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I cant believe Phil is going to TRY and sell the triangle to FA..smh
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knicks1248
Posts: 42059
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4/24/2015  4:42 PM
ramtour420 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:Great when nobody comes and we resign Bargs for the max you can tell everyone your right.

This is a case where i don't want to be right, I'm just not understanding the thought process.

It's like toyota car Co saying, forget hybrid, lets bring back the horse and carriage, we can really save the consumer a ton of money on gas.

I am sorry but this is a really bad analogy, why not take it a step further and say with the current tecnology we need to explore more space rather then try to help our current planet? Do you see what i did here? one part of analogy has nothing to do with what you are comparing it to. hybrids are to stay because fossil fuels are limited, horse and carriage is no longer viable because our needs have changed so much. Passing, driving to the hole and being open for your shot are timeless concepts and they will will not change no matter how atletic the NBA players get


ok, I can live with that.

But at the end of the day if you line up doesn't resemble
Shaquille O'Neal 27 7 7 320 .550 .537 10.2 23.7 16.9 19.9 0.2 3.4 10.4 28.0 111 108 20.6
2 Kobe Bryant 21 7 7 302 .552 .495 2.2 12.2 7.3 25.7 2.0 3.9 13.4 24.3 109 108 15.7
3 Glen Rice 32 7 7 229 .558 .516 1.1 12.8 7.2 10.2 1.0 0.0 14.8 17.4 100 112 6.9
4 Ron Harper 36 7 7 191 .533 .492 5.2 12.1 8.6 16.2 1.2 2.6 10.2 20.0 107 109 7.6
5 Robert Horry 29 7 0 189 .441 .382 9.5 16.4 12.8 19.6 1.4 2.5 15.7 18.2 97 108 5.8
6 Brian Shaw 33 6 0 85 .796 .813 0.0 11.9 5.9 30.2 3.3 1.9 16.3 17.9 125 108 5.8
7 Derek Fisher 25 7 0 102 .584 .522 1.3 9.8 5.6 13.7 1.1 0.0 7.0 13.4 121 113 3.6
8 Rick Fox 30 7 0 111 .542 .542 1.0 7.1 4.0 18.3 1.0 0.0 20.0 13.2 97 115 1.4
9 A.C. Green 36 7 7 123 .508 .500 5.6 21.6 13.5 3.8 1.4 0.0 11.7 10.3 101 109 2.6
10 Travis Knight 25 3 0 8 1.000 1.000 0.0 15.0 7.2 0.0 0.0 0.0 66.7 18.5 39 119 -0.7
11 Devean George 22 1 0 6 .129 .000 18.6 20.0 19.3 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 32.0 44 121 -1.3
12 John Salley

ES
AUTOADVERT
knicks1248
Posts: 42059
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4/24/2015  4:43 PM
ramtour420 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:Great when nobody comes and we resign Bargs for the max you can tell everyone your right.

This is a case where i don't want to be right, I'm just not understanding the thought process.

It's like toyota car Co saying, forget hybrid, lets bring back the horse and carriage, we can really save the consumer a ton of money on gas.

I am sorry but this is a really bad analogy, why not take it a step further and say with the current tecnology we need to explore more space rather then try to help our current planet? Do you see what i did here? one part of analogy has nothing to do with what you are comparing it to. hybrids are to stay because fossil fuels are limited, horse and carriage is no longer viable because our needs have changed so much. Passing, driving to the hole and being open for your shot are timeless concepts and they will will not change no matter how atletic the NBA players get


ok, I can live with that.

ES
ramtour420
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4/24/2015  4:51 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:Great when nobody comes and we resign Bargs for the max you can tell everyone your right.

This is a case where i don't want to be right, I'm just not understanding the thought process.

It's like toyota car Co saying, forget hybrid, lets bring back the horse and carriage, we can really save the consumer a ton of money on gas.

I am sorry but this is a really bad analogy, why not take it a step further and say with the current tecnology we need to explore more space rather then try to help our current planet? Do you see what i did here? one part of analogy has nothing to do with what you are comparing it to. hybrids are to stay because fossil fuels are limited, horse and carriage is no longer viable because our needs have changed so much. Passing, driving to the hole and being open for your shot are timeless concepts and they will will not change no matter how atletic the NBA players get


ok, I can live with that.

But at the end of the day if you line up doesn't resemble
Shaquille O'Neal 27 7 7 320 .550 .537 10.2 23.7 16.9 19.9 0.2 3.4 10.4 28.0 111 108 20.6
2 Kobe Bryant 21 7 7 302 .552 .495 2.2 12.2 7.3 25.7 2.0 3.9 13.4 24.3 109 108 15.7
3 Glen Rice 32 7 7 229 .558 .516 1.1 12.8 7.2 10.2 1.0 0.0 14.8 17.4 100 112 6.9
4 Ron Harper 36 7 7 191 .533 .492 5.2 12.1 8.6 16.2 1.2 2.6 10.2 20.0 107 109 7.6
5 Robert Horry 29 7 0 189 .441 .382 9.5 16.4 12.8 19.6 1.4 2.5 15.7 18.2 97 108 5.8
6 Brian Shaw 33 6 0 85 .796 .813 0.0 11.9 5.9 30.2 3.3 1.9 16.3 17.9 125 108 5.8
7 Derek Fisher 25 7 0 102 .584 .522 1.3 9.8 5.6 13.7 1.1 0.0 7.0 13.4 121 113 3.6
8 Rick Fox 30 7 0 111 .542 .542 1.0 7.1 4.0 18.3 1.0 0.0 20.0 13.2 97 115 1.4
9 A.C. Green 36 7 7 123 .508 .500 5.6 21.6 13.5 3.8 1.4 0.0 11.7 10.3 101 109 2.6
10 Travis Knight 25 3 0 8 1.000 1.000 0.0 15.0 7.2 0.0 0.0 0.0 66.7 18.5 39 119 -0.7
11 Devean George 22 1 0 6 .129 .000 18.6 20.0 19.3 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 32.0 44 121 -1.3
12 John Salley

well now its a constructive dialogue. Those numbers are good, i'll give you that even tho they have no headers and i can only guess(for some of them) what they mean. Nonetheless I agree with you because I know where you are are coming from. To win a ring you need good and a couple of great players. Players are made great by the systems they play in, by their teammates and by their coaches. Great system? check. Great players? TBD(to be determined), great coach(also to be determined once all players are in place) If we do get some great players in the off-season then it will only be up to Derek Fisher to see if we win a ring with this setup or not.

Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
nixluva
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4/24/2015  4:52 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:Great when nobody comes and we resign Bargs for the max you can tell everyone your right.

This is a case where i don't want to be right, I'm just not understanding the thought process.

It's like toyota car Co saying, forget hybrid, lets bring back the horse and carriage, we can really save the consumer a ton of money on gas.

I am sorry but this is a really bad analogy, why not take it a step further and say with the current tecnology we need to explore more space rather then try to help our current planet? Do you see what i did here? one part of analogy has nothing to do with what you are comparing it to. hybrids are to stay because fossil fuels are limited, horse and carriage is no longer viable because our needs have changed so much. Passing, driving to the hole and being open for your shot are timeless concepts and they will will not change no matter how atletic the NBA players get


ok, I can live with that.

But at the end of the day if you line up doesn't resemble


1 Shaquille O'Neal 27 7 7 320 .550 .537 10.2 23.7 16.9 19.9 0.2 3.4 10.4 28.0 111 108 20.6
2 Kobe Bryant 21 7 7 302 .552 .495 2.2 12.2 7.3 25.7 2.0 3.9 13.4 24.3 109 108 15.7
3 Glen Rice 32 7 7 229 .558 .516 1.1 12.8 7.2 10.2 1.0 0.0 14.8 17.4 100 112 6.9
4 Ron Harper 36 7 7 191 .533 .492 5.2 12.1 8.6 16.2 1.2 2.6 10.2 20.0 107 109 7.6
5 Robert Horry 29 7 0 189 .441 .382 9.5 16.4 12.8 19.6 1.4 2.5 15.7 18.2 97 108 5.8

6 Brian Shaw 33 6 0 85 .796 .813 0.0 11.9 5.9 30.2 3.3 1.9 16.3 17.9 125 108 5.8
7 Derek Fisher 25 7 0 102 .584 .522 1.3 9.8 5.6 13.7 1.1 0.0 7.0 13.4 121 113 3.6
8 Rick Fox 30 7 0 111 .542 .542 1.0 7.1 4.0 18.3 1.0 0.0 20.0 13.2 97 115 1.4
9 A.C. Green 36 7 7 123 .508 .500 5.6 21.6 13.5 3.8 1.4 0.0 11.7 10.3 101 109 2.6
10 Travis Knight 25 3 0 8 1.000 1.000 0.0 15.0 7.2 0.0 0.0 0.0 66.7 18.5 39 119 -0.7
11 Devean George 22 1 0 6 .129 .000 18.6 20.0 19.3 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 32.0 44 121 -1.3
12 John Salley

Phil's teams weren't always great from top to bottom. He was able to take some role players who were limited and have the team as a whole play above the sum of it's parts.

CrushAlot
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4/24/2015  5:00 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I cant believe Phil is going to TRY and sell the triangle to FA


Bigger issues than recruitment IMHO

1) No major "feeder" system is using the Triangle exclusively.

2) No other NBA franchise is using it, thus negating the value of having other players train and develop on another team's dime/cost/time frame/resource pool.

3) Where Phil Jackson will have to heavily shop to fill the roster, Tiers 3, 4 and 5 of free agency, will likely be full of players who are ill suited for the Triangle

The Triangle was Tex Winter's brainchild, but Winters also took for granted, in his prime, of the "four year college player" With the current "One and Done" Generation of player, more players are lacking the polish and fundamentals to really use the Triangle effectively.

For the Knicks to succeed in the Triangle, they must build and train in house, for a team where they have one high draft pick in three years and have to mine FA fringes heavily to just fill out the roster, it's IMHO a plan to fail. How it needs to work is incongruent to what the circumstances lay out for this team currently.

I don't think there was a triangle feeder system for Phil's 11 championships as a coach but I could be wrong. The Knicks do have a d league team and they did switch to a coach that is a triangle disciple in Hodges. Also, I wouldn't jump to tiers 4 and 5 in free agency that quickly. It sounds like the Knicks are hoping to bring in 2-3 guys and they do have 26-30 mil in cap space. I think the choice would be to retain the cap space and flexibility if it came to it.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
CrushAlot
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4/24/2015  5:02 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Billups not sold on triangle: Jackson said he plans to use the triangle offense as a selling point with free agents this summer. At least one former NBA player thinks that’s a bad idea.

“I don’t know about that triangle,” ESPN analyst Chauncey Billups said on the “The Knicks Blog with Anthony Donahue” radio show. “The game is just different now. ... Look at the point-guard position right now; these guys are playmakers.

“They come down, they score, they’re playmakers. They need pick-and-rolls. You put one of those guys in the triangle offense, where it’s kind of just slow down, pass, cut -- it’s no real NBA playmaking ability. It’s no pick-and-roll stuff, it’s no pindown to the post, no counteraction. Obviously that offense won a lot of championships. But it was curtailed to the personnel that they had.”

Billups added: “You look at Shaq in the triangle -- there’s really no big man in the game like that today. It’s a guard’s game. The game is small, it’s a guard’s game. I got my reservations about the triangle, I really do.”


This is an absolute fact, neither Towns, or OK4 will thrive in the triangle, and if we don't have a play making PG we will suffer another 17 win season. Just base on some indirect comments, Phil knows this. Watching the playoffs, specifically , Aldridge, Gasol, those guys look for the PnR every time down court, it's the nature of the game.

I even heard shaq, rick fox, kerr, echoing these same words billups said.

Whats even more of a concern, what happens in 2016/17 when phil is gone,


The very essence of the Triangle is to have post players in prime scoring position. I have no idea what you're actually considering "facts" but in truth players like Towns and OK4 should thrive in this system.

1. Bigs get far more touches in this system because the flow of the offense isn't to pound the ball but rather to pass the ball into a post player and cut.

2. The history of Bigs in the Triangle suggests that they can be successful in the offense, since it actually enhances the looks that bigs get. The more skilled the Big the more options they'll have.

