yellowboy90 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Blocking shots, rebounding, and shooting are skill sets that Towns have and can rely on. However, I have no problem with people having Towns ranked 2 or 3, to each their own.

That's a skill set that will be consistent. Blocking shots, rebounding and defensive energy. You can count on Towns bringing that every game, regardless if he's scoring or not. OK4 has to score to be impactful. I agree, I would love to have both players, I'm just afraid of the Melo and Stat experiment that failed. Both players were offensive minded, they both took up the same real estate, and they were both defensive liabilities against athletic bigs (I'm talking Melo and Stat). OK4's game will be similar to Zach Randolph, with that old man bully ball in the post. But that's also what Melo does. Melo needs that room to operate in the post, instead of jacking up 3's all game, which will be the case if we keep adding more post up bigs. The good thing is that Phil is not building this team around his draft pick, so he could really pick anybody, regardless of Melo......That's probably the best idea. I can see most of the players mentioned as our first round pick (OK4, Towns, Russell, Winslow, Mudiay)

As Phil said plenty of times, we need players that wants to go to the rim....OK4 check. We need players that wants to play defense....Towns check.

We have so many holes, you can make a case for having both players on your team. But regardless who we add, it's free agency that will make or break this team for the upcoming season. And Phil will do his best to make sure this team has enough talent to make the playoffs. This is what I got from Phil's message. This pick will be great for the future, maybe even after Phil leaves, but his strategy is to build a championship team through free agency. I think his eyes will be on Kevin Durant. Especially if we drop to pick #5, he will try and package that pick for KD.....Or just wait until 2016 when he becomes a free agent. But KD is the Jordan or Kobe type that Phil needs to make his triangle system flourish.

The bold part is dead wrong. We saw teams commit to doubling him every second he touched the ball and the spacing he created out of double teams opened things up for other players. He also beautifully boxes out on every possession which often lead to one of his guards or Winslow getting easy rebounds so I totally disagree on that. He 100% needs more balance in his game but when you watch Duke you can understand why he played a pretty conservative defense. That being said he made some nice defensive plays down the stretch didnt he?
My beef with the guys touting Town's defense is I watch that style of play and what he was able to do and I think those situations will not be there in the NBA. I mean my god he played next to WCS who was the best defender in the league and Trey who's got a 7'5 wingspan and his huge. The style of play he was afforded in that system doesnt translate. He's going to have to make some huge adjustments in his approach. He will learn that the hard way. I would still be happy with Towns (duh) but his learning curve is going to be bigger. Much bigger. My fear with Towns is less that he's bust, and more that he's a guy that matures slowly. Look at Whiteside... he's 25. Thats young. Sometimes it takes time and the more to learn the more time.

I think someone pointed out a while ago that injury hindered Whiteside's growth more than anything.

I am assuming that it was Briggs.

If his guys don't make it, its either the teams fault or injuries ... LOL

Whiteside has an injured head ... thats the problem

We should go ALL IN in 2017 for Hassam Whiteside and the FA's the same year, who I think will be the better player on DEFENSE than OK4 and is a force on OFFENSE as well
With Whiteside's age, he would be able to make much more money in endorsements if we can build a very strong foundation in order to contend and that is what we must do, to make it possible...
While getting as many young pieces in this draft, FA's this summer that will not be overpayed, while accumulating assets in the process and forcing CA to reconsider his no trade clause in the process

I do not believe OK4 and (Town's who has a better chance to play PF) but the game has changed, it is hard to pair a traditional PF with a Center a SF anymore, especially if we are keeping CA
There are stretch 4's as in the PF/C's like LA, Dirk, Ryan Anderson, *PF's that can hit the 3pter and grab 10RB's and play inside out) that can knock down 3's that OK4 will not be able to defend on top of the BIG SF's like Durant/Lebron/Draymond Green/CA/Rudy Gay/Paul George and many more, that he will not be able to contend

As I have said in other posts, put CA in a position to ask for a trade by not building a playoff contender this summer
Do not go for a Greg Monroe, Reggie Jackson, Ernes Kanter, Tobias Harris etc, possibly even taking back a David Lee for draft picks and assets/etc
Now by accumulating as many assets as we can, try to land 2 TOP 10 draft targets, and work on development and building a foundation for our future, even if we land a TOP 2 pick, trade down if a team is wlling to overpay for it in the process, with 2nd rounders as well, possibly getting Grant or some other TOP 15 targets...

