nixluva wrote:Watching the China videos you can see some interesting things from Mudiay. He's not playing wild or out of control for an 18 yr old. He was very patient in most cases. I think his shot will come. He's not a Rondo in terms of shooting IMO. Moves the ball and plays within the offense.

he plays relatively under control but don't see the "special" factor that makes him a top 5 especially without a really good shot.

Teams will figure out that he can't shoot and start laying off him.

too many times I have see where we think that players will "learn to shoot". Curry and Russell are shooters

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:Watching the China videos you can see some interesting things from Mudiay. He's not playing wild or out of control for an 18 yr old. He was very patient in most cases. I think his shot will come. He's not a Rondo in terms of shooting IMO. Moves the ball and plays within the offense.

he plays relatively under control but don't see the "special" factor that makes him a top 5 especially without a really good shot.

Teams will figure out that he can't shoot and start laying off him.

too many times I have see where we think that players will "learn to shoot". Curry and Russell are shooters

Moonangie wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:Watching the China videos you can see some interesting things from Mudiay. He's not playing wild or out of control for an 18 yr old. He was very patient in most cases. I think his shot will come. He's not a Rondo in terms of shooting IMO. Moves the ball and plays within the offense.

he plays relatively under control but don't see the "special" factor that makes him a top 5 especially without a really good shot.

Teams will figure out that he can't shoot and start laying off him.

too many times I have see where we think that players will "learn to shoot". Curry and Russell are shooters

Curry and Russell are ELITE shooters. That doesn't mean other players "can't" shoot. Mudiay will not be a Curry or Russell, but being a Mudiay is probably more than enough, especially in the triangle. And his shooting will improve, much like John Wall's did over the past few years. I am more concerned about his defensive abilities, since shutting down shooters is absolutely critical to winning in today's NBA.

who in the NBA can shut down shooters? Tony Allen? He was exploited pretty badly.

If Mudiay can turn into John Wall, I will be happy. What if there is a better chance that he turns into Tyreke Evans. Did Evans learn how to shoot?

Look at the teams still alive, you NEED to be able to shoot and shoot well. There are exceptions but not many.

Moonangie wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:Watching the China videos you can see some interesting things from Mudiay. He's not playing wild or out of control for an 18 yr old. He was very patient in most cases. I think his shot will come. He's not a Rondo in terms of shooting IMO. Moves the ball and plays within the offense.

he plays relatively under control but don't see the "special" factor that makes him a top 5 especially without a really good shot.

Teams will figure out that he can't shoot and start laying off him.

too many times I have see where we think that players will "learn to shoot". Curry and Russell are shooters

Curry and Russell are ELITE shooters. That doesn't mean other players "can't" shoot. Mudiay will not be a Curry or Russell, but being a Mudiay is probably more than enough, especially in the triangle. And his shooting will improve, much like John Wall's did over the past few years. I am more concerned about his defensive abilities, since shutting down shooters is absolutely critical to winning in today's NBA.

who in the NBA can shut down shooters? Tony Allen? He was exploited pretty badly.

If Mudiay can turn into John Wall, I will be happy. What if there is a better chance that he turns into Tyreke Evans. Did Evans learn how to shoot?

Look at the teams still alive, you NEED to be able to shoot and shoot well. There are exceptions but not many.

From what I have seen of him, he's not a bad shooter. I trust Larry Brown when he says Mudiay needs to tweak his shooting form, not "fix" it. Mudiay is basically an 18yo. He has four years to get where a college senior is already. I think the boy will become a star in this league. He has amazing instincts, high IQ, great vision and passing acumen, and an uncanny ability to score - in the paint AND shooting, although more of the former. He has Westbrook-like athleticism with Wall-like handle/speed/control. If he plays solid defense, he could be the ROTY.

and if you had a choice of him or russell you take him?

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:Watching the China videos you can see some interesting things from Mudiay. He's not playing wild or out of control for an 18 yr old. He was very patient in most cases. I think his shot will come. He's not a Rondo in terms of shooting IMO. Moves the ball and plays within the offense.

he plays relatively under control but don't see the "special" factor that makes him a top 5 especially without a really good shot.

Teams will figure out that he can't shoot and start laying off him.

too many times I have see where we think that players will "learn to shoot". Curry and Russell are shooters

Curry and Russell are ELITE shooters. That doesn't mean other players "can't" shoot. Mudiay will not be a Curry or Russell, but being a Mudiay is probably more than enough, especially in the triangle. And his shooting will improve, much like John Wall's did over the past few years. I am more concerned about his defensive abilities, since shutting down shooters is absolutely critical to winning in today's NBA.

who in the NBA can shut down shooters? Tony Allen? He was exploited pretty badly.

If Mudiay can turn into John Wall, I will be happy. What if there is a better chance that he turns into Tyreke Evans. Did Evans learn how to shoot?

Look at the teams still alive, you NEED to be able to shoot and shoot well. There are exceptions but not many.

