Bonn1997 wrote:.200 team run by a GM with an unimpressive first 14 months? Obviously the odds are against us and it would be blind optimism to think the answer is yes.
With the cap space and draft pick, there is the possibility of a pleasant surprise though.
If we don't make the playoffs, we hand over another lottery pick.

The record is certainly unimpressive, however are you being intellectually dishonest by not acknowledging that the team's abysmal record is a by-product of both the carry-over roster from last year as well as Phil's eventual in-season decision to tank? It would appear that the Knicks best course of action was to clean house by trading guys that were not part of their future plans and at the same time, tanking to get as high of a draft pick as possible - realizing that a high draft pick is either a tremendous trade asset or valuable in trying to acquire a young cornerstone player.

If you look at Phil's moves - here is the basic net.......

Coaches - replaced Woodson with Fisher and Rambus. So far, not so good - however it would be reasonable to be guarded when measuring Fisher's tenure to date as the roster was in tank mode for a majority of the year.

Players -

Out -
Tyson Chandler
Ray Felton
Jeremy Tyler
Amare Stoudemire
Pablo Prigioni
JR Smith
Iman Shumpert

In (either roster or rights)
Jose Calderon
Shane Larkin
Cleanthony Early
Thanisis
Quincy Acy
Langston Galloway
Travis Wear
Jason Smith
Orlando Sanchez
Lance Thomas
Lou Amundson
Alex Schved
Ricky Ledo
Louis Labeyrie
3 Future 2nd Round Picks

Certainly if you examine the exchange - the "Out" players had no future in NYC either due to expiring contracts, age or otherwise. The "In" players are mostly younger reaches or role playing veterans. So there remains certain potential in the players Phil brought in, while the players he disposed of had exhausted their potential. Given the players on the "out" list and the fact that the Knicks had no cap mobility coming in to this year, not sure how this is so unimpressive of a return for the players given up....with the following exceptions.......

Tyson - certainly the general feeling is that Tyson could have brought a greater return than Calderon, Larkin, Early and Thanisis. Perhaps this is true - however it would have most likely required the Knicks to hold onto Tyson and trade him in-season on the risk of a contending team injury...such as the Cleveland/Denver trade for Mozgov.....however there were other factors at play. Tyson was on a fairly expensive expiring, he is an older player with mileage, he was coming off an injury plagued inconsistent season and he was unhappy. Further, he was not in the Knicks future plans. So the Knicks might have kept him and played better this year - only to lose their high pick positioning for only a slight trade return upgrade (think late round first rounder) .....or lose him to Free Agency for nothing at all.

Melo - the resigning of Melo was controversial given his price tag and eventual injury. The benefit of resigning Melo is that they retained an asset who can be used to either produce on the court or can be eventually traded for other assets (assuming Melo is convinced to waive his no-trade - which would be more likely if the team continues to not play well). The drawback to resigning Melo was that he takes up significant cap space which can be used during a rebuild to sign other players. It was certainly a risk, but it is difficult at this point to definitively say if it was the correct move or not. For instance, if Melo comes back plays well and helps the team make the playoffs or is traded for assets - it is a positive. If Melo is beset by dramatic injuries ala Amare, then it certainly will be a negative. Only time will tell.

Calderon - everyone is worried about Calderon's cap hit for the coming 2-3 years. However he was injured and can be stretched if needed to make roster room for a FA signing. Further with the Cap expansions in out years - his hit will be relatively insignificant. Also, he did play injured for much of the time he was on the court - if he is retained and comes back as a solid bench player, it will negate much of the bad press in his acquisition, given that who he was traded for (Tyson) is a FA on to his next contract.

So I am unclear how anyone can say that the first 14 months has been unimpressive. Perhaps you are only measuring a year at a time. However it would seem more prudent to take into account that this year turned out to be a staging for future years in terms of roster moves. Consider that if only one of the players that Phil brought in, such as Galloway, turns out to be an above average NBA player - he is ahead of the game considering he gave up guys who were not in future plans or did not perform well in NY.

