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I cant believe Phil is going to TRY and sell the triangle to FA..smh
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Knicks1969
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4/25/2015  9:52 PM
If Phil decides to coach the team next season, it will automatically be a success. However, he still has to bring in the right players to make it so. If he is it going to coach the team, the triangle will be a failure; we will not win more then 20 games.
Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
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CrushAlot
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4/25/2015  9:57 PM
Believe it
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
knicks1248
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4/25/2015  10:52 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Billups not sold on triangle: Jackson said he plans to use the triangle offense as a selling point with free agents this summer. At least one former NBA player thinks that’s a bad idea.

“I don’t know about that triangle,” ESPN analyst Chauncey Billups said on the “The Knicks Blog with Anthony Donahue” radio show. “The game is just different now. ... Look at the point-guard position right now; these guys are playmakers.

“They come down, they score, they’re playmakers. They need pick-and-rolls. You put one of those guys in the triangle offense, where it’s kind of just slow down, pass, cut -- it’s no real NBA playmaking ability. It’s no pick-and-roll stuff, it’s no pindown to the post, no counteraction. Obviously that offense won a lot of championships. But it was curtailed to the personnel that they had.”

Billups added: “You look at Shaq in the triangle -- there’s really no big man in the game like that today. It’s a guard’s game. The game is small, it’s a guard’s game. I got my reservations about the triangle, I really do.”


This is an absolute fact, neither Towns, or OK4 will thrive in the triangle, and if we don't have a play making PG we will suffer another 17 win season. Just base on some indirect comments, Phil knows this. Watching the playoffs, specifically , Aldridge, Gasol, those guys look for the PnR every time down court, it's the nature of the game.

I even heard shaq, rick fox, kerr, echoing these same words billups said.

Whats even more of a concern, what happens in 2016/17 when phil is gone,


The very essence of the Triangle is to have post players in prime scoring position. I have no idea what you're actually considering "facts" but in truth players like Towns and OK4 should thrive in this system.

1. Bigs get far more touches in this system because the flow of the offense isn't to pound the ball but rather to pass the ball into a post player and cut.

2. The history of Bigs in the Triangle suggests that they can be successful in the offense, since it actually enhances the looks that bigs get. The more skilled the Big the more options they'll have.

3. The Triangle is one of the few offenses that are designed to work with two pivots. Pau and Bynum is an example of this. There is always a low post option on the strong side "Triangle" and a 2 man game called "Pinch Post" on the opposite side where you can run PnR etc. So your PF and C are always involved in the flow of the offense.


I never said the triangle is bad system in general, but in a PG driven league, it doesn't make much sense to run it consistently.

PG driven league? How?

Since 1990, the only point guards worth mentioning that were on championship teams are Parker, Billups and Rondo, who sucks now by the way.

The NBA will always be about stars rather than positions.

My fact has fully debunked your nonsense.


Your kidding right, there are more stars/above avg players at the guard position then any position in the NBA. In the east alone you have to deal with Rose, Wall, Irving, Lowrey, D will, dragic, wade ,teague, then you go west with, curry, klay, harden, parker westbrook, kobe, rubio,Lillard. CP3.


It's a guard driven league dude, and if you don't have one that can defend those top guys, and make them guys sweat on the other end, your not winning many games.

Those guards may not have a bunch of championships, but make no mistake, you have to go through them night in and night out.

SO THERE"S NOTHING NONSENSE ABOUT IT..This ain't the damn 90's, the game has change..WAKE UP. We saw Kidd, and felton get eaten up alive almost every night

Only two of the players you mentioned have rings...both are nearly retired.

You have to play these guys 40 times a season in order to get to the finals

ES
nixluva
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4/25/2015  11:50 PM
Knicks1969 wrote:If Phil decides to coach the team next season, it will automatically be a success. However, he still has to bring in the right players to make it so. If he is it going to coach the team, the triangle will be a failure; we will not win more then 20 games.

Phil is pleased with how Fish has coached the team. I think he's more concerned with the talent on his roster than his coach.

There wasn't anything wrong with how they ran the offense from a technical standpoint. It was the players running it on the floor that was the limitation. Phil knows that the biggest improvement will come with an improvement in the players at the top of his rotation. We need a much better starting lineup and that's what Phil is looking to do this summer. It's really that simple.

EwingsGlass
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4/25/2015  11:59 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Billups not sold on triangle: Jackson said he plans to use the triangle offense as a selling point with free agents this summer. At least one former NBA player thinks that’s a bad idea.

“I don’t know about that triangle,” ESPN analyst Chauncey Billups said on the “The Knicks Blog with Anthony Donahue” radio show. “The game is just different now. ... Look at the point-guard position right now; these guys are playmakers.

“They come down, they score, they’re playmakers. They need pick-and-rolls. You put one of those guys in the triangle offense, where it’s kind of just slow down, pass, cut -- it’s no real NBA playmaking ability. It’s no pick-and-roll stuff, it’s no pindown to the post, no counteraction. Obviously that offense won a lot of championships. But it was curtailed to the personnel that they had.”

Billups added: “You look at Shaq in the triangle -- there’s really no big man in the game like that today. It’s a guard’s game. The game is small, it’s a guard’s game. I got my reservations about the triangle, I really do.”


This is an absolute fact, neither Towns, or OK4 will thrive in the triangle, and if we don't have a play making PG we will suffer another 17 win season. Just base on some indirect comments, Phil knows this. Watching the playoffs, specifically , Aldridge, Gasol, those guys look for the PnR every time down court, it's the nature of the game.

I even heard shaq, rick fox, kerr, echoing these same words billups said.

Whats even more of a concern, what happens in 2016/17 when phil is gone,


The very essence of the Triangle is to have post players in prime scoring position. I have no idea what you're actually considering "facts" but in truth players like Towns and OK4 should thrive in this system.

1. Bigs get far more touches in this system because the flow of the offense isn't to pound the ball but rather to pass the ball into a post player and cut.

2. The history of Bigs in the Triangle suggests that they can be successful in the offense, since it actually enhances the looks that bigs get. The more skilled the Big the more options they'll have.

3. The Triangle is one of the few offenses that are designed to work with two pivots. Pau and Bynum is an example of this. There is always a low post option on the strong side "Triangle" and a 2 man game called "Pinch Post" on the opposite side where you can run PnR etc. So your PF and C are always involved in the flow of the offense.


I never said the triangle is bad system in general, but in a PG driven league, it doesn't make much sense to run it consistently.

PG driven league? How?

Since 1990, the only point guards worth mentioning that were on championship teams are Parker, Billups and Rondo, who sucks now by the way.

The NBA will always be about stars rather than positions.

My fact has fully debunked your nonsense.


Your kidding right, there are more stars/above avg players at the guard position then any position in the NBA. In the east alone you have to deal with Rose, Wall, Irving, Lowrey, D will, dragic, wade ,teague, then you go west with, curry, klay, harden, parker westbrook, kobe, rubio,Lillard. CP3.


It's a guard driven league dude, and if you don't have one that can defend those top guys, and make them guys sweat on the other end, your not winning many games.

Those guards may not have a bunch of championships, but make no mistake, you have to go through them night in and night out.

SO THERE"S NOTHING NONSENSE ABOUT IT..This ain't the damn 90's, the game has change..WAKE UP. We saw Kidd, and felton get eaten up alive almost every night

Only two of the players you mentioned have rings...both are nearly retired.

You have to play these guys 40 times a season in order to get to the finals

Your point is lost on me for lack of, well, sense. Every team has a PG and a SG. You play 82 games against teams with PGs, not just 40. I guarantee that the team that wins the championship will have a pg. Having a dynamic pg doesn't guaranty wins. Hell, OKC isn't in the playoffs with the best PG in the league.

As I recall, Kidd won 54 games with the Knicks. That point is lost.

There are not more star PGs and SGs than in the past. They just have different names. The only top-10 PG with a ring in the last 15 years is Tony Parker (Take away the Miami Lebron-ettes, and you are left with the Mavericks (and ironically, Jason Kidd, but he was not top 10 with the Maves) with a championship and Big Chief Triangle with a bunch of championships.

So don't even try to tell me that PGs or even SGs win championships. God forbid the Warriors win, well, they have the splash brothers and the triangle.

This is the Randle.
knicks1248
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4/26/2015  2:19 AM
EwingsGlass wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Billups not sold on triangle: Jackson said he plans to use the triangle offense as a selling point with free agents this summer. At least one former NBA player thinks that’s a bad idea.

“I don’t know about that triangle,” ESPN analyst Chauncey Billups said on the “The Knicks Blog with Anthony Donahue” radio show. “The game is just different now. ... Look at the point-guard position right now; these guys are playmakers.

“They come down, they score, they’re playmakers. They need pick-and-rolls. You put one of those guys in the triangle offense, where it’s kind of just slow down, pass, cut -- it’s no real NBA playmaking ability. It’s no pick-and-roll stuff, it’s no pindown to the post, no counteraction. Obviously that offense won a lot of championships. But it was curtailed to the personnel that they had.”

Billups added: “You look at Shaq in the triangle -- there’s really no big man in the game like that today. It’s a guard’s game. The game is small, it’s a guard’s game. I got my reservations about the triangle, I really do.”


This is an absolute fact, neither Towns, or OK4 will thrive in the triangle, and if we don't have a play making PG we will suffer another 17 win season. Just base on some indirect comments, Phil knows this. Watching the playoffs, specifically , Aldridge, Gasol, those guys look for the PnR every time down court, it's the nature of the game.