3. The Triangle is one of the few offenses that are designed to work with two pivots. Pau and Bynum is an example of this. There is always a low post option on the strong side "Triangle" and a 2 man game called "Pinch Post" on the opposite side where you can run PnR etc. So your PF and C are always involved in the flow of the offense.


I never said the triangle is bad system in general, but in a PG driven league, it doesn't make much sense to run it consistently.

You said that "This is an absolute fact, neither Towns, or OK4 will thrive in the triangle". That's what I was primarily addressing. I was very specific in my response to this statement.

As for the point you're making about this being a PG driven league, there are still teams in the playoffs that have bigs as key parts of their attack. Duncan, Gasol, Aldridge, Griffin, Dirk, Howard etc. Bigs are still very much present and impactful on the best teams. We do need an upgrade at guard, but that has nothing to do with your 1st point about Towns and OK4 not being successful in the Triangle. Their success in the Triangle isn't really based on PG play. The Triangle has been successful without having a great PG over the decades.

They have eliminated the center position in the all star ballot, and most of the current bigs,are VETs in their 30's

Look at anthony davis, does he even play like any old school big.

You keep saying the triangle doesn't required an all star pg, well that maybe true, but on the other end of the floor, you can't have no calderon/kerr type pg guarding the likes of rose, westbrook, cp3, holiday, ect.


The bulls were a relentless defensive team, that did not rely on offense to win games, see CHARLES SMITH.

How many all 1st defensive teams did shaq, kobe, jordan, pipen and rodman make.

At the end of the day those same guys took majority of the shots, there were no balance scoring attack that the so called triangle produces.

Don't understand your 1st point about the All Star game eliminating Centers. We will most certainly have PF's and Centers on our roster and as I posted above many of the playoff teams have good PF's and C's.

Doesn't matter what Anthony Davis plays like.

In terms of defense on the perimeter we most certainly will be looking to improve our defense at the guard position. That still has nothing to do with how we play offense on the other end. We simply need to improve our defense on the perimeter with guards who can defend at a high level. That was the idea of Galloway and I'm sure they'll be looking for another guard who can defend.

Don't understand your points about The Bulls, Shaq, Kobe, Jordan, Pippen and Rodman in reference to this argument about Towns and OK4 not being successful in the Triangle. How we play offensively has no bearing on our ability to defend top PG's.

You might call me NixLuvaLuva cause I think Nix is dead on. Commentary that the game has passed the triangle by is like saying passing is no longer a necessary cpmponent cause PGs are faster and athletic now. Yeah, maybe the old school iteration of the Bulls Triangle where BJ Armstrong and Luc Longley filled out the roster is less acceptable -- that said Westbrook isn't even in the playoffs (clearly an athletic PG is not the end of the story). Westbrook, Rose, etc. have not won a thing. Since 1999 the Spurs and Lakers have won 14 out of 16 Western conference championships. The Spurs with Tony Parker arguably have a dynamic PG that can get to and finish in the paint, but I would not call him uber-athletic in the Westbrook/Rose sense. The Lakers did not have this. Both teams played system basketball with a stable core of highly trained players.

The Heat put all their talent together and won a couple chips, but even they skipped the PG and C and focused on the wings.

You give me a 3+D PG, an athletic SG that can drive to the basket and play D, a Melo that commits on defense, a Pivot that can pass and play the low post, (and play D), and a defensive rebounding center == ALL with a high enough basketball IQ to react to the defense and there is a championship to be had. Can we have that championship next year? Probably not. But I think the Knicks, properly cultivated a team of players understanding system basketball can share the kind of success that Pop had in San Antonio and PJax had in LA. Two teams, 14 out of 16 is not an aberration. Its a testament to system basketball.

The triangle is a great system that hasn't been proven to work with out the most talented player on both ends of the floor on the face of the earth. Until that happens, they're will be question marks all day.

You also need a core of players that have played within that system for a few years, not players on one yr deals, and have no future with the team

Is there a system that has proven to work without star players?
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
BigDaddyG
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4/24/2015  5:35 PM
There's nothing that says you can't incorporate the pick and roll on a team that relies on the triangle. I remember the Lakers going pick and roll a number of times during close games when Phil coached.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Uptown
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4/24/2015  6:11 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/24/2015  6:12 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Billups not sold on triangle: Jackson said he plans to use the triangle offense as a selling point with free agents this summer. At least one former NBA player thinks that’s a bad idea.

“I don’t know about that triangle,” ESPN analyst Chauncey Billups said on the “The Knicks Blog with Anthony Donahue” radio show. “The game is just different now. ... Look at the point-guard position right now; these guys are playmakers.

“They come down, they score, they’re playmakers. They need pick-and-rolls. You put one of those guys in the triangle offense, where it’s kind of just slow down, pass, cut -- it’s no real NBA playmaking ability. It’s no pick-and-roll stuff, it’s no pindown to the post, no counteraction. Obviously that offense won a lot of championships. But it was curtailed to the personnel that they had.”

Billups added: “You look at Shaq in the triangle -- there’s really no big man in the game like that today. It’s a guard’s game. The game is small, it’s a guard’s game. I got my reservations about the triangle, I really do.”


This is an absolute fact, neither Towns, or OK4 will thrive in the triangle, and if we don't have a play making PG we will suffer another 17 win season. Just base on some indirect comments, Phil knows this. Watching the playoffs, specifically , Aldridge, Gasol, those guys look for the PnR every time down court, it's the nature of the game.

I even heard shaq, rick fox, kerr, echoing these same words billups said.

Whats even more of a concern, what happens in 2016/17 when phil is gone,


The very essence of the Triangle is to have post players in prime scoring position. I have no idea what you're actually considering "facts" but in truth players like Towns and OK4 should thrive in this system.

1. Bigs get far more touches in this system because the flow of the offense isn't to pound the ball but rather to pass the ball into a post player and cut.

2. The history of Bigs in the Triangle suggests that they can be successful in the offense, since it actually enhances the looks that bigs get. The more skilled the Big the more options they'll have.

3. The Triangle is one of the few offenses that are designed to work with two pivots. Pau and Bynum is an example of this. There is always a low post option on the strong side "Triangle" and a 2 man game called "Pinch Post" on the opposite side where you can run PnR etc. So your PF and C are always involved in the flow of the offense.


