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Most of you aren't watching games and don't know what you are talking about
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jrodmc
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10/31/2014  8:57 AM
nixluva wrote:So when the team steps up and actually executes to the tune of 30 assists does that explain why they are making these players learn the Triangle??? It's not a waste of time. Even in preseason you could see the team was getting better at moving the ball and scoring on assisted plays.

Yes, and but then you can continue to read how "real" Knick fans explain how Phil and his 11 rings are 100% pure Triangle bs. Because we saw MJ win all those rings without him. And we saw Kobe doing so well without him. And now we'll get to see how one of Riles golden coaching tree branches works without the best player on the planet. Because as we all know, Riles just accomplished so much himself without great players.

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IronWillGiroud
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10/31/2014  8:04 PM
Haven't watched a Knicks game in over 3 years,

Still know what's up.

The Will, check out the Official Home of Will's GameDay Art: http://tinyurl.com/thewillgameday
newyorknewyork
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10/31/2014  10:54 PM
jrodmc wrote:
nixluva wrote:So when the team steps up and actually executes to the tune of 30 assists does that explain why they are making these players learn the Triangle??? It's not a waste of time. Even in preseason you could see the team was getting better at moving the ball and scoring on assisted plays.

Yes, and but then you can continue to read how "real" Knick fans explain how Phil and his 11 rings are 100% pure Triangle bs. Because we saw MJ win all those rings without him. And we saw Kobe doing so well without him. And now we'll get to see how one of Riles golden coaching tree branches works without the best player on the planet. Because as we all know, Riles just accomplished so much himself without great players.

I would put money down that if Phil ended up being prez of the Brooklyn Nets these same guys would be talking about how Phil is about to build a dynasty over there. How Dolan would never hire a credible guy like Phil.

But because he is with the Knicks he doesn't know what he is doing and the triangle is a shame. Just like every star player that comes here is a loser.

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
CrushAlot
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10/31/2014  11:07 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
nixluva wrote:So when the team steps up and actually executes to the tune of 30 assists does that explain why they are making these players learn the Triangle??? It's not a waste of time. Even in preseason you could see the team was getting better at moving the ball and scoring on assisted plays.

Yes, and but then you can continue to read how "real" Knick fans explain how Phil and his 11 rings are 100% pure Triangle bs. Because we saw MJ win all those rings without him. And we saw Kobe doing so well without him. And now we'll get to see how one of Riles golden coaching tree branches works without the best player on the planet. Because as we all know, Riles just accomplished so much himself without great players.

I would put money down that if Phil ended up being prez of the Brooklyn Nets these same guys would be talking about how Phil is about to build a dynasty over there. How Dolan would never hire a credible guy like Phil.

But because he is with the Knicks he doesn't know what he is doing and the triangle is a shame. Just like every star player that comes here is a loser.


You would win a lot of money.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
H1AND1
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10/31/2014  11:19 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/31/2014  11:23 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
nixluva wrote:So when the team steps up and actually executes to the tune of 30 assists does that explain why they are making these players learn the Triangle??? It's not a waste of time. Even in preseason you could see the team was getting better at moving the ball and scoring on assisted plays.

Yes, and but then you can continue to read how "real" Knick fans explain how Phil and his 11 rings are 100% pure Triangle bs. Because we saw MJ win all those rings without him. And we saw Kobe doing so well without him. And now we'll get to see how one of Riles golden coaching tree branches works without the best player on the planet. Because as we all know, Riles just accomplished so much himself without great players.

I would put money down that if Phil ended up being prez of the Brooklyn Nets these same guys would be talking about how Phil is about to build a dynasty over there. How Dolan would never hire a credible guy like Phil.

But because he is with the Knicks he doesn't know what he is doing and the triangle is a shame. Just like every star player that comes here is a loser.

I fully admit I'm a pessimist and am on record predicting low 30'snwins this season. I've been critical of Carmelo and of course dolan and amare and Bargs (well that's most everyone) so go ahead and call me a hater if I'm not optimistic all the time about the team.

