BRIGGS wrote:

y2zipper wrote:Melo should be the PF for exactly the reason Briggs mentioned. It's a scoring position and that's what Melo does best, and he's got the size and rebounding to do it.

The issue with most of these defensive centers is that they're ultimately role players. Protecting the rim DOES have value in the NBA, and teams need that to win a title, but great rim protecting centers tend to be marginal at other aspects of the game. Roy Hibbert is practically the best rim-protecting center in the NBA still, but he doesn't do much else, so when Indiana doesn't have a lot of good players, they're still bad. Mozgov is a good rim protector that helps Cleveland win, but you can overpay for him when you have 3 real difference-makers. Teams like the Knicks have to spend resources on difference-makers first, then add the rim protector when they're ready to make a run.

The only good rim protector in the league that you can actually run an offense through is DeMarcus Cousins...

Thats why I dont think its bad to play with 2 5-4's like Atlanta does. Unless you have a Gobert type the 5 position is like a dinosaur--you need them but as role players.

Drafting Tim Hardaway JR was a mistake especially when he had JR Smith/Iman Shumpert at the time

Leaving out Gobert who had the HIGHEST upside/ceiling on the board was the GREATEST MISTAKE

Rusell or Mudiay, Shved/Galloway

Winslow/Mario Henzoja or Thanasis/ G/F's

Carroll/CA

Gobert

Gianness had the TOP 3 potential that was drafted in the middle of the board, had we utilized the assets we used to trade for AB, even if we overpaid with our future 1st rounders in the process, we could have stole the next TOP tier 2 way player with great versatility to play OFF and DEFENSE in multiple positions
We used 1 1st rounder and 2 2nd rounders for AB, and we still have 2 future 1st rounders that we could use to move up from 23 to about 10 in order to acquire him, so even if we REACHED to do this, it would be worth it

While both Giannes and Thanasis could be great DEFENSIVE players in the future, shooting is a skill that could be learned, especially if we continue add to the talent of the draft with this years pick to have a foundation moving forward
They have the potential to be LOCK DOWN DEFENDERS and at the Wing's, while Towns/OK4 and/or Ajinicia/Whiteside at a PF/C position to go with that youth and continued development to their high motor/work ethics

For instance

Russell/Mudiay
Thanasis
Giannes

Giannes *could play all 5 positions, realisticlly, and is a hybrid of Magic Johnson/Durant/Lebron/KG with his skill set and size, as a 7 footer and has so many verastile skills/talents/physical abilities
Mario Henzoja/Justice Winslow
Thanasis

could go with a PG, PF, C, or G/F, PF, C

Thanasis
Giannes
Durant/CA

Town's/OK4
Whiteside/AJinicia or Horford/Pau

There simply is so many different options in terms of flexiblity/roster building
we could have went with a YOUNG CORE to build around, while being a very strong team, and having a deep lineup due to having so much young talent on rookie contracts
instead we went for AB

wroten is that typical and1 player who makes fancy moves but has a million turnovers.

i do like covington and his 3pt range. not sure about his defense tho. id take a shot with him thought

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Talent on a good team. I know Portland has been a good regular season team but they don't have nearly enough for the playoffs starting at the 5 and the over rated Lopez. Whoever is stupid and pays him big money deserves what they get

disagree Robin Lopez is a very good player

It will be a wait and see. Right now positivity should be encouraged! The market dictated a huge run up in cost.

nyk4ever wrote:

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Talent on a good team. I know Portland has been a good regular season team but they don't have nearly enough for the playoffs starting at the 5 and the over rated Lopez. Whoever is stupid and pays him big money deserves what they get

disagree Robin Lopez is a very good player

dude your hardon for briggs is silly. briggs lacks a bit of tact at times and there's been plenty of times he's been kinda a dick to me, but overall is a great poster on this forum. you're acting like a school-girl.

ROBIN LOPEZ IS A VERY GOOD PLAYER!