I even heard shaq, rick fox, kerr, echoing these same words billups said.

Whats even more of a concern, what happens in 2016/17 when phil is gone,


The very essence of the Triangle is to have post players in prime scoring position. I have no idea what you're actually considering "facts" but in truth players like Towns and OK4 should thrive in this system.

1. Bigs get far more touches in this system because the flow of the offense isn't to pound the ball but rather to pass the ball into a post player and cut.

2. The history of Bigs in the Triangle suggests that they can be successful in the offense, since it actually enhances the looks that bigs get. The more skilled the Big the more options they'll have.

3. The Triangle is one of the few offenses that are designed to work with two pivots. Pau and Bynum is an example of this. There is always a low post option on the strong side "Triangle" and a 2 man game called "Pinch Post" on the opposite side where you can run PnR etc. So your PF and C are always involved in the flow of the offense.


I never said the triangle is bad system in general, but in a PG driven league, it doesn't make much sense to run it consistently.

PG driven league? How?

Since 1990, the only point guards worth mentioning that were on championship teams are Parker, Billups and Rondo, who sucks now by the way.

The NBA will always be about stars rather than positions.

My fact has fully debunked your nonsense.


Your kidding right, there are more stars/above avg players at the guard position then any position in the NBA. In the east alone you have to deal with Rose, Wall, Irving, Lowrey, D will, dragic, wade ,teague, then you go west with, curry, klay, harden, parker westbrook, kobe, rubio,Lillard. CP3.


It's a guard driven league dude, and if you don't have one that can defend those top guys, and make them guys sweat on the other end, your not winning many games.

Those guards may not have a bunch of championships, but make no mistake, you have to go through them night in and night out.

SO THERE"S NOTHING NONSENSE ABOUT IT..This ain't the damn 90's, the game has change..WAKE UP. We saw Kidd, and felton get eaten up alive almost every night

Only two of the players you mentioned have rings...both are nearly retired.

You have to play these guys 40 times a season in order to get to the finals

Your point is lost on me for lack of, well, sense. Every team has a PG and a SG. You play 82 games against teams with PGs, not just 40. I guarantee that the team that wins the championship will have a pg. Having a dynamic pg doesn't guaranty wins. Hell, OKC isn't in the playoffs with the best PG in the league.

As I recall, Kidd won 54 games with the Knicks. That point is lost.

There are not more star PGs and SGs than in the past. They just have different names. The only top-10 PG with a ring in the last 15 years is Tony Parker (Take away the Miami Lebron-ettes, and you are left with the Mavericks (and ironically, Jason Kidd, but he was not top 10 with the Maves) with a championship and Big Chief Triangle with a bunch of championships.

So don't even try to tell me that PGs or even SGs win championships. God forbid the Warriors win, well, they have the splash brothers and the triangle.

Your completely missing the point, if were getting crushed every night by an elite pg, how exactly are we to make it to the playoffs. You think we can sure up on every other position, and have a guy like larkin, felton, calderone, prigioni, or some other below avg pg and it wouldn't matter, will be fine.

I don't like scoring pg's at all, but the truth of the matter is that, there are a lot of them in today's game and you can't avoid not having one like back in the days. I mean even in this triangle thing, it was the guards that shine the most.

ES
CrushAlot
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4/26/2015  2:56 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Billups not sold on triangle: Jackson said he plans to use the triangle offense as a selling point with free agents this summer. At least one former NBA player thinks that’s a bad idea.

“I don’t know about that triangle,” ESPN analyst Chauncey Billups said on the “The Knicks Blog with Anthony Donahue” radio show. “The game is just different now. ... Look at the point-guard position right now; these guys are playmakers.

“They come down, they score, they’re playmakers. They need pick-and-rolls. You put one of those guys in the triangle offense, where it’s kind of just slow down, pass, cut -- it’s no real NBA playmaking ability. It’s no pick-and-roll stuff, it’s no pindown to the post, no counteraction. Obviously that offense won a lot of championships. But it was curtailed to the personnel that they had.”

Billups added: “You look at Shaq in the triangle -- there’s really no big man in the game like that today. It’s a guard’s game. The game is small, it’s a guard’s game. I got my reservations about the triangle, I really do.”


This is an absolute fact, neither Towns, or OK4 will thrive in the triangle, and if we don't have a play making PG we will suffer another 17 win season. Just base on some indirect comments, Phil knows this. Watching the playoffs, specifically , Aldridge, Gasol, those guys look for the PnR every time down court, it's the nature of the game.

I even heard shaq, rick fox, kerr, echoing these same words billups said.

Whats even more of a concern, what happens in 2016/17 when phil is gone,


The very essence of the Triangle is to have post players in prime scoring position. I have no idea what you're actually considering "facts" but in truth players like Towns and OK4 should thrive in this system.

1. Bigs get far more touches in this system because the flow of the offense isn't to pound the ball but rather to pass the ball into a post player and cut.

2. The history of Bigs in the Triangle suggests that they can be successful in the offense, since it actually enhances the looks that bigs get. The more skilled the Big the more options they'll have.

3. The Triangle is one of the few offenses that are designed to work with two pivots. Pau and Bynum is an example of this. There is always a low post option on the strong side "Triangle" and a 2 man game called "Pinch Post" on the opposite side where you can run PnR etc. So your PF and C are always involved in the flow of the offense.


I never said the triangle is bad system in general, but in a PG driven league, it doesn't make much sense to run it consistently.

PG driven league? How?

Since 1990, the only point guards worth mentioning that were on championship teams are Parker, Billups and Rondo, who sucks now by the way.

The NBA will always be about stars rather than positions.

My fact has fully debunked your nonsense.


Your kidding right, there are more stars/above avg players at the guard position then any position in the NBA. In the east alone you have to deal with Rose, Wall, Irving, Lowrey, D will, dragic, wade ,teague, then you go west with, curry, klay, harden, parker westbrook, kobe, rubio,Lillard. CP3.


It's a guard driven league dude, and if you don't have one that can defend those top guys, and make them guys sweat on the other end, your not winning many games.

Those guards may not have a bunch of championships, but make no mistake, you have to go through them night in and night out.

SO THERE"S NOTHING NONSENSE ABOUT IT..This ain't the damn 90's, the game has change..WAKE UP. We saw Kidd, and felton get eaten up alive almost every night

Only two of the players you mentioned have rings...both are nearly retired.

You have to play these guys 40 times a season in order to get to the finals

Your point is lost on me for lack of, well, sense. Every team has a PG and a SG. You play 82 games against teams with PGs, not just 40. I guarantee that the team that wins the championship will have a pg. Having a dynamic pg doesn't guaranty wins. Hell, OKC isn't in the playoffs with the best PG in the league.

As I recall, Kidd won 54 games with the Knicks. That point is lost.

There are not more star PGs and SGs than in the past. They just have different names. The only top-10 PG with a ring in the last 15 years is Tony Parker (Take away the Miami Lebron-ettes, and you are left with the Mavericks (and ironically, Jason Kidd, but he was not top 10 with the Maves) with a championship and Big Chief Triangle with a bunch of championships.

So don't even try to tell me that PGs or even SGs win championships. God forbid the Warriors win, well, they have the splash brothers and the triangle.

Your completely missing the point, if were getting crushed every night by an elite pg, how exactly are we to make it to the playoffs. You think we can sure up on every other position, and have a guy like larkin, felton, calderone, prigioni, or some other below avg pg and it wouldn't matter, will be fine.

I don't like scoring pg's at all, but the truth of the matter is that, there are a lot of them in today's game and you can't avoid not having one like back in the days. I mean even in this triangle thing, it was the guards that shine the most.

The Knicks already have a really good back court defender in Galloway.
http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2015/3/10/8182959/these-langston-galloway-defensive-tracking-numbers-are-kinda-nutsand will be bringing in Thanasis. I am not sure what you are looking for, a white flag? The Knicks are rebuilding and if they get it right thing should be good.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
JrZyHuStLa
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4/26/2015  11:34 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/26/2015  11:36 AM
You clearly said it's a PG driven league.

Why are you mentioning Wade, Klay, Harden and Kobe?

nixluva
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4/26/2015  12:18 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Your completely missing the point, if were getting crushed every night by an elite pg, how exactly are we to make it to the playoffs. You think we can sure up on every other position, and have a guy like larkin, felton, calderone, prigioni, or some other below avg pg and it wouldn't matter, will be fine.

I don't like scoring pg's at all, but the truth of the matter is that, there are a lot of them in today's game and you can't avoid not having one like back in the days. I mean even in this triangle thing, it was the guards that shine the most.

The Knicks already have a really good back court defender in Galloway.

http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2015/3/10/8182959/these-langston-galloway-defensive-tracking-numbers-are-kinda-nutsand will be bringing in Thanasis. I am not sure what you are looking for, a white flag? The Knicks are rebuilding and if they get it right thing should be good.


Great point. The plan is to continue to improve the teams defense not only on the interior but also on the perimeter. In the Triangle you can get away with a 3nD PG since the system doesn't rely on a ball dominant PG. They can't be as bad as TD was but they don't have to be PG wizards in order to have a good role in this offense. Fisher being a case in point. I like Galloway and I think he's an example of the kind of tough nosed players Phil likes.
EwingsGlass
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4/26/2015  2:23 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Billups not sold on triangle: Jackson said he plans to use the triangle offense as a selling point with free agents this summer. At least one former NBA player thinks that’s a bad idea.

“I don’t know about that triangle,” ESPN analyst Chauncey Billups said on the “The Knicks Blog with Anthony Donahue” radio show. “The game is just different now. ... Look at the point-guard position right now; these guys are playmakers.

