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Enes Kanter is becoming my number 1 free agent
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BRIGGS
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3/16/2015  10:04 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/16/2015  10:14 PM
That was a STEAL of a trade. Absolute steal of steals for a restricted #1 pick in the future??? Maybe Kanter doesnt quite have the lateral quickness for our team? Maybe his 23-12 potential is just not enough? We need a stiff like Omer Asik!

What a bruising team they have Kanter Adams Mcgary--the guys i the best GM in basketball. We shouldve spent 12 mm on him but he would not do what Dolan says--he would try to make us win!.

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Knicks1969
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3/16/2015  10:21 PM
BRIGGS wrote:That was a STEAL of a trade. Absolute steal of steals for a restricted #1 pick in the future??? Maybe Kanter doesnt quite have the lateral quickness for our team? Maybe his 23-12 potential is just not enough? We need a stiff like Omer Asik!

What a bruising team they have Kanter Adams Mcgary--the guys i the best GM in basketball. We shouldve spent 12 mm on him but he would not do what Dolan says--he would try to make us win!.

Agree......hey BRIGGS! Who is your true number one pick in this draft?

Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
BRIGGS
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3/16/2015  10:28 PM
Kanter restricted #1 probably #30 by the time they get it
Mcgary pick 21
Adams pick 12.
TPercy
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3/16/2015  10:28 PM
This guy is not good defensively
The Future is Bright!
TripleThreat
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3/16/2015  10:30 PM
BRIGGS wrote:That was a STEAL of a trade. Absolute steal of steals for a restricted #1 pick in the future??? Maybe Kanter doesnt quite have the lateral quickness for our team? Maybe his 23-12 potential is just not enough? We need a stiff like Omer Asik!

What a bruising team they have Kanter Adams Mcgary--the guys i the best GM in basketball. We shouldve spent 12 mm on him but he would not do what Dolan says--he would try to make us win!.


Why not wait until the playoffs are over? See if he gets hurt or not. See if his playoff performance rates him a large raise in the eyes of the market or not. See if the Thunder sit him in critical moments over his defense.

What happened to your revelation that the Knicks shouldn't go spending hog wild on any one player? ( Kanter is going to want the max he can possibly get)

The problem with your methodology ( and it's yours to have, your right to it) is that the constant seeking the latest guy to have a big game mentality is that it negates a buy low situation. If Kanter has a horrible playoffs and a horrible rest of the season ( its not over yet), his price goes down. If you believe in a player, but he doesn't perform after being a deadline trade pickup, there's an opportunity to jump in and buy low.

Your methodology simply functions as buy high/sell low ( i.e. lets give Rodney Stuckey more money than anyone else or offer him a contract out of whack to market because he had a good stretch that will likely be unsustainable for the rest of his career and against his career trends) For a team so short on talent like the Knicks, they desperately need the reverse, buy low, sell high.

There's nothing wrong with wanting the new shiny thing, when it shines brighter now than something that was shining bright yesterday, but just be aware of the long term cost of that as a pursuit model.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
BRIGGS
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3/16/2015  10:32 PM
TPercy wrote:This guy is not good defensively

Yeah Im sure his opponent is going 30-15 on him! Funny last time I looked all of the good teams score a lot of points and the shtty one's don't.

BRIGGS
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3/16/2015  10:40 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:That was a STEAL of a trade. Absolute steal of steals for a restricted #1 pick in the future??? Maybe Kanter doesnt quite have the lateral quickness for our team? Maybe his 23-12 potential is just not enough? We need a stiff like Omer Asik!

What a bruising team they have Kanter Adams Mcgary--the guys i the best GM in basketball. We shouldve spent 12 mm on him but he would not do what Dolan says--he would try to make us win!.


Why not wait until the playoffs are over? See if he gets hurt or not. See if his playoff performance rates him a large raise in the eyes of the market or not. See if the Thunder sit him in critical moments over his defense.

What happened to your revelation that the Knicks shouldn't go spending hog wild on any one player? ( Kanter is going to want the max he can possibly get)

The problem with your methodology ( and it's yours to have, your right to it) is that the constant seeking the latest guy to have a big game mentality is that it negates a buy low situation. If Kanter has a horrible playoffs and a horrible rest of the season ( its not over yet), his price goes down. If you believe in a player, but he doesn't perform after being a deadline trade pickup, there's an opportunity to jump in and buy low.

