CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:knicks are not drafting this guy CMON!

they have a much better chance at trading down.

unless they trade melo, they need to draft the best player at helping them win now.

Also, lets not forget that the knicks NEED to not be in the lotto next year so that the bargs pick is less stingy

Who determines who the best player is for helping us to win now, and what about the BPA rule?

I've said this a number of times- you really have to wait for the workouts before making a real assessment and you can't determine who the BPA is until you do this.

All you or I can do is analyze videos or remember games we saw- things can be very different if you work a kid out and run him through the things you want him to do. Porzingis has against top European teams, and has done well. Has he faced better competition than Mudiay? Does he have more ability than Winslow? Does he have a higher ceiling than Kaminsky?

A lot of things will be determined by our workouts, and I have no idea who will rise and who will fall as all the teams do this.

You only have to remember Curry, who was not considered a lottery pick before his final year in college. The tournament helped him out, but I expect the team workouts helped him move up into the top 10 that year.

I'm unwilling to discount any of the kids people have talked about- and some might really impress and move up in the draft when everything is said and done.

Wow. He won't be 19 until August and the draftexpress video had him going against nba level talent. He definitely is someone to consider. I think workouts will reveal a lot with some of these guys. Have to wonder where Mudiay would be ranked if he went to SMU instead of China.

maybe a lot lower, who knows.

sometimes the more you get seen the more it hurts you

Maybe but Brown said he was the most talented point guard he had ever seen at his age. That and comparisons to Kidd, Wall and Westbrook make it seem like he might be ranked higher. Also he was the 2nd or 3rd highest ranked prep player last year coming out of high school depending on what rankings you go by.

LB is one guy (not an offensive genius) and he also has ties to his family so he is almost like his publicist.

LB is also very old school and I would rather a new school view.

I would love to hear from Billy Donovan and Hoiberg on this. Why always LB?

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:knicks are not drafting this guy CMON!

they have a much better chance at trading down.

unless they trade melo, they need to draft the best player at helping them win now.

Also, lets not forget that the knicks NEED to not be in the lotto next year so that the bargs pick is less stingy

Who determines who the best player is for helping us to win now, and what about the BPA rule?

I've said this a number of times- you really have to wait for the workouts before making a real assessment and you can't determine who the BPA is until you do this.

All you or I can do is analyze videos or remember games we saw- things can be very different if you work a kid out and run him through the things you want him to do. Porzingis has against top European teams, and has done well. Has he faced better competition than Mudiay? Does he have more ability than Winslow? Does he have a higher ceiling than Kaminsky?

A lot of things will be determined by our workouts, and I have no idea who will rise and who will fall as all the teams do this.

You only have to remember Curry, who was not considered a lottery pick before his final year in college. The tournament helped him out, but I expect the team workouts helped him move up into the top 10 that year.

I'm unwilling to discount any of the kids people have talked about- and some might really impress and move up in the draft when everything is said and done.

I absolutely agree.

1st, we are not privy to a lot of valuable info though we think that we are informed
2nd, things will / can definitely change though I don't really think that is the case with the top 3
3rd, what the hell do I know?

All I am doing is making predictions based on the data that I can see. When I say that x is not happening, it is a prediction not a fact

I also find it fun to predict what GM's are going to do based on track record, perception, and all the other vars.

I pick Winslow (or a trade down)

The Fraschilla interview really got to me. I was thinking of making this thread before the interview, and then I heard him on ESPN radio. I expected him to say we should take Mudiay, who he likes (and I like, too), and was stunned when he said he thought Porzingis was the better pick in his opinion. He is one of the better guys at evaluating foreign players, and I remember that he was one of the few analysts who said Gallinari was not the soft Euro many said he was pre-draft.

He was also pretty firm about putting Winslow below Mudiay and Porzingis, and thought both of these guys were better picks than Kaminsky, who I also like.

I figure that Russell (if around), Mudiay, Winslow, Porzingis, and Kaminsky are guys the Knicks will seriously think about taking based on workouts.

I will take OK4 or Towns in a heartbeat if they fall, assuming that we've worked them out and not found some unfixable flaws in their respective games, but for the sake argument, and until I hear info or see videos that make me change my mind, I think I'll champion the Latvian for now.

whats fran's success rate and picking prospects? Saying that about Gallo is nice but that is one guy. How has he done overall?

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:knicks are not drafting this guy CMON!

they have a much better chance at trading down.

unless they trade melo, they need to draft the best player at helping them win now.

Also, lets not forget that the knicks NEED to not be in the lotto next year so that the bargs pick is less stingy

Who determines who the best player is for helping us to win now, and what about the BPA rule?

I've said this a number of times- you really have to wait for the workouts before making a real assessment and you can't determine who the BPA is until you do this.

