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We are going to win the Atlantic division..
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Splat
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10/25/2014  1:07 PM
EnySpree wrote:Being smart is overrated in this offense. It's about knowing where you ate supposed to be and where your teammates are supposed to be.

When they run the offense we play well and it's fun to watch. When the pressure is on guys revert to old habits. You can't do that. When things are shaky, you get it back by simply running the offense. Is not that hard. Guys need to have patience.

I heard Mike been talking about Melo trusting his teammates..... that's absolutely incorrect. Everyone needs to trust the offense. That will take care of everything.

Quote of the year? I say that with all due irony.

The one thing you need to run the triangle is intelligence, something this club has in very limited quantities.

You are so far off the mark. Not even close.

I've got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell!
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CrushAlot
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10/25/2014  1:09 PM
gunsnewing wrote:Larkin's improvement is encouraging. Calderon going down really helped him get experience under his belt. Enough experience so he doesn't look overwhelmed like he did earlier in preseason. He looks more comfortable in the triangle and because of it he is shooting with more confidence
AGree. I had been really disappointed in his play prior to his getting the starts. I do like Prigs as the backup more. Not sure that that is how Fisher plays it.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
djsunyc
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10/25/2014  1:11 PM
gunsnewing wrote:Just think how much better we look this training camp compared to last year's when we weren't competitive. This team is NOT going to be worst than last year's.

Toronto was plYing their main guys Lowry, Derozan etc to win the game

and what about last week when it was our 2nd/3rd stringers vs. the knicks starters?

i don't think it's about wins and losses in pre-season...it's about how you look as a team and as individual players.

right now, in the 2 games i've seen vs us, the knicks have 1 guy in melo and then dalembert...and then nothing. jose's impact will be drastically minimized in this offense, as will be the case with amare + jr + bargs. once you make them even less important, then you are relying alot on all the other guys - and those "other guys" are just not that good or are just too young.

so this thread about winning the atlantic is a pretty homerific not grounded in reality post. it's all good tho - marv had the nerve to be me money that the knicks were going to win 50 games this year. i hope he has enough left over for a new set of dentures.

Splat
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10/25/2014  1:12 PM
smackeddog wrote:The key for me is how big of a hole do we dig ourselves in the first half of the season. It's going to be a rocky start for sure, and if we don't find a way of gutting out some ugly wins with our defense while we're working our offence is awol, then we will just have a replay of last year (but with lottery pick to ease the pain).

Exactly. It is our defense that will be the difference between being a doormat and being just mediocre. And that's why I hold little hope for this season. We don't have the defenders and teams are going to party in the paint like its 1999.

I've got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell!
gunsnewing
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10/25/2014  1:29 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/25/2014  1:35 PM
djsunyc wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:Just think how much better we look this training camp compared to last year's when we weren't competitive. This team is NOT going to be worst than last year's.

Toronto was plYing their main guys Lowry, Derozan etc to win the game

and what about last week when it was our 2nd/3rd stringers vs. the knicks starters?

i don't think it's about wins and losses in pre-season...it's about how you look as a team and as individual players.

right now, in the 2 games i've seen vs us, the knicks have 1 guy in melo and then dalembert...and then nothing. jose's impact will be drastically minimized in this offense, as will be the case with amare + jr + bargs. once you make them even less important, then you are relying alot on all the other guys - and those "other guys" are just not that good or are just too young.

so this thread about winning the atlantic is a pretty homerific not grounded in reality post. it's all good tho - marv had the nerve to be me money that the knicks were going to win 50 games this year. i hope he has enough left over for a new set of dentures.