Instead of offering a contingent plan for Robin Lopez depending on Jordan,
Try to force Lopez to take much less, at minimum 10-11m per year with raises, possibly slightly less with raises, on a 4year deal
Right now it is rumored to be a 4year deal that would pay him a total of 12-13m (not sure if that is including raises or not)
If we didn't OFFER A MAX for Greg Monroe but are willing to pay 12-13m for Lopez, Jackson should go isolate himself with players that has no interest in The Triangle
He IS NOT COACHING, and there is 0 faith in Fisher and his staff, and even more importantly we do not have enough TALENT to convince TOP TIERs to come
Which is why we should have offered Monroe a MAX but ask him politely if he took slightly less, at about 14m, if it meant we could sign LA or Deandre Jordan, even possibly Reggie Jackson or Tobias Harris
Asking him what he thinks of Reggie Jackson and his input on other players, making him part of the recruiting process and valuing his input, as well as asking him if he prefers playing PF or Center
If he mind playing Center if LA was his PF so he could showcase his passing ability as BOTH of them could be interchangeable with KP (when he fills out as well)
Though he can even contribute vs backups and even play some SF at times with LA/Monroe for more added DEFENSE/REBOUNDING/SHOT BLOCKING and can still spread the floor on OFFENSE and make great cuts

We need to get much more value than overpaying for him, if it is 12-13m it should only be a 1year deal with a team option on 2nd like Jordan Hill at 9m last season and team option this upcoming season)
Unless it is essentially a 1year deal with team option on 2nd with 0 guaranteed money or a low amount like 500k (perfect trading chip if needed)

In fact, take back the offer if it isnt for just 1 season or team option for 2nd

I would rather gamble with the roster with Koufous between STARTING to about Ed Davis type money, 4-5m to about 7-8m
Koufus on a 3year deal about 21-24m at Ed Davis type money is much better money money IMO, even getting Biyombo on a 2-3year deal at 4-5m

While Koufus and Lopez (we should have contacted for a contract from 7m-9m with raises and is willing to take it) and 4m-5m for Biyombo on a 3year deal

with 150% rule not sure if we can trade for David Lee if we used fill ins

Lopez needs to sign for less than 12m, 11m with raises is more than "fair" assuming it is a 4year deal with raises, which would be about 12-13m a year when all is said and done

Would hope Lopez agrees for less so we can make a trade for David Lee at the very least or be able to offer a MAX LIKE contract for Tobias Harris/Ernes Kanter (just to at least make those teams PAY in order to keep them first) and then trade for David Lee, letting his agent know that our intentions are legit but do not want rumors swirling, tell his agent if he has interest in returning or not to play in the Triangle, as we respect his decision, and we do have interest in resigning him next season, however, it would be much less than what he is making, from 5m-8m on a multiyear deal, though there will be TOP priorities over him first with many FA's that are TOP TIERS....

First sign Biyombo first for 4-5m (as he likely will sign in as he gets a chance to START, tell his agent not to leak numbers out but he could leak that "we are VERY CLOSE to making a deal)
(would need Cole Aldrich's early bird rights with his low cap hold, to get the FULL MLE, which is our loophole)

See who blinks first for Lopez and Koufus on a smaller deals (thats what we should have did) Tell Lopez and Koufous that we need answers by 24 hours, contingent on Jordan

For Aldrich, DEPENDING ON if there is a market for him, and at WHAT PRICE/leverage do we have over him... we could resign him to a deal of about 5m with raises on a 2-3year deal, with partial guarantee for first season, and could be waived instantly, allowing him to get 2-3m instantly and pursuit another team/contract for FREE MONEY, if he is in demand, give like a 4year 12m deal if needed or 10m 3year deal

With possible non guarantees for 2nd or 3rd year or partial guarantee's, essentially he is a trading chip, if we can not just sign and waive him, opting for D league talent and Biyombo as our WORST CASE SCENARIO