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:.200 team run by a GM with an unimpressive first 14 months? Obviously the odds are against us and it would be blind optimism to think the answer is yes.
With the cap space and draft pick, there is the possibility of a pleasant surprise though.
If we don't make the playoffs, we hand over another lottery pick.

The record is certainly unimpressive, however are you being intellectually dishonest by not acknowledging that the team's abysmal record is a by-product of both the carry-over roster from last year as well as Phil's eventual in-season decision to tank? It would appear that the Knicks best course of action was to clean house by trading guys that were not part of their future plans and at the same time, tanking to get as high of a draft pick as possible - realizing that a high draft pick is either a tremendous trade asset or valuable in trying to acquire a young cornerstone player.

If you look at Phil's moves - here is the basic net.......

Coaches - replaced Woodson with Fisher and Rambus. So far, not so good - however it would be reasonable to be guarded when measuring Fisher's tenure to date as the roster was in tank mode for a majority of the year.

Players -

Out -
Tyson Chandler
Ray Felton
Jeremy Tyler
Amare Stoudemire
Pablo Prigioni
JR Smith
Iman Shumpert

In (either roster or rights)
Jose Calderon
Shane Larkin
Cleanthony Early
Thanisis
Quincy Acy
Langston Galloway
Travis Wear
Jason Smith
Orlando Sanchez
Lance Thomas
Lou Amundson
Alex Schved
Ricky Ledo
Louis Labeyrie
3 Future 2nd Round Picks

Certainly if you examine the exchange - the "Out" players had no future in NYC either due to expiring contracts, age or otherwise. The "In" players are mostly younger reaches or role playing veterans. So there remains certain potential in the players Phil brought in, while the players he disposed of had exhausted their potential. Given the players on the "out" list and the fact that the Knicks had no cap mobility coming in to this year, not sure how this is so unimpressive of a return for the players given up....with the following exceptions.......

Tyson - certainly the general feeling is that Tyson could have brought a greater return than Calderon, Larkin, Early and Thanisis. Perhaps this is true - however it would have most likely required the Knicks to hold onto Tyson and trade him in-season on the risk of a contending team injury...such as the Cleveland/Denver trade for Mozgov.....however there were other factors at play. Tyson was on a fairly expensive expiring, he is an older player with mileage, he was coming off an injury plagued inconsistent season and he was unhappy. Further, he was not in the Knicks future plans. So the Knicks might have kept him and played better this year - only to lose their high pick positioning for only a slight trade return upgrade (think late round first rounder) .....or lose him to Free Agency for nothing at all.

Melo - the resigning of Melo was controversial given his price tag and eventual injury. The benefit of resigning Melo is that they retained an asset who can be used to either produce on the court or can be eventually traded for other assets (assuming Melo is convinced to waive his no-trade - which would be more likely if the team continues to not play well). The drawback to resigning Melo was that he takes up significant cap space which can be used during a rebuild to sign other players. It was certainly a risk, but it is difficult at this point to definitively say if it was the correct move or not. For instance, if Melo comes back plays well and helps the team make the playoffs or is traded for assets - it is a positive. If Melo is beset by dramatic injuries ala Amare, then it certainly will be a negative. Only time will tell.

Calderon - everyone is worried about Calderon's cap hit for the coming 2-3 years. However he was injured and can be stretched if needed to make roster room for a FA signing. Further with the Cap expansions in out years - his hit will be relatively insignificant. Also, he did play injured for much of the time he was on the court - if he is retained and comes back as a solid bench player, it will negate much of the bad press in his acquisition, given that who he was traded for (Tyson) is a FA on to his next contract.

So I am unclear how anyone can say that the first 14 months has been unimpressive. Perhaps you are only measuring a year at a time. However it would seem more prudent to take into account that this year turned out to be a staging for future years in terms of roster moves. Consider that if only one of the players that Phil brought in, such as Galloway, turns out to be an above average NBA player - he is ahead of the game considering he gave up guys who were not in future plans or did not perform well in NY.

