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The Case for Emmanuel Mudiay
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nixluva
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4/2/2015  4:08 PM
I know that the craze for KAT or OK4 has dominated talk in NY, but I thought for minute about the Knicks and what Phil might want for the team in terms of the draft. My thoughts are that maybe he might feel he can get bigs in Free Agency who can provide the kind of production he's always managed to get from solid bigs tho not always elite guys like Shaq. Perhaps he might be thinking where is my wild card offensive dynamo at the guard spot like he's had with MJ and Kobe? The closest thing to that in this draft is probably Mudiay. If you wanted to take a chance on a really elite athletic guard who can destroy defenses, it would be Mudiay.

He can get some capable bigs in Free Agency and not have to wait on KAT or OK4 to mature into what they will inevitably become. Let's be honest there are far more quality Bigs available this summer in Free Agency than SG's with the kind of talent this kid has. There are efficient PG/SG's but none with the size, speed, handles, creativity and athletic ability of Mudiay. His kind of talent to push the ball could keep the Knicks from being stagnant and only running the half court sets most of the time. We have some kids who can get out on the wings and run with him.

With a guard like Mudiay he can pretty much be what he is. A force of nature that drives defenses crazy. This team needs that kind of wild card on offense. We have so few players who have the kind of ball skills and athletic ability to do what Mudiay does. It would totally open up the game if we could harness that kind of ability. It's hard to know if he can still be good and also play within the system but he did show some ability to do that this year in China. I get the feeling that Phil may view him as the X Factor he needs for the Knicks to one day compete for a title.

AUTOADVERT
holfresh
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4/2/2015  4:48 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/2/2015  4:49 PM
He doesn't seem as explosive in the videos I saw of him in China as he does before he went...The pre-draft workouts should say a lot about him..But drafting him will come down to position and need...If Knicks know the can land a big name via FAgency at PF then maybe you trade down and look at him...
TripleThreat
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4/2/2015  4:49 PM
nixluva wrote:The Case for Emmanuel Mudiay


For most teams, even for lottery teams, all you can do most of the time is let the draft come to you.

Last draft, some people preferred Embiid or Parker at the top. If Parker went first, Wiggins would have likely gone second.

Knicks could, in theory, get any of the top 4 picks.

If they get four, they'll likely take the player leftover from the Tier 1 breakdown, either Mudiay or Russell, depending on whom the third selecting team takes.

If they get three, they'll likely get their pick of Mudiay or Russell.

If they get two, they'll likely take the player leftover from either Okafor or Towns.

If they get the first overall, then the choice matters, but odds are they will stay with a big man, choosing either Okafor or Towns.

IMHO, in 50 percent of the given scenarios, unless there is some massive wildcard situation, the Knicks will end up just taking whom the other team before them doesn't take.

It seems like a choice, but a lot of the time, the draft imposes itself, in terms of value, onto the team in question.

Risk assessment wise, pick the US college trained and active player. Oversea stashes hold a lot of complex variables. Given the Knicks only have one first round pick in this three year span, it would behoove them to just play it safe. Keep it simple. Don't invite too many other variables into the mix.

IMHO, if the Knicks get 3 or 4, then either select Russell or hope Russell falls to them. Outside of the first four picks, IMHO, the draft shifts into Tier 2 prospects within the first round.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
BRIGGS
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4/2/2015  5:33 PM
holfresh wrote:He doesn't seem as explosive in the videos I saw of him in China as he does before he went...The pre-draft workouts should say a lot about him..But drafting him will come down to position and need...If Knicks know the can land a big name via FAgency at PF then maybe you trade down and look at him...

I agree with this--this is one thing I noticed. I dont view Mudiay as a Kobe or MJ type athlete. I dont think he has NBA tier 1 athletic ability although that doesnt mean he cant be a star. Hes not as big as Tyreke Evans but could be at some point. I think hes a version of Tyreke--and depending how you tweak that game--that could be a helluva player. But I dont see the Kobe type of athletic ability. He can dunk any which way--but he cant explode or cut cat quick like those guys.

nixluva
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4/2/2015  5:42 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
nixluva wrote:The Case for Emmanuel Mudiay


For most teams, even for lottery teams, all you can do most of the time is let the draft come to you.

Last draft, some people preferred Embiid or Parker at the top. If Parker went first, Wiggins would have likely gone second.

Knicks could, in theory, get any of the top 4 picks.

If they get four, they'll likely take the player leftover from the Tier 1 breakdown, either Mudiay or Russell, depending on whom the third selecting team takes.

If they get three, they'll likely get their pick of Mudiay or Russell.

If they get two, they'll likely take the player leftover from either Okafor or Towns.

If they get the first overall, then the choice matters, but odds are they will stay with a big man, choosing either Okafor or Towns.