Your methodology simply functions as buy high/sell low ( i.e. lets give Rodney Stuckey more money than anyone else or offer him a contract out of whack to market because he had a good stretch that will likely be unsustainable for the rest of his career and against his career trends) For a team so short on talent like the Knicks, they desperately need the reverse, buy low, sell high.

There's nothing wrong with wanting the new shiny thing, when it shines brighter now than something that was shining bright yesterday, but just be aware of the long term cost of that as a pursuit model.

No it really is not. All your doing is taking a player putting him in an environment he can thrive in and hes doing it. This is not luck--its simply a change of scenery that is bringing out the best in a player. How can anyone not notice his production? We dont need his talent? In a freak way Utah got jobbed by its own hand--first off they could afford to trade him to pave the way to play Gobert as they started two PF. 2 starting PFs=lower production from each--poor balance. Now hes playing in a faster tempo in his position--so you have a new player to evaluate. His evaluation so far is a maximum level player with high end production.

yellowboy90
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3/16/2015  10:54 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:That was a STEAL of a trade. Absolute steal of steals for a restricted #1 pick in the future??? Maybe Kanter doesnt quite have the lateral quickness for our team? Maybe his 23-12 potential is just not enough? We need a stiff like Omer Asik!

What a bruising team they have Kanter Adams Mcgary--the guys i the best GM in basketball. We shouldve spent 12 mm on him but he would not do what Dolan says--he would try to make us win!.


Why not wait until the playoffs are over? See if he gets hurt or not. See if his playoff performance rates him a large raise in the eyes of the market or not. See if the Thunder sit him in critical moments over his defense.

What happened to your revelation that the Knicks shouldn't go spending hog wild on any one player? ( Kanter is going to want the max he can possibly get)

The problem with your methodology ( and it's yours to have, your right to it) is that the constant seeking the latest guy to have a big game mentality is that it negates a buy low situation. If Kanter has a horrible playoffs and a horrible rest of the season ( its not over yet), his price goes down. If you believe in a player, but he doesn't perform after being a deadline trade pickup, there's an opportunity to jump in and buy low.

Your methodology simply functions as buy high/sell low ( i.e. lets give Rodney Stuckey more money than anyone else or offer him a contract out of whack to market because he had a good stretch that will likely be unsustainable for the rest of his career and against his career trends) For a team so short on talent like the Knicks, they desperately need the reverse, buy low, sell high.

There's nothing wrong with wanting the new shiny thing, when it shines brighter now than something that was shining bright yesterday, but just be aware of the long term cost of that as a pursuit model.

It doesn't really matter if he waits or not because he doesn't control anything so why not continually go out on limbs or make bold statements?

Anyway, TT, if Kanter keeps up his play who do you think will go after him? I am skeptical that OKC can keep him at anything over $10m but I am not sure who would spend money on him because they will need a defensive big behind him while he improves his D.

TPercy
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3/16/2015  11:02 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
TPercy wrote:This guy is not good defensively

Yeah Im sure his opponent is going 30-15 on him! Funny last time I looked all of the good teams score a lot of points and the shtty one's don't.


Not a good shot blocker.
Not a good passer.
And the people who he does score do drop points like that on him, Pau Gasol went 27 and 12 when he went 6 and 6 one game.
What he lacks and especiially here will become a lot more noticable and we can't afford that.
The Future is Bright!
BRIGGS
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3/16/2015  11:52 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:That was a STEAL of a trade. Absolute steal of steals for a restricted #1 pick in the future??? Maybe Kanter doesnt quite have the lateral quickness for our team? Maybe his 23-12 potential is just not enough? We need a stiff like Omer Asik!

What a bruising team they have Kanter Adams Mcgary--the guys i the best GM in basketball. We shouldve spent 12 mm on him but he would not do what Dolan says--he would try to make us win!.


Why not wait until the playoffs are over? See if he gets hurt or not. See if his playoff performance rates him a large raise in the eyes of the market or not. See if the Thunder sit him in critical moments over his defense.

What happened to your revelation that the Knicks shouldn't go spending hog wild on any one player? ( Kanter is going to want the max he can possibly get)

The problem with your methodology ( and it's yours to have, your right to it) is that the constant seeking the latest guy to have a big game mentality is that it negates a buy low situation. If Kanter has a horrible playoffs and a horrible rest of the season ( its not over yet), his price goes down. If you believe in a player, but he doesn't perform after being a deadline trade pickup, there's an opportunity to jump in and buy low.

