[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Captain obvious Whats in front of me rant.......
Author Thread
Splat
Posts: 23774
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2014
Member: #5862

12/19/2014  12:44 AM
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:
F500ONE wrote:
TPercy wrote:Instead of Monroe I'd rather trade for a 1st rounder and try and draft another center and sign an average to decent center

Monroe only has tread because he's the latest name drop

In the media, we moved on from Rondo, Love, Gasol, and


Greg The Great Monroe, this would be such a Tire Fire move

I'm just not at all convinced with Monroe. Not a smart player, dosen't make others around him better, he is not my kind of player I'd want with the max


Wait, now we're pissin on young talent like Monroe? Who the F do you guys think are out there that we can get? The only thing left is draft picks for guys we don't know can even make it in the NBA yet. I just don't understand guys anymore. The kid is 24 and on a dreadful team. I'm pretty sure he can be much more productive if given the chance in a better role. I think Monroe would shine in a system like the Triangle. He'd touch the ball WAY more and have more opportunities to get assists as well.

Still planning on a triangular future?

I've got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell!
AUTOADVERT
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
12/19/2014  1:19 AM
Splat wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:
F500ONE wrote:
TPercy wrote:Instead of Monroe I'd rather trade for a 1st rounder and try and draft another center and sign an average to decent center

Monroe only has tread because he's the latest name drop

In the media, we moved on from Rondo, Love, Gasol, and


Greg The Great Monroe, this would be such a Tire Fire move

I'm just not at all convinced with Monroe. Not a smart player, dosen't make others around him better, he is not my kind of player I'd want with the max


Wait, now we're pissin on young talent like Monroe? Who the F do you guys think are out there that we can get? The only thing left is draft picks for guys we don't know can even make it in the NBA yet. I just don't understand guys anymore. The kid is 24 and on a dreadful team. I'm pretty sure he can be much more productive if given the chance in a better role. I think Monroe would shine in a system like the Triangle. He'd touch the ball WAY more and have more opportunities to get assists as well.

Still planning on a triangular future?


Why wouldn't I? This team is still being run by Phil Jackson. He believes in his system and will be looking for players that can execute within it. It's just BB but it's a team oriented system and it works better when you have players who have good BB skills. It's very important to have quality Bigs who can operate in the low post effectively and also hit the open shot in the mid to high post. I think Monroe would be a good young player to have in the system.
knickscity
Posts: 24533
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/2/2012
Member: #4241
USA
12/19/2014  5:01 AM
nixluva wrote:
Splat wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:
F500ONE wrote:
TPercy wrote:Instead of Monroe I'd rather trade for a 1st rounder and try and draft another center and sign an average to decent center

Monroe only has tread because he's the latest name drop

In the media, we moved on from Rondo, Love, Gasol, and


Greg The Great Monroe, this would be such a Tire Fire move

I'm just not at all convinced with Monroe. Not a smart player, dosen't make others around him better, he is not my kind of player I'd want with the max


Wait, now we're pissin on young talent like Monroe? Who the F do you guys think are out there that we can get? The only thing left is draft picks for guys we don't know can even make it in the NBA yet. I just don't understand guys anymore. The kid is 24 and on a dreadful team. I'm pretty sure he can be much more productive if given the chance in a better role. I think Monroe would shine in a system like the Triangle. He'd touch the ball WAY more and have more opportunities to get assists as well.

Still planning on a triangular future?


Why wouldn't I? This team is still being run by Phil Jackson. He believes in his system and will be looking for players that can execute within it. It's just BB but it's a team oriented system and it works better when you have players who have good BB skills. It's very important to have quality Bigs who can operate in the low post effectively and also hit the open shot in the mid to high post. I think Monroe would be a good young player to have in the system.

I've never seen the triangle successful without it being spearheaded by sure fire hof'ers. Monroe doesnt play a lick of defense, he would fail miserably on this team. The last thing the Knicks need is another top paid player who doesnt defend.
masud
Posts: 20129
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/23/2009
Member: #2442

12/19/2014  5:17 AM
Monroe is one of the worst defensive bigs in the league. Pairing him with Melo in the front court would be a train wreak.
Nalod
Posts: 68482
Alba Posts: 154
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
12/19/2014  7:27 AM
The question is Monroe fully developed at age 25?
Is he going light on a bad team that won't pay him?