“They come down, they score, they’re playmakers. They need pick-and-rolls. You put one of those guys in the triangle offense, where it’s kind of just slow down, pass, cut -- it’s no real NBA playmaking ability. It’s no pick-and-roll stuff, it’s no pindown to the post, no counteraction. Obviously that offense won a lot of championships. But it was curtailed to the personnel that they had.”

Billups added: “You look at Shaq in the triangle -- there’s really no big man in the game like that today. It’s a guard’s game. The game is small, it’s a guard’s game. I got my reservations about the triangle, I really do.”


This is an absolute fact, neither Towns, or OK4 will thrive in the triangle, and if we don't have a play making PG we will suffer another 17 win season. Just base on some indirect comments, Phil knows this. Watching the playoffs, specifically , Aldridge, Gasol, those guys look for the PnR every time down court, it's the nature of the game.

I even heard shaq, rick fox, kerr, echoing these same words billups said.

Whats even more of a concern, what happens in 2016/17 when phil is gone,


The very essence of the Triangle is to have post players in prime scoring position. I have no idea what you're actually considering "facts" but in truth players like Towns and OK4 should thrive in this system.

1. Bigs get far more touches in this system because the flow of the offense isn't to pound the ball but rather to pass the ball into a post player and cut.

2. The history of Bigs in the Triangle suggests that they can be successful in the offense, since it actually enhances the looks that bigs get. The more skilled the Big the more options they'll have.

3. The Triangle is one of the few offenses that are designed to work with two pivots. Pau and Bynum is an example of this. There is always a low post option on the strong side "Triangle" and a 2 man game called "Pinch Post" on the opposite side where you can run PnR etc. So your PF and C are always involved in the flow of the offense.


I never said the triangle is bad system in general, but in a PG driven league, it doesn't make much sense to run it consistently.

PG driven league? How?

Since 1990, the only point guards worth mentioning that were on championship teams are Parker, Billups and Rondo, who sucks now by the way.

The NBA will always be about stars rather than positions.

My fact has fully debunked your nonsense.


Your kidding right, there are more stars/above avg players at the guard position then any position in the NBA. In the east alone you have to deal with Rose, Wall, Irving, Lowrey, D will, dragic, wade ,teague, then you go west with, curry, klay, harden, parker westbrook, kobe, rubio,Lillard. CP3.


It's a guard driven league dude, and if you don't have one that can defend those top guys, and make them guys sweat on the other end, your not winning many games.

Those guards may not have a bunch of championships, but make no mistake, you have to go through them night in and night out.

SO THERE"S NOTHING NONSENSE ABOUT IT..This ain't the damn 90's, the game has change..WAKE UP. We saw Kidd, and felton get eaten up alive almost every night

Only two of the players you mentioned have rings...both are nearly retired.

You have to play these guys 40 times a season in order to get to the finals

Your point is lost on me for lack of, well, sense. Every team has a PG and a SG. You play 82 games against teams with PGs, not just 40. I guarantee that the team that wins the championship will have a pg. Having a dynamic pg doesn't guaranty wins. Hell, OKC isn't in the playoffs with the best PG in the league.

As I recall, Kidd won 54 games with the Knicks. That point is lost.

There are not more star PGs and SGs than in the past. They just have different names. The only top-10 PG with a ring in the last 15 years is Tony Parker (Take away the Miami Lebron-ettes, and you are left with the Mavericks (and ironically, Jason Kidd, but he was not top 10 with the Maves) with a championship and Big Chief Triangle with a bunch of championships.

So don't even try to tell me that PGs or even SGs win championships. God forbid the Warriors win, well, they have the splash brothers and the triangle.

Your completely missing the point, if were getting crushed every night by an elite pg, how exactly are we to make it to the playoffs. You think we can sure up on every other position, and have a guy like larkin, felton, calderone, prigioni, or some other below avg pg and it wouldn't matter, will be fine.

I don't like scoring pg's at all, but the truth of the matter is that, there are a lot of them in today's game and you can't avoid not having one like back in the days. I mean even in this triangle thing, it was the guards that shine the most.

I don't believe I am missing your point. I believe you are overstating the effectiveness of the best PGs in this league. For me, the best combination of stats I want when building my team from the offensive perspective is a combination of True Shooting percentage and actually, fouls drawn. Arguably, TS% already includes fouls drawn by turning 2pt plays into 3 point plays, but a guy like Deandre Jordan's TS% will not really show how many fouls he drew cause he misses his free throws A TON. That said, I am fine with that percentage to the extent that the fouls he draws ends up putting the opposing big man on the bench. Defensively, every player has to be considered a strong defender in order to overcome Melo's weaknesses on defense.

So, to counter my opposing dynamic pg, I want a strong interior defender like Deandre Jordan and a 3+D wing that can match with the other team's best offensive threat. Jimmy Butler (not available), Kawhi Leonard (not available), Khris Middleton (not available)...Demarre Carroll seems to be the best available. I am not familiar with Danny Green's defensive prowess, but I would listen. Trying to figure out what happened to Eric Gordon -- he has fallen off the wagon hard. Otherwise, we have to lay and pray and hope Antekoumnpo can be that kind of wing.

I agree that a dynamic PG that gets into the paint and draws fouls is incredibly effective, but I am most concerned with countering opposing wings with my money.I think that there are a lot more available defensive little guys than there are two way big boys. As such, I build my team from the low post and work my way out. A combination of a defensive PG and a strong interior defense can counter that pretty well.

I think this off season we can fill 4 out of 5 roster spots with long term starters. We will need to wait until next year to get the final player and then the bench will fill in afterwards. In this model we get KAT with the 1st pick.

I'd be in love if we finished the offseason with this starting 5, even if we had no real bench after that except for players signed for the vet minimum or rookie contracts:

Langston Galloway ($900k)
Demarre Carroll ($7.5MM)
Carmelo Anthony ($22.875K)
KAT ($4.7MM)
Deandre Jordan ($20.13MM)

This is the Randle.
MS
Posts: 26914
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4/26/2015  2:38 PM
Look at it from this standpoint.

The teams right now we are chasing are the Nets and Celtics. The Nets are not that hard to catch and the Celtics have cap space, potentially the best young couch in basketball and a team of tremendous role players.

Grabbing Carroll weakens the Hawks as does taking Crowder from the Celtics. We need guys that can get up in Lebrons face, Butler, disrupt Jabari Parker, Beal etc. 2015 isn't the year we get a star. It's the year we get three tremendous high IQ roll players that can hit the three and play good defense. Melo at the 4 is his best position.

JR Smith, just acted like a bitch because he couldn't put up with the toughness of a guy like Crowder. We need toughness back in the building. We need to regain the defensive professionalism.

nixluva
Posts: 56258
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Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
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4/26/2015  3:01 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:I don't believe I am missing your point. I believe you are overstating the effectiveness of the best PGs in this league. For me, the best combination of stats I want when building my team from the offensive perspective is a combination of True Shooting percentage and actually, fouls drawn. Arguably, TS% already includes fouls drawn by turning 2pt plays into 3 point plays, but a guy like Deandre Jordan's TS% will not really show how many fouls he drew cause he misses his free throws A TON. That said, I am fine with that percentage to the extent that the fouls he draws ends up putting the opposing big man on the bench. Defensively, every player has to be considered a strong defender in order to overcome Melo's weaknesses on defense.

So, to counter my opposing dynamic pg, I want a strong interior defender like Deandre Jordan and a 3+D wing that can match with the other team's best offensive threat. Jimmy Butler (not available), Kawhi Leonard (not available), Khris Middleton (not available)...Demarre Carroll seems to be the best available. I am not familiar with Danny Green's defensive prowess, but I would listen. Trying to figure out what happened to Eric Gordon -- he has fallen off the wagon hard. Otherwise, we have to lay and pray and hope Antekoumnpo can be that kind of wing.

I agree that a dynamic PG that gets into the paint and draws fouls is incredibly effective, but I am most concerned with countering opposing wings with my money.I think that there are a lot more available defensive little guys than there are two way big boys. As such, I build my team from the low post and work my way out. A combination of a defensive PG and a strong interior defense can counter that pretty well.

I think this off season we can fill 4 out of 5 roster spots with long term starters. We will need to wait until next year to get the final player and then the bench will fill in afterwards. In this model we get KAT with the 1st pick.

I'd be in love if we finished the offseason with this starting 5, even if we had no real bench after that except for players signed for the vet minimum or rookie contracts:

Langston Galloway ($900k)
Demarre Carroll ($7.5MM)
Carmelo Anthony ($22.875K)
KAT ($4.7MM)
Deandre Jordan ($20.13MM)


Danny Green and Demarre Carroll are very likely targets and depending on how his health come along i'd add Matthews.

I know that it can be tough in gauging certain players which is why I did the WS/48 list which also shows the players Defensive Win Shares and VORP. I'm high on Danny Green because he's a much better defender than people give him credit for. Danny Green is a championship player. Look at his defensive Win Shares and the videos I've posted below.