Here's the thing though: I thought Phil was a good hire. Along wth whoever he chose as coach because I do think he's a smart guy, whose pedigree at WINNING basketball is so far in his career beyond reproach. I love that he supposedly told Dolan he needed full autonomy cause this organization DESPERATELY needed someone to come in and do a rip to bottom re-do of personnel and a change in "culture". I have zero problems with him demanding the installation of the triangle because it's a system which emphasizes teamwork and playing "the right way" and needs players with a brain or at least with the desire to put in the work to learn it and to make it work on the court. I like that defense will be stressed according to Phil. And what coach has ever had amazing success w/o great players? They are and always will be THE most important ingredient for a championship team. I could care less about coaching trees Jesus H Christ, Buddha, and Mohammed couldn't win a chip coaching a team without at least one superstar.

But getting back to the discussion on "haters". Call me a hater for not thinking much of this current roster but I certainly won't be mad if I'm wrong and they play well. I also Hope and believe that Phil Jackson will be able to construct a team here in the next few years. He has a pick next season. Almost the entire roster is cleared off the books. The cap is poised to rise dramatically. All these things portend the opportunity to remake this team in his vision. So far, the man had had success at every step of the way in the NBA first as player then as coach. He's also had success molding stars like Shaq and Jordan and Kobe into true winners. I actually believe he may be able to do the same with Carmelo (a guy who still has "another level he can go" according to Phil).

I seem to have written a novel here. Bottom line is just cause Someone is deeply skeptical and pessimistic about THIS CURRENT rosters ability to be a contending team this season does not mean I they are a "hater" out to bash any and all aspects of the Knicks current situation (front office and on the court).

nixluva
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10/31/2014  11:41 PM
It's not just being honest that you don't feel strongly about the roster. It's the vicious and lame jokes. The almost rooting for the team to fail and school girl glee when things go bad that I hate. We can all have different takes on the talent but as was posted before when we point out the HUGE upgrade at Prez/GM and the coaching staff plus a proven system and guys make comments basically dissing Phil, Fish and the coaches as nothing special and the system having almost no importance that's what makes me get on guys for being Naysayers and self hating Knick Fans.

No sense of reason is displayed. They can't even acknowledge when Phil has brought in role players that fit the style of play. No one has suggested this is a title team but why can't they be a playoff team?

H1AND1
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11/1/2014  12:14 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/1/2014  12:14 AM
nixluva wrote: why can't they be a playoff team?

Right. They can be a playoff team. I don't believe they are. Both of these opinions should be respected, no? Believe me id be delighted if they play well enough to make the playoffs.

Panos
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11/1/2014  10:49 AM
djsunyc wrote:i was the lone wolf surround by 7 knick fan idiots last night (raptors streaming on the laptop) - but here are the simple questions:

1. why implement the triangle when 90% of the roster will be gone next year?
2. and if you're so hell bent on implementing it - how about throwing the players a bone and running some regular offense while slowly incorporating the triangle?

vdesai made the best observation of the night - when you look at pat riley and phil jackson - great coaching contemporaries...then look at the coaching tree that sprouted from riley and compare that to the barren wasteland that phil jackson sprouted - it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize the triangle is 100% BS w/o 2 of the top 50 players of all time on the court.


Who is Pat Riley's "coaching tree" besides Jeff Van Gundy, now a broadcaster?

newyorknewyork
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11/1/2014  11:13 AM
H1AND1 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
nixluva wrote:So when the team steps up and actually executes to the tune of 30 assists does that explain why they are making these players learn the Triangle??? It's not a waste of time. Even in preseason you could see the team was getting better at moving the ball and scoring on assisted plays.

Yes, and but then you can continue to read how "real" Knick fans explain how Phil and his 11 rings are 100% pure Triangle bs. Because we saw MJ win all those rings without him. And we saw Kobe doing so well without him. And now we'll get to see how one of Riles golden coaching tree branches works without the best player on the planet. Because as we all know, Riles just accomplished so much himself without great players.

I would put money down that if Phil ended up being prez of the Brooklyn Nets these same guys would be talking about how Phil is about to build a dynasty over there. How Dolan would never hire a credible guy like Phil.

But because he is with the Knicks he doesn't know what he is doing and the triangle is a shame. Just like every star player that comes here is a loser.