Your methodology simply functions as buy high/sell low ( i.e. lets give Rodney Stuckey more money than anyone else or offer him a contract out of whack to market because he had a good stretch that will likely be unsustainable for the rest of his career and against his career trends) For a team so short on talent like the Knicks, they desperately need the reverse, buy low, sell high.

There's nothing wrong with wanting the new shiny thing, when it shines brighter now than something that was shining bright yesterday, but just be aware of the long term cost of that as a pursuit model.

It doesn't really matter if he waits or not because he doesn't control anything so why not continually go out on limbs or make bold statements?

Anyway, TT, if Kanter keeps up his play who do you think will go after him? I am skeptical that OKC can keep him at anything over $10m but I am not sure who would spend money on him because they will need a defensive big behind him while he improves his D.

Its not really a bold statement to say you really like a guy who's putting up 20-12--it seems more logical especially since we dont have one big man signed. ANY big man in the nBA capable of 20-12 is a max player good D bad D mediocre D still a max player and very valuable. I like Kwahni Leonard but we have 0/100 chance to get him. We have more chances at guys like Stuckey Carroll etc... not many maximum types that we have a chance at that are worth it. Also this year s max is next years 9-12mm contract.If you sign a player to a deal you're getting 20-33% off the contract. And even if we get Towns or Okafor--we still need multiple big men---actually we need everything. But we need a pivot post first. A pivot post is the core piece. Two is better--Spurs model from the post we can build out everything. No one can say lets channell up a player who will give us 21-14-4 blocks--because if we dont draft it--it wont be here--we know this. So is a guy like Kanter who is absolutely capable of 20-12 50% worthy place to start IF OKC wont pay--lets face it there wont be that many material choices that will help the team in a big way.

Swishfm3
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3/16/2015  11:58 PM
E.Kanter atrocious defense negates anything he does on offense.

With that said, because he is a free agent, he is one that I will be looking at more closely during the playoffs.

FistOfOakley
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3/17/2015  12:04 AM
this is a clear example of how important defense is for a big man...
Finestrg
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3/17/2015  12:09 AM
Utah wasn't using this guy properly--that's the bottom line. Now that he is finally being utilized the way he should be, we're seeing his worth and value. I've maintained all along that if used properly--i.e. as a FEATURED part of a team's attack, not some afterthought player that gets only 5 shots a game--he's as close to an automatic 20/10 big man as you're gonna see; a better version of Rony Seikaly in his prime perhaps. You see the moves this guy's making in the post?? Sick...Lightning quick, decisive, quality moves with some of the best foot work on a big I've ever seen. He's an offensive dynamo that'll also grab you 10 rebs a game. And he's what, 22? Many good years ahead of him at a 20/10 level. Since when is a 22 year old capable of 20/10 production something we shouldn't be interested in?? He doesn't block shots? Are you kidding me? So what?? You give me this guy next to Melo--even with minimal money, I could go find quite a few rebounding/shot-blocking/defensive players to slot in right next to them to cover any shortcomings...

I'd love to get this guy or a guy like Brandon Knight to be my PG. Problem is they're RFAs who were traded to teams that like them and obviously want them. I can't picture either the Thunder or Suns not matching any offer to keep them. And what's their max--15mm a year? It's not like we're talking Melo money or what Durant or LeBron will get next year. Those guys will get double that amount...Alas, I just can't get too excited about it now. We're not getting these guys or a guy like Khris Middleton (hearing the Bucks are prepared to match any offer for him btw).. Our best chance would've been if they weren't traded and made it to FA where we could've swooped in with an immediate max offer. I'd say it would've been 50/50 whether either of those original teams would've matched, esp. Utah with Kanter. They really had no clue how good a player they had on their hands here. Amazing...

My thought process hasn't changed at all -- depending what we do in the draft (if we drafted Jahlil Okafor, obviously there wouldn't be nearly the same need for a guy like Kanter), I guess Kanter or Knight would still be my 2 top FA choices. I can only hope Phil understands, if he even covets these players, to go after them as quickly as possible, knows not to be surprised when offered get matched and is prepared to move on quickly to the better secondary choices. As soon as that FA bell rings, I want Phil engaged with multiple players at once, ready to step up to the plate with competitive offers. All we can ask.