I think there is a tendency to judge Phil's acquisitions prematurely. We have a lot of 1st and 2nd year players that still need to fully develop. San Antonio always finds good role players and stick with them for a bit as they develop in their system, but what makes it all work is that they already have their top rotation set. Phil has yet to put his top rotation together. When he does then all the role players fall into their roles and look much better. That's usually how it works with role players. You have your top 6 rotation which carries the load and the role players fill in behind them.

Bucks, Nets Celtics. The Knicks very well could push one of those out, I doubt it being the Bucks as they made the playoffs WITHOUT Jabari Parker and he should be returning next season, and that team does have cap space available. The Nets probably dont make it, but how about Indy with Paul George back? Should be able to pencil that as possible. So the spot to be concerned with would be Boston.

I honestly if everything goes normal, I only see 1 spot to grab, and that team has similar chances to get really good fast as they have quite a few picks and talent to work with and a really good coach so far.

As a betting man, I say no, the Knicks dont make it, but with a solid offseason it's possible, and honestly it's pivotal that they do.

knicks1248 wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

FireWoodson wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I think he's basically asking, Based on what you have seen so far,...phil ...fisher ....

You got it, knicks1248. Not exactly a high concept question. Didn't realize it would throw some people here for a loop.

Glad to see the two morons supporting each other. Guess somebody's gotta do it.

Do you ride a yellow short bus to work, or school..that would make you a slow learner..retard.

Everything doesn't always have to be on the surface to understand the question.

Do you trust the abilities of fish and phil to build a playoff team next season?

I trust Phil and Fish to lead the team, to draft the best player available, and to add complementary pieces via free agency. I trust them to acquire players with a team-first attitude. I trust them to teach fundamentals, not just re: hoops, but also about character, patience, perseverance, discipline, and integrity - characteristics of professionalism and a winning culture.

I also trust them to implement the triangle effectively. I trust them to teach rather than dictate, to reward those who demonstrate an understanding of the team's direction and who elevate the team's identity. I expect Fisher to grow as a coach, and Phil to imbue in Fisher the confidence to weather any storms invented by the media (and disgruntled fans like you) to sell papers.

The playoffs next season? Da phuck I care about that at this stage? I want to build a lasting identity, a culture of winning, and the character to eventually contend for a championship. I am sick of idiots like you and your ilk who simplify everything to "where's the chip?" You are exactly the sort of fan that Dolan caters to and who make success so difficult to achieve in NYC.

I detest your attitude and would fire both of you if I could.

What your saying is what every knick fan alive would like to see, and is actually hoping for. But phil has change his tune almost every other state of the knicks address.

At one point he talked about building through the draft, how do you do that with one pick in 2 yrs, then he said he is willing to trade the pick if it's the 5th pick.

Earlier he talk about getting a top FA, then he said no, were not chasing talent were going after fit, which is cool. But here's the thing, every news outlet that was at the recent press conference came away feeling that phil will be here for a yr or 2 at best.

You guys always think that I'm against phil and fisher, but I'm not..I just go by what I see and here, you guys go by what you hope happens,like this franchise has always been one to follow through. I never bashed walsh, or MDA when everybody else where killing them. I was as optimistic as one can possibly be, AKA Nix..lol. But it's really hard for me to look at this current situation with any optimistic thinking.

Your calling me an idiot for not trusting in phil like he's done something for me to be optimistic about. If anything you should understand how the doubters feel after experiencing the worst season in 56 yrs. It's great to be optimistic and feel like were headed in the right direction, but until we draft a #1 or 2 pick, and grab a top FA and some sold pieces around melo, why should i support him like he's the best thing since slice bread.

EVERYONE here knows that a pres/gm/coach has a 3 yr window

I have to disagree with your takes on Phil. He has always said he was looking at signing 2-3 free agents. He also said if the Knicks got the fifth pick he might consider trading it but then elaborated and said they wanted to draft a guy that would be a Knick for 15 years. The media went nuts about what was far from anything definitive about trading the pick. Isoa tweeted something about gms lining up outside the Knicks door to discuss trades. Phil is doing things differently but some in the media want to spin it that the Knicks are the same mismanaged stupid franchise as they had been.

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

FireWoodson wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I think he's basically asking, Based on what you have seen so far,...phil ...fisher ....

