And yes, over the course of recent history, the top pick has not tended to go to the team with the very worst record. But you're nuts if you think that this shows some kind of trend. And you're nuts if you think that finishing with the second/third/fourth worst record somehow gives us a better shot at the one pick.

Put it this way. If you had 10 tickets in a 100 ticket lottery draw, and 1 other guy had 4 tickets, 1 other had 6 and 80 others had one ticket each, you'd have the best chance. You'd still only have a 1 in ten chance of winning though. So chances are, you wouldn't win. But you'd be insane to trade places with the second or third best shots of winning.

So keep losing. Give yourself the best statistical shot at the one pick that you can, and let the balls fall where they will. But for ****s sake, stop winning meaningless games.

We're still in the lottery and unless this team really goes on a big streak we're likely to stay in the lottery. This is a good situation when the team wins because they actually are doing the right things and showing growth and development.

This is compared to those that spend half their fortune to buy as many lottery tickets they can buy...Just to lose to an old lady who bought 1 ticket right before you and won. We are not in full blown tank mode. But this is an example of how Phil kills 2 birds with 1 stone. He's doing an audition for the end of the bench players. Building the team from the bottom up instead of the traditional top down.

So he's trying to get a top pick but also having a training session in triangle 101. This is Phils style which i like. He hides his tanking while developing his bench. Hopefully he can continue this 2 for 1 strategy with the draft. The announcer at the Kentucky game said Phil is here to potentially draft the entire Kentucky team. That team is loaded.......Also are the Duke guards that good or is it the attention to OK4 that makes them look better?

nixluva wrote:I think the last 2 games weren't meaningless wins. For one thing for each player that we have who shows the should stay that is worth millions in savings on the cap for next year. We need to know what we have with a lot of these players. Guys that will be much cheaper than trying to bring in all new Free Agents and with these players they already know the system and each other, which means you can have some continuity. We have some young guys who we need to see develop and so every time they come out and show some growth it's GREAT for our future. We can't control which pick we end up with but we can do our best to develop the players we have and evaluate who can excel in this system and who can't.

We're still in the lottery and unless this team really goes on a big streak we're likely to stay in the lottery. This is a good situation when the team wins because they actually are doing the right things and showing growth and development.

I get your point about assessing who stays/goes. But this is how we lost out on Steph Curry--by winning a few games that meant nothing other than lowering our draft position.

Argh! Kings, Pacers twice, Nuggets, Jazz, Lakers, (Warrirors), Suns, (Spurs), Twolves, 76ers, Craptors, (Griz, Clips), Celtics, (Bulls), Nets, Wiz, 76ers, Pacers, (Bucks), Magic, Hawks (who may be resting by that point of the season), Pistons.

Dangerous times! We absolutely have to lose the two 76er games, and the TWolves game, and the Laker game, and hopefully lose most of the others.

EnySpree wrote:I just want to continue to build this team. If this group plays hard for each other....let them play **** it. I can deal with not getting okafor, russell, towns and mundiay....none of those guys have really been that mind blowing truthfully. Of course we'd be better off with one of them. I'm just saying....I could take Willie stein as a consultation price with no problem.

gunsnewing wrote:Watch us get pick 11

no Towns
no Ok4
no Russel
no Mudiay
no Portis
no Johnson
no Stein
no Winslow
no Turner
no Porzingis

F.Kaminsky

And some perspective for the babies worried about ruining draft position.

If the Knicks played .500 ball and went 12-12 over their last 24 (they wont) they would have a .292 winning % and based on current standings would drop them to 4th worst.

So please.. they are a pro team of grown men, not a video game. Some wins are good... Knicks are getting a blue chip player in the draft.

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:Im happy for these players and this coach. Its been a long bad season and they need to get some wins here and there.

And some perspective for the babies worried about ruining draft position.

If the Knicks played .500 ball and went 12-12 over their last 24 (they wont) they would have a .292 winning % and based on current standings would drop them to 4th worst.

So please.. they are a pro team of grown men, not a video game. Some wins are good... Knicks are getting a blue chip player in the draft.

Thanks for the Perspective. It seems that for some reason this year more than most we have lost perspective on this forum. Yes we all want a top pick. We also have to develop as many capable players as we can for the future. It seems that many of us are so down on the team that they don't realize we have a LOT of young players we're trying to develop. For this to work we have to develop as many of these younger players as possible and in addition see if some of these older vets can be brought back. For every player that we already have and can keep it saves us millions on next years cap.

Am I also worried that we might lose ground in the draft and not get the kind of player we really need? Yes

You are talking about fool's gold, when we get too excited over winning games at this point. I want to see our younger guys develop, and I'm rooting for guys like Thomas, Amundson, and Schved to show they belong on the team in some capacity, but I also have an eye on the larger picture.

We have the miss on Curry as one example of how a single slot position can change alter the future of a team. As a NY Jets fan, I am still angry over the late surge by the Jets two years ago that allowed us to miss a great receiver like a Beckham, and I was annoyed that we won our last game this year.

Not sure some folks will be thinking the same way if we miss by one pick, or win ourselves out of a top 4 pick, and don't get a player who could transform the future of the franchise.

I might feel differently if our team was entirely made up of 21-23 year old players, and we already had a nucleus of young players who would eventually mature into a competitive team, but that is not the case with the Knicks.

One other thing which all of you guys are giving a blind eye to: The player we signed who is supposed to be the foundational player on the Knicks is now not a part of any "development" that is going to happen during the rest of the season.

Anthony played hard in the games he played in, but he has also played outside of the Triangle system in many ways, and there were many times during the season where big plays were run in the same way that Woodson would have run them.

Do any of you guys really think that Schved would have been the decision maker the other day with Anthony on the floor?

If Anthony was part of this late system development, and I saw him meshing with the other guys in the system Phil and Fisher want the team to play, I would feel better about winning games at this point in the season, but this is not the case.

If Bargs does not want to be here next year, and Phil is certain he does not want him back- I don't want Bargnani playing major minutes the rest of the year, even if he is producing. Same goes for Calderon, to be honest. I know he is under contract, but I don't need to see anything from him at this point unless he is auditioning for a future trade.

These are the guys we have to evaluate, IMO:

Guards- Larkin, Schved, Galloway, Hardaway (also at the 3)

Forwards- Wear, Acey, Early, Thomas

Forwards/Centers- Smith, Amundson, Aldrich

I just think that people have to see the big picture. Some in favor of tanking may not put things in a way that others can feel good about, and there is no way to get the guys on our squad to intentionally lose games, but I, for one, have come to terms with losing with the hope of a top draft pick looming in the horizon.

If we move out of that spot it doesnt matter what else happens in the offseason or what happens in the next few years even... losing out on stephen curry for jordan hill setup a whole mess of events that we see now and have experienced.. getting someone like stanley johnson vs a karl towns is going to equally be as bad...

this draft pick is the most important part of the offseason.. it trumps signing anyone or the status of melos rehab... we were fortunate enough to be this bad at the perfect time.. if we screw it up or some pingpong balls dont go our way it will impact the franchise for the next decade...