lol

Calderon will have a huge role. He is our most important player. I think he is perfect for the triangle and I'm glad we didn't trade for Lowry. Lowry is by far the better player but we don't want tradition PG's who dominate the ball. Clyde never averaged a ton of assists but he was a ball mover and floor leader. You saw it with Phil and his PG's. Offensively Calderon is perfect and the best be's had. He can really shoot that mid range jumper. If your OT can shoot it makes things so much easier. His defense is weak but that's why you start Shumpert next to him

smackeddog
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10/25/2014  1:31 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/25/2014  1:33 PM
Splat wrote:
smackeddog wrote:I was looking into the 1999-2000 Lakers to see how quickly they got to grips with the triangle. Unlike us, it seemed very quick with them- they won 67 games that season. Also surprising was their roster- outside of prime time Shaq and pre-prime Kobe, that roster wasn't very good:

Brian Shaw
Derek Fisher
John Celestand
Kobe Bryant
Ron Harper
Tyronn Lue
Glen Rice
Sam Jacobson
A.C. Green
Devean George
Rick Fox
Robert Horry
John Salley
Shaquille O'Neal
Travis Knight

Wow! Go ahead and tell us how

A.C. Green was not a seriously impactful ball player

and how this club wouldn't benefit from Year 2000 vintage Fisher and Shaw.

Or tell us how even aging veterans and champions like Robert Horry or John Salley wouldn't upgrade this current Knicks squad.

Hell, Year 2000 Glenn Rice and Rick Fox, Devean George, Tyronn Lue and Ron Harper would all be upgrades to this current club.

Sorry friend, but that club would dust this club like a hammer vs. a fruit fly.

Obviously that teams better than ours now, but back then it wasn't a sure fire championship team- fisher was not at his peak, he was pretty new to the league. Glen rice and AC Green were on the downside of their career. Fox was nothing special having just come over from some terrible veteran teams, and Horry was invisible in the regular season and hadn't yet achieved his Laker and Spur heroics.

Just goes to show you don't need flashy names and players- just hard working, two way guys who buy into the system.

We have hardly any vets like that- haven't really since the 90s

nixluva
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10/25/2014  1:31 PM
djsunyc wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:Just think how much better we look this training camp compared to last year's when we weren't competitive. This team is NOT going to be worst than last year's.

Toronto was plYing their main guys Lowry, Derozan etc to win the game

and what about last week when it was our 2nd/3rd stringers vs. the knicks starters?

i don't think it's about wins and losses in pre-season...it's about how you look as a team and as individual players.

right now, in the 2 games i've seen vs us, the knicks have 1 guy in melo and then dalembert...and then nothing. jose's impact will be drastically minimized in this offense, as will be the case with amare + jr + bargs. once you make them even less important, then you are relying alot on all the other guys - and those "other guys" are just not that good or are just too young.

so this thread about winning the atlantic is a pretty homerific not grounded in reality post. it's all good tho - marv had the nerve to be me money that the knicks were going to win 50 games this year. i hope he has enough left over for a new set of dentures.


Way to parachute in and totally not get the team at all. You are just reading way too much into how this team looks early in this process. You are totally missing the point that when this Knicks team is in the flow and guys are doing what they're capable of this team is BETTER than the Raptors. Yes when the Knicks are at their best they are BETTER than the Raptors. The Raptors have the advantage of not having to totally learn a new offense and defense, so it's easier for them to look good this early. That will not be the case all season.

Jose isn't really going to be minimized in terms of his ability to help get the team in the proper spacing and rhythm. When he does have the ball he will be able to effectively run the Pinch post 2 man game and that is a HUGE part of the offense. When the ball is swung it's Jose who will make the key decision with the ball. Then of course his highly efficient scoring will also be a positive for this team. It's simply not necessary for him to be ball dominant for him to have a positive impact. If Jose was playing in last nights game the Knicks win that game. Decision making at the close of games will be better than we've seen this preseason.
What you'll see is that the Knicks SG's will shoot higher % and will be less inconsistent as we've seen in preseason. Guys like Jason Smith will also benefit from things being run properly. This Knicks team is capable of winning 50 games and winning the Atlantic.

CrushAlot
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10/25/2014  1:33 PM
djsunyc wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:Just think how much better we look this training camp compared to last year's when we weren't competitive. This team is NOT going to be worst than last year's.