I fully admit I'm a pessimist and am on record predicting low 30'snwins this season. I've been critical of Carmelo and of course dolan and amare and Bargs (well that's most everyone) so go ahead and call me a hater if I'm not optimistic all the time about the team.

Here's the thing though: I thought Phil was a good hire. Along wth whoever he chose as coach because I do think he's a smart guy, whose pedigree at WINNING basketball is so far in his career beyond reproach. I love that he supposedly told Dolan he needed full autonomy cause this organization DESPERATELY needed someone to come in and do a rip to bottom re-do of personnel and a change in "culture". I have zero problems with him demanding the installation of the triangle because it's a system which emphasizes teamwork and playing "the right way" and needs players with a brain or at least with the desire to put in the work to learn it and to make it work on the court. I like that defense will be stressed according to Phil. And what coach has ever had amazing success w/o great players? They are and always will be THE most important ingredient for a championship team. I could care less about coaching trees Jesus H Christ, Buddha, and Mohammed couldn't win a chip coaching a team without at least one superstar.

But getting back to the discussion on "haters". Call me a hater for not thinking much of this current roster but I certainly won't be mad if I'm wrong and they play well. I also Hope and believe that Phil Jackson will be able to construct a team here in the next few years. He has a pick next season. Almost the entire roster is cleared off the books. The cap is poised to rise dramatically. All these things portend the opportunity to remake this team in his vision. So far, the man had had success at every step of the way in the NBA first as player then as coach. He's also had success molding stars like Shaq and Jordan and Kobe into true winners. I actually believe he may be able to do the same with Carmelo (a guy who still has "another level he can go" according to Phil).

I seem to have written a novel here. Bottom line is just cause Someone is deeply skeptical and pessimistic about THIS CURRENT rosters ability to be a contending team this season does not mean I they are a "hater" out to bash any and all aspects of the Knicks current situation (front office and on the court).

I am just as deeply skeptical and pessimistic about this current rosters ability to be a contending team as well. But its also not like the Layden or Isiah days where all these guys are locked in for the next 5-7yrs and they only way out is to make another overpaying trade giving up more draft picks and taking on more ugly contracts.

If we succeed then we did so because of Fisher's coaching skills and the ability of Carmelo excelling in the triangle which is what we want for long term regardless. If we lose we still have our draft pick and major caps space coming to us to hopefully give us more help in getting to that level.

Why harp on the flaws of this roster? Just to be right?

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
H1AND1
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11/1/2014  1:24 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
H1AND1 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
nixluva wrote:So when the team steps up and actually executes to the tune of 30 assists does that explain why they are making these players learn the Triangle??? It's not a waste of time. Even in preseason you could see the team was getting better at moving the ball and scoring on assisted plays.

Yes, and but then you can continue to read how "real" Knick fans explain how Phil and his 11 rings are 100% pure Triangle bs. Because we saw MJ win all those rings without him. And we saw Kobe doing so well without him. And now we'll get to see how one of Riles golden coaching tree branches works without the best player on the planet. Because as we all know, Riles just accomplished so much himself without great players.

I would put money down that if Phil ended up being prez of the Brooklyn Nets these same guys would be talking about how Phil is about to build a dynasty over there. How Dolan would never hire a credible guy like Phil.

But because he is with the Knicks he doesn't know what he is doing and the triangle is a shame. Just like every star player that comes here is a loser.

I fully admit I'm a pessimist and am on record predicting low 30'snwins this season. I've been critical of Carmelo and of course dolan and amare and Bargs (well that's most everyone) so go ahead and call me a hater if I'm not optimistic all the time about the team.

Here's the thing though: I thought Phil was a good hire. Along wth whoever he chose as coach because I do think he's a smart guy, whose pedigree at WINNING basketball is so far in his career beyond reproach. I love that he supposedly told Dolan he needed full autonomy cause this organization DESPERATELY needed someone to come in and do a rip to bottom re-do of personnel and a change in "culture". I have zero problems with him demanding the installation of the triangle because it's a system which emphasizes teamwork and playing "the right way" and needs players with a brain or at least with the desire to put in the work to learn it and to make it work on the court. I like that defense will be stressed according to Phil. And what coach has ever had amazing success w/o great players? They are and always will be THE most important ingredient for a championship team. I could care less about coaching trees Jesus H Christ, Buddha, and Mohammed couldn't win a chip coaching a team without at least one superstar.

But getting back to the discussion on "haters". Call me a hater for not thinking much of this current roster but I certainly won't be mad if I'm wrong and they play well. I also Hope and believe that Phil Jackson will be able to construct a team here in the next few years. He has a pick next season. Almost the entire roster is cleared off the books. The cap is poised to rise dramatically. All these things portend the opportunity to remake this team in his vision. So far, the man had had success at every step of the way in the NBA first as player then as coach. He's also had success molding stars like Shaq and Jordan and Kobe into true winners. I actually believe he may be able to do the same with Carmelo (a guy who still has "another level he can go" according to Phil).

I seem to have written a novel here. Bottom line is just cause Someone is deeply skeptical and pessimistic about THIS CURRENT rosters ability to be a contending team this season does not mean I they are a "hater" out to bash any and all aspects of the Knicks current situation (front office and on the court).

I am just as deeply skeptical and pessimistic about this current rosters ability to be a contending team as well. But its also not like the Layden or Isiah days where all these guys are locked in for the next 5-7yrs and they only way out is to make another overpaying trade giving up more draft picks and taking on more ugly contracts.

If we succeed then we did so because of Fisher's coaching skills and the ability of Carmelo excelling in the triangle which is what we want for long term regardless. If we lose we still have our draft pick and major caps space coming to us to hopefully give us more help in getting to that level.

Why harp on the flaws of this roster? Just to be right?

I completely agree with you and don't really harp on its flaws. I was simply speaking hypothetically about being labeled a hater in normal discussions about the team. Obviously when people harp on it and antagonize others it's not cool.

And I agree, this team is not mired with bad contracts and the situation can turn around very quickly if it's done right. So far I trust phils decision making and I like fisher so I'm optimistic in the sense that the team is on the right track.

nixluva
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11/1/2014  1:41 PM
To be honest there is a select few who are consistently negative and IMO not even trying to be balanced. I am not balanced but rather just more positive than most. I don't begrudge anyone who has a balanced view or less optimistic but it's the really nasty posts that get me going. Often because the situation here has changed from year to year its like we keep starting over and this year is no different. In fact this year the team has a lot of change. So IMO that should mean people need to take all of these aspects into consideration.

There have been good signs in spite of the up and down nature of things so far. As time goes on they should stabilize and have less major swings as we've seen. My optimism is based on not only the talent Phil has assembled, which I think fits pretty good, but the level of coaching we have now. Some guys poo poo the idea that the coaching would make a difference but I don't. Those same guys are willing to give credit to great coaching on other teams but not this one. It's that hypocrisy that I object to.

knickscity
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11/1/2014  2:00 PM
Just curious, do you guys honestly believe if the Knicks win that some fans are upset by that? If you answer yes, what makes you any different? It seems both polarizing opinions look to the final score to vent their own issues.

"Where the haters at?" in a regular season win is no different than "I told you so" in a pretty awful loss.

If a poster is truly balanced...neither extreme viewpoint would bother them at all, they'd recognize it as opinion, just like their own and keep it moving.

nixluva
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11/1/2014  2:39 PM
knickscity wrote:Just curious, do you guys honestly believe if the Knicks win that some fans are upset by that? If you answer yes, what makes you any different? It seems both polarizing opinions look to the final score to vent their own issues.

"Where the haters at?" in a regular season win is no different than "I told you so" in a pretty awful loss.

If a poster is truly balanced...neither extreme viewpoint would bother them at all, they'd recognize it as opinion, just like their own and keep it moving.


False equivalency. For one thing the NATURE of a FANATIC is to be positive about the team they follow. Those of us who talk positively about the team only get upset when attacked or when the team is bashed by others who claim to also be FANATICS of the team. We aren't the same if we retort to those who have been repeatedly stating the team had no chance and was garbage. This is a Knicks Fan Forum. It's called Ultimate Knicks for goodness sakes. It should be expected that there will be some positive Knicks fans and less expected that there will be overtly negative Knicks fans who trash the team and sound a lot like trolling fans of a different team on other forums.