From what I have seen of him, he's not a bad shooter. I trust Larry Brown when he says Mudiay needs to tweak his shooting form, not "fix" it. Mudiay is basically an 18yo. He has four years to get where a college senior is already. I think the boy will become a star in this league. He has amazing instincts, high IQ, great vision and passing acumen, and an uncanny ability to score - in the paint AND shooting, although more of the former. He has Westbrook-like athleticism with Wall-like handle/speed/control. If he plays solid defense, he could be the ROTY.

and if you had a choice of him or russell you take him?

Mudiay is coming in as a better pure PG than Wall was when he came in. I like both Russell and Mudiay, but prefer Russell little more since he is such a good shooter, but at the same time he's not nearly the kind of penetrator and finisher that Mudiay is. Mudiay already has an NBA build and he's a good deal stronger going to the basket. I'm a bit worried about Russell being a bit too frail. Mudiay can finish thru contact better. It's very close tho which is why they are bunched up next to each other in the draft.

curry is frail.

today, you need a combo guard who can shoot. Look at who is left. Wall is one comp and him not being able to shoot is still a problem.

I see Mudiay as a good player who may drop passed 6.

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:Watching the China videos you can see some interesting things from Mudiay. He's not playing wild or out of control for an 18 yr old. He was very patient in most cases. I think his shot will come. He's not a Rondo in terms of shooting IMO. Moves the ball and plays within the offense.

he plays relatively under control but don't see the "special" factor that makes him a top 5 especially without a really good shot.

Teams will figure out that he can't shoot and start laying off him.

too many times I have see where we think that players will "learn to shoot". Curry and Russell are shooters

Curry and Russell are ELITE shooters. That doesn't mean other players "can't" shoot. Mudiay will not be a Curry or Russell, but being a Mudiay is probably more than enough, especially in the triangle. And his shooting will improve, much like John Wall's did over the past few years. I am more concerned about his defensive abilities, since shutting down shooters is absolutely critical to winning in today's NBA.

who in the NBA can shut down shooters? Tony Allen? He was exploited pretty badly.

If Mudiay can turn into John Wall, I will be happy. What if there is a better chance that he turns into Tyreke Evans. Did Evans learn how to shoot?

Look at the teams still alive, you NEED to be able to shoot and shoot well. There are exceptions but not many.

From what I have seen of him, he's not a bad shooter. I trust Larry Brown when he says Mudiay needs to tweak his shooting form, not "fix" it. Mudiay is basically an 18yo. He has four years to get where a college senior is already. I think the boy will become a star in this league. He has amazing instincts, high IQ, great vision and passing acumen, and an uncanny ability to score - in the paint AND shooting, although more of the former. He has Westbrook-like athleticism with Wall-like handle/speed/control. If he plays solid defense, he could be the ROTY.

and if you had a choice of him or russell you take him?

Mudiay is coming in as a better pure PG than Wall was when he came in. I like both Russell and Mudiay, but prefer Russell little more since he is such a good shooter, but at the same time he's not nearly the kind of penetrator and finisher that Mudiay is. Mudiay already has an NBA build and he's a good deal stronger going to the basket. I'm a bit worried about Russell being a bit too frail. Mudiay can finish thru contact better. It's very close tho which is why they are bunched up next to each other in the draft.

curry is frail.

today, you need a combo guard who can shoot. Look at who is left. Wall is one comp and him not being able to shoot is still a problem.

I see Mudiay as a good player who may drop passed 6.

How many combo guards are at the level of Steph or Harden? At least Mudiay has a chance to improve. I think perhaps you're assuming that Mudiay is a horrible shooter when you don't really know what his current development is. No one has seen the kid for months. If he's made improvement, as his trainer has said he has, I think this kid is certainly worth a #4 pick. It would be a mistake to discount this kid simply because he needs to improve his shooting. His shot isn't broken, it just needs work. There's a huge difference between him and some kid that has horrible shooting mechanics and obvious lack of shooting talent overall.

c'mon! his trainer said that he improved?

I don't claim to know enough about mudiay but with his reported shooting issue and the murkiness of him playing in china, I would run.

Remember, phil does not have hinkie's advantage with a zillion picks. He needs to take a surer thing and can't afford to be wrong.

And, hinkie scouted Mudiay more than anyone and he can afford to screw up. If he passes, that is a big red light.

Another thing, Mudiay may be a better fit in the triangle than in a more modern offense.

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:Watching the China videos you can see some interesting things from Mudiay. He's not playing wild or out of control for an 18 yr old. He was very patient in most cases. I think his shot will come. He's not a Rondo in terms of shooting IMO. Moves the ball and plays within the offense.

he plays relatively under control but don't see the "special" factor that makes him a top 5 especially without a really good shot.

Teams will figure out that he can't shoot and start laying off him.

too many times I have see where we think that players will "learn to shoot". Curry and Russell are shooters

Curry and Russell are ELITE shooters. That doesn't mean other players "can't" shoot. Mudiay will not be a Curry or Russell, but being a Mudiay is probably more than enough, especially in the triangle. And his shooting will improve, much like John Wall's did over the past few years. I am more concerned about his defensive abilities, since shutting down shooters is absolutely critical to winning in today's NBA.

who in the NBA can shut down shooters? Tony Allen? He was exploited pretty badly.