Toronto was plYing their main guys Lowry, Derozan etc to win the game

and what about last week when it was our 2nd/3rd stringers vs. the knicks starters?

i don't think it's about wins and losses in pre-season...it's about how you look as a team and as individual players.

right now, in the 2 games i've seen vs us, the knicks have 1 guy in melo and then dalembert...and then nothing. jose's impact will be drastically minimized in this offense, as will be the case with amare + jr + bargs. once you make them even less important, then you are relying alot on all the other guys - and those "other guys" are just not that good or are just too young.

so this thread about winning the atlantic is a pretty homerific not grounded in reality post. it's all good tho - marv had the nerve to be me money that the knicks were going to win 50 games this year. i hope he has enough left over for a new set of dentures.

Jose has looked really good and the team looks much better when he is on the floor. We haven't seen Bargs but in the perfect world he is a nice fit for this offense. Amare is what he is. JR has been having issues with his back. Hopefully when he is right his game will reflect that. This is a new year with a new front office and new coaching staff. There has been a lot of turnover in regards to players but I think it has been very positive. Things aren't the same in NY. I think the Raptor/KNick rivalry will be a good one. I also think the future is a lot brighter then some here think it is.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
smackeddog
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10/25/2014  1:38 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
djsunyc wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:Just think how much better we look this training camp compared to last year's when we weren't competitive. This team is NOT going to be worst than last year's.

Toronto was plYing their main guys Lowry, Derozan etc to win the game

and what about last week when it was our 2nd/3rd stringers vs. the knicks starters?

i don't think it's about wins and losses in pre-season...it's about how you look as a team and as individual players.

right now, in the 2 games i've seen vs us, the knicks have 1 guy in melo and then dalembert...and then nothing. jose's impact will be drastically minimized in this offense, as will be the case with amare + jr + bargs. once you make them even less important, then you are relying alot on all the other guys - and those "other guys" are just not that good or are just too young.

so this thread about winning the atlantic is a pretty homerific not grounded in reality post. it's all good tho - marv had the nerve to be me money that the knicks were going to win 50 games this year. i hope he has enough left over for a new set of dentures.

Jose has looked really good and the team looks much better when he is on the floor. We haven't seen Bargs but in the perfect world he is a nice fit for this offense. Amare is what he is. JR has been having issues with his back. Hopefully when he is right his game will reflect that. This is a new year with a new front office and new coaching staff. There has been a lot of turnover in regards to players but I think it has been very positive. Things aren't the same in NY. I think the Raptor/KNick rivalry will be a good one. I also think the future is a lot brighter then some here think it is.

Plus the reasons why you can't go on preseason games are teams don't tend to scout the other team as much, and players are playing with less intensity (which is why younger teams tend to do better than vets- the latter tend to be pacing themselves).

It can go either way- last year we were awful in preseason and were awful from then onwards, where as the year before looked bad in preseason but went on a tear.

gunsnewing
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10/25/2014  1:45 PM
I still can't get over how bad last year's preseason was. Woody was awful, the Grunwald and Chris smith thing. What an embarrassment
gunsnewing
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10/25/2014  1:49 PM
Splat wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
djsunyc wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:Just think how much better we look this training camp compared to last year's when we weren't competitive. This team is NOT going to be worst than last year's.

Toronto was plYing their main guys Lowry, Derozan etc to win the game

and what about last week when it was our 2nd/3rd stringers vs. the knicks starters?

i don't think it's about wins and losses in pre-season...it's about how you look as a team and as individual players.

right now, in the 2 games i've seen vs us, the knicks have 1 guy in melo and then dalembert...and then nothing. jose's impact will be drastically minimized in this offense, as will be the case with amare + jr + bargs. once you make them even less important, then you are relying alot on all the other guys - and those "other guys" are just not that good or are just too young.

so this thread about winning the atlantic is a pretty homerific not grounded in reality post. it's all good tho - marv had the nerve to be me money that the knicks were going to win 50 games this year. i hope he has enough left over for a new set of dentures.

lol

Calderon will have a huge role. He is our most important player. I think he is perfect for the triangle and I'm glad we didn't trade for Lowry. Lowry is by far the better player but we don't want tradition PG's who dominate the ball. Clyde never averaged a ton of assists but he was a ball mover and floor leader. You saw it with Phil and his PG's. Offensively Calderon is perfect and the best be's had. He can really shoot that mid range jumper. If your OT can shoot it makes things so much easier. His defense is weak but that's why you start Shumpert next to him

False. Clyde was among assist leaders in his day. The championship Knicks was one of the purest passing teams of all time. 8 Assists by Clyde on that team was aided and abetted by 4 other starters who could get 2-4 assists each plus bench players who passed and racked up assists. Clyde did everything. He was a master orchestrator. Citing him to make your point is just false.

That's true I guess I'm drawing the comparison to the Clyde who shared the backcourt with Monroe. I think that's what we hope to see from Calderon offensively. His defense sucks but you can't deny his IQ and efficiency. We've never had those 2 things from our PG. Not since Clyde. It's what made other guys like nash and Stockton great

gunsnewing
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10/25/2014  1:51 PM
A PG who can consistently hit a midrange jumper is a matchup nightmare. You never know when he is going to set up his teammates or shoot a jumper in your face. The days of teams forcing Felton to beat them from the perimeter are over. Less predictablity
Splat
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10/25/2014  1:52 PM
gunsnewing wrote:
That's true I guess I'm drawing the comparison to the Clyde who shared the backcourt with Monroe. I think that's what we hope to see from Calderon offensively. His defense sucks but you can't deny his IQ and efficiency. We've never had those 2 things from our PG. Not since Clyde. It's what made other guys like nash and Stockton great

I'd already deleted that post as it was just me overcommenting. Anyway, Jose is a whole other kettle of fish. Yes, the club is very dependent on him this year. That's about all there is to say at this point. He's no world beater. He's not a starter on the majority of the clubs as he heads into the twilight of his career.

Clyde was truly great. Jose is OK and nothing like prime Nash or Stockton, both of whom could weave a spell with their dribbling and passing. Jose is very simple. He knows how to play PG and he can shoot. That's an upgrade for now. Nothing more really. Plus he's here to educate the team on how to play basketball, something some of them are hearing about for the first time.

I've got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell!
nixluva
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10/25/2014  2:16 PM
Splat wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
That's true I guess I'm drawing the comparison to the Clyde who shared the backcourt with Monroe. I think that's what we hope to see from Calderon offensively. His defense sucks but you can't deny his IQ and efficiency. We've never had those 2 things from our PG. Not since Clyde. It's what made other guys like nash and Stockton great

I'd already deleted that post as it was just me overcommenting. Anyway, Jose is a whole other kettle of fish. Yes, the club is very dependent on him this year. That's about all there is to say at this point. He's no world beater. He's not a starter on the majority of the clubs as he heads into the twilight of his career.

Clyde was truly great. Jose is OK and nothing like prime Nash or Stockton, both of whom could weave a spell with their dribbling and passing. Jose is very simple. He knows how to play PG and he can shoot. That's an upgrade for now. Nothing more really. Plus he's here to educate the team on how to play basketball, something some of them are hearing about for the first time.


Jose is constantly underappreciated. Jose isn't a PG that is there to be a dominant force. He's there to create a flow for the team that can make it function properly. We don't need a PG to try and make stuff happen all the time. This team needs a brain and he can provide that. In that way his impact is to make the others better and that's what we want.

When he does look to score it's often a surprise to the opposing D. That makes him more effective. It's up to Fish to get Jose and Prigs to be a touch more aggressive looking to shoot when open. I think that is gonna happen. I did see them both taking good open shots. We have 2 of the most efficient guys in the league.


Hollinger Stats - True Shooting Percentage - Qualified Point Guards
RK PLAYER GP MPG TS% AST TO USG ORR DRR REBR PER VA EWA
1 Pablo Prigioni, NY 66 19.4 .642 47.1 12.4 10.8 3.2 8.8 5.9 13.02 38.7 1.3
2 Stephen Curry, GS 78 36.5 .610 26.7 11.8 28.2 1.8 10.9 6.4 24.13 557.6 18.6
3 Jose Calderon, DAL 81 30.5 .596 30.0 8.2 16.4 1.4 7.6 4.5 15.25 156.4 5.2
4 Patty Mills, SA 81 18.9 .588 16.3 6.9 21.2 2.6 9.6 6.2 18.80 177.7 5.9
5 Chris Paul, LAC 62 35.0 .580 36.2 7.9 25.0 2.0 11.4 6.9 25.98 485.2 16.2
Splat
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10/25/2014  2:21 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/25/2014  2:24 PM
nixluva wrote:
Splat wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
That's true I guess I'm drawing the comparison to the Clyde who shared the backcourt with Monroe. I think that's what we hope to see from Calderon offensively. His defense sucks but you can't deny his IQ and efficiency. We've never had those 2 things from our PG. Not since Clyde. It's what made other guys like nash and Stockton great

I'd already deleted that post as it was just me overcommenting. Anyway, Jose is a whole other kettle of fish. Yes, the club is very dependent on him this year. That's about all there is to say at this point. He's no world beater. He's not a starter on the majority of the clubs as he heads into the twilight of his career.

Clyde was truly great. Jose is OK and nothing like prime Nash or Stockton, both of whom could weave a spell with their dribbling and passing. Jose is very simple. He knows how to play PG and he can shoot. That's an upgrade for now. Nothing more really. Plus he's here to educate the team on how to play basketball, something some of them are hearing about for the first time.


Jose is constantly underappreciated. Jose isn't a PG that is there to be a dominant force. He's there to create a flow for the team that can make it function properly. We don't need a PG to try and make stuff happen all the time. This team needs a brain and he can provide that. In that way his impact is to make the others better and that's what we want.

When he does look to score it's often a surprise to the opposing D. That makes him more effective. It's up to Fish to get Jose and Prigs to be a touch more aggressive looking to shoot when open. I think that is gonna happen. I did see them both taking good open shots. We have 2 of the most efficient guys in the league.


Hollinger Stats - True Shooting Percentage - Qualified Point Guards
RK PLAYER GP MPG TS% AST TO USG ORR DRR REBR PER VA EWA
1 Pablo Prigioni, NY 66 19.4 .642 47.1 12.4 10.8 3.2 8.8 5.9 13.02 38.7 1.3
2 Stephen Curry, GS 78 36.5 .610 26.7 11.8 28.2 1.8 10.9 6.4 24.13 557.6 18.6
3 Jose Calderon, DAL 81 30.5 .596 30.0 8.2 16.4 1.4 7.6 4.5 15.25 156.4 5.2
4 Patty Mills, SA 81 18.9 .588 16.3 6.9 21.2 2.6 9.6 6.2 18.80 177.7 5.9
5 Chris Paul, LAC 62 35.0 .580 36.2 7.9 25.0 2.0 11.4 6.9 25.98 485.2 16.2

OK Jose Fan Club chairman, I don't see the point of your replying. We all know Jose can shoot well and no one suggested otherwise.

Nobody here has slammed Jose so why are you so eager to defend him? His limitations are obvious. Opposing guards will fly around him like drunk virgins circling the maypole. He will direct traffic. Him good at this.

I like Jose and Pablo just fine and dandy for what they are, old vets who can educate and direct their teammates, surely things you want on a club. But they are backup quality at this point, so Jose is just another transitional player, the best Phil could get for his purposes. Don't start telling us now that Jose is an elite PG. Puhleeze don't.