Moreover some of us have been subjected to Nasty jokes. It's what starts the slide down nasty back and forth. If you make one comment about being reasonable it gets jumped on. This was from game 1 thread:

Splat wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:It's easy to get crazy on a night where so much went wrong but you have to keep perspective.
im not too upset because i knew this was a rebuilding year but the sunshines and rainbows outlook is a lot to ask

Be kind. He's a tele-tubbie. He can drink sewage and fart lollipops.

This is a relatively mild exchange but you can see how it can escalate. It was an ugly loss but it was just one loss at the very start of the year. There is nothing wrong with advocating patience and perspective. Those of us who did got jumped on and it's only human to feel a need to strike back after taking it enough times.

knickscity
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11/1/2014  3:07 PM
nixluva wrote:
knickscity wrote:Just curious, do you guys honestly believe if the Knicks win that some fans are upset by that? If you answer yes, what makes you any different? It seems both polarizing opinions look to the final score to vent their own issues.

"Where the haters at?" in a regular season win is no different than "I told you so" in a pretty awful loss.

If a poster is truly balanced...neither extreme viewpoint would bother them at all, they'd recognize it as opinion, just like their own and keep it moving.


False equivalency. For one thing the NATURE of a FANATIC is to be positive about the team they follow. Those of us who talk positively about the team only get upset when attacked or when the team is bashed by others who claim to also be FANATICS of the team. We aren't the same if we retort to those who have been repeatedly stating the team had no chance and was garbage. This is a Knicks Fan Forum. It's called Ultimate Knicks for goodness sakes. It should be expected that there will be some positive Knicks fans and less expected that there will be overtly negative Knicks fans who trash the team and sound a lot like trolling fans of a different team on other forums.

Nah, that dog dont hunt, and I see you couldnt answer the question i asked. The question was simple...do you think fans would be upset if the Knicks win? but thats cool i expect you to dodge that.

This like another is a Knicks site to talk Knicks basketball primarily. The nature of fan is to cheer when it's good..boo when it's bad....how you view your team before the season starts does NOT indicate your fandom.

Harping on folks who dont see the team the way you do is no different. you've already admitted you arent balanced, so you're actual part of the agenda you claim to fight.

CrushAlot
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11/1/2014  3:19 PM
knickscity wrote:Just curious, do you guys honestly believe if the Knicks win that some fans are upset by that? If you answer yes, what makes you any different? It seems both polarizing opinions look to the final score to vent their own issues.

"Where the haters at?" in a regular season win is no different than "I told you so" in a pretty awful loss.

If a poster is truly balanced...neither extreme viewpoint would bother them at all, they'd recognize it as opinion, just like their own and keep it moving.

Maybe not upset but tepid in their reaction to a win. Look at game threads last year. Winning threads were much shorter then threads when the team lost and there was a lot more passion directed at reasons/players that some felt caused the loss or just made the team unlikeable for some posters.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
BigDaddyG
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11/1/2014  3:36 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/1/2014  3:37 PM
Panos wrote:
djsunyc wrote:i was the lone wolf surround by 7 knick fan idiots last night (raptors streaming on the laptop) - but here are the simple questions:

1. why implement the triangle when 90% of the roster will be gone next year?
2. and if you're so hell bent on implementing it - how about throwing the players a bone and running some regular offense while slowly incorporating the triangle?

vdesai made the best observation of the night - when you look at pat riley and phil jackson - great coaching contemporaries...then look at the coaching tree that sprouted from riley and compare that to the barren wasteland that phil jackson sprouted - it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize the triangle is 100% BS w/o 2 of the top 50 players of all time on the court.


Who is Pat Riley's "coaching tree" besides Jeff Van Gundy, now a broadcaster?