I know most of you want a ready made guy for max or near max money but the true value of a free agent is to get a guy that will be more in a new system and coach and respond to new chemistry! We can all drool at Marc Gasol. WE all laughed at how Memphis got screwed when they traded his brother but that trade got them the space to sign Z-Bo and the two together has been fantastic!!!!!

Could anyone see Marc becoming this good?

All trades and signings come with risks. If the kid was a bonafide blue chipper he'd have been given a huge extension by now. Detroits change in management gave them pause to evaluate. The kid is willing to take the risk and test his value.

The system needs a fines 5 with an offensive game but need be surrounded by shooters. For now, Melo, THjr and Jose would help open things up. Wear looks like a keeper in a role capacity.

Monroe is not a ready made star, but this is how you get guys. He gets an opt out after two years so he can get his max money. If he disappoints, he does not. Most will worry about Knicks history of reupping guys before he even plays a game.

Having a guy like this and drafting a big Yoot gives the team some room to develop a young guy without too much pressure and risk injury. 19 year olds as we know blow out knees if over worked. Some call that "not playing the rookies", others call it smart.

newyorknewyork
Posts: 29852
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
12/19/2014  8:49 AM
Nalod wrote:The question is Monroe fully developed at age 25?
Is he going light on a bad team that won't pay him?

I know most of you want a ready made guy for max or near max money but the true value of a free agent is to get a guy that will be more in a new system and coach and respond to new chemistry! We can all drool at Marc Gasol. WE all laughed at how Memphis got screwed when they traded his brother but that trade got them the space to sign Z-Bo and the two together has been fantastic!!!!!

Could anyone see Marc becoming this good?

All trades and signings come with risks. If the kid was a bonafide blue chipper he'd have been given a huge extension by now. Detroits change in management gave them pause to evaluate. The kid is willing to take the risk and test his value.

The system needs a fines 5 with an offensive game but need be surrounded by shooters. For now, Melo, THjr and Jose would help open things up. Wear looks like a keeper in a role capacity.

Monroe is not a ready made star, but this is how you get guys. He gets an opt out after two years so he can get his max money. If he disappoints, he does not. Most will worry about Knicks history of reupping guys before he even plays a game.

Having a guy like this and drafting a big Yoot gives the team some room to develop a young guy without too much pressure and risk injury. 19 year olds as we know blow out knees if over worked. Some call that "not playing the rookies", others call it smart.

It all depends on the price. He comes on a value deal then he is worth the chance. At near max then the risk becomes higher. If we could convince him on a 3 yr deal with the 3rd being a player option at like 11 mil per so that if he takes it to the next level he can get a max deal next. While selling him on how the triangle will get him to that level.

Also have to remember the draft is before free agency and could shape what players we target.

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
12/19/2014  9:50 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
nixluva wrote:Wait, now we're pissin on young talent like Monroe? Who the F do you guys think are out there that we can get?


Monroe is a double edged sword. He is a young pivot with a very nice back to the basket game. Which is surprisingly well developed for this stage in his career. He has a very nice touch around the basket.

He does provide a problem with floor spacing ( he can't hit long range shots) and he cannot defend the rim.

Given Melo will eventually HAVE to shift to PF as age sets on, the big combo of Monroe and Melo is a bit one sided. It will help the Knicks get more wins and score more points, but they will be trapped as a team having to essentially gun down their opponents along with Calderon. They'll never contend with Monroe in the middle unless they can get essentially a player like Taj Gibson to pair with him.

I think one has to consider the factor of opportunity cost. Monroe will cost the absolute max he can get. Given how short the Knicks are on NBA talent in general, one could argue that picking up additional Tier 2 or Tier 3 type free agents is a better expenditure of cap space.

Monroe's game IMHO, won't age well. However from a fan perspective, part of the NBA game is, at minimum, giving fans their moneys worth in terms of admission. Monroe helps in that regard. At some point, a team has to stay it can't contend but at least it can put on a good show each night and give due respect to the fanbase with strong regular season competition.

If you want the Knicks to contend, Monroe is the "better choice" than what the Knicks have right now, but he's not likely the "right choice"

So if Monroe is not a good direction then perhaps we should look in a different direction. Perhaps target more potent Combo Guards like Reggie Jackson, Brandon Knight or Goran Dragic. Also look at a Center like Robin Lopez. It's gonna take work to try and figure out the best bang for buck FA's that would work fitting around Melo at PF if that's what we're looking to do.

