes than easy choice. He is not vessley skits dirk etc. He's kristap

BRIGGS wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

jbeachboy wrote:he is a toothpick, his body needs at least 5 years to develop muscle

He could eat a pound of grilled chicken 5 times a day and do low range high intensity training and be 225 in 2 months

He could also be the next Jan Vasely.

Jan Vessley is not 7-2 I've always follewed drafts closely. I hear the thought process on the body but if he wants it and the mds say yes than easy choice. He is not vessley skits dirk etc. He's kristap

It's a huge huge risk. Players who fit his profile have an extremely high bust rate. I think the Knicks will go safer. I'm thinking they'll go safest which would be Winslow or WCS. Mudiay is the wild card, though he was ranked #2 in his class coming out of high school. All those guys are safer bets and fit what Phil is trying to do in the Triangle more. Especially if you factor in the likelihood that we're gonna chase Monroe.

jbeachboy wrote:mudiay has like westbrook like potential when i watch him but slightly slower

I think Wall is the closer analogy, though he's nowhere near as fast as Wall. Wall meets Tyreke Evans, maybe. Which would still be the best PG we've had in NY since Marbury's few good years here.

Porzingis doesn't fit that model. I'm not sure where he fits. I think drafting him would be a disaster.