You got it, knicks1248. Not exactly a high concept question. Didn't realize it would throw some people here for a loop.

Glad to see the two morons supporting each other. Guess somebody's gotta do it.

Do you ride a yellow short bus to work, or school..that would make you a slow learner..retard.

Everything doesn't always have to be on the surface to understand the question.

Do you trust the abilities of fish and phil to build a playoff team next season?

I trust Phil and Fish to lead the team, to draft the best player available, and to add complementary pieces via free agency. I trust them to acquire players with a team-first attitude. I trust them to teach fundamentals, not just re: hoops, but also about character, patience, perseverance, discipline, and integrity - characteristics of professionalism and a winning culture.

I also trust them to implement the triangle effectively. I trust them to teach rather than dictate, to reward those who demonstrate an understanding of the team's direction and who elevate the team's identity. I expect Fisher to grow as a coach, and Phil to imbue in Fisher the confidence to weather any storms invented by the media (and disgruntled fans like you) to sell papers.

The playoffs next season? Da phuck I care about that at this stage? I want to build a lasting identity, a culture of winning, and the character to eventually contend for a championship. I am sick of idiots like you and your ilk who simplify everything to "where's the chip?" You are exactly the sort of fan that Dolan caters to and who make success so difficult to achieve in NYC.

I detest your attitude and would fire both of you if I could.

What your saying is what every knick fan alive would like to see, and is actually hoping for. But phil has change his tune almost every other state of the knicks address.

At one point he talked about building through the draft, how do you do that with one pick in 2 yrs, then he said he is willing to trade the pick if it's the 5th pick.

Earlier he talk about getting a top FA, then he said no, were not chasing talent were going after fit, which is cool. But here's the thing, every news outlet that was at the recent press conference came away feeling that phil will be here for a yr or 2 at best.

You guys always think that I'm against phil and fisher, but I'm not..I just go by what I see and here, you guys go by what you hope happens,like this franchise has always been one to follow through. I never bashed walsh, or MDA when everybody else where killing them. I was as optimistic as one can possibly be, AKA Nix..lol. But it's really hard for me to look at this current situation with any optimistic thinking.

Your calling me an idiot for not trusting in phil like he's done something for me to be optimistic about. If anything you should understand how the doubters feel after experiencing the worst season in 56 yrs. It's great to be optimistic and feel like were headed in the right direction, but until we draft a #1 or 2 pick, and grab a top FA and some sold pieces around melo, why should i support him like he's the best thing since slice bread.

EVERYONE here knows that a pres/gm/coach has a 3 yr window

I have to disagree with your takes on Phil. He has always said he was looking at signing 2-3 free agents. He also said if the Knicks got the fifth pick he might consider trading it but then elaborated and said they wanted to draft a guy that would be a Knick for 15 years. The media went nuts about what was far from anything definitive about trading the pick. Isoa tweeted something about gms lining up outside the Knicks door to discuss trades. Phil is doing things differently but some in the media want to spin it that the Knicks are the same mismanaged stupid franchise as they had been.

I'm sure every team that picks a top 5 pick is hoping to retain that player for 10 to 15 yrs, but this isn't the 80's/90's. since the 2000's no player as been on the same team that drafted him, lets talk reality. EVEN labron left his home town team, lets not live in a cloud here.

You have to build a team that can compete right away or else coaches get fired, GM's get replace, and players bounce. That's what I mean by phil living in the past, other than kobe, dirk, duncan, parker, (90's draftees) there isn't a player in this league that has been on his team for more than to 7 yrs. Of course we would love to have a franchise talent like EWING, but the mindset of today's player ain't like it was 15 20 yrs ago. Contracts are getting shorter, and the money is getting larger

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

FireWoodson wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I think he's basically asking, Based on what you have seen so far,...phil ...fisher ....

You got it, knicks1248. Not exactly a high concept question. Didn't realize it would throw some people here for a loop.

Glad to see the two morons supporting each other. Guess somebody's gotta do it.

Do you ride a yellow short bus to work, or school..that would make you a slow learner..retard.

Everything doesn't always have to be on the surface to understand the question.