IMHO, in 50 percent of the given scenarios, unless there is some massive wildcard situation, the Knicks will end up just taking whom the other team before them doesn't take.

It seems like a choice, but a lot of the time, the draft imposes itself, in terms of value, onto the team in question.

Risk assessment wise, pick the US college trained and active player. Oversea stashes hold a lot of complex variables. Given the Knicks only have one first round pick in this three year span, it would behoove them to just play it safe. Keep it simple. Don't invite too many other variables into the mix.

IMHO, if the Knicks get 3 or 4, then either select Russell or hope Russell falls to them. Outside of the first four picks, IMHO, the draft shifts into Tier 2 prospects within the first round.

Obviously outside of the 1st pick you are always dealing with who is left. My point is that if they have a choice of taking whichever player they wish, would they select Mudiay for the reasons I mentioned. OK4 and KAT are great prospects but at 19 they'll take time to fully develop into dominant forces. There are Free Agent bigs who are capable right now of giving the Knicks much of what OK4 or KAT will eventually be able to produce. There are so many bigs this year in FA, that I think Phil is fairly confident they can get the bigs they need and there's no guessing about when they'd be ready to produce.

In that sense it seems to me that a kid like Mudiay would be a different thing altogether. You'd be getting a guard who can break down a defense even now, which is one of the Knicks weaknesses. He can create his own shot, pass and tho he's not a great shooter, he should be able to be reasonably effective in that regard. The main thing is his ability to push the ball and also break down a defense when things are getting stagnant. This offense needs that in order to fully function. Even just adding Shved and his ability to get to the basket made a difference. Mudiay is obviously on another level athletically.

Vmart
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4/2/2015  5:55 PM
I have said this before Mudiay is the most talented kid coming into this draft. Only ine player I would take before him and that is Ok4. After that it's Mudiay then Towns. Once combines are complete he will have secured the number two overall position.
nixluva
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4/2/2015  5:57 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
holfresh wrote:He doesn't seem as explosive in the videos I saw of him in China as he does before he went...The pre-draft workouts should say a lot about him..But drafting him will come down to position and need...If Knicks know the can land a big name via FAgency at PF then maybe you trade down and look at him...

I agree with this--this is one thing I noticed. I dont view Mudiay as a Kobe or MJ type athlete. I dont think he has NBA tier 1 athletic ability although that doesnt mean he cant be a star. Hes not as big as Tyreke Evans but could be at some point. I think hes a version of Tyreke--and depending how you tweak that game--that could be a helluva player. But I dont see the Kobe type of athletic ability. He can dunk any which way--but he cant explode or cut cat quick like those guys.

I just see a kid in a pro league looking to run the team the way he was instructed. His China highlights are from early in the season and he, like any kid, is feeling his way but he also being smart and conserving energy. He's not needlessly dunking everything. IMO that's a good sign. We know he's athletic which is why I posted different videos, cuz you can see in other videos that he's getting up and is very fast and quick. He was likely smart enough to realize that in a pro league he wasn't going to just come in and show out every time down like it was a Rec League game. He's scouted and listed highly for a reason.

nixluva
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4/2/2015  6:00 PM
Vmart wrote:I have said this before Mudiay is the most talented kid coming into this draft. Only ine player I would take before him and that is Ok4. After that it's Mudiay then Towns. Once combines are complete he will have secured the number two overall position.

Larry Brown was high on the guy for a reason. Most scouts are convinced of his elite status. I just think that if i'm Phil i'm looking for the player with the most upside I can get. Mudiay fits a need for this franchise to have that elite player at guard. Phil has always had that kind of player and we have no way of getting that kind of player in Free Agency. We can get decent bigs in Free Agency, but not a kid like Mudiay.

BRIGGS
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4/2/2015  6:03 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
nixluva wrote:The Case for Emmanuel Mudiay


For most teams, even for lottery teams, all you can do most of the time is let the draft come to you.

Last draft, some people preferred Embiid or Parker at the top. If Parker went first, Wiggins would have likely gone second.

Knicks could, in theory, get any of the top 4 picks.

If they get four, they'll likely take the player leftover from the Tier 1 breakdown, either Mudiay or Russell, depending on whom the third selecting team takes.

If they get three, they'll likely get their pick of Mudiay or Russell.

If they get two, they'll likely take the player leftover from either Okafor or Towns.

If they get the first overall, then the choice matters, but odds are they will stay with a big man, choosing either Okafor or Towns.

IMHO, in 50 percent of the given scenarios, unless there is some massive wildcard situation, the Knicks will end up just taking whom the other team before them doesn't take.

It seems like a choice, but a lot of the time, the draft imposes itself, in terms of value, onto the team in question.