You also have Stan Van Gundy and we all know how that relationship ended. Phil has Brian Shaw, Kurt Rambis and Jim Cleammons seem to be pretty well respected in the league, so I wouldn't say Phil's sprouted a barren wasteland. It's just that Phil hired most of his guys to sit on our bench.
Also, if you look at those old Bulls and Lakers teams, there were plenty of Isis and pick and rolls sprinkled. I expect to see the same here.
Why teach the triangle now? At least four players, including our best player, have a giif chance of returning. Why not have players in place who help everyone else get adjusted next year?
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
H1AND1
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11/1/2014  3:40 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Panos wrote:
djsunyc wrote:i was the lone wolf surround by 7 knick fan idiots last night (raptors streaming on the laptop) - but here are the simple questions:

1. why implement the triangle when 90% of the roster will be gone next year?
2. and if you're so hell bent on implementing it - how about throwing the players a bone and running some regular offense while slowly incorporating the triangle?

vdesai made the best observation of the night - when you look at pat riley and phil jackson - great coaching contemporaries...then look at the coaching tree that sprouted from riley and compare that to the barren wasteland that phil jackson sprouted - it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize the triangle is 100% BS w/o 2 of the top 50 players of all time on the court.


Who is Pat Riley's "coaching tree" besides Jeff Van Gundy, now a broadcaster?


You also have Stan Van Gundy and we all know how that relationship ended. Phil has Brian Shaw, Kurt Rambis and Jim Cleammons seem to be pretty well respected in the league, so I wouldn't say Phil's sprouted a barren wasteland. It's just that Phil hired most of his guys to sit on our bench.
Also, if you look at those old Bulls and Lakers teams, there were plenty of Isis and pick and rolls sprinkled. I expect to see the same here.
Why teach the triangle now? At least four players, including our best player, have a giif chance of returning. Why not have players in place who help everyone else get adjusted next year?

The whole coaching tree thing is nonsense. What coaches win without star players no matter who their mentors are?

CrushAlot
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11/1/2014  3:41 PM
Interesting article on the Van Gundy brothers coaching tree.
Their pal and former assistant coach to both brothers, Steve Clifford, is flourishing in his first season as head coach of the Charlotte Bobcats and doing it with the help of another family favorite, associate head coach Patrick Ewing. Jeff's old prodigy from his New York Knicks and Houston Rockets days, the Chicago Bulls' Tom Thibodeau, is honoring the profession as always despite losing franchise centerpiece Derrick Rose to injury yet again for the rest of the season. Those ties run as deep as any, with Jeff having first met Thibodeau when the then-assistant coach at Harvard would routinely make the 70-mile trek to see Rick Pitino's practices at Providence College back when Jeff was a graduate assistant under him.

In Sacramento, Kings first-year coach Michael Malone – the son of longtime Stan Van Gundy lead assistant in Orlando, Brendan Malone – is heading the toughest of rebuilding efforts. Malone's first NBA job came under Jeff Van Gundy in 2001, as he was a coaching associate on his New York Knicks staff for a short time before Van Gundy quit in early December of that year.

The most high-profile connection may be the one between Jeff Van Gundy and Golden State Warriors coach Mark Jackson, his former partner as a television analyst who played for him briefly in Houston at the end of his career and with whom he remains close.


120313 Jeff Van Gundy
Jeff van Gundy and his brother Stan have seen several assistants go on to bigger and better things.(Photo: Debby Wong-USA TODAY Sports)

"I never even think of it (as a coaching tree)," Stan Van Gundy, the former Miami Heat and Orlando Magic head coach who is living with his family in Orlando, Fla. and doing occasional radio and television work, told USA TODAY Sports. "The reason I think you can call it a coaching tree (for Popovich) is that I think people get jobs simply because they have worked for Pop. I don't think we have anything like that…I just think that we've hired good people, and they've eventually gotten their chance."

Draw your own conclusions, but it's tough to dispute the track record of the coaches who have spent time with the Van Gundys. And while they both still have the itch to coach that won't be scratched again unless the situation is just right for their respective families, watching their favorite associates do so well is the next best thing to doing it themselves.