Rk Player Pos Age Tm G MP PER TS% 3PAr FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% OWS DWS WS WS/48 ▾ VORP
1 DeA. Jordan C 26 LAC 82 2820 21.0 .638 .007 .882 16.2 32.4 24.5 3.2 1.5 5.4 12.8 13.6 7.4 5.4 12.8 .217 4.3
2 Jimmy Butler SG 25 CHI 65 2513 21.3 .583 .212 .508 5.1 11.2 8.2 14.4 2.3 1.0 7.7 21.6 8.2 3.0 11.2 .214 4.2
3 Kawhi Leonard SF 23 SAS 64 2033 22.0 .567 .234 .307 4.8 20.6 12.9 13.0 3.7 1.8 9.4 23.0 4.2 4.4 8.6 .204 4.1
4 Bran. Wright PF 27 TOT 75 1449 20.4 .660 .008 .309 9.6 14.7 12.1 4.4 1.7 5.1 7.6 13.6 4.3 1.8 6.1 .202 2.0
5 M. Gasol C 30 MEM 81 2687 21.7 .558 .016 .410 4.9 21.8 13.4 19.7 1.4 4.0 12.2 24.6 5.5 4.7 10.2 .182 4.6
6 M. Muscala PF 23 ATL 40 502 18.0 .608 .146 .166 12.2 14.8 13.5 8.0 1.6 3.2 11.5 16.7 1.2 0.7 1.9 .179 0.5
7 P. Millsap PF 29 ATL 73 2390 20.1 .565 .232 .362 6.9 20.0 13.6 15.4 2.8 2.4 13.3 23.8 4.0 4.3 8.3 .167 3.7
8 A. Baynes C 28 SAS 70 1122 15.9 .618 .012 .318 11.2 20.7 16.1 4.9 0.7 1.5 14.8 17.8 2.3 1.6 3.9 .166 0.3
9 L. Aldridge PF 29 POR 71 2512 22.8 .528 .074 .256 7.7 22.9 15.5 9.2 1.0 1.9 7.2 30.2 4.9 3.7 8.6 .165 1.4
10 K. Love PF 26 CLE 75 2532 18.8 .562 .412 .337 6.5 26.3 16.6 10.7 1.0 1.2 10.0 21.7 5.8 2.9 8.7 .165 2.5

Rk Player Pos Age Tm G MP PER TS% 3PAr FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% OWS DWS WS WS/48 ▾ VORP
11 Danny Green SG 27 SAS 81 2312 16.5 .596 .619 .172 2.7 13.9 8.4 10.3 2.2 2.8 10.5 17.5 4.0 3.9 7.8 .163 4.1
12 Dray. Green SF 24 GSW 79 2490 16.4 .540 .430 .261 5.1 22.4 14.0 16.1 2.4 2.9 13.5 17.2 3.3 5.2 8.5 .163 4.4
13 A. Ajinca C 26 NOP 68 957 19.9 .595 .000 .301 12.4 25.0 18.7 8.2 1.2 4.0 15.6 21.1 1.9 1.2 3.2 .159 0.5
14 Brook Lopez C 26 BRK 72 2100 22.7 .558 .010 .278 11.5 17.1 14.3 4.5 1.1 4.8 8.6 26.3 4.7 2.2 7.0 .159 1.1
15 B. Biyombo C 22 CHO 64 1243 15.2 .578 .000 .941 13.7 22.6 18.0 2.0 0.7 6.3 16.5 11.6 1.8 2.2 4.0 .155 0.5
16 D. Carroll SF 28 ATL 70 2189 15.9 .603 .466 .277 5.3 13.8 9.7 8.3 2.2 0.7 9.3 16.9 4.3 2.8 7.0 .154 2.7
17 G. Monroe PF 24 DET 69 2137 21.2 .549 .000 .394 11.2 25.1 17.9 11.7 1.9 1.3 13.0 23.9 4.0 2.8 6.8 .153 2.1
18 A. Morrow SG 29 OKC 74 1806 14.8 .604 .528 .145 2.4 9.1 5.8 5.2 1.5 0.5 5.5 16.5 4.4 1.2 5.7 .151 1.2
19 R. Lopez C 26 POR 59 1638 16.2 .574 .002 .291 12.7 13.1 12.9 5.1 0.5 3.7 12.9 15.5 3.2 1.9 5.1 .150 1.7
20 C. Joseph PG 23 SAS 79 1444 15.5 .564 .107 .348 3.5 11.4 7.5 19.7 1.6 0.9 12.4 17.0 2.7 1.8 4.5 .149 1.0

Rk Player Pos Age Tm G MP PER TS% 3PAr FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% OWS DWS WS WS/48 ▾ VORP
21 Tri Thompson PF 23 CLE 82 2194 15.6 .580 .000 .508 14.5 19.7 17.2 2.7 0.8 2.2 12.2 14.0 4.7 2.1 6.8 .148 0.8
22 W. Matthews SG 28 POR 60 2024 16.1 .586 .592 .193 2.1 9.5 5.9 10.8 1.9 0.4 9.0 19.8 4.0 2.2 6.2 .147 3.0
23 Enes Kanter C 22 TOT 75 2135 20.3 .564 .048 .252 14.6 20.5 17.6 4.8 0.9 1.1 12.3 24.7 4.3 2.1 6.4 .145 -0.1
24 Jon. Jerebko PF 27 TOT 75 1230 15.0 .549 .369 .174 8.0 17.2 12.5 9.0 1.9 1.1 9.7 16.2 2.0 1.4 3.5 .135 0.9
25 K. Middleton PF 23 MIL 79 2378 15.6 .563 .308 .180 2.3 14.3 8.4 12.7 2.6 0.4 10.8 19.9 3.2 3.5 6.7 .135 2.0
26 Alexey Shved SG 26 TOT 42 767 19.5 .541 .415 .448 3.3 11.7 7.3 25.7 2.0 0.6 10.7 26.3 1.7 0.5 2.2 .135 0.5
27 Brandon Bass PF 29 BOS 82 1929 16.3 .557 .047 .313 7.8 14.9 11.3 8.6 1.1 1.3 9.6 19.5 3.4 1.9 5.3 .132 0.7
28 Dorell Wright SF 29 POR 48 592 13.4 .525 .568 .221 2.6 17.2 10.0 10.2 1.7 1.3 7.9 17.1 0.7 0.8 1.6 .128 0.4
29 Lavoy Allen PF 25 IND 63 1070 14.9 .493 .000 .157 12.8 20.5 16.7 10.9 0.7 3.1 11.1 15.2 1.3 1.6 2.8 .127 0.8
30 Amir Johnson PF 27 TOR 75 1979 15.4 .603 .089 .249 9.3 17.3 13.3 9.4 1.1 2.4 16.0 15.7 3.5 1.6 5.1 .124 1.9

Rk Player Pos Age Tm G MP PER TS% 3PAr FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% OWS DWS WS WS/48 ▾ VORP
31 Goran Dragic PG 28 TOT 78 2640 17.4 .577 .258 .234 3.5 8.2 5.9 22.8 1.5 0.5 13.5 21.8 5.4 1.4 6.8 .123 2.1
32 Joel Freeland C 27 POR 48 617 12.2 .522 .000 .166 11.0 21.9 16.6 3.8 0.7 2.7 12.4 13.4 0.6 0.9 1.6 .122 0.0
33 Tha Sefolosha SF 30 ATL 52 976 13.8 .506 .313 .233 6.4 19.3 13.1 11.2 2.8 1.8 12.2 14.6 0.8 1.7 2.5 .121 0.8
34 Omer Asik C 28 NOP 76 1982 15.5 .545 .000 .546 14.0 28.8 21.4 5.4 0.8 2.1 15.7 14.0 2.8 2.2 5.0 .120 0.6
35 Kosta Koufos C 25 MEM 81 1348 14.2 .530 .000 .237 10.3 25.8 18.1 4.3 1.1 3.9 14.9 15.8 0.8 2.5 3.3 .118 0.2
36 Jae Crowder SF 24 TOT 82 1647 13.9 .517 .382 .259 4.7 14.9 9.7 8.6 2.2 1.2 7.5 17.5 1.9 2.0 3.9 .113 1.1
37 Cole Aldrich C 26 NYK 61 976 18.1 .513 .000 .213 11.6 28.9 20.0 13.3 2.0 5.5 15.2 18.3 0.8 1.4 2.2 .107 0.7
38 Bran Knight PG 23 TOT 63 2035 17.1 .543 .361 .251 1.6 12.0 6.8 27.4 2.3 0.4 16.1 25.9 2.0 2.5 4.5 .106 1.6
39 Reg Jackson PG 24 TOT 77 2268 17.2 .511 .242 .219 2.6 12.9 7.8 34.8 1.4 0.3 14.6 24.6 3.3 1.7 4.9 .104 1.6
40 Mar Belinelli SG 28 SAS 62 1388 12.4 .553 .489 .211 2.2 10.5 6.4 10.3 1.1 0.2 10.6 18.8 1.5 1.4 2.9 .100 0.5
41 Tobias Harris SF 22 ORL 68 2369 16.7 .551 .252 .258 3.4 17.3 10.3 8.8 1.5 1.2 9.8 22.5 3.0 1.8 4.8 .098 1.0


EwingsGlass
Posts: 26033
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 4/29/2005
Member: #893
USA
4/26/2015  3:10 PM
nixluva wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:I don't believe I am missing your point. I believe you are overstating the effectiveness of the best PGs in this league. For me, the best combination of stats I want when building my team from the offensive perspective is a combination of True Shooting percentage and actually, fouls drawn. Arguably, TS% already includes fouls drawn by turning 2pt plays into 3 point plays, but a guy like Deandre Jordan's TS% will not really show how many fouls he drew cause he misses his free throws A TON. That said, I am fine with that percentage to the extent that the fouls he draws ends up putting the opposing big man on the bench. Defensively, every player has to be considered a strong defender in order to overcome Melo's weaknesses on defense.