REMEMBER (we need his agent and him to keep the numbers to themselves)
Adding Koufus, (he gets the chance to likely START again) to a CAP FRIENDLY DEAL (will not hurt us at that price and is a trading chip if he does indeed play well like he did a couple years ago with Denver/George Karl)

Same with Lopez, (needing him and his agent to keep numbers to himself)
Trying to get Lopez on a much lower deal, offer 7-8m with raises a year

In order to have the FULL AMOUNT we need to stretch (and trade Early, possibly Shved to Clippers or another team or trade Calderon
(though it would be a poor decision, considering we do not know if these players have interest in joining us #1 and #2 teams could match)

If they have interest in Shved and Early (need SF's on their roster with only Paul Pierce)

In addition to BKLYN's, 2nd rounder...
I say try to get 2-3 2nd rounders from Clippers, one that is the Net's and a 2019 or/and 2020 2nd rounder

Clippers own Nets 2nd rounder this next summer

Only incoming pick from Clippers
=================================================

2016 second round draft pick from Brooklyn
L.A. Clippers have the right to swap their 2016 2nd round pick protected for selections 56-60 for Brooklyn's 2016 2nd round pick (if the L.A. Clippers' pick falls within its protected range, then the L.A. Clippers' swap right and Brooklyn's obligation to the L.A. Clippers will be extinguished) [Brooklyn-L.A. Clippers, 7/11/2012

Outgoing picks for Clippers
=====================================

2016 second round draft pick to Cleveland
L.A. Clippers' 2016 2nd round pick to Cleveland (via New Orleans) protected for selections 31-55 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then the L.A. Clippers' obligation to Cleveland will be extinguished) [L.A. Clippers-New Orleans, 8/12/2009; Cleveland-New Orleans, 7/11/2014]

2017 first round draft pick to Toronto
L.A. Clippers' 1st round pick to Toronto (via Milwaukee) protected for selections 1-14 in 2017, 1-14 in 2018 and 1-14 in 2019; if the L.A. Clippers have not conveyed a 1st round pick to Toronto by 2019, then the L.A. Clippers will instead convey their 2020 2nd round pick and 2021 2nd round pick to Toronto [L.A. Clippers-Milwaukee, 8/26/2014; Milwaukee-Toronto, 6/25/2015]

2017 second round draft pick to Boston
L.A. Clippers' 2017 2nd round pick to Boston [Boston-L.A. Clippers-Phoenix, 1/15/2015]

2018 second round draft pick to Philadelphia
Philadelphia will receive the more favorable of the L.A. Clippers' 2018 2nd round pick and New York's 2018 2nd round pick and New York will receive the less favorable of these two picks (via Philadelphia's right to swap L.A. Clippers for New York) [L.A. Clippers-Philadelphia, 2/20/2014; New York-Philadelphia, 10/27/2014]; this pick conveyance is the same as the one described in "2018 second round draft pick from New York" on Philadelphia Credits

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Talent on a good team. I know Portland has been a good regular season team but they don't have nearly enough for the playoffs starting at the 5 and the over rated Lopez. Whoever is stupid and pays him big money deserves what they get

disagree Robin Lopez is a very good player

Agreed.

Bonn1997 wrote:14 efficient points, 9 rbs, 2 blocks per 36 with excellent advanced stats?
He's a starter on a winning team unless that team has a superstar center. If Melo doesn't recover, Lopez will actually be our best player. That's partly praise to Lopez and partly an indictment of our roster, though.

I think on a great team Lopez is probably a back up. Thats not a huge criticism. If we look at really great C's Lopez is not even close to one of them right? Its a fine signing---solid. Im not going above the word solid but whats wrong with solid? 12-13mm today really is signing for 7-8 mm in 2 years. So we have a very decent C to bridge the time until Kristaps or possibly Willy H takes over. No reason to argue here it is what it is.