All you or I can do is analyze videos or remember games we saw- things can be very different if you work a kid out and run him through the things you want him to do. Porzingis has against top European teams, and has done well. Has he faced better competition than Mudiay? Does he have more ability than Winslow? Does he have a higher ceiling than Kaminsky?

A lot of things will be determined by our workouts, and I have no idea who will rise and who will fall as all the teams do this.

You only have to remember Curry, who was not considered a lottery pick before his final year in college. The tournament helped him out, but I expect the team workouts helped him move up into the top 10 that year.

I'm unwilling to discount any of the kids people have talked about- and some might really impress and move up in the draft when everything is said and done.

I absolutely agree.

1st, we are not privy to a lot of valuable info though we think that we are informed
2nd, things will / can definitely change though I don't really think that is the case with the top 3
3rd, what the hell do I know?

All I am doing is making predictions based on the data that I can see. When I say that x is not happening, it is a prediction not a fact

I also find it fun to predict what GM's are going to do based on track record, perception, and all the other vars.

I pick Winslow (or a trade down)

The Fraschilla interview really got to me. I was thinking of making this thread before the interview, and then I heard him on ESPN radio. I expected him to say we should take Mudiay, who he likes (and I like, too), and was stunned when he said he thought Porzingis was the better pick in his opinion. He is one of the better guys at evaluating foreign players, and I remember that he was one of the few analysts who said Gallinari was not the soft Euro many said he was pre-draft.

He was also pretty firm about putting Winslow below Mudiay and Porzingis, and thought both of these guys were better picks than Kaminsky, who I also like.

I figure that Russell (if around), Mudiay, Winslow, Porzingis, and Kaminsky are guys the Knicks will seriously think about taking based on workouts.

I will take OK4 or Towns in a heartbeat if they fall, assuming that we've worked them out and not found some unfixable flaws in their respective games, but for the sake argument, and until I hear info or see videos that make me change my mind, I think I'll champion the Latvian for now.

whats fran's success rate and picking prospects? Saying that about Gallo is nice but that is one guy. How has he done overall?

Good point…but I just can't give you an answer. I did a google search and found an article where he said the Knicks should take Gallinari if Mayo was off the board. He thought Mayo was at the same level as Rose and Beasley… which is not exactly an endorsement for him. He thought Beasley was the most talented player in that draft, by the way.

This was from a chat where he was asked questions prior to that draft:

Hi Fran, Which player does a free fall on draft day? Any chance Gallinari falls to to the Raps?
Fran Fraschilla

Unfortunately, no way. Despite all the smoke and mirrors, I think the Knicks will take him at No. 6. While I like Andrea Bargnani, Gallinari is a completely different player. He's a small forward who can attack the basket, shoot it from deep, hanlee the ball and plays with a toughness uncommon for a 19-year-old, international player.

When talking about Porzingis and Mudiay, he also referred to the triangle, and the relative value (or lack) of a PG in this system- I think that figured into his choice of Porzingis for the Knicks, but based on what he said I feel he things Porzingis will be the better player in the long run.

yeah and maybe he is right but many people are wrong about players often.

unless he has a proven track record for being right, I can't take it too seriously.

Also, I believe that all the best judges of talent are working for teams and don't do too much talking.

Again, maybe he gets picked here but if I was a betting man, I bet 10 : 1 that he is not. I am a degenerate gambler :)

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:knicks are not drafting this guy CMON!

they have a much better chance at trading down.

unless they trade melo, they need to draft the best player at helping them win now.

Also, lets not forget that the knicks NEED to not be in the lotto next year so that the bargs pick is less stingy

Who determines who the best player is for helping us to win now, and what about the BPA rule?

I've said this a number of times- you really have to wait for the workouts before making a real assessment and you can't determine who the BPA is until you do this.

All you or I can do is analyze videos or remember games we saw- things can be very different if you work a kid out and run him through the things you want him to do. Porzingis has against top European teams, and has done well. Has he faced better competition than Mudiay? Does he have more ability than Winslow? Does he have a higher ceiling than Kaminsky?

A lot of things will be determined by our workouts, and I have no idea who will rise and who will fall as all the teams do this.

You only have to remember Curry, who was not considered a lottery pick before his final year in college. The tournament helped him out, but I expect the team workouts helped him move up into the top 10 that year.

I'm unwilling to discount any of the kids people have talked about- and some might really impress and move up in the draft when everything is said and done.

Wow. He won't be 19 until August and the draftexpress video had him going against nba level talent. He definitely is someone to consider. I think workouts will reveal a lot with some of these guys. Have to wonder where Mudiay would be ranked if he went to SMU instead of China.

maybe a lot lower, who knows.

sometimes the more you get seen the more it hurts you

Maybe but Brown said he was the most talented point guard he had ever seen at his age. That and comparisons to Kidd, Wall and Westbrook make it seem like he might be ranked higher. Also he was the 2nd or 3rd highest ranked prep player last year coming out of high school depending on what rankings you go by.