So, to counter my opposing dynamic pg, I want a strong interior defender like Deandre Jordan and a 3+D wing that can match with the other team's best offensive threat. Jimmy Butler (not available), Kawhi Leonard (not available), Khris Middleton (not available)...Demarre Carroll seems to be the best available. I am not familiar with Danny Green's defensive prowess, but I would listen. Trying to figure out what happened to Eric Gordon -- he has fallen off the wagon hard. Otherwise, we have to lay and pray and hope Antekoumnpo can be that kind of wing.

I agree that a dynamic PG that gets into the paint and draws fouls is incredibly effective, but I am most concerned with countering opposing wings with my money.I think that there are a lot more available defensive little guys than there are two way big boys. As such, I build my team from the low post and work my way out. A combination of a defensive PG and a strong interior defense can counter that pretty well.

I think this off season we can fill 4 out of 5 roster spots with long term starters. We will need to wait until next year to get the final player and then the bench will fill in afterwards. In this model we get KAT with the 1st pick.

I'd be in love if we finished the offseason with this starting 5, even if we had no real bench after that except for players signed for the vet minimum or rookie contracts:

Langston Galloway ($900k)
Demarre Carroll ($7.5MM)
Carmelo Anthony ($22.875K)
KAT ($4.7MM)
Deandre Jordan ($20.13MM)


Danny Green and Demarre Carroll are very likely targets and depending on how his health come along i'd add Matthews.

I know that it can be tough in gauging certain players which is why I did the WS/48 list which also shows the players Defensive Win Shares and VORP. I'm high on Danny Green because he's a much better defender than people give him credit for. Danny Green is a championship player. Look at his defensive Win Shares and the videos I've posted below.


Rk Player Pos Age Tm G MP PER TS% 3PAr FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% OWS DWS WS WS/48 ▾ VORP
1 DeA. Jordan C 26 LAC 82 2820 21.0 .638 .007 .882 16.2 32.4 24.5 3.2 1.5 5.4 12.8 13.6 7.4 5.4 12.8 .217 4.3
2 Jimmy Butler SG 25 CHI 65 2513 21.3 .583 .212 .508 5.1 11.2 8.2 14.4 2.3 1.0 7.7 21.6 8.2 3.0 11.2 .214 4.2
3 Kawhi Leonard SF 23 SAS 64 2033 22.0 .567 .234 .307 4.8 20.6 12.9 13.0 3.7 1.8 9.4 23.0 4.2 4.4 8.6 .204 4.1
4 Bran. Wright PF 27 TOT 75 1449 20.4 .660 .008 .309 9.6 14.7 12.1 4.4 1.7 5.1 7.6 13.6 4.3 1.8 6.1 .202 2.0
5 M. Gasol C 30 MEM 81 2687 21.7 .558 .016 .410 4.9 21.8 13.4 19.7 1.4 4.0 12.2 24.6 5.5 4.7 10.2 .182 4.6
6 M. Muscala PF 23 ATL 40 502 18.0 .608 .146 .166 12.2 14.8 13.5 8.0 1.6 3.2 11.5 16.7 1.2 0.7 1.9 .179 0.5
7 P. Millsap PF 29 ATL 73 2390 20.1 .565 .232 .362 6.9 20.0 13.6 15.4 2.8 2.4 13.3 23.8 4.0 4.3 8.3 .167 3.7
8 A. Baynes C 28 SAS 70 1122 15.9 .618 .012 .318 11.2 20.7 16.1 4.9 0.7 1.5 14.8 17.8 2.3 1.6 3.9 .166 0.3
9 L. Aldridge PF 29 POR 71 2512 22.8 .528 .074 .256 7.7 22.9 15.5 9.2 1.0 1.9 7.2 30.2 4.9 3.7 8.6 .165 1.4
10 K. Love PF 26 CLE 75 2532 18.8 .562 .412 .337 6.5 26.3 16.6 10.7 1.0 1.2 10.0 21.7 5.8 2.9 8.7 .165 2.5

Rk Player Pos Age Tm G MP PER TS% 3PAr FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% OWS DWS WS WS/48 ▾ VORP
11 Danny Green SG 27 SAS 81 2312 16.5 .596 .619 .172 2.7 13.9 8.4 10.3 2.2 2.8 10.5 17.5 4.0 3.9 7.8 .163 4.1
12 Dray. Green SF 24 GSW 79 2490 16.4 .540 .430 .261 5.1 22.4 14.0 16.1 2.4 2.9 13.5 17.2 3.3 5.2 8.5 .163 4.4
13 A. Ajinca C 26 NOP 68 957 19.9 .595 .000 .301 12.4 25.0 18.7 8.2 1.2 4.0 15.6 21.1 1.9 1.2 3.2 .159 0.5
14 Brook Lopez C 26 BRK 72 2100 22.7 .558 .010 .278 11.5 17.1 14.3 4.5 1.1 4.8 8.6 26.3 4.7 2.2 7.0 .159 1.1
15 B. Biyombo C 22 CHO 64 1243 15.2 .578 .000 .941 13.7 22.6 18.0 2.0 0.7 6.3 16.5 11.6 1.8 2.2 4.0 .155 0.5
16 D. Carroll SF 28 ATL 70 2189 15.9 .603 .466 .277 5.3 13.8 9.7 8.3 2.2 0.7 9.3 16.9 4.3 2.8 7.0 .154 2.7
17 G. Monroe PF 24 DET 69 2137 21.2 .549 .000 .394 11.2 25.1 17.9 11.7 1.9 1.3 13.0 23.9 4.0 2.8 6.8 .153 2.1
18 A. Morrow SG 29 OKC 74 1806 14.8 .604 .528 .145 2.4 9.1 5.8 5.2 1.5 0.5 5.5 16.5 4.4 1.2 5.7 .151 1.2
19 R. Lopez C 26 POR 59 1638 16.2 .574 .002 .291 12.7 13.1 12.9 5.1 0.5 3.7 12.9 15.5 3.2 1.9 5.1 .150 1.7
20 C. Joseph PG 23 SAS 79 1444 15.5 .564 .107 .348 3.5 11.4 7.5 19.7 1.6 0.9 12.4 17.0 2.7 1.8 4.5 .149 1.0

Rk Player Pos Age Tm G MP PER TS% 3PAr FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% OWS DWS WS WS/48 ▾ VORP
21 Tri Thompson PF 23 CLE 82 2194 15.6 .580 .000 .508 14.5 19.7 17.2 2.7 0.8 2.2 12.2 14.0 4.7 2.1 6.8 .148 0.8
22 W. Matthews SG 28 POR 60 2024 16.1 .586 .592 .193 2.1 9.5 5.9 10.8 1.9 0.4 9.0 19.8 4.0 2.2 6.2 .147 3.0
23 Enes Kanter C 22 TOT 75 2135 20.3 .564 .048 .252 14.6 20.5 17.6 4.8 0.9 1.1 12.3 24.7 4.3 2.1 6.4 .145 -0.1
24 Jon. Jerebko PF 27 TOT 75 1230 15.0 .549 .369 .174 8.0 17.2 12.5 9.0 1.9 1.1 9.7 16.2 2.0 1.4 3.5 .135 0.9
25 K. Middleton PF 23 MIL 79 2378 15.6 .563 .308 .180 2.3 14.3 8.4 12.7 2.6 0.4 10.8 19.9 3.2 3.5 6.7 .135 2.0
26 Alexey Shved SG 26 TOT 42 767 19.5 .541 .415 .448 3.3 11.7 7.3 25.7 2.0 0.6 10.7 26.3 1.7 0.5 2.2 .135 0.5
27 Brandon Bass PF 29 BOS 82 1929 16.3 .557 .047 .313 7.8 14.9 11.3 8.6 1.1 1.3 9.6 19.5 3.4 1.9 5.3 .132 0.7
28 Dorell Wright SF 29 POR 48 592 13.4 .525 .568 .221 2.6 17.2 10.0 10.2 1.7 1.3 7.9 17.1 0.7 0.8 1.6 .128 0.4
29 Lavoy Allen PF 25 IND 63 1070 14.9 .493 .000 .157 12.8 20.5 16.7 10.9 0.7 3.1 11.1 15.2 1.3 1.6 2.8 .127 0.8
30 Amir Johnson PF 27 TOR 75 1979 15.4 .603 .089 .249 9.3 17.3 13.3 9.4 1.1 2.4 16.0 15.7 3.5 1.6 5.1 .124 1.9

Rk Player Pos Age Tm G MP PER TS% 3PAr FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% OWS DWS WS WS/48 ▾ VORP
31 Goran Dragic PG 28 TOT 78 2640 17.4 .577 .258 .234 3.5 8.2 5.9 22.8 1.5 0.5 13.5 21.8 5.4 1.4 6.8 .123 2.1
32 Joel Freeland C 27 POR 48 617 12.2 .522 .000 .166 11.0 21.9 16.6 3.8 0.7 2.7 12.4 13.4 0.6 0.9 1.6 .122 0.0
33 Tha Sefolosha SF 30 ATL 52 976 13.8 .506 .313 .233 6.4 19.3 13.1 11.2 2.8 1.8 12.2 14.6 0.8 1.7 2.5 .121 0.8
34 Omer Asik C 28 NOP 76 1982 15.5 .545 .000 .546 14.0 28.8 21.4 5.4 0.8 2.1 15.7 14.0 2.8 2.2 5.0 .120 0.6
35 Kosta Koufos C 25 MEM 81 1348 14.2 .530 .000 .237 10.3 25.8 18.1 4.3 1.1 3.9 14.9 15.8 0.8 2.5 3.3 .118 0.2
36 Jae Crowder SF 24 TOT 82 1647 13.9 .517 .382 .259 4.7 14.9 9.7 8.6 2.2 1.2 7.5 17.5 1.9 2.0 3.9 .113 1.1
37 Cole Aldrich C 26 NYK 61 976 18.1 .513 .000 .213 11.6 28.9 20.0 13.3 2.0 5.5 15.2 18.3 0.8 1.4 2.2 .107 0.7
38 Bran Knight PG 23 TOT 63 2035 17.1 .543 .361 .251 1.6 12.0 6.8 27.4 2.3 0.4 16.1 25.9 2.0 2.5 4.5 .106 1.6
39 Reg Jackson PG 24 TOT 77 2268 17.2 .511 .242 .219 2.6 12.9 7.8 34.8 1.4 0.3 14.6 24.6 3.3 1.7 4.9 .104 1.6
40 Mar Belinelli SG 28 SAS 62 1388 12.4 .553 .489 .211 2.2 10.5 6.4 10.3 1.1 0.2 10.6 18.8 1.5 1.4 2.9 .100 0.5
41 Tobias Harris SF 22 ORL 68 2369 16.7 .551 .252 .258 3.4 17.3 10.3 8.8 1.5 1.2 9.8 22.5 3.0 1.8 4.8 .098 1.0


I love your WS/48 list. Have you seen any correlation between WS/48 and contract pricing? What do you see Green getting on the FA market? He has much better stats than Carroll, but I am guessing his contract is going to be $10MM to $12MM vs the $6MM to $8MM that Carroll appears to be headed for.

This is the Randle.
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
4/26/2015  3:51 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:
nixluva wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:I don't believe I am missing your point. I believe you are overstating the effectiveness of the best PGs in this league. For me, the best combination of stats I want when building my team from the offensive perspective is a combination of True Shooting percentage and actually, fouls drawn. Arguably, TS% already includes fouls drawn by turning 2pt plays into 3 point plays, but a guy like Deandre Jordan's TS% will not really show how many fouls he drew cause he misses his free throws A TON. That said, I am fine with that percentage to the extent that the fouls he draws ends up putting the opposing big man on the bench. Defensively, every player has to be considered a strong defender in order to overcome Melo's weaknesses on defense.

So, to counter my opposing dynamic pg, I want a strong interior defender like Deandre Jordan and a 3+D wing that can match with the other team's best offensive threat. Jimmy Butler (not available), Kawhi Leonard (not available), Khris Middleton (not available)...Demarre Carroll seems to be the best available. I am not familiar with Danny Green's defensive prowess, but I would listen. Trying to figure out what happened to Eric Gordon -- he has fallen off the wagon hard. Otherwise, we have to lay and pray and hope Antekoumnpo can be that kind of wing.

I agree that a dynamic PG that gets into the paint and draws fouls is incredibly effective, but I am most concerned with countering opposing wings with my money.I think that there are a lot more available defensive little guys than there are two way big boys. As such, I build my team from the low post and work my way out. A combination of a defensive PG and a strong interior defense can counter that pretty well.

I think this off season we can fill 4 out of 5 roster spots with long term starters. We will need to wait until next year to get the final player and then the bench will fill in afterwards. In this model we get KAT with the 1st pick.

I'd be in love if we finished the offseason with this starting 5, even if we had no real bench after that except for players signed for the vet minimum or rookie contracts:

Langston Galloway ($900k)
Demarre Carroll ($7.5MM)
Carmelo Anthony ($22.875K)
KAT ($4.7MM)
Deandre Jordan ($20.13MM)


Danny Green and Demarre Carroll are very likely targets and depending on how his health come along i'd add Matthews.

I know that it can be tough in gauging certain players which is why I did the WS/48 list which also shows the players Defensive Win Shares and VORP. I'm high on Danny Green because he's a much better defender than people give him credit for. Danny Green is a championship player. Look at his defensive Win Shares and the videos I've posted below.


Rk Player Pos Age Tm G MP PER TS% 3PAr FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% OWS DWS WS WS/48 ▾ VORP
1 DeA. Jordan C 26 LAC 82 2820 21.0 .638 .007 .882 16.2 32.4 24.5 3.2 1.5 5.4 12.8 13.6 7.4 5.4 12.8 .217 4.3
2 Jimmy Butler SG 25 CHI 65 2513 21.3 .583 .212 .508 5.1 11.2 8.2 14.4 2.3 1.0 7.7 21.6 8.2 3.0 11.2 .214 4.2
3 Kawhi Leonard SF 23 SAS 64 2033 22.0 .567 .234 .307 4.8 20.6 12.9 13.0 3.7 1.8 9.4 23.0 4.2 4.4 8.6 .204 4.1
4 Bran. Wright PF 27 TOT 75 1449 20.4 .660 .008 .309 9.6 14.7 12.1 4.4 1.7 5.1 7.6 13.6 4.3 1.8 6.1 .202 2.0
5 M. Gasol C 30 MEM 81 2687 21.7 .558 .016 .410 4.9 21.8 13.4 19.7 1.4 4.0 12.2 24.6 5.5 4.7 10.2 .182 4.6
6 M. Muscala PF 23 ATL 40 502 18.0 .608 .146 .166 12.2 14.8 13.5 8.0 1.6 3.2 11.5 16.7 1.2 0.7 1.9 .179 0.5
7 P. Millsap PF 29 ATL 73 2390 20.1 .565 .232 .362 6.9 20.0 13.6 15.4 2.8 2.4 13.3 23.8 4.0 4.3 8.3 .167 3.7
8 A. Baynes C 28 SAS 70 1122 15.9 .618 .012 .318 11.2 20.7 16.1 4.9 0.7 1.5 14.8 17.8 2.3 1.6 3.9 .166 0.3
9 L. Aldridge PF 29 POR 71 2512 22.8 .528 .074 .256 7.7 22.9 15.5 9.2 1.0 1.9 7.2 30.2 4.9 3.7 8.6 .165 1.4
10 K. Love PF 26 CLE 75 2532 18.8 .562 .412 .337 6.5 26.3 16.6 10.7 1.0 1.2 10.0 21.7 5.8 2.9 8.7 .165 2.5

Rk Player Pos Age Tm G MP PER TS% 3PAr FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% OWS DWS WS WS/48 ▾ VORP
11 Danny Green SG 27 SAS 81 2312 16.5 .596 .619 .172 2.7 13.9 8.4 10.3 2.2 2.8 10.5 17.5 4.0 3.9 7.8 .163 4.1
12 Dray. Green SF 24 GSW 79 2490 16.4 .540 .430 .261 5.1 22.4 14.0 16.1 2.4 2.9 13.5 17.2 3.3 5.2 8.5 .163 4.4
13 A. Ajinca C 26 NOP 68 957 19.9 .595 .000 .301 12.4 25.0 18.7 8.2 1.2 4.0 15.6 21.1 1.9 1.2 3.2 .159 0.5
14 Brook Lopez C 26 BRK 72 2100 22.7 .558 .010 .278 11.5 17.1 14.3 4.5 1.1 4.8 8.6 26.3 4.7 2.2 7.0 .159 1.1
15 B. Biyombo C 22 CHO 64 1243 15.2 .578 .000 .941 13.7 22.6 18.0 2.0 0.7 6.3 16.5 11.6 1.8 2.2 4.0 .155 0.5
16 D. Carroll SF 28 ATL 70 2189 15.9 .603 .466 .277 5.3 13.8 9.7 8.3 2.2 0.7 9.3 16.9 4.3 2.8 7.0 .154 2.7
17 G. Monroe PF 24 DET 69 2137 21.2 .549 .000 .394 11.2 25.1 17.9 11.7 1.9 1.3 13.0 23.9 4.0 2.8 6.8 .153 2.1
18 A. Morrow SG 29 OKC 74 1806 14.8 .604 .528 .145 2.4 9.1 5.8 5.2 1.5 0.5 5.5 16.5 4.4 1.2 5.7 .151 1.2
19 R. Lopez C 26 POR 59 1638 16.2 .574 .002 .291 12.7 13.1 12.9 5.1 0.5 3.7 12.9 15.5 3.2 1.9 5.1 .150 1.7
20 C. Joseph PG 23 SAS 79 1444 15.5 .564 .107 .348 3.5 11.4 7.5 19.7 1.6 0.9 12.4 17.0 2.7 1.8 4.5 .149 1.0

