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The Case for Emmanuel Mudiay
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fwk00
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5/22/2015  12:17 AM
nixluva wrote:Watching how Harden is able to get to the basket at will makes me think about having Mudiay in the 4th qtr of games. It was the reason I started this thread. Sometimes you need that big guard that can knife through great D and make things happen. If Mudiay can improve his shot he could be the star guard we've needed.

Melo can be in that Jordan/Kobe role. Mudiay has a chance to be that kind of threat. NOT SAYING HE'S MJ OR KOBE!


Look at Hardin and Westbrook. We have fans criticizing an 19 year old kid who is already a man-child for not playing like an offensive juggernaut. Fans need to get a grip. THIS IS A BIG, FEARLESS GUARD who is still growing. I have no problem in projecting this guy as a Lebron, Magic, or Jordan archetype assuming lady luck smiles on his health and he continues to work hard. He has the body, raw talent, and that insatiable desire to win - listen to this kid talk! He's nineteen and sounds exactly like Durant and Westbrook sounded the first time they made the playoffs and people discounted their ability to win.

At four, you take this and he's untouchable - this is franchise talent. Same can be said for Russell. We don't lose either way.

AUTOADVERT
nixluva
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5/22/2015  12:45 AM
fwk00 wrote:
nixluva wrote:Watching how Harden is able to get to the basket at will makes me think about having Mudiay in the 4th qtr of games. It was the reason I started this thread. Sometimes you need that big guard that can knife through great D and make things happen. If Mudiay can improve his shot he could be the star guard we've needed.

Melo can be in that Jordan/Kobe role. Mudiay has a chance to be that kind of threat. NOT SAYING HE'S MJ OR KOBE!


Look at Hardin and Westbrook. We have fans criticizing an 19 year old kid who is already a man-child for not playing like an offensive juggernaut. Fans need to get a grip. THIS IS A BIG, FEARLESS GUARD who is still growing. I have no problem in projecting this guy as a Lebron, Magic, or Jordan archetype assuming lady luck smiles on his health and he continues to work hard. He has the body, raw talent, and that insatiable desire to win - listen to this kid talk! He's nineteen and sounds exactly like Durant and Westbrook sounded the first time they made the playoffs and people discounted their ability to win.

At four, you take this and he's untouchable - this is franchise talent. Same can be said for Russell. We don't lose either way.

Yeah I started off thinking this way and I'm pretty much back thinking this is where we can take a player who can be a difference maker for us at the guard spot. He can make things easier for the rest of the team. We need that kind of driving force to the team. If you can't get the Franchise big then get the Franchise Big Guard.

BRIGGS
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5/22/2015  12:45 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/22/2015  12:48 AM
The problem with Mudiay and the triangle is hes an ISO player who cant shoot very well. He is only a good athlete not a great athlete and somewhat careless with the ball right now. So you have a player who needs the ball doesnt shoot amd tens to be careless with it-- it will take significant developmental time(Think Exum) He will be in developmental mode for probably two years. IF we played a more open style I might think differently but we play system basketball and these are the facts. Hell be a solid basketball QB--maybe great but at a minimum safe. However he is not a triangle PG right now. He may be a D league 10-20 game guy before he comes to MSG.
CrushAlot
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5/22/2015  12:49 AM
http://upsidemotor.com/2014/11/18/nba-draft-2015-dante-exum-utah-jazz-emmanuel-mudiay-cba/
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nixluva
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5/22/2015  12:53 AM
BRIGGS wrote:The problem with Mudiay and the triangle is hes an ISO player who cant shoot very well. He is only a good athlete not a great athlete. So you have a player who needs the ball doesnt shoot it well YET and will take significant developmental time(Think Exum) He will be in developmental mode for probably two years. IF we played a more open style I might think differently but we play system basketball and these are the facts. Hell be a solid basketball QB--maybe great but at a minimum safe. However he is not a triangle PG right now. He may be a D league 10-20 game guy before he comes to MSG.

You keep saying this stuff but really I don't know what you mean. There is no such thing as a Triangle PG in truth. The role Mudiay would play in this offense is EXACTLY the role that Shved played, which is basically a GO role. He's in the scoring mode period!!! You aren't the PG who ends up cutting to the corner. Mudiay would be the guard the swing it to on the weak side of the floor which is wide open for attack cuz the defense is on the Triangle side of the floor. Mudiay would be on the side of the floor where he can attack, catch and shoot, give and go, PnR etc. In this offense you don't run the offense for the whole team. You handle your role on that side of the floor or you pass. The choices are much simpler.