Nalod
Posts: 68482
Alba Posts: 154
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
12/19/2014  11:04 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:
Nalod wrote:The question is Monroe fully developed at age 25?
Is he going light on a bad team that won't pay him?

I know most of you want a ready made guy for max or near max money but the true value of a free agent is to get a guy that will be more in a new system and coach and respond to new chemistry! We can all drool at Marc Gasol. WE all laughed at how Memphis got screwed when they traded his brother but that trade got them the space to sign Z-Bo and the two together has been fantastic!!!!!

Could anyone see Marc becoming this good?

All trades and signings come with risks. If the kid was a bonafide blue chipper he'd have been given a huge extension by now. Detroits change in management gave them pause to evaluate. The kid is willing to take the risk and test his value.

The system needs a fines 5 with an offensive game but need be surrounded by shooters. For now, Melo, THjr and Jose would help open things up. Wear looks like a keeper in a role capacity.

Monroe is not a ready made star, but this is how you get guys. . Most will worry about Knicks history of reupping guys before he even plays a game.He gets an opt out after two years so he can get his max money. If he disappoints, he does not
Having a guy like this and drafting a big Yoot gives the team some room to develop a young guy without too much pressure and risk injury. 19 year olds as we know blow out knees if over worked. Some call that "not playing the rookies", others call it smart.

It all depends on the price. He comes on a value deal then he is worth the chance. At near max then the risk becomes higher. If we could convince him on a 3 yr deal with the 3rd being a player option at like 11 mil per so that if he takes it to the next level he can get a max deal next. While selling him on how the triangle will get him to that level.

Also have to remember the draft is before free agency and could shape what players we target.

Captain obvious appreciates your contribution and the faint hint of quoting.

Of course it depends on the price and what you get in return. YOur almost saying "Wish in hindsight we can pay him depending on what he does so we don't have to take the risk and live with disappointment and assisgn the blame elsewhere cuz you can't blame me"!!!!

In my centrist mode of non commital Im not saying "Hey, lets sign Monroe as I think he will break out!!!!"
Im in scenario mode here. Why? Cuz the obvious is not there!

You want a bonafide value, you pay full retail price. Thats max. Detroit got new owners and new management and took time to pause. Maybe not a bad idea. Monroe can't get extended past Oct 31 so free agency is not in front of him. Its in his best interest to go all our and blow it up, but his agent might have a good idea of his market value and perhaps the kid is not trying to get hurt, not willing to run thru a brick wall for a coach/President who did not give him the money, or the guy is just plain soft.

Im sure in a perfect world want a guy to not do any of this and play his ass off but his team sucks and at the end of the day its Phucking Detroit!!!!! I can think of about 29 other cities I'd rather play in. Philly is next on the shyt list. im sure making 10 mil plus per year makes even Minny warm the heart but even Melo looks good after playing with Jennings and Josh smith!!!! Maybe LA and only having Kobe yell at you for one year is tolerable. Phil can use his Jedi Mind Zen tricks paint a picture. I have no freaking idea what this kid wants, or what Phil has in mind.

Captain obvious knows "it depends on what price!"
Is always about the money.
Value is created when you see it where few others do.

My HOPE is Phil sees what he wants and the value of his system to create a chemistry that provides a forumula where 1+1=3!!!!
My FAITH is tested.
MY Historical perspective leaves me doubtful and suspecious.
But Im a knick fan.

smackeddog
Posts: 38386
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/30/2005
Member: #883
12/19/2014  11:45 AM
I may be presently high on a ****tail of crack and methamphetamine, but I still think a Melo trade with the Bulls in a S&T for Butler and other stuff is a distinct possibility in the offseason.
mreinman
Posts: 37827
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/14/2010
Member: #3189

12/19/2014  11:57 AM
smackeddog wrote:I may be presently high on a ****tail of crack and methamphetamine, but I still think a Melo trade with the Bulls in a S&T for Butler and other stuff is a distinct possibility in the offseason.

why would the bulls give up butler who seems like a better player than carmelo, plus "other stuff"?

so here is what phil is thinking ....
smackeddog
Posts: 38386
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/30/2005
Member: #883
12/19/2014  12:14 PM
mreinman wrote:
smackeddog wrote:I may be presently high on a ****tail of crack and methamphetamine, but I still think a Melo trade with the Bulls in a S&T for Butler and other stuff is a distinct possibility in the offseason.

why would the bulls give up butler who seems like a better player than carmelo, plus "other stuff"?