Rk Player Pos Age Tm G MP PER TS% 3PAr FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% OWS DWS WS WS/48 ▾ VORP
21 Tri Thompson PF 23 CLE 82 2194 15.6 .580 .000 .508 14.5 19.7 17.2 2.7 0.8 2.2 12.2 14.0 4.7 2.1 6.8 .148 0.8
22 W. Matthews SG 28 POR 60 2024 16.1 .586 .592 .193 2.1 9.5 5.9 10.8 1.9 0.4 9.0 19.8 4.0 2.2 6.2 .147 3.0
23 Enes Kanter C 22 TOT 75 2135 20.3 .564 .048 .252 14.6 20.5 17.6 4.8 0.9 1.1 12.3 24.7 4.3 2.1 6.4 .145 -0.1
24 Jon. Jerebko PF 27 TOT 75 1230 15.0 .549 .369 .174 8.0 17.2 12.5 9.0 1.9 1.1 9.7 16.2 2.0 1.4 3.5 .135 0.9
25 K. Middleton PF 23 MIL 79 2378 15.6 .563 .308 .180 2.3 14.3 8.4 12.7 2.6 0.4 10.8 19.9 3.2 3.5 6.7 .135 2.0
26 Alexey Shved SG 26 TOT 42 767 19.5 .541 .415 .448 3.3 11.7 7.3 25.7 2.0 0.6 10.7 26.3 1.7 0.5 2.2 .135 0.5
27 Brandon Bass PF 29 BOS 82 1929 16.3 .557 .047 .313 7.8 14.9 11.3 8.6 1.1 1.3 9.6 19.5 3.4 1.9 5.3 .132 0.7
28 Dorell Wright SF 29 POR 48 592 13.4 .525 .568 .221 2.6 17.2 10.0 10.2 1.7 1.3 7.9 17.1 0.7 0.8 1.6 .128 0.4
29 Lavoy Allen PF 25 IND 63 1070 14.9 .493 .000 .157 12.8 20.5 16.7 10.9 0.7 3.1 11.1 15.2 1.3 1.6 2.8 .127 0.8
30 Amir Johnson PF 27 TOR 75 1979 15.4 .603 .089 .249 9.3 17.3 13.3 9.4 1.1 2.4 16.0 15.7 3.5 1.6 5.1 .124 1.9

Rk Player Pos Age Tm G MP PER TS% 3PAr FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% OWS DWS WS WS/48 ▾ VORP
31 Goran Dragic PG 28 TOT 78 2640 17.4 .577 .258 .234 3.5 8.2 5.9 22.8 1.5 0.5 13.5 21.8 5.4 1.4 6.8 .123 2.1
32 Joel Freeland C 27 POR 48 617 12.2 .522 .000 .166 11.0 21.9 16.6 3.8 0.7 2.7 12.4 13.4 0.6 0.9 1.6 .122 0.0
33 Tha Sefolosha SF 30 ATL 52 976 13.8 .506 .313 .233 6.4 19.3 13.1 11.2 2.8 1.8 12.2 14.6 0.8 1.7 2.5 .121 0.8
34 Omer Asik C 28 NOP 76 1982 15.5 .545 .000 .546 14.0 28.8 21.4 5.4 0.8 2.1 15.7 14.0 2.8 2.2 5.0 .120 0.6
35 Kosta Koufos C 25 MEM 81 1348 14.2 .530 .000 .237 10.3 25.8 18.1 4.3 1.1 3.9 14.9 15.8 0.8 2.5 3.3 .118 0.2
36 Jae Crowder SF 24 TOT 82 1647 13.9 .517 .382 .259 4.7 14.9 9.7 8.6 2.2 1.2 7.5 17.5 1.9 2.0 3.9 .113 1.1
37 Cole Aldrich C 26 NYK 61 976 18.1 .513 .000 .213 11.6 28.9 20.0 13.3 2.0 5.5 15.2 18.3 0.8 1.4 2.2 .107 0.7
38 Bran Knight PG 23 TOT 63 2035 17.1 .543 .361 .251 1.6 12.0 6.8 27.4 2.3 0.4 16.1 25.9 2.0 2.5 4.5 .106 1.6
39 Reg Jackson PG 24 TOT 77 2268 17.2 .511 .242 .219 2.6 12.9 7.8 34.8 1.4 0.3 14.6 24.6 3.3 1.7 4.9 .104 1.6
40 Mar Belinelli SG 28 SAS 62 1388 12.4 .553 .489 .211 2.2 10.5 6.4 10.3 1.1 0.2 10.6 18.8 1.5 1.4 2.9 .100 0.5
41 Tobias Harris SF 22 ORL 68 2369 16.7 .551 .252 .258 3.4 17.3 10.3 8.8 1.5 1.2 9.8 22.5 3.0 1.8 4.8 .098 1.0


I love your WS/48 list. Have you seen any correlation between WS/48 and contract pricing? What do you see Green getting on the FA market? He has much better stats than Carroll, but I am guessing his contract is going to be $10MM to $12MM vs the $6MM to $8MM that Carroll appears to be headed for.


I haven't seen any lists showing the correlation between WS/48 and Contracts.
I'm not sure what Green's market value is. Given that it's free agency we're talking about he's gonna get some good money, but I don't think he'll be a max player. My guess is $9-12 mil. Green has been excellent value for the Spurs his contract for 2014-15 is only $4,025,000. My guess is there aren't a lot of team's that will be willing to pay a fortune for a guy like Green who is considered a role player. I also like Carroll so whichever way we end up going i'd be fine with either guy.
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
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4/26/2015  3:57 PM
Check out Eddie when he gets to the money rack. This kid is definitely someone the Knicks should look into.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
mreinman
Posts: 37827
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4/26/2015  3:59 PM
CrushAlot wrote:Check out Eddie when he gets to the money rack. This kid is definitely someone the Knicks should look into.

no thanks on anyone named eddie

so here is what phil is thinking ....
EwingsGlass
Posts: 26033
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Member: #893
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4/26/2015  4:03 PM
mreinman wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Check out Eddie when he gets to the money rack. This kid is definitely someone the Knicks should look into.

no thanks on anyone named eddie

No no. Eddie is ok. Eddy is a problem, though.

This is the Randle.
nixluva
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4/26/2015  4:08 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:
mreinman wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Check out Eddie when he gets to the money rack. This kid is definitely someone the Knicks should look into.

no thanks on anyone named eddie

No no. Eddie is ok. Eddy is a problem, though.


This kid may be the reason Danny Green ends up a Knick. The Spurs always have guys in the pipeline. I was kind of hoping we could pilfer Cory Joseph from them too.
knicks1248
Posts: 42059
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Member: #582
4/27/2015  12:55 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Billups not sold on triangle: Jackson said he plans to use the triangle offense as a selling point with free agents this summer. At least one former NBA player thinks that’s a bad idea.

“I don’t know about that triangle,” ESPN analyst Chauncey Billups said on the “The Knicks Blog with Anthony Donahue” radio show. “The game is just different now. ... Look at the point-guard position right now; these guys are playmakers.

“They come down, they score, they’re playmakers. They need pick-and-rolls. You put one of those guys in the triangle offense, where it’s kind of just slow down, pass, cut -- it’s no real NBA playmaking ability. It’s no pick-and-roll stuff, it’s no pindown to the post, no counteraction. Obviously that offense won a lot of championships. But it was curtailed to the personnel that they had.”

Billups added: “You look at Shaq in the triangle -- there’s really no big man in the game like that today. It’s a guard’s game. The game is small, it’s a guard’s game. I got my reservations about the triangle, I really do.”


This is an absolute fact, neither Towns, or OK4 will thrive in the triangle, and if we don't have a play making PG we will suffer another 17 win season. Just base on some indirect comments, Phil knows this. Watching the playoffs, specifically , Aldridge, Gasol, those guys look for the PnR every time down court, it's the nature of the game.

I even heard shaq, rick fox, kerr, echoing these same words billups said.

Whats even more of a concern, what happens in 2016/17 when phil is gone,


The very essence of the Triangle is to have post players in prime scoring position. I have no idea what you're actually considering "facts" but in truth players like Towns and OK4 should thrive in this system.

1. Bigs get far more touches in this system because the flow of the offense isn't to pound the ball but rather to pass the ball into a post player and cut.

2. The history of Bigs in the Triangle suggests that they can be successful in the offense, since it actually enhances the looks that bigs get. The more skilled the Big the more options they'll have.

3. The Triangle is one of the few offenses that are designed to work with two pivots. Pau and Bynum is an example of this. There is always a low post option on the strong side "Triangle" and a 2 man game called "Pinch Post" on the opposite side where you can run PnR etc. So your PF and C are always involved in the flow of the offense.


I never said the triangle is bad system in general, but in a PG driven league, it doesn't make much sense to run it consistently.

PG driven league? How?

Since 1990, the only point guards worth mentioning that were on championship teams are Parker, Billups and Rondo, who sucks now by the way.

The NBA will always be about stars rather than positions.

My fact has fully debunked your nonsense.


Your kidding right, there are more stars/above avg players at the guard position then any position in the NBA. In the east alone you have to deal with Rose, Wall, Irving, Lowrey, D will, dragic, wade ,teague, then you go west with, curry, klay, harden, parker westbrook, kobe, rubio,Lillard. CP3.


It's a guard driven league dude, and if you don't have one that can defend those top guys, and make them guys sweat on the other end, your not winning many games.

Those guards may not have a bunch of championships, but make no mistake, you have to go through them night in and night out.

SO THERE"S NOTHING NONSENSE ABOUT IT..This ain't the damn 90's, the game has change..WAKE UP. We saw Kidd, and felton get eaten up alive almost every night

Only two of the players you mentioned have rings...both are nearly retired.

You have to play these guys 40 times a season in order to get to the finals

Your point is lost on me for lack of, well, sense. Every team has a PG and a SG. You play 82 games against teams with PGs, not just 40. I guarantee that the team that wins the championship will have a pg. Having a dynamic pg doesn't guaranty wins. Hell, OKC isn't in the playoffs with the best PG in the league.

As I recall, Kidd won 54 games with the Knicks. That point is lost.

There are not more star PGs and SGs than in the past. They just have different names. The only top-10 PG with a ring in the last 15 years is Tony Parker (Take away the Miami Lebron-ettes, and you are left with the Mavericks (and ironically, Jason Kidd, but he was not top 10 with the Maves) with a championship and Big Chief Triangle with a bunch of championships.

So don't even try to tell me that PGs or even SGs win championships. God forbid the Warriors win, well, they have the splash brothers and the triangle.