LB is one guy (not an offensive genius) and he also has ties to his family so he is almost like his publicist.

LB is also very old school and I would rather a new school view.

I would love to hear from Billy Donovan and Hoiberg on this. Why always LB?

Because LB is the coach at the school where Mudiay committed to. Makes sense no?

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:knicks are not drafting this guy CMON!

they have a much better chance at trading down.

unless they trade melo, they need to draft the best player at helping them win now.

Also, lets not forget that the knicks NEED to not be in the lotto next year so that the bargs pick is less stingy

Who determines who the best player is for helping us to win now, and what about the BPA rule?

I've said this a number of times- you really have to wait for the workouts before making a real assessment and you can't determine who the BPA is until you do this.

All you or I can do is analyze videos or remember games we saw- things can be very different if you work a kid out and run him through the things you want him to do. Porzingis has against top European teams, and has done well. Has he faced better competition than Mudiay? Does he have more ability than Winslow? Does he have a higher ceiling than Kaminsky?

A lot of things will be determined by our workouts, and I have no idea who will rise and who will fall as all the teams do this.

You only have to remember Curry, who was not considered a lottery pick before his final year in college. The tournament helped him out, but I expect the team workouts helped him move up into the top 10 that year.

I'm unwilling to discount any of the kids people have talked about- and some might really impress and move up in the draft when everything is said and done.

Wow. He won't be 19 until August and the draftexpress video had him going against nba level talent. He definitely is someone to consider. I think workouts will reveal a lot with some of these guys. Have to wonder where Mudiay would be ranked if he went to SMU instead of China.

maybe a lot lower, who knows.

sometimes the more you get seen the more it hurts you

Maybe but Brown said he was the most talented point guard he had ever seen at his age. That and comparisons to Kidd, Wall and Westbrook make it seem like he might be ranked higher. Also he was the 2nd or 3rd highest ranked prep player last year coming out of high school depending on what rankings you go by.

LB is one guy (not an offensive genius) and he also has ties to his family so he is almost like his publicist.

LB is also very old school and I would rather a new school view.

I would love to hear from Billy Donovan and Hoiberg on this. Why always LB?

Because LB is the coach at the school where Mudiay committed to. Makes sense no?

not sure what you mean

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:knicks are not drafting this guy CMON!

they have a much better chance at trading down.

unless they trade melo, they need to draft the best player at helping them win now.

Also, lets not forget that the knicks NEED to not be in the lotto next year so that the bargs pick is less stingy

Who determines who the best player is for helping us to win now, and what about the BPA rule?

I've said this a number of times- you really have to wait for the workouts before making a real assessment and you can't determine who the BPA is until you do this.

All you or I can do is analyze videos or remember games we saw- things can be very different if you work a kid out and run him through the things you want him to do. Porzingis has against top European teams, and has done well. Has he faced better competition than Mudiay? Does he have more ability than Winslow? Does he have a higher ceiling than Kaminsky?

A lot of things will be determined by our workouts, and I have no idea who will rise and who will fall as all the teams do this.

You only have to remember Curry, who was not considered a lottery pick before his final year in college. The tournament helped him out, but I expect the team workouts helped him move up into the top 10 that year.

I'm unwilling to discount any of the kids people have talked about- and some might really impress and move up in the draft when everything is said and done.

Wow. He won't be 19 until August and the draftexpress video had him going against nba level talent. He definitely is someone to consider. I think workouts will reveal a lot with some of these guys. Have to wonder where Mudiay would be ranked if he went to SMU instead of China.

maybe a lot lower, who knows.

sometimes the more you get seen the more it hurts you

Maybe but Brown said he was the most talented point guard he had ever seen at his age. That and comparisons to Kidd, Wall and Westbrook make it seem like he might be ranked higher. Also he was the 2nd or 3rd highest ranked prep player last year coming out of high school depending on what rankings you go by.

LB is one guy (not an offensive genius) and he also has ties to his family so he is almost like his publicist.

LB is also very old school and I would rather a new school view.

I would love to hear from Billy Donovan and Hoiberg on this. Why always LB?

Because LB is the coach at the school where Mudiay committed to. Makes sense no?

not sure what you mean

Mudiay committed to play for Brown. He ended up going to China so why would Donovan or Hoiberg comment? They never coached or faced him.

you are giving another argument to believe that he is biased.

WaltLongmire wrote:As I start to write this, Fran Fraschilla is saying that he believes the Knicks should choose between Mudiay and Porzingis. He just said that he would take Porzingis over Mudiay. He likes Winslow, but sees some limitations, and does not put him up with Mudiay and Porzingis.

He compared his D to that of Kirilenko, and then threw out the Dirk comparison.

Earlier in the day, Jay Bilas also mentioned Porzingis.