I will NOT sacrifice the ability to grab 2-3 STAR's like

Durant *if we do get Durant, there is the chance to also get Lebron as well*
Whiteside
Horford

Pau Gasol/Noah

With some B tier targets like

Battum/Gallo/Wilson Chandler

while getting Ajinicia this summer as a reaslitc target as he is a UFA, who wil get the starting job, though Detroit could be willing to offer the same thing and could be a bidding war

We also have to keep in mind that 2 draft picks salary in the range of 5-6 and later combined is less than a TOP 2 pick, leaving us with more money to spend on FA's

BRIGGS wrote:

RonRon wrote:actually for the same reasons, I believe the opposite

We should go ALL IN in 2017 for Hassam Whiteside and the FA's the same year, who I think will be the better player on DEFENSE than OK4 and is a force on OFFENSE as well
With Whiteside's age, he would be able to make much more money in endorsements if we can build a very strong foundation in order to contend and that is what we must do, to make it possible...
While getting as many young pieces in this draft, FA's this summer that will not be overpayed, while accumulating assets in the process and forcing CA to reconsider his no trade clause in the process

I do not believe OK4 and (Town's who has a better chance to play PF) but the game has changed, it is hard to pair a traditional PF with a Center a SF anymore, especially if we are keeping CA
There are stretch 4's as in the PF/C's like LA, Dirk, Ryan Anderson, *PF's that can hit the 3pter and grab 10RB's and play inside out) that can knock down 3's that OK4 will not be able to defend on top of the BIG SF's like Durant/Lebron/Draymond Green/CA/Rudy Gay/Paul George and many more, that he will not be able to contend

As I have said in other posts, put CA in a position to ask for a trade by not building a playoff contender this summer
Do not go for a Greg Monroe, Reggie Jackson, Ernes Kanter, Tobias Harris etc, possibly even taking back a David Lee for draft picks and assets/etc
Now by accumulating as many assets as we can, try to land 2 TOP 10 draft targets, and work on development and building a foundation for our future, even if we land a TOP 2 pick, trade down if a team is wlling to overpay for it in the process, with 2nd rounders as well, possibly getting Grant or some other TOP 15 targets...

I will NOT sacrifice the ability to grab 2-3 STAR's like

Durant *if we do get Durant, there is the chance to also get Lebron as well*
Whiteside
Horford

Pau Gasol/Noah

With some B tier targets like

Battum/Gallo/Wilson Chandler

while getting Ajinicia this summer as a reaslitc target as he is a UFA, who wil get the starting job, though Detroit could be willing to offer the same thing and could be a bidding war

We also have to keep in mind that 2 draft picks salary in the range of 5-6 and later combined is less than a TOP 2 pick, leaving us with more money to spend on FA's

Ron--Im not holding my breath to think were getting any top tier player in RFA or UFA--you're wishing on a wing and a prayer. Ron let me ask you this--if Whiteside keeps his level of play at a certain level--why wouldnt he want to stay with Miami who can offer more money? Why would he leave sunny Miami for the right to live in the most expensive city in the world for 40-50mm less? So the goal is waste years and hope? Hope that the other 30 teams that have hundreds of millions of dollars dissapear and all of a sudden all of the free agents like ny? We waited those 2 years from 2010 and we got a broken down Amare--how was that plan?

We need younger players--players we can acquire who balance off and make a team. We need to be smart and aggressive--not rely on others. In real life--do you rely on others? In business you take it b y the cahones and rely on yourself

I believe what Ron stated is Phils thinking, if you read between the lines. It's also intriguing to build a team that doesn't include Melo, to try and pure sway him to request a trade. That's an interesting angle of approach that I think should be explored. I can see Fishmike's debate on OK4 as far as bringing more to the table, with his double teams and boxing out, even when he's not scoring. But what I worry about is what was already said. OK4 is a tweener because he doesn't match up well against stretch 4's (which is the normal PF position now) and some will say he's not a center. But I might argue with that. I think OK4 can play center, especially if he's matched up with another defensive big. And when Melo goes down again, which will happen.....OK4 is the perfect substitute. I still think Towns hasn't shown it yet, but he will also be a decent option down low, that will command double teams.....Especially as he gets stronger and smarter. But Towns offense is the icing on the cake, which is his defensive presence. Similar to Deandre Jordan, and the impact he has on defense, I think Towns will make guards think twice about challenging the rim, when they know Towns is lurking. With OK4, I believe players will trying to posterize him, because he rarely challenges above the rim. He's more of a positional defender, which is fine for some systems.

For example Greg Monroe, Jimmy Butler, D12/CA *a bit older*, James Harden/Klay Thompson, Triston Thompson, also Lebron despite his age
The extra year of salary means NOTHING if they have every intention to opt out of it to make more money for their next contracts
It comes down to building a foundation with youth/cap friendly contracts now, and having the ability to sign multiple FA's/talents in 2017

ALL basketball players understand that WINNING leads to more endorsements along with STATS for fans etc, and in NYC it is multiplied as we have seen with worldwide fans EVERYWHERE during Lin's run
If we have the ability to build a strong core with young talent and save that money for 2017, while forcing CA to ask for a trade, we have the ability/cap space to do just that
No Lebron didn't join us in 2010 but that shouldn't stop us from trying
This time the difference is landing Durant first *a reason why Dolan/Phil Jackson were willing to pay Fisher with no hesitation over Kerr*
Phil Jackson has always won with the TOP TIER STARS and with that said, Durant is just that, and prior to signing Fisher, I can say for sure that he was always in our plans
Also NYK's and Dolan have very deep pockets and want NOTHING MORE THAN WINNING, they will be willing to overpay for aging stars, knowing that some older STAR's will be in decline at some point of their contracts
Just because the cap is rising to over 100m a few years later, doesn't mean owners will be willing to spend that money as it cuts in to their profits, but NYK's will be willing to do, especially considering Dolan vs Brooklyn, fighting for the next generation of fans....

I am baising my opinions on what Phil Jackson has been saying all year and to this day, about trading down, building for the future, and unlikely to contend next year
The statements he has said support how he is going to approach this summers FA in addition to the rise of the cap and FA's of 2017, where there are much more better fits for the system

And reconsider Phil and CA's going back and forth last summer for taking less money and the 2 weeks of CA not responding
So what was going on with Phil Jackson and CA during these 2 weeks? CA wanted something that Phil Jackson didn't want to give him but eventually gave in.....

Phil Jackson finally gave in, giving CA everything he wanted and more, possibly including a no trade clause
However, what does that NO TRADE CLAUSE actually mean?
As Phil Jackson understands he still holds the future for CA's future by simply not adding the talent needed to contend this summer

ON TOP OF LOSING the past 2 seasons already,
CA has a lot of pride and doesn't want to be part of another 2 consective losing seasons that cannot contend and will ask for a trade, while he has an expiration date prior to the end of his contract

Houston is already in ALL in MODE RIGHT NOW and Morey wants that 3rd STAR in Houston to join their STARS AND DEFENDERS they already have..
While a team like Houston will allow how to contend and make much more money in NYK due to the trade kicker and NO STATES tax, while we all know CA wants his money and the ability to contend...
It is a win win win for CA, Houston, and NYK's future

holfresh wrote:I like OK4 but Duncan brings it on both ends of the floor..Duncan has lost weight as he has grown older..Does OK4 have the discipline to do what it takes to be successful at the next level. He wasn't in shape in college...But I see the offensive similarities..

With the adnvanced foot work and low post game that Ok4 has at 19, suggests that the discipline st there to some extent. Lots of time, and repetition went into his development....

Knicks1969 wrote:I think Towns is more like Duncan then Okafor. They both play at both ends of the court.

I think Towns is more capable of being a bust than Russell or Ok4. Towns has the jack or all trades master of none aspect to his game. There's a chance he may never truly excell at any one aspect. Ok4, even at his lowest, will be able to score the ball at will in the paint and Russell is a lights out shooter.

Knicks1969 wrote:I think Towns is more like Duncan then Okafor. They both play at both ends of the court.

tim duncan is a top ten alltime player. he is a two-way, complete player and a leader of men.