•The Bulls are on Jeff Van Gundy's four-team list of must-see-NBA-TV (Charlotte, the Knicks and Rockets being the others) for reasons beyond Thibodeau: Andy Greer, whose first job was given to him by Jeff and Stan's father, Bill, at Genessee Community College in 1983, is a trusted assistant of Thibodeau's and seen as head coaching material after serving as a Jeff Van Gundy assistant in Houston and New York; Adrian Griffin, who played for Jeff Van Gundy in Houston, is now the lead assistant under Thibodeau and seen by many as a future head coach after he was a finalist for the Philadelphia 76ers head job that went to Popovich disciple Brett Brown.
•The Phoenix Suns always catch Jeff's eye as well because of assistant coach Michael Longabardi, whose first break came courtesy of Clifford at the Division II Adelphi University in New York. From there, Longabardi received the highest recommendation possible in this circle – the one from top Van Gundy advisor, Bill – after the longtime small-college coach worked with him at an All-Star college camp in Italy in 2001. Jeff Van Gundy took his father's advice and hired Longabardi as a Rockets video coordinator in 2003, and he eventually had 'assistant coach' added to his title before moving on to the Boston Celtics in 2007 as an assistant under then-head coach Doc Rivers and Thibodeau (until he left for Chicago in 2010).


"(Longabardi) probably won't get his shot for another four or five years (as a head coach), but just like those other guys, I think when he does get his shot, he's going to knock it out of the park," Jeff Van Gundy, now an ABC/ESPN analyst, told USA TODAY Sports..

•Stan Van Gundy watches the Heat because of his past experience in Miami and ties to team president Pat Riley (his former boss) and head coach Erik Spoelstra (his former assistant); and he watches the Bobcats closely for reasons that go beyond Clifford: Bobcats assistant Bob Beyer was his assistant in Orlando from 2007 to 2012, and four-time All-Star point guard/Bobcats assistant Mark Price worked as a player development coach under Stan Van Gundy in Orlando from Dec. 2011 until he was fired five months later amid the Dwight Howard drama.


"I may flip to the other games, but I'm watching those all the time, because those are guys that I'm really close to," Stan Van Gundy said. "They're good friends. They're great coaches. They did a lot for me. I know how good they are, and I want to watch them all the time. I know Jeff is the same with Tom (Thibodeau) and with Steve (Clifford). It's what we really follow, are the guys who we've worked with."

But the root of it this alleged tree, at least as Jeff sees it, is Ewing.


120313 patrick ewing
Patrick Ewing should be a head coach, both Van Gundys say.(Photo: Sam Sharpe-USA TODAY Sports)

"If there's a tree in this story, it's Patrick Ewing's," Jeff said. "He made everybody in that whole Knick era (during his playing days )… So I'm the branch on his tree, believe me. And I realize that every day. That's why I called him the mortgage, because he paid mine and everybody else's for a long, long time.

"I don't think any great player – think about it, a top 50 players who pursued coaching – has ever been willing to put so much time and effort into this new craft. I have such respect for him, obviously, but also how he has gone about trying to become a great coach."

The brothers may have their disagreements from time to time on other matters, but on this they couldn't agree more: Ewing, the Hall of Famer who served for three seasons as an assistant with Jeff in Houston (2003-2006) and for five as an assistant with Stan during his Magic tenure (2007-2012), deserves to be a head coach.

"Anybody who has worked with Pat knows that he can do the job," Stan Van Gundy said. "People on the outside haven't picked up on that, and that's, I think, a little disappointing to all of us who have worked with him."

It's one of the few disappointments on this front, to be sure. And with the way this trend that surrounds them has gone of late, it's only a matter of time until he gets his chance too.

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I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
11/1/2014  3:47 PM
knickscity wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knickscity wrote:Just curious, do you guys honestly believe if the Knicks win that some fans are upset by that? If you answer yes, what makes you any different? It seems both polarizing opinions look to the final score to vent their own issues.

"Where the haters at?" in a regular season win is no different than "I told you so" in a pretty awful loss.

If a poster is truly balanced...neither extreme viewpoint would bother them at all, they'd recognize it as opinion, just like their own and keep it moving.


False equivalency. For one thing the NATURE of a FANATIC is to be positive about the team they follow. Those of us who talk positively about the team only get upset when attacked or when the team is bashed by others who claim to also be FANATICS of the team. We aren't the same if we retort to those who have been repeatedly stating the team had no chance and was garbage. This is a Knicks Fan Forum. It's called Ultimate Knicks for goodness sakes. It should be expected that there will be some positive Knicks fans and less expected that there will be overtly negative Knicks fans who trash the team and sound a lot like trolling fans of a different team on other forums.