Your completely missing the point, if were getting crushed every night by an elite pg, how exactly are we to make it to the playoffs. You think we can sure up on every other position, and have a guy like larkin, felton, calderone, prigioni, or some other below avg pg and it wouldn't matter, will be fine.

I don't like scoring pg's at all, but the truth of the matter is that, there are a lot of them in today's game and you can't avoid not having one like back in the days. I mean even in this triangle thing, it was the guards that shine the most.

I don't believe I am missing your point. I believe you are overstating the effectiveness of the best PGs in this league. For me, the best combination of stats I want when building my team from the offensive perspective is a combination of True Shooting percentage and actually, fouls drawn. Arguably, TS% already includes fouls drawn by turning 2pt plays into 3 point plays, but a guy like Deandre Jordan's TS% will not really show how many fouls he drew cause he misses his free throws A TON. That said, I am fine with that percentage to the extent that the fouls he draws ends up putting the opposing big man on the bench. Defensively, every player has to be considered a strong defender in order to overcome Melo's weaknesses on defense.

So, to counter my opposing dynamic pg, I want a strong interior defender like Deandre Jordan and a 3+D wing that can match with the other team's best offensive threat. Jimmy Butler (not available), Kawhi Leonard (not available), Khris Middleton (not available)...Demarre Carroll seems to be the best available. I am not familiar with Danny Green's defensive prowess, but I would listen. Trying to figure out what happened to Eric Gordon -- he has fallen off the wagon hard. Otherwise, we have to lay and pray and hope Antekoumnpo can be that kind of wing.

I agree that a dynamic PG that gets into the paint and draws fouls is incredibly effective, but I am most concerned with countering opposing wings with my money.I think that there are a lot more available defensive little guys than there are two way big boys. As such, I build my team from the low post and work my way out. A combination of a defensive PG and a strong interior defense can counter that pretty well.

I think this off season we can fill 4 out of 5 roster spots with long term starters. We will need to wait until next year to get the final player and then the bench will fill in afterwards. In this model we get KAT with the 1st pick.

I'd be in love if we finished the offseason with this starting 5, even if we had no real bench after that except for players signed for the vet minimum or rookie contracts:

Langston Galloway ($900k)
Demarre Carroll ($7.5MM)
Carmelo Anthony ($22.875K)
KAT ($4.7MM)
Deandre Jordan ($20.13MM)

The way your thinking of building is old school foundation, play in an out is a style of the 90's. I mean how many bigs do you see in the post. PF's are working on the 3 point shots more than anything. If you don't have at least 3 to 4 players on the floor at all times thats can shoot a respectable clip from downtown, your not going far.

It has been in almost every commentators convo about the direct of the league.

ES
nixluva
Posts: 56258
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Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
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4/27/2015  1:12 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Billups not sold on triangle: Jackson said he plans to use the triangle offense as a selling point with free agents this summer. At least one former NBA player thinks that’s a bad idea.

“I don’t know about that triangle,” ESPN analyst Chauncey Billups said on the “The Knicks Blog with Anthony Donahue” radio show. “The game is just different now. ... Look at the point-guard position right now; these guys are playmakers.

“They come down, they score, they’re playmakers. They need pick-and-rolls. You put one of those guys in the triangle offense, where it’s kind of just slow down, pass, cut -- it’s no real NBA playmaking ability. It’s no pick-and-roll stuff, it’s no pindown to the post, no counteraction. Obviously that offense won a lot of championships. But it was curtailed to the personnel that they had.”

Billups added: “You look at Shaq in the triangle -- there’s really no big man in the game like that today. It’s a guard’s game. The game is small, it’s a guard’s game. I got my reservations about the triangle, I really do.”


This is an absolute fact, neither Towns, or OK4 will thrive in the triangle, and if we don't have a play making PG we will suffer another 17 win season. Just base on some indirect comments, Phil knows this. Watching the playoffs, specifically , Aldridge, Gasol, those guys look for the PnR every time down court, it's the nature of the game.

I even heard shaq, rick fox, kerr, echoing these same words billups said.

Whats even more of a concern, what happens in 2016/17 when phil is gone,


The very essence of the Triangle is to have post players in prime scoring position. I have no idea what you're actually considering "facts" but in truth players like Towns and OK4 should thrive in this system.

1. Bigs get far more touches in this system because the flow of the offense isn't to pound the ball but rather to pass the ball into a post player and cut.

2. The history of Bigs in the Triangle suggests that they can be successful in the offense, since it actually enhances the looks that bigs get. The more skilled the Big the more options they'll have.

3. The Triangle is one of the few offenses that are designed to work with two pivots. Pau and Bynum is an example of this. There is always a low post option on the strong side "Triangle" and a 2 man game called "Pinch Post" on the opposite side where you can run PnR etc. So your PF and C are always involved in the flow of the offense.


I never said the triangle is bad system in general, but in a PG driven league, it doesn't make much sense to run it consistently.

PG driven league? How?

Since 1990, the only point guards worth mentioning that were on championship teams are Parker, Billups and Rondo, who sucks now by the way.

The NBA will always be about stars rather than positions.

My fact has fully debunked your nonsense.


Your kidding right, there are more stars/above avg players at the guard position then any position in the NBA. In the east alone you have to deal with Rose, Wall, Irving, Lowrey, D will, dragic, wade ,teague, then you go west with, curry, klay, harden, parker westbrook, kobe, rubio,Lillard. CP3.


It's a guard driven league dude, and if you don't have one that can defend those top guys, and make them guys sweat on the other end, your not winning many games.

Those guards may not have a bunch of championships, but make no mistake, you have to go through them night in and night out.

SO THERE"S NOTHING NONSENSE ABOUT IT..This ain't the damn 90's, the game has change..WAKE UP. We saw Kidd, and felton get eaten up alive almost every night

Only two of the players you mentioned have rings...both are nearly retired.

You have to play these guys 40 times a season in order to get to the finals

Your point is lost on me for lack of, well, sense. Every team has a PG and a SG. You play 82 games against teams with PGs, not just 40. I guarantee that the team that wins the championship will have a pg. Having a dynamic pg doesn't guaranty wins. Hell, OKC isn't in the playoffs with the best PG in the league.

As I recall, Kidd won 54 games with the Knicks. That point is lost.

There are not more star PGs and SGs than in the past. They just have different names. The only top-10 PG with a ring in the last 15 years is Tony Parker (Take away the Miami Lebron-ettes, and you are left with the Mavericks (and ironically, Jason Kidd, but he was not top 10 with the Maves) with a championship and Big Chief Triangle with a bunch of championships.

So don't even try to tell me that PGs or even SGs win championships. God forbid the Warriors win, well, they have the splash brothers and the triangle.

Your completely missing the point, if were getting crushed every night by an elite pg, how exactly are we to make it to the playoffs. You think we can sure up on every other position, and have a guy like larkin, felton, calderone, prigioni, or some other below avg pg and it wouldn't matter, will be fine.

I don't like scoring pg's at all, but the truth of the matter is that, there are a lot of them in today's game and you can't avoid not having one like back in the days. I mean even in this triangle thing, it was the guards that shine the most.

I don't believe I am missing your point. I believe you are overstating the effectiveness of the best PGs in this league. For me, the best combination of stats I want when building my team from the offensive perspective is a combination of True Shooting percentage and actually, fouls drawn. Arguably, TS% already includes fouls drawn by turning 2pt plays into 3 point plays, but a guy like Deandre Jordan's TS% will not really show how many fouls he drew cause he misses his free throws A TON. That said, I am fine with that percentage to the extent that the fouls he draws ends up putting the opposing big man on the bench. Defensively, every player has to be considered a strong defender in order to overcome Melo's weaknesses on defense.

So, to counter my opposing dynamic pg, I want a strong interior defender like Deandre Jordan and a 3+D wing that can match with the other team's best offensive threat. Jimmy Butler (not available), Kawhi Leonard (not available), Khris Middleton (not available)...Demarre Carroll seems to be the best available. I am not familiar with Danny Green's defensive prowess, but I would listen. Trying to figure out what happened to Eric Gordon -- he has fallen off the wagon hard. Otherwise, we have to lay and pray and hope Antekoumnpo can be that kind of wing.

I agree that a dynamic PG that gets into the paint and draws fouls is incredibly effective, but I am most concerned with countering opposing wings with my money.I think that there are a lot more available defensive little guys than there are two way big boys. As such, I build my team from the low post and work my way out. A combination of a defensive PG and a strong interior defense can counter that pretty well.

I think this off season we can fill 4 out of 5 roster spots with long term starters. We will need to wait until next year to get the final player and then the bench will fill in afterwards. In this model we get KAT with the 1st pick.

I'd be in love if we finished the offseason with this starting 5, even if we had no real bench after that except for players signed for the vet minimum or rookie contracts:

Langston Galloway ($900k)
Demarre Carroll ($7.5MM)
Carmelo Anthony ($22.875K)
KAT ($4.7MM)
Deandre Jordan ($20.13MM)

The way your thinking of building is old school foundation, play in an out is a style of the 90's. I mean how many bigs do you see in the post. PF's are working on the 3 point shots more than anything. If you don't have at least 3 to 4 players on the floor at all times thats can shoot a respectable clip from downtown, your not going far.

It has been in almost every commentators convo about the direct of the league.


The Knicks are aware of this. They have been working with their bigs on extending their range. We had Bargs who already could shoot from distance but they had Jason and Acy work on extending their range. They know this helps to spread the floor.
I cant believe Phil is going to TRY and sell the triangle to FA..smh

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