If Mudiay can turn into John Wall, I will be happy. What if there is a better chance that he turns into Tyreke Evans. Did Evans learn how to shoot?

Look at the teams still alive, you NEED to be able to shoot and shoot well. There are exceptions but not many.

From what I have seen of him, he's not a bad shooter. I trust Larry Brown when he says Mudiay needs to tweak his shooting form, not "fix" it. Mudiay is basically an 18yo. He has four years to get where a college senior is already. I think the boy will become a star in this league. He has amazing instincts, high IQ, great vision and passing acumen, and an uncanny ability to score - in the paint AND shooting, although more of the former. He has Westbrook-like athleticism with Wall-like handle/speed/control. If he plays solid defense, he could be the ROTY.

and if you had a choice of him or russell you take him?

Mudiay is coming in as a better pure PG than Wall was when he came in. I like both Russell and Mudiay, but prefer Russell little more since he is such a good shooter, but at the same time he's not nearly the kind of penetrator and finisher that Mudiay is. Mudiay already has an NBA build and he's a good deal stronger going to the basket. I'm a bit worried about Russell being a bit too frail. Mudiay can finish thru contact better. It's very close tho which is why they are bunched up next to each other in the draft.

curry is frail.

today, you need a combo guard who can shoot. Look at who is left. Wall is one comp and him not being able to shoot is still a problem.

I see Mudiay as a good player who may drop passed 6.

How many combo guards are at the level of Steph or Harden? At least Mudiay has a chance to improve. I think perhaps you're assuming that Mudiay is a horrible shooter when you don't really know what his current development is. No one has seen the kid for months. If he's made improvement, as his trainer has said he has, I think this kid is certainly worth a #4 pick. It would be a mistake to discount this kid simply because he needs to improve his shooting. His shot isn't broken, it just needs work. There's a huge difference between him and some kid that has horrible shooting mechanics and obvious lack of shooting talent overall.

c'mon! his trainer said that he improved?

I don't claim to know enough about mudiay but with his reported shooting issue and the murkiness of him playing in china, I would run.

Remember, phil does not have hinkie's advantage with a zillion picks. He needs to take a surer thing and can't afford to be wrong.

And, hinkie scouted Mudiay more than anyone and he can afford to screw up. If he passes, that is a big red light.

Another thing, Mudiay may be a better fit in the triangle than in a more modern offense.

What the F do I care if Hinkie Takes Russell. This man has been running thru talent so he's not exactly the 100% lock on talent evaluation either. Mudiay's trainer has a reputation to uphold so that is one reason to believe him when he says that the kid is working hard on improving his skills and showing progress. You have no special information on his progress so what his trainer is saying at least has some validity in comparison with your negative comments based on conjecture. It makes little sense to piss on the kid cuz he's not completely finished product.

Offense: Mudiay is a versatile point guard who excels in the pick-and-roll and the post. "He's a big, strong guy that can take advantage of mismatches," said his trainer, Joe Abunassar, who's been working with him for the past two months in Los Angeles. "What makes him so good is that the stuff he does translates very well to the NBA. I think he probably will be a better NBA player than he would've been in college."

Whereas many young point guards tend to play too fast, Abunassar said Mudiay has a knack for timing and creativity off the dribble with his crossover, pull-up jumpers and hesitation moves to get to the basket. Those traits, along with his speed, enable him to be effective in transition and the half court. "His high basketball IQ has always been really impressive to me," said a scout with the Chinese Basketball Association, where Mudiay played this season. "He has a very good vision that's more mature than his age."

Defense: It's a work in progress, with signs of upside. "We've been working on defending pick-and-rolls and pressing up on guys," Abunassar said. "I think his lateral speed is outstanding, and has ability to change directions."

Improvements: For one, Mudiay's jump shot. "A Spurs scout thought that he had a very good form, but he just needed to work on being more consistent," the CBA scout said. "Everyone says it's lack of practice." Abunassar said that's been a key focus in training, and Mudiay has improved. "He has elite range and mechanics," he said. In addition, Mudiay needs to be a bit more efficient with his mid-range game. "He likes to attack the basket every time, and he can probably stand to pull up more," the CBA scout said. "If he wants to have longevity in his career, he has to choose when to attack wisely."

Intangibles: Mudiay, who can speak French, understands how to adjust to new cultures. He went from being born in the Congo to living in the states for high school and then heading to China to play professionally. Even though he sprained his ankle there and missed most of the season—he's been healed for a few months—he stuck out his contract and put in the rehab and shooting work. "One of my clients is Yi Jianlian, and he played with Emmanuel in China," Abunassar said. "The first thing he said to me about Emmanuel was, 'He's a good kid and a hard worker and a really good player.'"

you are gonna get into your mood and take this south? Ok ... fine.

I am not negative on the kid, I have doubts if he is good enough for a #4 pick. (seriously dude?)

and saying anything that his trainer says as an argument is beyond silly even for you.

Mudiay is not ours yes, there is no point in you getting insulted on his behalf

OUCH!

mreinman wrote:I just read that Mudiay shot 58% from the line

OUCH!

Barron Davis was a 50 % free throw shooter too