BRIGGS
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3/17/2015  12:21 AM
Finestrg wrote:Utah wasn't using this guy properly--that's the bottom line. Now that he is finally being utilized the way he should be, we're seeing his worth and value. I've maintained all along that if used properly--i.e. as a FEATURED part of a team's attack, not some afterthought player that gets only 5 shots a game--he's as close to an automatic 20/10 big man as you're gonna see; a better version of Rony Seikaly in his prime perhaps. You see the moves this guy's making in the post?? Sick...Lightning quick, decisive, quality moves with some of the best foot work on a big I've ever seen. He's an offensive dynamo that'll also grab you 10 rebs a game. And he's what, 22? Many good years ahead of him at a 20/10 level. Since when is a 22 year old capable of 20/10 production something we shouldn't be interested in?? He doesn't block shots? Are you kidding me? So what?? You give me this guy next to Melo--even with minimal money, I could go find quite a few rebounding/shot-blocking/defensive players to slot in right next to them to cover any shortcomings...

I'd love to get this guy or a guy like Brandon Knight to be my PG. Problem is they're RFAs who were traded to teams that like them and obviously want them. I can't picture either the Thunder or Suns not matching any offer to keep them. And what's their max--15mm a year? It's not like we're talking Melo money or what Durant or LeBron will get next year. Those guys will get double that amount...Alas, I just can't get too excited about it now. We're not getting these guys or a guy like Khris Middleton (hearing the Bucks are prepared to match any offer for him btw).. Our best chance would've been if they weren't traded and made it to FA where we could've swooped in with an immediate max offer. I'd say it would've been 50/50 whether either of those original teams would've matched, esp. Utah with Kanter. They really had no clue how good a player they had on their hands here. Amazing...

My thought process hasn't changed at all -- depending what we do in the draft (if we drafted Jahlil Okafor, obviously there wouldn't be nearly the same need for a guy like Kanter), I guess Kanter or Knight would still be my 2 top FA choices. I can only hope Phil understands, if he even covets these players, to go after them as quickly as possible, knows not to be surprised when offered get matched and is prepared to move on quickly to the better secondary choices. As soon as that FA bell rings, I want Phil engaged with multiple players at once, ready to step up to the plate with competitive offers. All we can ask.

Free agency is going to be hard. I think some guys here believe there are magical players out there that play like David Robinson and can be had for 7mm per. You are dead on about the need to draft first--it actually would be easier if we had free agency first. I might consider trading down for Stein if we had Kanter. if someone was willing to hive me a couple of additional 1's

FistOfOakley
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3/17/2015  12:32 AM
And I would also add that all 20/12s are not created equal.. Vucevic puts up nice numbers but is horrible on defense... Kanter is vucevic but even worse...

With ibaka out... Its going to be interesting to see how the thunder does...

TripleThreat
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3/17/2015  3:05 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:.. if Kanter keeps up his play who do you think will go after him?


If OKC takes the 8th seed as most would predict, obviously his playoff performance would be a factor, as well as how far they want to go to appease Kevin Durant, in how much Kanter would cost for OKC to resign.

Just in a very general sense, negating the cap space issues for now ( who knows what other moves these teams will make to carve out cap space.) I can see the Kings, the Pacers and the Lakers reaching out for Kanter. It's hard to see what Denver would do, but moving for Kanter would be in line with their baffling situation.

Kanter is not a true Stretch 4, however, never put anything past Randive and the Kings. Their frontline outside of Cousins is a black hole.

The Pacers desperately need scoring and are in a state of limbo ( should they try to reload this current team or just start over..)

The Lakers can't be put out of the conversation. They need talent across the board as well and their frontline isn't exactly robust.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
smackeddog
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3/17/2015  4:08 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/17/2015  4:11 AM
BRIGGS wrote:That was a STEAL of a trade. Absolute steal of steals for a restricted #1 pick in the future??? Maybe Kanter doesnt quite have the lateral quickness for our team? Maybe his 23-12 potential is just not enough? We need a stiff like Omer Asik!

What a bruising team they have Kanter Adams Mcgary--the guys i the best GM in basketball. We shouldve spent 12 mm on him but he would not do what Dolan says--he would try to make us win!.

So as well as trading our 2018 first rounder for another pick in this draft, we should also have traded another first rounder for Kanter?

It's too early to say it's a steal of a trade for OKC- their cap number is already $79mil (they extended Collinson, which for some reason isn't shown on their hoops hype salaries) for next season- can they afford to near max out Kanter? Would they match a high offer for him? Really not sure- they'd be over $85mil. Maybe they would take a one year hit with the cap going up in 2016, but thats a lot of luxury tax for next year.