I never said the triangle is bad system in general, but in a PG driven league, it doesn't make much sense to run it consistently.

You said that "This is an absolute fact, neither Towns, or OK4 will thrive in the triangle". That's what I was primarily addressing. I was very specific in my response to this statement.

As for the point you're making about this being a PG driven league, there are still teams in the playoffs that have bigs as key parts of their attack. Duncan, Gasol, Aldridge, Griffin, Dirk, Howard etc. Bigs are still very much present and impactful on the best teams. We do need an upgrade at guard, but that has nothing to do with your 1st point about Towns and OK4 not being successful in the Triangle. Their success in the Triangle isn't really based on PG play. The Triangle has been successful without having a great PG over the decades.

They have eliminated the center position in the all star ballot, and most of the current bigs,are VETs in their 30's

Look at anthony davis, does he even play like any old school big.

You keep saying the triangle doesn't required an all star pg, well that maybe true, but on the other end of the floor, you can't have no calderon/kerr type pg guarding the likes of rose, westbrook, cp3, holiday, ect.


The bulls were a relentless defensive team, that did not rely on offense to win games, see CHARLES SMITH.

How many all 1st defensive teams did shaq, kobe, jordan, pipen and rodman make.

At the end of the day those same guys took majority of the shots, there were no balance scoring attack that the so called triangle produces.

Don't understand your 1st point about the All Star game eliminating Centers. We will most certainly have PF's and Centers on our roster and as I posted above many of the playoff teams have good PF's and C's.

Doesn't matter what Anthony Davis plays like.

In terms of defense on the perimeter we most certainly will be looking to improve our defense at the guard position. That still has nothing to do with how we play offense on the other end. We simply need to improve our defense on the perimeter with guards who can defend at a high level. That was the idea of Galloway and I'm sure they'll be looking for another guard who can defend.

Don't understand your points about The Bulls, Shaq, Kobe, Jordan, Pippen and Rodman in reference to this argument about Towns and OK4 not being successful in the Triangle. How we play offensively has no bearing on our ability to defend top PG's.

You might call me NixLuvaLuva cause I think Nix is dead on. Commentary that the game has passed the triangle by is like saying passing is no longer a necessary cpmponent cause PGs are faster and athletic now. Yeah, maybe the old school iteration of the Bulls Triangle where BJ Armstrong and Luc Longley filled out the roster is less acceptable -- that said Westbrook isn't even in the playoffs (clearly an athletic PG is not the end of the story). Westbrook, Rose, etc. have not won a thing. Since 1999 the Spurs and Lakers have won 14 out of 16 Western conference championships. The Spurs with Tony Parker arguably have a dynamic PG that can get to and finish in the paint, but I would not call him uber-athletic in the Westbrook/Rose sense. The Lakers did not have this. Both teams played system basketball with a stable core of highly trained players.

The Heat put all their talent together and won a couple chips, but even they skipped the PG and C and focused on the wings.

You give me a 3+D PG, an athletic SG that can drive to the basket and play D, a Melo that commits on defense, a Pivot that can pass and play the low post, (and play D), and a defensive rebounding center == ALL with a high enough basketball IQ to react to the defense and there is a championship to be had. Can we have that championship next year? Probably not. But I think the Knicks, properly cultivated a team of players understanding system basketball can share the kind of success that Pop had in San Antonio and PJax had in LA. Two teams, 14 out of 16 is not an aberration. Its a testament to system basketball.

The triangle is a great system that hasn't been proven to work with out the most talented player on both ends of the floor on the face of the earth. Until that happens, they're will be question marks all day.

You also need a core of players that have played within that system for a few years, not players on one yr deals, and have no future with the team

Is there a system that has proven to work without star players?

^^^^
This. It doesnt matter if you run a Triangle offense, Motion, 4 out and 1 in Read and React, a flex offense, etc...if you aint got talent, you aint gonna win. Its a players league.

SupremeCommander
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4/24/2015  7:31 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/24/2015  7:33 PM
guys go to teams because of systems all of the time... just in different sports. if you have a certain skillset, you are drawn to a different system (college football comes to mind immediately). i think you will see a certain type of player be drawn to the triangle--primarily guys who share the ball. the handicap is obviously limiting the types of players you pursue. the benefit is that guys like Smush Parker looks like the goods.
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knicks1248
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4/24/2015  10:05 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Billups not sold on triangle: Jackson said he plans to use the triangle offense as a selling point with free agents this summer. At least one former NBA player thinks that’s a bad idea.

“I don’t know about that triangle,” ESPN analyst Chauncey Billups said on the “The Knicks Blog with Anthony Donahue” radio show. “The game is just different now. ... Look at the point-guard position right now; these guys are playmakers.

“They come down, they score, they’re playmakers. They need pick-and-rolls. You put one of those guys in the triangle offense, where it’s kind of just slow down, pass, cut -- it’s no real NBA playmaking ability. It’s no pick-and-roll stuff, it’s no pindown to the post, no counteraction. Obviously that offense won a lot of championships. But it was curtailed to the personnel that they had.”

Billups added: “You look at Shaq in the triangle -- there’s really no big man in the game like that today. It’s a guard’s game. The game is small, it’s a guard’s game. I got my reservations about the triangle, I really do.”


This is an absolute fact, neither Towns, or OK4 will thrive in the triangle, and if we don't have a play making PG we will suffer another 17 win season. Just base on some indirect comments, Phil knows this. Watching the playoffs, specifically , Aldridge, Gasol, those guys look for the PnR every time down court, it's the nature of the game.

I even heard shaq, rick fox, kerr, echoing these same words billups said.

Whats even more of a concern, what happens in 2016/17 when phil is gone,


The very essence of the Triangle is to have post players in prime scoring position. I have no idea what you're actually considering "facts" but in truth players like Towns and OK4 should thrive in this system.

1. Bigs get far more touches in this system because the flow of the offense isn't to pound the ball but rather to pass the ball into a post player and cut.

2. The history of Bigs in the Triangle suggests that they can be successful in the offense, since it actually enhances the looks that bigs get. The more skilled the Big the more options they'll have.