Do you trust the abilities of fish and phil to build a playoff team next season?

I trust Phil and Fish to lead the team, to draft the best player available, and to add complementary pieces via free agency. I trust them to acquire players with a team-first attitude. I trust them to teach fundamentals, not just re: hoops, but also about character, patience, perseverance, discipline, and integrity - characteristics of professionalism and a winning culture.

I also trust them to implement the triangle effectively. I trust them to teach rather than dictate, to reward those who demonstrate an understanding of the team's direction and who elevate the team's identity. I expect Fisher to grow as a coach, and Phil to imbue in Fisher the confidence to weather any storms invented by the media (and disgruntled fans like you) to sell papers.

The playoffs next season? Da phuck I care about that at this stage? I want to build a lasting identity, a culture of winning, and the character to eventually contend for a championship. I am sick of idiots like you and your ilk who simplify everything to "where's the chip?" You are exactly the sort of fan that Dolan caters to and who make success so difficult to achieve in NYC.

I detest your attitude and would fire both of you if I could.

What your saying is what every knick fan alive would like to see, and is actually hoping for. But phil has change his tune almost every other state of the knicks address.

At one point he talked about building through the draft, how do you do that with one pick in 2 yrs, then he said he is willing to trade the pick if it's the 5th pick.

Earlier he talk about getting a top FA, then he said no, were not chasing talent were going after fit, which is cool. But here's the thing, every news outlet that was at the recent press conference came away feeling that phil will be here for a yr or 2 at best.

You guys always think that I'm against phil and fisher, but I'm not..I just go by what I see and here, you guys go by what you hope happens,like this franchise has always been one to follow through. I never bashed walsh, or MDA when everybody else where killing them. I was as optimistic as one can possibly be, AKA Nix..lol. But it's really hard for me to look at this current situation with any optimistic thinking.

Your calling me an idiot for not trusting in phil like he's done something for me to be optimistic about. If anything you should understand how the doubters feel after experiencing the worst season in 56 yrs. It's great to be optimistic and feel like were headed in the right direction, but until we draft a #1 or 2 pick, and grab a top FA and some sold pieces around melo, why should i support him like he's the best thing since slice bread.

EVERYONE here knows that a pres/gm/coach has a 3 yr window

I have to disagree with your takes on Phil. He has always said he was looking at signing 2-3 free agents. He also said if the Knicks got the fifth pick he might consider trading it but then elaborated and said they wanted to draft a guy that would be a Knick for 15 years. The media went nuts about what was far from anything definitive about trading the pick. Isoa tweeted something about gms lining up outside the Knicks door to discuss trades. Phil is doing things differently but some in the media want to spin it that the Knicks are the same mismanaged stupid franchise as they had been.

I'm sure every team that picks a top 5 pick is hoping to retain that player for 10 to 15 yrs, but this isn't the 80's/90's. since the 2000's no player as been on the same team that drafted him, lets talk reality. EVEN labron left his home town team, lets not live in a cloud here.

You have to build a team that can compete right away or else coaches get fired, GM's get replace, and players bounce. That's what I mean by phil living in the past, other than kobe, dirk, duncan, parker, (90's draftees) there isn't a player in this league that has been on his team for more than to 7 yrs. Of course we would love to have a franchise talent like EWING, but the mindset of today's player ain't like it was 15 20 yrs ago. Contracts are getting shorter, and the money is getting larger

John Wall? Steph Curry? Blake Griffin? KD?

Come on, man. WTF are you talking about>

Bonn1997 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:.200 team run by a GM with an unimpressive first 14 months? Obviously the odds are against us and it would be blind optimism to think the answer is yes.
With the cap space and draft pick, there is the possibility of a pleasant surprise though.
If we don't make the playoffs, we hand over another lottery pick.

The record is certainly unimpressive, however are you being intellectually dishonest by not acknowledging that the team's abysmal record is a by-product of both the carry-over roster from last year as well as Phil's eventual in-season decision to tank? It would appear that the Knicks best course of action was to clean house by trading guys that were not part of their future plans and at the same time, tanking to get as high of a draft pick as possible - realizing that a high draft pick is either a tremendous trade asset or valuable in trying to acquire a young cornerstone player.