I don't want him anyways- no defense and no passing

yellowboy90
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3/17/2015  5:26 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:.. if Kanter keeps up his play who do you think will go after him?


If OKC takes the 8th seed as most would predict, obviously his playoff performance would be a factor, as well as how far they want to go to appease Kevin Durant, in how much Kanter would cost for OKC to resign.

Just in a very general sense, negating the cap space issues for now ( who knows what other moves these teams will make to carve out cap space.) I can see the Kings, the Pacers and the Lakers reaching out for Kanter. It's hard to see what Denver would do, but moving for Kanter would be in line with their baffling situation.

Kanter is not a true Stretch 4, however, never put anything past Randive and the Kings. Their frontline outside of Cousins is a black hole.

The Pacers desperately need scoring and are in a state of limbo ( should they try to reload this current team or just start over..)

The Lakers can't be put out of the conversation. They need talent across the board as well and their frontline isn't exactly robust.

I guess he could make sense in Indy as a future piece but unless they move Hibbert or West I doubt he would come off the bench. Even if they move one he really doesn't fit well with the other. West lacks the defense and Hibbert sucks on O and would clog up the lanes for George. I guess they could suffer one year and draft or look in FA for a big to pair with Kanter when Hibbert and West come off the cap.

I could definitely see the Lakers throwing money at Kanter if his play continues. They need anyone young and maybe they draft Stein then figure he can cover for Kanter.

With George Karl in Sacramento I doubt they would go after Kanter. Plus neither one of them can shoot or play defense. That would make an ugly pair but Sacramento builds through FA and he is someone they could throw money at.

Overall, I think Kanter market will be small but just because his market is small that doesn't mean his price will be low. Teams will look at his age and think they can work with him. Looking at his defensive player tracking numbers his opponent shoots +3.1% higher when guarded by Kanter. Enes would have to keep up his insanely good offensive numbers in order to be a positive player going forward in his career.

yellowboy90
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3/17/2015  5:35 AM
smackeddog wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:That was a STEAL of a trade. Absolute steal of steals for a restricted #1 pick in the future??? Maybe Kanter doesnt quite have the lateral quickness for our team? Maybe his 23-12 potential is just not enough? We need a stiff like Omer Asik!

What a bruising team they have Kanter Adams Mcgary--the guys i the best GM in basketball. We shouldve spent 12 mm on him but he would not do what Dolan says--he would try to make us win!.

So as well as trading our 2018 first rounder for another pick in this draft, we should also have traded another first rounder for Kanter?

It's too early to say it's a steal of a trade for OKC- their cap number is already $79mil (they extended Collinson, which for some reason isn't shown on their hoops hype salaries) for next season- can they afford to near max out Kanter? Would they match a high offer for him? Really not sure- they'd be over $85mil. Maybe they would take a one year hit with the cap going up in 2016, but thats a lot of luxury tax for next year.

I don't want him anyways- no defense and no passing

Yeah, even when the cap goes up it would still be a major hit in tax penalty for OKC if the numbers stay the same. Then you throw in that Durant's deal is up next summer and Westbrook and Ibaka's deals are up in 2017. I don't even know what kind of money those players will be able to get under the mega cap.

Also, if OKC are able to keep their pick this year I could see them trading it for a future 1st to save some money. They could always try to stash their 1st round pick though.

BRIGGS
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3/17/2015  6:15 AM
Anyone actually watching him play--if so how can anyone tell me he's not a max player. His ball-handling skills have been shown off the two games I have caught--something I wasn't aware that he even had. Yes this 22 year old 7 foot "beast" can handle the ball from baseline to baseline. Hes been an animal inside rebounds everything and is an obvious 22-24 10-12 50% 5-4. Exactly what free agent that is REMOTELY plausible to acquire--is better than Kanter--Id like someone to name 1 person.

Also take this into account--we have not 1 player signed next year in the post--not 1. Aiming at Kanter would allow us to pursue Towns and Stein in the draft--the latter which could be a trade that nets us valuable additional assets.

Some of these comments are really strange--like the Knicks can dictate who they will get and at what price. I think Dolan at some point will simply look at some of these numbers and say get me a 20-10 post player and stop with the bullsht. IF OKC wanted Kanter--alone that is more of a endorsmenet than any fan or Knick management can provide. Simply OKC Presti>is better than anyone else.

Enes Kanter is becoming my number 1 free agent

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