Nah, that dog dont hunt, and I see you couldnt answer the question i asked. The question was simple...do you think fans would be upset if the Knicks win? but thats cool i expect you to dodge that.

This like another is a Knicks site to talk Knicks basketball primarily. The nature of fan is to cheer when it's good..boo when it's bad....how you view your team before the season starts does NOT indicate your fandom.

Harping on folks who dont see the team the way you do is no different. you've already admitted you arent balanced, so you're actual part of the agenda you claim to fight.


Why are you taking such a nasty tone? I didn't intentionally dodge your question. As for what the "Naysayers" would feel about the team winning I can't say, but that's really who we're talking about and not the general fans here. The guys who are overtly negative most of the time and who have expressed no faith in this current team, why should I expect anything but for them to go silent if the team is winning? I doubt they will ever really get behind this team. They for the most part have expressed "no confidence" for this team or leadership of the team.

I am the actual target group of the forum. It's called Ultimate Knicks. I support the team and simply have a more positive slant than a 100% balanced fan but that's still within the bounds of what you'd expect on a fan forum. What isn't the norm is so called fans who are basically NEVER positive towards anything the team does. Why would you expect a mostly negative fan of a team? I'm not exaggerating here cuz others have noticed this behavior. That's not what you'd expect from fans of a team.

If the team was only bad all the time then you could understand but that's not been the case. Despite the disappointment of not winning a title, this team has in the last few seasons been near or above it's expected level, with the exception of last season. They have not had a losing record every year.


2010-11 W/L - 42-40 .512 Lost 1st Rd Playoffs
2011-12 W/L - 36-30 .545 Lost 1st Rd Playoffs
2012-13 W/L - 54-28 .659 Lost 2nd Rd Playoffs
2013-14 W/L - 37-45 .451 No Playoffs
knickscity
Posts: 24533
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11/1/2014  4:00 PM
nixluva wrote:Why are you taking such a nasty tone?

No nasty tone at all, I comment on what I see, and I see a fan who is unable to enjoy their own team and discuss such by putting so much effort to disparage a few that dont share your view. If it's only a few why spend such energy? because in reality you're one and the same.

nixluva wrote:I didn't intentionally dodge your question.
You didnt answer it.

nixluva wrote:As for what the "Naysayers" would feel about the team winning I can't say, but that's really who we're talking about and not the general fans here. The guys who are overtly negative most of the time and who have expressed no faith in this current team, why should I expect anything but for them to go silent if the team is winning? I doubt they will ever really get behind this team. They for the most part have expressed "no confidence" for this team or leadership of the team.

I would assume I fall in this category, although I dont chat much in wins because I'm enjoying the win, but I'll make comments in-game should I be online.

nixluva wrote:I am the actual target group of the forum. It's called Ultimate Knicks. I support the team and simply have a more positive slant than a 100% balanced fan but that's still within the bounds of what you'd expect on a fan forum. What isn't the norm is so called fans who are basically NEVER positive towards anything the team does. Why would you expect a mostly negative fan of a team? I'm not exaggerating here cuz others have noticed this behavior. That's not what you'd expect from fans of a team.

A fan is a fan dude. No one is wasting their time posting here if they werent. I may call you delusional, but I'll never judge you on your fandom...thats not anyone's place to do so. if you believe a fan is supposed to automatically upbeat even when the odds dont support it...you're vastly alone on that.

nixluva wrote:If the team was only bad all the time then you could understand but that's not been the case. Despite the disappointment of not winning a title, this team has in the last few seasons been near or above it's expected level, with the exception of last season. They have not had a losing record every year.


2010-11 W/L - 42-40 .512 Lost 1st Rd Playoffs
2011-12 W/L - 36-30 .545 Lost 1st Rd Playoffs
2012-13 W/L - 54-28 .659 Lost 2nd Rd Playoffs
2013-14 W/L - 37-45 .451 No Playoffs

3 playoffs in the last decade isnt bad? Even in that 4 year sample thats not even good from team proclaimed "win now" if you want your team to ever win something more meaningful.

Thats like me watching the Jets and not admitting they suck, but praising every move made when I know they havent done well in those moves. I'm still a fan though, no one can change that.

Most of you aren't watching games and don't know what you are talking about

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