Risk assessment wise, pick the US college trained and active player. Oversea stashes hold a lot of complex variables. Given the Knicks only have one first round pick in this three year span, it would behoove them to just play it safe. Keep it simple. Don't invite too many other variables into the mix.

IMHO, if the Knicks get 3 or 4, then either select Russell or hope Russell falls to them. Outside of the first four picks, IMHO, the draft shifts into Tier 2 prospects within the first round.

I dont agree with this even one scintilla. The way I'd go about it is looking for maximum value per slot. If I came down to the proposition where Karl Towns was maximum weighted value for slot #1--Id take him. If a deal came through where Philly gave me Embiid picks 4 and 6 because they had high value for that pick #1--Id certainly weight my options there. And on down--each slot the NY Knicks need to get maximum value and I dont see anyway that only 4 guys are definitely slotted into those spots. Would I take a foreign player with pick # 3 or 4 if I "knew" he wanted to come hear and could come here within a 12 month time frame or less? Absolutely yes. If I thought Hozenga was the Euro version of Tracy Mcgrady--Id take him. If I had to wait for him on year--Id even be willing to do that. How many chances am I going to get a player of that potential magnitude--probably only this time.

I have followed this all year. The only thing I thought was locked in stone was if you get pick 1 take Okafor. Now I think hes going to be really good--but I no longer value him as locked. In a league where guards rule now--expect the unexpected.

Vmart
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4/2/2015  6:11 PM
nixluva wrote:
Vmart wrote:I have said this before Mudiay is the most talented kid coming into this draft. Only ine player I would take before him and that is Ok4. After that it's Mudiay then Towns. Once combines are complete he will have secured the number two overall position.

Larry Brown was high on the guy for a reason. Most scouts are convinced of his elite status. I just think that if i'm Phil i'm looking for the player with the most upside I can get. Mudiay fits a need for this franchise to have that elite player at guard. Phil has always had that kind of player and we have no way of getting that kind of player in Free Agency. We can get decent bigs in Free Agency, but not a kid like Mudiay.

Calipari wanted him on Kentucy.

nixluva
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4/2/2015  6:19 PM
Vmart wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Vmart wrote:I have said this before Mudiay is the most talented kid coming into this draft. Only ine player I would take before him and that is Ok4. After that it's Mudiay then Towns. Once combines are complete he will have secured the number two overall position.

Larry Brown was high on the guy for a reason. Most scouts are convinced of his elite status. I just think that if i'm Phil i'm looking for the player with the most upside I can get. Mudiay fits a need for this franchise to have that elite player at guard. Phil has always had that kind of player and we have no way of getting that kind of player in Free Agency. We can get decent bigs in Free Agency, but not a kid like Mudiay.

Calipari wanted him on Kentucy.


Yeah I think that we're making too much of how he may or may not look in these videos. By the time we get to the combine and workouts all these players are gonna look better. Mudiay is no doubt with a trainer working on everything he needs to improve on right now. I just think Phil is gonna remember how key it was to have a guard with elite talent on his championship teams. How could he not look at it that way given his history. This is his one chance to get a player who could be like that even if it's on a lower level it may still be enough to fulfill the role.
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4/2/2015  6:41 PM
It's time we go for a point guard. We already did Melo, Amare and Tyson.
Melo needs an elite guard who can pass and shoot, we can find a center in free agency
this year or next year.
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4/2/2015  7:15 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2417729-why-emmanuel-mudiay-is-a-legitimate-threat-for-no-1-pick-in-the-2015-nba-draft

Why Emmanuel Mudiay Is a Legitimate Threat for No. 1 Pick in the 2015 NBA Draft
By Daniel O'Brien , Featured Columnist Apr 2, 2015

"Mike Schmitz of Draft Express noted that the youngster "can make every pass out of the pick-and-roll" and that he "has elite feel for his age. [Mudiay] hits the big with pocket passes/lobs, uses hook passes, probes and finds the open man."

This is an example of talent Phil might pass on because his system doesn't value a pick and roll point guard. But he's also a similar play maker to the Kobe's or John Wall types (his wing span makes up for his lack of Kobe/MJ athleticism). But I'm not sure how effective he will be playing off the ball like Russell is right now. Russell from Ohio St. might be more productive in this system because he's a legit SG with great passing skills. Thats exactly what Phil is looking for in a guard.

But again, passing on Mudiay because he doesn't fit the triangle is an example of what I worry about. I hate passing on talent just because they don't fit the system, eventhough they might be the best play maker in the draft.

Q: What is the difference between a Knicks fan and a baby? A: The baby will stop whining after awhile.
blkexec
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4/2/2015  7:31 PM
jamp wrote:It's time we go for a point guard. We already did Melo, Amare and Tyson.
Melo needs an elite guard who can pass and shoot, we can find a center in free agency
this year or next year.