I've tried to explain this over and over but it seems that most aren't picking up what i'm saying. It's not the same as most other offenses. You overload one side of the floor and open up the other side for your 2 man game. Teams will be trying to stop Mudiay and Melo in the Pinch Post.

callmened
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5/22/2015  1:29 AM
nixluva wrote:
I've tried to explain this over and over but it seems that most aren't picking up what i'm saying. It's not the same as most other offenses. You overload one side of the floor and open up the other side for your 2 man game. Teams will be trying to stop Mudiay and Melo in the Pinch Post.

i hear what youre saying...overload the triangle on one side and play PNR with melo on the weakside. i can see that

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
nixluva
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5/22/2015  1:35 AM
callmened wrote:
nixluva wrote:
I've tried to explain this over and over but it seems that most aren't picking up what i'm saying. It's not the same as most other offenses. You overload one side of the floor and open up the other side for your 2 man game. Teams will be trying to stop Mudiay and Melo in the Pinch Post.

i hear what youre saying...overload the triangle on one side and play PNR with melo on the weakside. i can see that

It's basically how the offense is set up. This is why Phil wants a post threat on the Triangle side of the floor. It opens up an entire side of the floor for Melo and your guard to attack the D with more space. People hate on Monroe but they aren't realizing how it all works when you have a low post threat. Monroe would play the poor man's Shaq role. He's big enough to hold his position on the low block and he can pass. We didn't have that kind of low post threat but with a legit one you can do a lot more of the offense. Mudiay would not be asked to run the entire floor cuz that's not how the Triangle works. He'd have just one side of the floor to worry about and that makes his decisions much easier and quicker to make.

nixluva
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5/22/2015  1:38 AM
Also Melo can play at the top of the floor where his 3pt shooting can be used effectively. Meanwhile Mudiay can attack running PnR with one of our bigs and have a kick out to Melo from 3 if the D collapses.
Bonn1997
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5/22/2015  6:08 AM
nixluva wrote:I also found this insightful:

Top 2015 NBA Draft Prospects Per 40 Minutes (2014-15)
Team PTS REB AST FG% 3FG%
Jahlil Okafor Duke 23.1 11.5 1.8 .668 N/A
Karl Towns Kentucky 19.5 12.7 2.2 .563 N/A
D'Angelo Russell Ohio State 22.7 6.7 5.9 .449 .411
Emmanuel Mudiay Guangdong 22.9 7.9 7.5 .478 .342

Just to put that in perspective, Will Bynum went there and averaged close to 25 PTS, 10 Assists per 40 after being a career bench player here. He then came back for a few weeks and didn't even look like he belonged in the NBA.
callmened
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5/22/2015  6:24 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
nixluva wrote:I also found this insightful:

Top 2015 NBA Draft Prospects Per 40 Minutes (2014-15)
Team PTS REB AST FG% 3FG%
Jahlil Okafor Duke 23.1 11.5 1.8 .668 N/A
Karl Towns Kentucky 19.5 12.7 2.2 .563 N/A
D'Angelo Russell Ohio State 22.7 6.7 5.9 .449 .411
Emmanuel Mudiay Guangdong 22.9 7.9 7.5 .478 .342

Just to put that in perspective, Will Bynum went there and averaged close to 25 PTS, 10 Assists per 40 after being a career bench player here. He then came back for a few weeks and didn't even look like he belonged in the NBA.

lol. great point about will bynum. i mean people say the CBA might be better than the NCAA but can we really say that?!!? i sincerely dont know the level of competition over there. but if the immortal will bynum is puting up steve nash numbers then i remain skeptical. lol

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
yellowboy90
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5/22/2015  6:32 AM
callmened wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
nixluva wrote:I also found this insightful:

Top 2015 NBA Draft Prospects Per 40 Minutes (2014-15)
Team PTS REB AST FG% 3FG%
Jahlil Okafor Duke 23.1 11.5 1.8 .668 N/A
Karl Towns Kentucky 19.5 12.7 2.2 .563 N/A
D'Angelo Russell Ohio State 22.7 6.7 5.9 .449 .411
Emmanuel Mudiay Guangdong 22.9 7.9 7.5 .478 .342

Just to put that in perspective, Will Bynum went there and averaged close to 25 PTS, 10 Assists per 40 after being a career bench player here. He then came back for a few weeks and didn't even look like he belonged in the NBA.

lol. great point about will bynum. i mean people say the CBA might be better than the NCAA but can we really say that?!!? i sincerely dont know the level of competition over there. but if the immortal will bynum is puting up steve nash numbers then i remain skeptical. lol

well, i'm pretty sure Bynum could do that in the NCAA. The only thing that would stop him is the 35 sec shot clock and teams holding the ball. lol

My question is how far out is the Chinese 3pt line. If its the same as the Nba then that's a decent sign. The 12 games is still to small though

callmened
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5/22/2015  6:34 AM
regardless, you can SEE the explosive potential in this kid. it would be mad nice to see "EMAN" leading the break with timmy or early on the wing and then he goes coast to coast and the garden erupts in MUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
CrushAlot
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5/22/2015  7:48 AM
I am starting to see some speculation in the media that Hinkie might do the unconventional and draft Mudiay.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
blkexec
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5/22/2015  7:53 AM
Dont forget. ....the triangle still needs somebody that can get to the hole. .....get some free throws. We had a team where nobody could break their man down so they took the best available shot. ...mid range jumper. Plus Mudiay would do his damage on fast breaks. ...the triangle is read and react half court set. Not full court Where Mudiay excels.
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CrushAlot
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5/22/2015  7:58 AM
Did anyone hear Wojo interviewed on the Fan yesterday? Tommy Beer tweeted that Wojo said he was worried about Mudiay. Not sure why or in what context this was said.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
GustavBahler
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5/22/2015  8:04 AM
Using a number 4 pick on a PG who cant consistently hit a jumper concerns me. Sure there are PGs who had the same issue who turned out to be very good players, but its a big gamble with a gutted roster.