3. The Triangle is one of the few offenses that are designed to work with two pivots. Pau and Bynum is an example of this. There is always a low post option on the strong side "Triangle" and a 2 man game called "Pinch Post" on the opposite side where you can run PnR etc. So your PF and C are always involved in the flow of the offense.


I never said the triangle is bad system in general, but in a PG driven league, it doesn't make much sense to run it consistently.

You said that "This is an absolute fact, neither Towns, or OK4 will thrive in the triangle". That's what I was primarily addressing. I was very specific in my response to this statement.

As for the point you're making about this being a PG driven league, there are still teams in the playoffs that have bigs as key parts of their attack. Duncan, Gasol, Aldridge, Griffin, Dirk, Howard etc. Bigs are still very much present and impactful on the best teams. We do need an upgrade at guard, but that has nothing to do with your 1st point about Towns and OK4 not being successful in the Triangle. Their success in the Triangle isn't really based on PG play. The Triangle has been successful without having a great PG over the decades.

They have eliminated the center position in the all star ballot, and most of the current bigs,are VETs in their 30's

Look at anthony davis, does he even play like any old school big.

You keep saying the triangle doesn't required an all star pg, well that maybe true, but on the other end of the floor, you can't have no calderon/kerr type pg guarding the likes of rose, westbrook, cp3, holiday, ect.


The bulls were a relentless defensive team, that did not rely on offense to win games, see CHARLES SMITH.

How many all 1st defensive teams did shaq, kobe, jordan, pipen and rodman make.

At the end of the day those same guys took majority of the shots, there were no balance scoring attack that the so called triangle produces.

Don't understand your 1st point about the All Star game eliminating Centers. We will most certainly have PF's and Centers on our roster and as I posted above many of the playoff teams have good PF's and C's.

Doesn't matter what Anthony Davis plays like.

In terms of defense on the perimeter we most certainly will be looking to improve our defense at the guard position. That still has nothing to do with how we play offense on the other end. We simply need to improve our defense on the perimeter with guards who can defend at a high level. That was the idea of Galloway and I'm sure they'll be looking for another guard who can defend.

Don't understand your points about The Bulls, Shaq, Kobe, Jordan, Pippen and Rodman in reference to this argument about Towns and OK4 not being successful in the Triangle. How we play offensively has no bearing on our ability to defend top PG's.

You might call me NixLuvaLuva cause I think Nix is dead on. Commentary that the game has passed the triangle by is like saying passing is no longer a necessary cpmponent cause PGs are faster and athletic now. Yeah, maybe the old school iteration of the Bulls Triangle where BJ Armstrong and Luc Longley filled out the roster is less acceptable -- that said Westbrook isn't even in the playoffs (clearly an athletic PG is not the end of the story). Westbrook, Rose, etc. have not won a thing. Since 1999 the Spurs and Lakers have won 14 out of 16 Western conference championships. The Spurs with Tony Parker arguably have a dynamic PG that can get to and finish in the paint, but I would not call him uber-athletic in the Westbrook/Rose sense. The Lakers did not have this. Both teams played system basketball with a stable core of highly trained players.

The Heat put all their talent together and won a couple chips, but even they skipped the PG and C and focused on the wings.

You give me a 3+D PG, an athletic SG that can drive to the basket and play D, a Melo that commits on defense, a Pivot that can pass and play the low post, (and play D), and a defensive rebounding center == ALL with a high enough basketball IQ to react to the defense and there is a championship to be had. Can we have that championship next year? Probably not. But I think the Knicks, properly cultivated a team of players understanding system basketball can share the kind of success that Pop had in San Antonio and PJax had in LA. Two teams, 14 out of 16 is not an aberration. Its a testament to system basketball.

The triangle is a great system that hasn't been proven to work with out the most talented player on both ends of the floor on the face of the earth. Until that happens, they're will be question marks all day.

You also need a core of players that have played within that system for a few years, not players on one yr deals, and have no future with the team

Is there a system that has proven to work without star players?

Well if ATL wins it all, that's going to change the direction of how an NBA team is built. When SA won last yr every one started talking about thats the system to go with..

ES
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
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4/24/2015  10:12 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Billups not sold on triangle: Jackson said he plans to use the triangle offense as a selling point with free agents this summer. At least one former NBA player thinks that’s a bad idea.

“I don’t know about that triangle,” ESPN analyst Chauncey Billups said on the “The Knicks Blog with Anthony Donahue” radio show. “The game is just different now. ... Look at the point-guard position right now; these guys are playmakers.

“They come down, they score, they’re playmakers. They need pick-and-rolls. You put one of those guys in the triangle offense, where it’s kind of just slow down, pass, cut -- it’s no real NBA playmaking ability. It’s no pick-and-roll stuff, it’s no pindown to the post, no counteraction. Obviously that offense won a lot of championships. But it was curtailed to the personnel that they had.”

Billups added: “You look at Shaq in the triangle -- there’s really no big man in the game like that today. It’s a guard’s game. The game is small, it’s a guard’s game. I got my reservations about the triangle, I really do.”


This is an absolute fact, neither Towns, or OK4 will thrive in the triangle, and if we don't have a play making PG we will suffer another 17 win season. Just base on some indirect comments, Phil knows this. Watching the playoffs, specifically , Aldridge, Gasol, those guys look for the PnR every time down court, it's the nature of the game.

I even heard shaq, rick fox, kerr, echoing these same words billups said.

Whats even more of a concern, what happens in 2016/17 when phil is gone,


The very essence of the Triangle is to have post players in prime scoring position. I have no idea what you're actually considering "facts" but in truth players like Towns and OK4 should thrive in this system.

1. Bigs get far more touches in this system because the flow of the offense isn't to pound the ball but rather to pass the ball into a post player and cut.

2. The history of Bigs in the Triangle suggests that they can be successful in the offense, since it actually enhances the looks that bigs get. The more skilled the Big the more options they'll have.

3. The Triangle is one of the few offenses that are designed to work with two pivots. Pau and Bynum is an example of this. There is always a low post option on the strong side "Triangle" and a 2 man game called "Pinch Post" on the opposite side where you can run PnR etc. So your PF and C are always involved in the flow of the offense.


I never said the triangle is bad system in general, but in a PG driven league, it doesn't make much sense to run it consistently.

You said that "This is an absolute fact, neither Towns, or OK4 will thrive in the triangle". That's what I was primarily addressing. I was very specific in my response to this statement.