It's all about supply and demand. How many guard playmakers will be available in free agency this year and next? I think there are limited playmakers and plenty of bigs. The only big thats an exception to me is Towns, because he has legit two way potential. A rim protector, lateral quickness to guard pick and rolls, and he's becoming an offensive threat.

It's a key decision Phil has to make. Does he (A) pick a rookie to fill a hole or (B) use free agency to fill the holes, and just pick the BPA with the most NBA potential to be a superstar. My vote is option B......

Q: What is the difference between a Knicks fan and a baby? A: The baby will stop whining after awhile.
nixluva
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4/2/2015  7:34 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/2/2015  7:34 PM
blkexec wrote:http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2417729-why-emmanuel-mudiay-is-a-legitimate-threat-for-no-1-pick-in-the-2015-nba-draft

Why Emmanuel Mudiay Is a Legitimate Threat for No. 1 Pick in the 2015 NBA Draft
By Daniel O'Brien , Featured Columnist Apr 2, 2015

"Mike Schmitz of Draft Express noted that the youngster "can make every pass out of the pick-and-roll" and that he "has elite feel for his age. [Mudiay] hits the big with pocket passes/lobs, uses hook passes, probes and finds the open man."

This is an example of talent Phil might pass on because his system doesn't value a pick and roll point guard. But he's also a similar play maker to the Kobe's or John Wall types (his wing span makes up for his lack of Kobe/MJ athleticism). But I'm not sure how effective he will be playing off the ball like Russell is right now. Russell from Ohio St. might be more productive in this system because he's a legit SG with great passing skills. Thats exactly what Phil is looking for in a guard.

But again, passing on Mudiay because he doesn't fit the triangle is an example of what I worry about. I hate passing on talent just because they don't fit the system, eventhough they might be the best play maker in the draft.


I think perhaps you may be looking at it the wrong way. There isn't any specific limitation on guards in the triangle since technically they don't really have a PG in the traditional sense. ANY GUARD that has skills and BB IQ can thrive in the Triangle. All the same stuff is present in the Triangle that you see in other offense. PnR, Give and Go, etc. The only difference is that the PG doesn't have to hold the ball all the time in this offense. THE BALL HAS TO MOVE. So if you are a guard and the fast break early offesnse isn't there, THEN you are expected to move the ball and then let it flow, it will come back to you in the flow of the offense. At that point you can run PnR or anything else. So really a kid like Mudiay would be fine in this offense as long as he learns how the offense flows and trust that he'll get the ball back. Shved demonstrated how that works perfectly.
Stevo718
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4/2/2015  8:29 PM
I've been very high on Mudiay since he got on the radar... He's a great passer and smart and adjusts his game always learning... I saw that in his first cba game how he was having trouble then finished the game strong. Very athletic and drives at will... Does things really well for his age let alone any age.
nixluva
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4/2/2015  9:14 PM
Stevo718 wrote:I've been very high on Mudiay since he got on the radar... He's a great passer and smart and adjusts his game always learning... I saw that in his first cba game how he was having trouble then finished the game strong. Very athletic and drives at will... Does things really well for his age let alone any age.

Just watching him he looks like he's playing smart basketball for the most part. I'm sure he's got a ton of developing to do, but he seems like he's at a good place already. I think the combination of good overall PG skills along with his physical size and talent makes him a very hard kid to pass up. In this league he could be a star and goodness knows we need a guard who can make things happen.

holfresh
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4/2/2015  9:32 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/2/2015  9:32 PM
nixluva wrote:
Stevo718 wrote:I've been very high on Mudiay since he got on the radar... He's a great passer and smart and adjusts his game always learning... I saw that in his first cba game how he was having trouble then finished the game strong. Very athletic and drives at will... Does things really well for his age let alone any age.


Just watching him he looks like he's playing smart basketball for the most part.
I'm sure he's got a ton of developing to do, but he seems like he's at a good place already. I think the combination of good overall PG skills along with his physical size and talent makes him a very hard kid to pass up. In this league he could be a star and goodness knows we need a guard who can make things happen.

How do you know??..after all you are looking at highlights..

Knicks1969
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4/2/2015  10:07 PM
If I have the 11th pick and this kid is on the board, I might consider picking him, but I would not draft this kid with a top 5 pick. Athleticism alone does not get you far; this dude might just be the Jayson Richardson of the draft.
Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
holfresh
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4/2/2015  10:15 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/2/2015  10:18 PM
It's not like he is lights out in China either..His numbers there are pretty pedestrian for an NBA caliber talent..


And 57% ft shooting??..what's up with that?
The Case for Emmanuel Mudiay

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