What you continue to do is overlook roster vulnerability.

We will be lucky as hell if Jose and Pablo are full service players the whole season. Pray they stay healthy, because if either one goes down, then you'll have one old starting PG and Larkin. That's not going to cut it.

I've got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell!
knickscity
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10/25/2014  2:22 PM
gunsnewing wrote:I still can't get over how bad last year's preseason was. Woody was awful, the Grunwald and Chris smith thing. What an embarrassment

Has Wear been signed yet?

knicks1248
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10/25/2014  2:24 PM
knickscity wrote:
smackeddog wrote:I was looking into the 1999-2000 Lakers to see how quickly they got to grips with the triangle. Unlike us, it seemed very quick with them- they won 67 games that season. Also surprising was their roster- outside of prime time Shaq and pre-prime Kobe, that roster wasn't very good:

Brian Shaw
Derek Fisher
John Celestand
Kobe Bryant
Ron Harper
Tyronn Lue
Glen Rice
Sam Jacobson
A.C. Green
Devean George
Rick Fox
Robert Horry
John Salley
Shaquille O'Neal
Travis Knight

It's pretty hard to grasp "outside of prime kobe and shaq". I notice one name in particular...Ron Harper, which likely brought on to help transistion the trinagle on the court, as evident by him being a starter. And it seems to team was littered with savvy player and guys who's previously won in the NBA.

To say "not very good" is seriously inaccurate.

You could pull up every one of phils championship rosters and look at the role players, i mean BRIAN SHAW, FISHER, LUE, they didn't even avg 8 points.

Lowry was a halfway decent pg with the rockets who lost his starting( not even sure he ever started) spot and got traded to the rapts who was shopping him after just one yr. Lets not forget he was calderone's back up http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400278270 last yr.

So now you want to say he's better than calderone. Watch and see how well calderone runs the triangle, it's tailor made for him and Bargiani.

It's the players that make the system and the knicks have solid players that fit the system perfectly. The raptors were going no where until they traded gay, and lowry started learning, listening and buying in.

More importantly, you have committed players, and once you have that, it's just a matter of time before you'll see consistent execution.

ES
Splat
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10/25/2014  2:25 PM
knickscity wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:I still can't get over how bad last year's preseason was. Woody was awful, the Grunwald and Chris smith thing. What an embarrassment

Has Wear been signed yet?

No word of it. Would be one of the better indicators of management smarts IMO if he is.

I've got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell!
gunsnewing
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10/25/2014  2:29 PM
Seems Phil really like Wear. He really fits with his IQ AND ball handling. Needs to work on defensive principles like any young player. Hopefully he gets the chance in Westchester
knicks1248
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10/25/2014  2:30 PM
Splat wrote:
smackeddog wrote:I was looking into the 1999-2000 Lakers to see how quickly they got to grips with the triangle. Unlike us, it seemed very quick with them- they won 67 games that season. Also surprising was their roster- outside of prime time Shaq and pre-prime Kobe, that roster wasn't very good:

Brian Shaw
Derek Fisher
John Celestand
Kobe Bryant
Ron Harper
Tyronn Lue
Glen Rice
Sam Jacobson
A.C. Green
Devean George
Rick Fox
Robert Horry
John Salley
Shaquille O'Neal
Travis Knight

Wow! Go ahead and tell us how

A.C. Green was not a seriously impactful ball player

and how this club wouldn't benefit from Year 2000 vintage Fisher and Shaw.

Or tell us how even aging veterans and champions like Robert Horry or John Salley wouldn't upgrade this current Knicks squad.

Hell, Year 2000 Glenn Rice and Rick Fox, Devean George, Tyronn Lue and Ron Harper would all be upgrades to this current club.

Sorry friend, but that club would dust this club like a hammer vs. a fruit fly.


Those role players benefitted from having shaq and Kobe, are you kidding me, Cmon dude get real

ES
We are going to win the Atlantic division..

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