If you look at Phil's moves - here is the basic net.......

Coaches - replaced Woodson with Fisher and Rambus. So far, not so good - however it would be reasonable to be guarded when measuring Fisher's tenure to date as the roster was in tank mode for a majority of the year.

Players -

Out -
Tyson Chandler
Ray Felton
Jeremy Tyler
Amare Stoudemire
Pablo Prigioni
JR Smith
Iman Shumpert

In (either roster or rights)
Jose Calderon
Shane Larkin
Cleanthony Early
Thanisis
Quincy Acy
Langston Galloway
Travis Wear
Jason Smith
Orlando Sanchez
Lance Thomas
Lou Amundson
Alex Schved
Ricky Ledo
Louis Labeyrie
3 Future 2nd Round Picks

Certainly if you examine the exchange - the "Out" players had no future in NYC either due to expiring contracts, age or otherwise. The "In" players are mostly younger reaches or role playing veterans. So there remains certain potential in the players Phil brought in, while the players he disposed of had exhausted their potential. Given the players on the "out" list and the fact that the Knicks had no cap mobility coming in to this year, not sure how this is so unimpressive of a return for the players given up....with the following exceptions.......

Tyson - certainly the general feeling is that Tyson could have brought a greater return than Calderon, Larkin, Early and Thanisis. Perhaps this is true - however it would have most likely required the Knicks to hold onto Tyson and trade him in-season on the risk of a contending team injury...such as the Cleveland/Denver trade for Mozgov.....however there were other factors at play. Tyson was on a fairly expensive expiring, he is an older player with mileage, he was coming off an injury plagued inconsistent season and he was unhappy. Further, he was not in the Knicks future plans. So the Knicks might have kept him and played better this year - only to lose their high pick positioning for only a slight trade return upgrade (think late round first rounder) .....or lose him to Free Agency for nothing at all.

Melo - the resigning of Melo was controversial given his price tag and eventual injury. The benefit of resigning Melo is that they retained an asset who can be used to either produce on the court or can be eventually traded for other assets (assuming Melo is convinced to waive his no-trade - which would be more likely if the team continues to not play well). The drawback to resigning Melo was that he takes up significant cap space which can be used during a rebuild to sign other players. It was certainly a risk, but it is difficult at this point to definitively say if it was the correct move or not. For instance, if Melo comes back plays well and helps the team make the playoffs or is traded for assets - it is a positive. If Melo is beset by dramatic injuries ala Amare, then it certainly will be a negative. Only time will tell.

Calderon - everyone is worried about Calderon's cap hit for the coming 2-3 years. However he was injured and can be stretched if needed to make roster room for a FA signing. Further with the Cap expansions in out years - his hit will be relatively insignificant. Also, he did play injured for much of the time he was on the court - if he is retained and comes back as a solid bench player, it will negate much of the bad press in his acquisition, given that who he was traded for (Tyson) is a FA on to his next contract.

So I am unclear how anyone can say that the first 14 months has been unimpressive. Perhaps you are only measuring a year at a time. However it would seem more prudent to take into account that this year turned out to be a staging for future years in terms of roster moves. Consider that if only one of the players that Phil brought in, such as Galloway, turns out to be an above average NBA player - he is ahead of the game considering he gave up guys who were not in future plans or did not perform well in NY.

Our .207 record is a carry over from last year's .451 team? That's a tough argument to sell. I don't think the team was ever tanking. If they were, they wouldn't have pulled ahead of Minn. Phil did trade veterans but you can't use that as an excuse for the .200 record. The team was around .200 (actually below .200) before those trades.

WaltLongmire wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

FireWoodson wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I think he's basically asking, Based on what you have seen so far,...phil ...fisher ....

You got it, knicks1248. Not exactly a high concept question. Didn't realize it would throw some people here for a loop.

Glad to see the two morons supporting each other. Guess somebody's gotta do it.

Do you ride a yellow short bus to work, or school..that would make you a slow learner..retard.

Everything doesn't always have to be on the surface to understand the question.