He is clearly being looked at by a lot of folks, and Fraschilla said some even say that at some point he might be one of the top 2 players to come from this draft.

Watched more of the videos on him, today, and took more time to look at them because we might be looking at him seriously..

This one is from July of 2014- it is a general analysis of his ability:

This is from December 2014 vs Barcelona, where DraftExpress breaks down what he did in the game.

I'm sure there are other videos to look at, but I have not searched for them yet.

Edit_ here is an analysis from February 2014.

Another one to music- don't like the fanboy video's, but it shows some good stuff

He has a lot of upside, but is already a very polished player who played at a high level in a strong league over in Europe.

He can shoot from the outside, has a midrange game, shows some moves in the post, and he can run. He also looks like he has the lateral movement and length to be a fine defender, and for a guy with his length, he has a decent center of gravity. The videos show him boxing out for rebounds, too.

Still has some things to work on besides his body, and I wish he was a better passer, but he is already a good player, and for now, his length should mitigate the problems cause by his lack of bulk.

Folks would be foolish to discount this guy. Briggs has talked about him during the year, but he seems to be highly regarded by guys who look at college players for a living.

There would be an uproar by some if we took him- and expect to get ripped by some, since many are prejudiced toward Euros, but if he comes in with a little more bulk, and shows the things he's shown in Europe, I think the Knicks will give him a more than serious look.

This is my guy that i've been talking about for a while now, but even with how much of a fan i am of him and wouldn't mind Phil drafting him at 4, i am a little on the edge about him cause he's gonna take some time to put some weight on and to adjust to the NBA. Now of course nobody knows if it will take the kid 1 year to be ready or 3 years to be ready but when he's ready he'll be a hell of a player in the NBA and i'd love to see him on the Knicks.

newyorker4ever wrote:

mreinman wrote:Melo will not ok a euro at this spot

Have you spoken to melo?? I've never heard melo talk about having any problems with euros so what did he tell you??

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:knicks are not drafting this guy CMON!

they have a much better chance at trading down.

unless they trade melo, they need to draft the best player at helping them win now.

Also, lets not forget that the knicks NEED to not be in the lotto next year so that the bargs pick is less stingy

Who determines who the best player is for helping us to win now, and what about the BPA rule?

I've said this a number of times- you really have to wait for the workouts before making a real assessment and you can't determine who the BPA is until you do this.

All you or I can do is analyze videos or remember games we saw- things can be very different if you work a kid out and run him through the things you want him to do. Porzingis has against top European teams, and has done well. Has he faced better competition than Mudiay? Does he have more ability than Winslow? Does he have a higher ceiling than Kaminsky?

A lot of things will be determined by our workouts, and I have no idea who will rise and who will fall as all the teams do this.

You only have to remember Curry, who was not considered a lottery pick before his final year in college. The tournament helped him out, but I expect the team workouts helped him move up into the top 10 that year.

I'm unwilling to discount any of the kids people have talked about- and some might really impress and move up in the draft when everything is said and done.

Wow. He won't be 19 until August and the draftexpress video had him going against nba level talent. He definitely is someone to consider. I think workouts will reveal a lot with some of these guys. Have to wonder where Mudiay would be ranked if he went to SMU instead of China.

maybe a lot lower, who knows.

sometimes the more you get seen the more it hurts you

Maybe but Brown said he was the most talented point guard he had ever seen at his age. That and comparisons to Kidd, Wall and Westbrook make it seem like he might be ranked higher. Also he was the 2nd or 3rd highest ranked prep player last year coming out of high school depending on what rankings you go by.

LB is one guy (not an offensive genius) and he also has ties to his family so he is almost like his publicist.

LB is also very old school and I would rather a new school view.

I would love to hear from Billy Donovan and Hoiberg on this. Why always LB?

Because LB is the coach at the school where Mudiay committed to. Makes sense no?

not sure what you mean

Mudiay committed to play for Brown. He ended up going to China so why would Donovan or Hoiberg comment? They never coached or faced him.

you are giving another argument to believe that he is biased.

If you have questions about Okafor or Winslow do you listen to coach K?

not really.

newyorker4ever wrote:
This is my guy that i've been talking about for a while now, but even with how much of a fan i am of him and wouldn't mind Phil drafting him at 4, i am a little on the edge about him cause he's gonna take some time to put some weight on and to adjust to the NBA. Now of course nobody knows if it will take the kid 1 year to be ready or 3 years to be ready but when he's ready he'll be a hell of a player in the NBA and i'd love to see him on the Knicks.

He pulled out of the draft last year, not sure why- maybe he felt he needed another year of growth.

Sometimes the leverage you have with a long body makes up for pure strength. He would have to use his quickness and shooting ability from the outside to compensate until his body hardens completely.

Wonder if he will come into the workout period carrying some extra weight or muscle?