As for the point you're making about this being a PG driven league, there are still teams in the playoffs that have bigs as key parts of their attack. Duncan, Gasol, Aldridge, Griffin, Dirk, Howard etc. Bigs are still very much present and impactful on the best teams. We do need an upgrade at guard, but that has nothing to do with your 1st point about Towns and OK4 not being successful in the Triangle. Their success in the Triangle isn't really based on PG play. The Triangle has been successful without having a great PG over the decades.

They have eliminated the center position in the all star ballot, and most of the current bigs,are VETs in their 30's

Look at anthony davis, does he even play like any old school big.

You keep saying the triangle doesn't required an all star pg, well that maybe true, but on the other end of the floor, you can't have no calderon/kerr type pg guarding the likes of rose, westbrook, cp3, holiday, ect.


The bulls were a relentless defensive team, that did not rely on offense to win games, see CHARLES SMITH.

How many all 1st defensive teams did shaq, kobe, jordan, pipen and rodman make.

At the end of the day those same guys took majority of the shots, there were no balance scoring attack that the so called triangle produces.

Don't understand your 1st point about the All Star game eliminating Centers. We will most certainly have PF's and Centers on our roster and as I posted above many of the playoff teams have good PF's and C's.

Doesn't matter what Anthony Davis plays like.

In terms of defense on the perimeter we most certainly will be looking to improve our defense at the guard position. That still has nothing to do with how we play offense on the other end. We simply need to improve our defense on the perimeter with guards who can defend at a high level. That was the idea of Galloway and I'm sure they'll be looking for another guard who can defend.

Don't understand your points about The Bulls, Shaq, Kobe, Jordan, Pippen and Rodman in reference to this argument about Towns and OK4 not being successful in the Triangle. How we play offensively has no bearing on our ability to defend top PG's.

You might call me NixLuvaLuva cause I think Nix is dead on. Commentary that the game has passed the triangle by is like saying passing is no longer a necessary cpmponent cause PGs are faster and athletic now. Yeah, maybe the old school iteration of the Bulls Triangle where BJ Armstrong and Luc Longley filled out the roster is less acceptable -- that said Westbrook isn't even in the playoffs (clearly an athletic PG is not the end of the story). Westbrook, Rose, etc. have not won a thing. Since 1999 the Spurs and Lakers have won 14 out of 16 Western conference championships. The Spurs with Tony Parker arguably have a dynamic PG that can get to and finish in the paint, but I would not call him uber-athletic in the Westbrook/Rose sense. The Lakers did not have this. Both teams played system basketball with a stable core of highly trained players.

The Heat put all their talent together and won a couple chips, but even they skipped the PG and C and focused on the wings.

You give me a 3+D PG, an athletic SG that can drive to the basket and play D, a Melo that commits on defense, a Pivot that can pass and play the low post, (and play D), and a defensive rebounding center == ALL with a high enough basketball IQ to react to the defense and there is a championship to be had. Can we have that championship next year? Probably not. But I think the Knicks, properly cultivated a team of players understanding system basketball can share the kind of success that Pop had in San Antonio and PJax had in LA. Two teams, 14 out of 16 is not an aberration. Its a testament to system basketball.

The triangle is a great system that hasn't been proven to work with out the most talented player on both ends of the floor on the face of the earth. Until that happens, they're will be question marks all day.

You also need a core of players that have played within that system for a few years, not players on one yr deals, and have no future with the team

Is there a system that has proven to work without star players?

Well if ATL wins it all, that's going to change the direction of how an NBA team is built. When SA won last yr every one started talking about thats the system to go with..


Atlanta is having a tough time with the Nets. They might make the ecf but I don't see them making the finals.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
tj23
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4/24/2015  10:23 PM
The triangle features post ups. It has nothing to do with Ok4. But for a guards game I have the same issues about the triangle. It just needs some tweaking.
nixluva
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4/24/2015  10:37 PM
The fact that ATL plays team ball and wins without a top 15 Star in the NBA actually is a good sign for the Knicks. It just shows that we can build a team that can win playing team ball. It seems more realistic that Phil can bring in solid Free Agents this summer and they don't have to be the rare elite of the NBA.

Phil can focus on talent and fit for how we want to play. Also Phil has been starting to establish our farm system this year. As time goes on we should start stockpiling talent to develop. It's a process that will take time but we have already started the process. The Triangle will not be an issue.

newyorknewyork
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4/25/2015  7:49 AM
tj23 wrote:The triangle features post ups. It has nothing to do with Ok4. But for a guards game I have the same issues about the triangle. It just needs some tweaking.

No matter what system you have you always need a guard or wing who can create with the ball. The Bulls won without an offensively gifted stud big man. There first Championship they had Grant & Cartwright. With Pippen the Small Forward acting as the PG. Its possible for a real PG to be given the same responsibilities as Pippen if he had the game for it. While the SF would take the role of Paxon, Armstrong, Kerr providing efficient shooting and ball movement.

Jordan and Pippen were versatile and dominant though that it reduced the responsibilities of the centers & guards around them. And to be clear my point isn't that we can just go a build a team like that. My point is that it all comes down to balance of skill sets. Positions don't really mean to much.

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
knicks1248
Posts: 42059
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4/25/2015  1:34 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/25/2015  1:38 PM
nixluva wrote:The fact that ATL plays team ball and wins without a top 15 Star in the NBA actually is a good sign for the Knicks. It just shows that we can build a team that can win playing team ball. It seems more realistic that Phil can bring in solid Free Agents this summer and they don't have to be the rare elite of the NBA.

Phil can focus on talent and fit for how we want to play. Also Phil has been starting to establish our farm system this year. As time goes on we should start stockpiling talent to develop. It's a process that will take time but we have already started the process. The Triangle will not be an issue.

Don't forget, ATL's core was in place, they added a couple of pieces to complete the puzzle. If phil can add 5 guys and keeps the rest of the roster..

starters
Reggie
Gallow
Monroe
Melo
Omer

Draft pick
Danny Green
THJ
Bargi
Calderon

Acy
Amdunson
larkin

That team will be able to compete with anyone and deep enough. I would prefer some old school guys at the end of the bench, like a KT or wallace, perkins type, you need those type of professionals in your locker room.

That will surey put us back in the playoff picture

ES
nixluva
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4/25/2015  2:21 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:The fact that ATL plays team ball and wins without a top 15 Star in the NBA actually is a good sign for the Knicks. It just shows that we can build a team that can win playing team ball. It seems more realistic that Phil can bring in solid Free Agents this summer and they don't have to be the rare elite of the NBA.

Phil can focus on talent and fit for how we want to play. Also Phil has been starting to establish our farm system this year. As time goes on we should start stockpiling talent to develop. It's a process that will take time but we have already started the process. The Triangle will not be an issue.

Don't forget, ATL's core was in place, they added a couple of pieces to complete the puzzle. If phil can add 5 guys and keeps the rest of the roster..

starters
Reggie
Gallow
Monroe
Melo
Omer

Draft pick
Danny Green
THJ
Bargi
Calderon

Acy
Amdunson
larkin

That team will be able to compete with anyone and deep enough. I would prefer some old school guys at the end of the bench, like a KT or wallace, perkins type, you need those type of professionals in your locker room.


I've written about this many times. The Hawks in one year added Millsap, Carroll, Schroder and the year previous they had added Korver. Those players comprise a huge part of the core of their top 6 rotation. Their top home grown players being Horford and Teague.


Rk Player Age G GS MP REB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1 Paul Millsap 29 65 65 33.0 8.0 3.0 1.7 0.9 2.4 2.8 16.9
2 Kyle Korver 33 64 64 32.7 4.1 2.5 0.7 0.5 1.5 1.9 12.4
3 DeMarre Carroll 28 58 57 31.4 5.3 1.6 1.3 0.2 0.9 2.3 12.1
4 Jeff Teague 26 62 61 31.0 2.4 7.1 1.7 0.5 2.8 2.0 16.6
5 Al Horford 28 64 64 30.8 7.4 3.3 0.9 1.3 1.3 1.6 15.2
6 Dennis Schroder 21 66 7 19.4 2.0 4.0 0.7 0.0 1.9 1.7 9.4

7 Thabo Sefolosha 30 45 7 19.0 4.3 1.5 1.0 0.5 0.7 1.3 5.1
8 Kent Bazemore 25 61 7 17.1 2.9 1.0 0.7 0.5 1.0 1.7 5.0
9 Pero Antic 32 52 3 16.3 3.0 0.8 0.2 0.3 0.8 2.1 5.3
10 Mike Scott 26 62 0 15.8 2.7 1.0 0.3 0.0 0.5 1.1 7.5
11 Shelvin Mack 24 42 0 14.2 1.3 2.5 0.5 0.0 0.9 0.6 5.3
12 Elton Brand 35 26 2 13.8 3.2 0.6 0.5 0.8 0.4 1.7 2.7
13 John Jenkins 23 17 1 11.0 1.7 0.4 0.2 0.0 0.4 0.6 4.9
14 Mike Muscala 23 26 2 9.1 2.4 0.3 0.2 0.5 0.3 0.9 3.6
15 Adreian Payne 23 3 0 6.3 1.3 0.0 0.3 0.0 0.0 1.3 1.7
JrZyHuStLa
Posts: 25677
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 1/5/2007
Member: #1241

4/25/2015  3:05 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Billups not sold on triangle: Jackson said he plans to use the triangle offense as a selling point with free agents this summer. At least one former NBA player thinks that’s a bad idea.

“I don’t know about that triangle,” ESPN analyst Chauncey Billups said on the “The Knicks Blog with Anthony Donahue” radio show. “The game is just different now. ... Look at the point-guard position right now; these guys are playmakers.

“They come down, they score, they’re playmakers. They need pick-and-rolls. You put one of those guys in the triangle offense, where it’s kind of just slow down, pass, cut -- it’s no real NBA playmaking ability. It’s no pick-and-roll stuff, it’s no pindown to the post, no counteraction. Obviously that offense won a lot of championships. But it was curtailed to the personnel that they had.”

Billups added: “You look at Shaq in the triangle -- there’s really no big man in the game like that today. It’s a guard’s game. The game is small, it’s a guard’s game. I got my reservations about the triangle, I really do.”


This is an absolute fact, neither Towns, or OK4 will thrive in the triangle, and if we don't have a play making PG we will suffer another 17 win season. Just base on some indirect comments, Phil knows this. Watching the playoffs, specifically , Aldridge, Gasol, those guys look for the PnR every time down court, it's the nature of the game.

I even heard shaq, rick fox, kerr, echoing these same words billups said.

Whats even more of a concern, what happens in 2016/17 when phil is gone,


The very essence of the Triangle is to have post players in prime scoring position. I have no idea what you're actually considering "facts" but in truth players like Towns and OK4 should thrive in this system.

1. Bigs get far more touches in this system because the flow of the offense isn't to pound the ball but rather to pass the ball into a post player and cut.

2. The history of Bigs in the Triangle suggests that they can be successful in the offense, since it actually enhances the looks that bigs get. The more skilled the Big the more options they'll have.

3. The Triangle is one of the few offenses that are designed to work with two pivots. Pau and Bynum is an example of this. There is always a low post option on the strong side "Triangle" and a 2 man game called "Pinch Post" on the opposite side where you can run PnR etc. So your PF and C are always involved in the flow of the offense.


I never said the triangle is bad system in general, but in a PG driven league, it doesn't make much sense to run it consistently.

PG driven league? How?

Since 1990, the only point guards worth mentioning that were on championship teams are Parker, Billups and Rondo, who sucks now by the way.

The NBA will always be about stars rather than positions.

My fact has fully debunked your nonsense.

knicks1248
Posts: 42059
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
4/25/2015  5:06 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/25/2015  5:07 PM
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Billups not sold on triangle: Jackson said he plans to use the triangle offense as a selling point with free agents this summer. At least one former NBA player thinks that’s a bad idea.

“I don’t know about that triangle,” ESPN analyst Chauncey Billups said on the “The Knicks Blog with Anthony Donahue” radio show. “The game is just different now. ... Look at the point-guard position right now; these guys are playmakers.