The break down talked about Mudiay's lack of shooting off the dribble. I disagree that the shots the clip highlighted were really off the dribble because Mudiay had plenty of time to stop, set, and shoot a brick. The earlier part of the breakdown where he was shooting while up in the air, in motion where closer to what I consider off the dribble. Those higlights showed promise.

Still haven't made up my mind who we should pick, but I do like Mudiay's PNR ability, his ability to see the floor, make a quick pass in motion, and his handle. The negatives in his game makes him a high risk, high reward player. With a gutted roster, don't know if thats what kind of player we should be picking at 4.

Bonn1997
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5/22/2015  8:38 AM
callmened wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
nixluva wrote:I also found this insightful:

Top 2015 NBA Draft Prospects Per 40 Minutes (2014-15)
Team PTS REB AST FG% 3FG%
Jahlil Okafor Duke 23.1 11.5 1.8 .668 N/A
Karl Towns Kentucky 19.5 12.7 2.2 .563 N/A
D'Angelo Russell Ohio State 22.7 6.7 5.9 .449 .411
Emmanuel Mudiay Guangdong 22.9 7.9 7.5 .478 .342

Just to put that in perspective, Will Bynum went there and averaged close to 25 PTS, 10 Assists per 40 after being a career bench player here. He then came back for a few weeks and didn't even look like he belonged in the NBA.

lol. great point about will bynum. i mean people say the CBA might be better than the NCAA but can we really say that?!!? i sincerely dont know the level of competition over there. but if the immortal will bynum is puting up steve nash numbers then i remain skeptical. lol


I'd be excited about adding him if we were trading Melo and doing real rebuilding. If we're looking for someone who can contribute while Melo has some of his prime left, I don't think a guy currently below Will Bynum makes sense. You'd have to trade the pick for an established player IMO.
fishmike
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5/22/2015  9:41 AM
GustavBahler wrote:Using a number 4 pick on a PG who cant consistently hit a jumper concerns me. Sure there are PGs who had the same issue who turned out to be very good players, but its a big gamble with a gutted roster.

The break down talked about Mudiay's lack of shooting off the dribble. I disagree that the shots the clip highlighted were really off the dribble because Mudiay had plenty of time to stop, set, and shoot a brick. The earlier part of the breakdown where he was shooting while up in the air, in motion where closer to what I consider off the dribble. Those higlights showed promise.

Still haven't made up my mind who we should pick, but I do like Mudiay's PNR ability, his ability to see the floor, make a quick pass in motion, and his handle. The negatives in his game makes him a high risk, high reward player. With a gutted roster, don't know if thats what kind of player we should be picking at 4.

how do you feel about Westbrook?
NYKBocker
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5/22/2015  9:49 AM
BRIGGS wrote:The problem with Mudiay and the triangle is hes an ISO player who cant shoot very well. He is only a good athlete not a great athlete and somewhat careless with the ball right now. So you have a player who needs the ball doesnt shoot amd tens to be careless with it-- it will take significant developmental time(Think Exum) He will be in developmental mode for probably two years. IF we played a more open style I might think differently but we play system basketball and these are the facts. Hell be a solid basketball QB--maybe great but at a minimum safe. However he is not a triangle PG right now. He may be a D league 10-20 game guy before he comes to MSG.

I have the same worries about the triangle but as some talking heads has mentioned already before...Phil Jackson teams played the triangle for 3 quarters and some into the 4th. Cause once the game gets tight...they also go iso for Jordan/Kobe or goes to a 2 man game with Jordan/Kobe and a big in a PnR or PnP situation. If Mudiay can do this then he is the definite choice.

GustavBahler
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5/22/2015  9:55 AM
fishmike wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Using a number 4 pick on a PG who cant consistently hit a jumper concerns me. Sure there are PGs who had the same issue who turned out to be very good players, but its a big gamble with a gutted roster.

The break down talked about Mudiay's lack of shooting off the dribble. I disagree that the shots the clip highlighted were really off the dribble because Mudiay had plenty of time to stop, set, and shoot a brick. The earlier part of the breakdown where he was shooting while up in the air, in motion where closer to what I consider off the dribble. Those higlights showed promise.

Still haven't made up my mind who we should pick, but I do like Mudiay's PNR ability, his ability to see the floor, make a quick pass in motion, and his handle. The negatives in his game makes him a high risk, high reward player. With a gutted roster, don't know if thats what kind of player we should be picking at 4.

how do you feel about Westbrook?

Depends on what day you ask me, lol. Until this season I admired his skills, thought he looked for his shot too much. Thought Westbrook showed more of an all around game with Durant out. Mudiay is a couple of gears slower than Westbrook. If he wasn't I might be more inclined to see Phil take a chance on drafting him.

The Case for Emmanuel Mudiay

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