Money- their owner is known to be extremely tight- I don't think he'll pay Butler the max. Melo might mean more marketing, ratings, jersey sales etc, so I suspect he might rather have Melo for the same price (if they jettison some salary to us with Butler), purely because they might be able to generate more money. I like Jimmy Butler and wanted us to add him before we even saw his improvement this year, but I think he's playing a little above his head- I think he'll take a step back offensively next season, but he's still a player I'd love to have on the team.

F500ONE
Posts: 23899
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/28/2014
Member: #5844

12/19/2014  12:18 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/19/2014  12:19 PM
smackeddog wrote:
mreinman wrote:
smackeddog wrote:I may be presently high on a ****tail of crack and methamphetamine, but I still think a Melo trade with the Bulls in a S&T for Butler and other stuff is a distinct possibility in the offseason.

why would the bulls give up butler who seems like a better player than carmelo, plus "other stuff"?

Money- their owner is known to be extremely tight- I don't think he'll pay Butler the max. Melo might mean more marketing, ratings, jersey sales etc, so I suspect he might rather have Melo for the same price (if they jettison some salary to us with Butler), purely because they might be able to generate more money. I like Jimmy Butler and wanted us to add him before we even saw his improvement this year, but I think he's playing a little above his head- I think he'll take a step back offensively next season, but he's still a player I'd love to have on the team.

I would do whatever it took to get him but not gonna happen


“People say I’m chasing money when that’s not it — yeah, get your mic closer — that’s not it, because I’m going to be in Chicago,’’ Butler said Saturday. “I’m not worried about it. I say that with a smile on my face because I know that for a fact. We’ll resume [negotiations] in July.’’

The new TV deal has players and agents feeling as if the payroll is about to jump quickly. So rather than settle, Butler’s camp decided to weigh the odds and play the market.

“Yeah, [the deadline is] over with, but this is still home, these are still my guys,’’ Butler said. “This is the team I want to be on, this is the city I want to represent. So I’m happy, and I’ll be happy for a long time.’’

smackeddog
Posts: 38386
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/30/2005
Member: #883
12/19/2014  12:22 PM
F500ONE wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
mreinman wrote:
smackeddog wrote:I may be presently high on a ****tail of crack and methamphetamine, but I still think a Melo trade with the Bulls in a S&T for Butler and other stuff is a distinct possibility in the offseason.

why would the bulls give up butler who seems like a better player than carmelo, plus "other stuff"?

Money- their owner is known to be extremely tight- I don't think he'll pay Butler the max. Melo might mean more marketing, ratings, jersey sales etc, so I suspect he might rather have Melo for the same price (if they jettison some salary to us with Butler), purely because they might be able to generate more money. I like Jimmy Butler and wanted us to add him before we even saw his improvement this year, but I think he's playing a little above his head- I think he'll take a step back offensively next season, but he's still a player I'd love to have on the team.

I would do whatever it took to get him but not gonna happen


“People say I’m chasing money when that’s not it — yeah, get your mic closer — that’s not it, because I’m going to be in Chicago,’’ Butler said Saturday. “I’m not worried about it. I say that with a smile on my face because I know that for a fact. We’ll resume [negotiations] in July.’’

The new TV deal has players and agents feeling as if the payroll is about to jump quickly. So rather than settle, Butler’s camp decided to weigh the odds and play the market.

“Yeah, [the deadline is] over with, but this is still home, these are still my guys,’’ Butler said. “This is the team I want to be on, this is the city I want to represent. So I’m happy, and I’ll be happy for a long time.’’

Oh I know he wants to be there, but so did Deng and Gordon- that teams owner is merciless in salary negotiations!

CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
12/19/2014  10:08 PM
Butler with 27.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
smackeddog
Posts: 38386
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/30/2005
Member: #883
12/20/2014  3:31 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/20/2014  3:35 AM
CrushAlot wrote:Butler with 27.

(cries with jealousy)

I think the Bulls will make the bone headed decision to fire Thibs in the offseason.

Captain obvious Whats in front of me rant.......

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy