knicks1248
Posts: 42059
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Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
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EwingsGlass wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Billups not sold on triangle: Jackson said he plans to use the triangle offense as a selling point with free agents this summer. At least one former NBA player thinks that’s a bad idea.“I don’t know about that triangle,” ESPN analyst Chauncey Billups said on the “The Knicks Blog with Anthony Donahue” radio show. “The game is just different now. ... Look at the point-guard position right now; these guys are playmakers. “They come down, they score, they’re playmakers. They need pick-and-rolls. You put one of those guys in the triangle offense, where it’s kind of just slow down, pass, cut -- it’s no real NBA playmaking ability. It’s no pick-and-roll stuff, it’s no pindown to the post, no counteraction. Obviously that offense won a lot of championships. But it was curtailed to the personnel that they had.” Billups added: “You look at Shaq in the triangle -- there’s really no big man in the game like that today. It’s a guard’s game. The game is small, it’s a guard’s game. I got my reservations about the triangle, I really do.” This is an absolute fact, neither Towns, or OK4 will thrive in the triangle, and if we don't have a play making PG we will suffer another 17 win season. Just base on some indirect comments, Phil knows this. Watching the playoffs, specifically , Aldridge, Gasol, those guys look for the PnR every time down court, it's the nature of the game.
I even heard shaq, rick fox, kerr, echoing these same words billups said. Whats even more of a concern, what happens in 2016/17 when phil is gone, The very essence of the Triangle is to have post players in prime scoring position. I have no idea what you're actually considering "facts" but in truth players like Towns and OK4 should thrive in this system. 1. Bigs get far more touches in this system because the flow of the offense isn't to pound the ball but rather to pass the ball into a post player and cut. 2. The history of Bigs in the Triangle suggests that they can be successful in the offense, since it actually enhances the looks that bigs get. The more skilled the Big the more options they'll have. 3. The Triangle is one of the few offenses that are designed to work with two pivots. Pau and Bynum is an example of this. There is always a low post option on the strong side "Triangle" and a 2 man game called "Pinch Post" on the opposite side where you can run PnR etc. So your PF and C are always involved in the flow of the offense. I never said the triangle is bad system in general, but in a PG driven league, it doesn't make much sense to run it consistently.
You said that "This is an absolute fact, neither Towns, or OK4 will thrive in the triangle". That's what I was primarily addressing. I was very specific in my response to this statement. As for the point you're making about this being a PG driven league, there are still teams in the playoffs that have bigs as key parts of their attack. Duncan, Gasol, Aldridge, Griffin, Dirk, Howard etc. Bigs are still very much present and impactful on the best teams. We do need an upgrade at guard, but that has nothing to do with your 1st point about Towns and OK4 not being successful in the Triangle. Their success in the Triangle isn't really based on PG play. The Triangle has been successful without having a great PG over the decades. They have eliminated the center position in the all star ballot, and most of the current bigs,are VETs in their 30's Look at anthony davis, does he even play like any old school big. You keep saying the triangle doesn't required an all star pg, well that maybe true, but on the other end of the floor, you can't have no calderon/kerr type pg guarding the likes of rose, westbrook, cp3, holiday, ect. The bulls were a relentless defensive team, that did not rely on offense to win games, see CHARLES SMITH.
How many all 1st defensive teams did shaq, kobe, jordan, pipen and rodman make. At the end of the day those same guys took majority of the shots, there were no balance scoring attack that the so called triangle produces. Don't understand your 1st point about the All Star game eliminating Centers. We will most certainly have PF's and Centers on our roster and as I posted above many of the playoff teams have good PF's and C's. Doesn't matter what Anthony Davis plays like. In terms of defense on the perimeter we most certainly will be looking to improve our defense at the guard position. That still has nothing to do with how we play offense on the other end. We simply need to improve our defense on the perimeter with guards who can defend at a high level. That was the idea of Galloway and I'm sure they'll be looking for another guard who can defend. Don't understand your points about The Bulls, Shaq, Kobe, Jordan, Pippen and Rodman in reference to this argument about Towns and OK4 not being successful in the Triangle. How we play offensively has no bearing on our ability to defend top PG's. You might call me NixLuvaLuva cause I think Nix is dead on. Commentary that the game has passed the triangle by is like saying passing is no longer a necessary cpmponent cause PGs are faster and athletic now. Yeah, maybe the old school iteration of the Bulls Triangle where BJ Armstrong and Luc Longley filled out the roster is less acceptable -- that said Westbrook isn't even in the playoffs (clearly an athletic PG is not the end of the story). Westbrook, Rose, etc. have not won a thing. Since 1999 the Spurs and Lakers have won 14 out of 16 Western conference championships. The Spurs with Tony Parker arguably have a dynamic PG that can get to and finish in the paint, but I would not call him uber-athletic in the Westbrook/Rose sense. The Lakers did not have this. Both teams played system basketball with a stable core of highly trained players. The Heat put all their talent together and won a couple chips, but even they skipped the PG and C and focused on the wings. You give me a 3+D PG, an athletic SG that can drive to the basket and play D, a Melo that commits on defense, a Pivot that can pass and play the low post, (and play D), and a defensive rebounding center == ALL with a high enough basketball IQ to react to the defense and there is a championship to be had. Can we have that championship next year? Probably not. But I think the Knicks, properly cultivated a team of players understanding system basketball can share the kind of success that Pop had in San Antonio and PJax had in LA. Two teams, 14 out of 16 is not an aberration. Its a testament to system basketball. The triangle is a great system that hasn't been proven to work with out the most talented player on both ends of the floor on the face of the earth. Until that happens, they're will be question marks all day. You also need a core of players that have played within that system for a few years, not players on one yr deals, and have no future with the team
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