“They come down, they score, they’re playmakers. They need pick-and-rolls. You put one of those guys in the triangle offense, where it’s kind of just slow down, pass, cut -- it’s no real NBA playmaking ability. It’s no pick-and-roll stuff, it’s no pindown to the post, no counteraction. Obviously that offense won a lot of championships. But it was curtailed to the personnel that they had.”

Billups added: “You look at Shaq in the triangle -- there’s really no big man in the game like that today. It’s a guard’s game. The game is small, it’s a guard’s game. I got my reservations about the triangle, I really do.”


This is an absolute fact, neither Towns, or OK4 will thrive in the triangle, and if we don't have a play making PG we will suffer another 17 win season. Just base on some indirect comments, Phil knows this. Watching the playoffs, specifically , Aldridge, Gasol, those guys look for the PnR every time down court, it's the nature of the game.

I even heard shaq, rick fox, kerr, echoing these same words billups said.

Whats even more of a concern, what happens in 2016/17 when phil is gone,


The very essence of the Triangle is to have post players in prime scoring position. I have no idea what you're actually considering "facts" but in truth players like Towns and OK4 should thrive in this system.

1. Bigs get far more touches in this system because the flow of the offense isn't to pound the ball but rather to pass the ball into a post player and cut.

2. The history of Bigs in the Triangle suggests that they can be successful in the offense, since it actually enhances the looks that bigs get. The more skilled the Big the more options they'll have.

3. The Triangle is one of the few offenses that are designed to work with two pivots. Pau and Bynum is an example of this. There is always a low post option on the strong side "Triangle" and a 2 man game called "Pinch Post" on the opposite side where you can run PnR etc. So your PF and C are always involved in the flow of the offense.


I never said the triangle is bad system in general, but in a PG driven league, it doesn't make much sense to run it consistently.

PG driven league? How?

Since 1990, the only point guards worth mentioning that were on championship teams are Parker, Billups and Rondo, who sucks now by the way.

The NBA will always be about stars rather than positions.

My fact has fully debunked your nonsense.


Your kidding right, there are more stars/above avg players at the guard position then any position in the NBA. In the east alone you have to deal with Rose, Wall, Irving, Lowrey, D will, dragic, wade ,teague, then you go west with, curry, klay, harden, parker westbrook, kobe, rubio,Lillard. CP3.


It's a guard driven league dude, and if you don't have one that can defend those top guys, and make them guys sweat on the other end, your not winning many games.

Those guards may not have a bunch of championships, but make no mistake, you have to go through them night in and night out.

SO THERE"S NOTHING NONSENSE ABOUT IT..This ain't the damn 90's, the game has change..WAKE UP. We saw Kidd, and felton get eaten up alive almost every night

ES
EwingsGlass
Posts: 26035
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Member: #893
USA
4/25/2015  9:09 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Billups not sold on triangle: Jackson said he plans to use the triangle offense as a selling point with free agents this summer. At least one former NBA player thinks that’s a bad idea.

“I don’t know about that triangle,” ESPN analyst Chauncey Billups said on the “The Knicks Blog with Anthony Donahue” radio show. “The game is just different now. ... Look at the point-guard position right now; these guys are playmakers.

“They come down, they score, they’re playmakers. They need pick-and-rolls. You put one of those guys in the triangle offense, where it’s kind of just slow down, pass, cut -- it’s no real NBA playmaking ability. It’s no pick-and-roll stuff, it’s no pindown to the post, no counteraction. Obviously that offense won a lot of championships. But it was curtailed to the personnel that they had.”

Billups added: “You look at Shaq in the triangle -- there’s really no big man in the game like that today. It’s a guard’s game. The game is small, it’s a guard’s game. I got my reservations about the triangle, I really do.”


This is an absolute fact, neither Towns, or OK4 will thrive in the triangle, and if we don't have a play making PG we will suffer another 17 win season. Just base on some indirect comments, Phil knows this. Watching the playoffs, specifically , Aldridge, Gasol, those guys look for the PnR every time down court, it's the nature of the game.

I even heard shaq, rick fox, kerr, echoing these same words billups said.

Whats even more of a concern, what happens in 2016/17 when phil is gone,


The very essence of the Triangle is to have post players in prime scoring position. I have no idea what you're actually considering "facts" but in truth players like Towns and OK4 should thrive in this system.

1. Bigs get far more touches in this system because the flow of the offense isn't to pound the ball but rather to pass the ball into a post player and cut.

2. The history of Bigs in the Triangle suggests that they can be successful in the offense, since it actually enhances the looks that bigs get. The more skilled the Big the more options they'll have.

3. The Triangle is one of the few offenses that are designed to work with two pivots. Pau and Bynum is an example of this. There is always a low post option on the strong side "Triangle" and a 2 man game called "Pinch Post" on the opposite side where you can run PnR etc. So your PF and C are always involved in the flow of the offense.


I never said the triangle is bad system in general, but in a PG driven league, it doesn't make much sense to run it consistently.

PG driven league? How?

Since 1990, the only point guards worth mentioning that were on championship teams are Parker, Billups and Rondo, who sucks now by the way.

The NBA will always be about stars rather than positions.

My fact has fully debunked your nonsense.


Your kidding right, there are more stars/above avg players at the guard position then any position in the NBA. In the east alone you have to deal with Rose, Wall, Irving, Lowrey, D will, dragic, wade ,teague, then you go west with, curry, klay, harden, parker westbrook, kobe, rubio,Lillard. CP3.


It's a guard driven league dude, and if you don't have one that can defend those top guys, and make them guys sweat on the other end, your not winning many games.

Those guards may not have a bunch of championships, but make no mistake, you have to go through them night in and night out.

SO THERE"S NOTHING NONSENSE ABOUT IT..This ain't the damn 90's, the game has change..WAKE UP. We saw Kidd, and felton get eaten up alive almost every night

Only two of the players you mentioned have rings...both are nearly retired.

This is the Randle.
nixluva
Posts: 56258
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Member: #758
USA
4/25/2015  9:33 PM
Phil has won with superior SG,SF,PF and C's. He's never had an elite PG. If he had one I'm guessing he would tweak things to feature that player. We still don't have an elite PG and it's likely we won't get one this summer. If you don't have one this is one of the best offenses to run if you don't have an elite PG.
I cant believe Phil is going to TRY and sell the triangle to FA..smh

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