Do you trust the abilities of fish and phil to build a playoff team next season?

I trust Phil and Fish to lead the team, to draft the best player available, and to add complementary pieces via free agency. I trust them to acquire players with a team-first attitude. I trust them to teach fundamentals, not just re: hoops, but also about character, patience, perseverance, discipline, and integrity - characteristics of professionalism and a winning culture.

I also trust them to implement the triangle effectively. I trust them to teach rather than dictate, to reward those who demonstrate an understanding of the team's direction and who elevate the team's identity. I expect Fisher to grow as a coach, and Phil to imbue in Fisher the confidence to weather any storms invented by the media (and disgruntled fans like you) to sell papers.

The playoffs next season? Da phuck I care about that at this stage? I want to build a lasting identity, a culture of winning, and the character to eventually contend for a championship. I am sick of idiots like you and your ilk who simplify everything to "where's the chip?" You are exactly the sort of fan that Dolan caters to and who make success so difficult to achieve in NYC.

I detest your attitude and would fire both of you if I could.

What your saying is what every knick fan alive would like to see, and is actually hoping for. But phil has change his tune almost every other state of the knicks address.

At one point he talked about building through the draft, how do you do that with one pick in 2 yrs, then he said he is willing to trade the pick if it's the 5th pick.

Earlier he talk about getting a top FA, then he said no, were not chasing talent were going after fit, which is cool. But here's the thing, every news outlet that was at the recent press conference came away feeling that phil will be here for a yr or 2 at best.

You guys always think that I'm against phil and fisher, but I'm not..I just go by what I see and here, you guys go by what you hope happens,like this franchise has always been one to follow through. I never bashed walsh, or MDA when everybody else where killing them. I was as optimistic as one can possibly be, AKA Nix..lol. But it's really hard for me to look at this current situation with any optimistic thinking.

Your calling me an idiot for not trusting in phil like he's done something for me to be optimistic about. If anything you should understand how the doubters feel after experiencing the worst season in 56 yrs. It's great to be optimistic and feel like were headed in the right direction, but until we draft a #1 or 2 pick, and grab a top FA and some sold pieces around melo, why should i support him like he's the best thing since slice bread.

EVERYONE here knows that a pres/gm/coach has a 3 yr window

I have to disagree with your takes on Phil. He has always said he was looking at signing 2-3 free agents. He also said if the Knicks got the fifth pick he might consider trading it but then elaborated and said they wanted to draft a guy that would be a Knick for 15 years. The media went nuts about what was far from anything definitive about trading the pick. Isoa tweeted something about gms lining up outside the Knicks door to discuss trades. Phil is doing things differently but some in the media want to spin it that the Knicks are the same mismanaged stupid franchise as they had been.

I'm sure every team that picks a top 5 pick is hoping to retain that player for 10 to 15 yrs, but this isn't the 80's/90's. since the 2000's no player as been on the same team that drafted him, lets talk reality. EVEN labron left his home town team, lets not live in a cloud here.

You have to build a team that can compete right away or else coaches get fired, GM's get replace, and players bounce. That's what I mean by phil living in the past, other than kobe, dirk, duncan, parker, (90's draftees) there isn't a player in this league that has been on his team for more than to 7 yrs. Of course we would love to have a franchise talent like EWING, but the mindset of today's player ain't like it was 15 20 yrs ago. Contracts are getting shorter, and the money is getting larger

John Wall? Steph Curry? Blake Griffin? KD?

Come on, man. WTF are you talking about>

Wall Curry and Blake havent even been in the league 7 years. As far as KD goes, i dont see him staying in OKC his whole career either.

Not being critical, at all, but if this is really the case, should teams would be more willing to consider the older players in a draft because they are more NBA ready and won't take as long to develop. If you take a 21 or 22 year old kid, and you think he'll only stay for more than 8 years, you have a guy who can help you sooner, rather than later, and someone who, even after 8 years, will still be in his "prime."

Just a thought.

But yeah, the above poster did hit that point home, very few if any players currently have been on the drafted teams more than 7 years outside of the ones listed. idid immediately think of Wade though. None is inaccurate, but it is very few.