So my question to you, OP, is OK Google, what drugs are you smoking/ingesting?

Its way too early to pronounce this team as anything more than a series of question marks.

We might be good, might be bad.

I haven't seen any flashes of a team that is going to wrap up the atlantic division...

We'll be fighting Boston and Brooklyn

We have too many negatives working against us

knicks1248 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:Nope the Raptors will win Division

We'll be fighting Boston and Brooklyn

We have too many negatives working against us

and so many positives as well, so you sit there and dwell on the negatives..

J.R. Smith, Amar'e, Bargnani

2 guard inconsistency, no center depth

Triangle system learning curve

Tough schedule out the gate

It is possible the Atlantic could be so bad the 4th through 8th seeds may be teams in the other two divisions, leaving only one Atlantic division team in the playoffs.

Citing the 54 win season makes little sense as that was not a very good team that had a hot start and a hot finish and was dog crap for the whole middle of the season. Struggled to beat Boston in 6, then tanked against Indy, partly due to horrific coaching, partly due to some truly unreliable players, one of whom we still unfortunately have.

This has not been a good team for years, certainly not while Melo has been here. They've never been close in any way to being a contender and until you are able to say you could play for your conference title and potentially win it, you're not a good team. We have not been a team of that caliber this century and we sure as hell are not going to be this year.

arkrud wrote:

Splat wrote:Toronto has much better players at key positions. They'd have to really screw up not to win a weak Atlantic division.

It is possible the Atlantic could be so bad the 4th through 8th seeds may be teams in the other two divisions, leaving only one Atlantic division team in the playoffs.

Citing the 54 win season makes little sense as that was not a very good team that had a hot start and a hot finish and was dog crap for the whole middle of the season. Struggled to beat Boston in 6, then tanked against Indy, partly due to horrific coaching, partly due to some truly unreliable players, one of whom we still unfortunately have.

This has not been a good team for years, certainly not while Melo has been here. They've never been close in any way to being a contender and until you are able to say you could play for your conference title and potentially win it, you're not a good team. We have not been a team of that caliber this century and we sure as hell are not going to be this year.

This year will be to work hard and earn back respect of the fans and NBA.
Winning is the goal but not the reality yet.
And to contend we need more that 1 real NBA player.
So Zen and Co have a lot of work to do to grow or trade for them.

Yes, respect. They'll earn mine by not giving up even if they can't make the grade this year. Some here are acting like they are already enchanted by this current collection of players as if the new culture has already ripened into its full glory and this set of players is sufficient to make serious noise in the league. That's impatient in my book, overstepping reality.

I'm patient. I'd say overstating the competency of this current roster is what is impatient, evidencing a forced and shallow and unconvincing and unfounded optimism I see being expressed here because we are on the brink of Game 1.

Patience could mean three years or maybe never. Phil and Fish are no locks to produce a championship here. Fan loyalty doesn't entitle any of us to victory.

People can believe what they want to believe, but I'm seeing a whole lot of fake optimism being spouted here tonight.

We may be better than last year or we may be worse, but the league doesn't stand still so what we do is measured against this year's competition, not last year's. But we'll have to really overachieve to be a .500 club with this set of players. If we do that, then Fish is going to be a good coach and I'll leave the door open that he is and that he can work wonders.

This team is one or two injuries away from a massive losing streak, so stop counting your chickens. We have very little high quality players or matured players, so whatever you want to call depth on this squad is truly brittle thin and prone to breakage. The better teams have the depth to handle a loss of a key player. We probably do not.

The Knicks will have stretches where they have issues with the new Offense and Defense, but those poor stretches will happen less often as they move along and the rotation gets settled. I think some of us are WAY overselling the East and underselling the Knicks. The Raptors are not world beaters!

1. The Knicks offense is better. It's not smooth yet but it's a better overall style of play that will allow this team to play well more consistently once they fully adjust. Tonight they just shot the ball poorly but they had 17 assists and only 12 turnovers. A few more made baskets and they would've won. In the regular season they have to avoid long stretches where they fail to execute like what happened tonight. When this team executes the offense they are effective.

2. The Knicks defense is better. It is a better scheme than the switching defense they had last year. They should only get better as they work on it and the chemistry develops. Preseason is over and now the team will be playing the core rotation players more and that's when the chemistry will be able to develop. As Fish said he figures they have about 175 days to get better and that's what he and his staff are going to do.

3. The Knicks roster is better. This team has better balance and good depth. Phil has given Fish a better group to work with but it's gonna take work to get guys comfortable in the new system. It's easy to freak out because guys are having a hard time adjusting and the team as a whole has bad stretches but that was to be expected. It's not a permanent situation. It's unrealistic to think they won't continue to get better as they clearly have over the course of the preseason.

nixluva wrote:The Knicks have enough talent to compete in the East. More importantly we now have the coaching this team needed to keep improving and to be more effective in the playoffs. The Raptors are not head and shoulders better than the Knicks and neither are the Nets. So why shouldn't the Knicks have a shot to win the Atlantic?

Kyle Lowry
DeMar DeRozan
Jonas Valančiūnas
Greivis Vásquez
Bruno Caboclo
Terrence Ross
James Johnson
Amir Johnson
Lucas Nogueira
Patrick Patterson
Greg Stiemsma
Jordan Hamilton
Will Cherry
Landry Fields
Tyler Hansbrough
Nando de Colo
Chuck Hayes
Julyan Stone

Jonas V is one of the top young center prospects in the NBA. His defense won't wow anyone, but he's got all the talent in the world on offense. The Knicks, even most of the league, have nothing close to the Lowry/DeRozan combo. That's a backcourt in it's prime. Vasquez is a capable third guard. Amir Johnson is one of the best value contracts in the league. Ross is a young high upside swingman who still has developmental room.

6'4 aging Chuck Hayes, essentially their 5th big, is a better big man defender right now over ANYONE on the Knicks frontline.

Hansborough, Hayes and Landry Fields are all expirings, the Raptors will have about 20 million in freed up cap space next offseason plus high upside rookie Caboclo ( Knicks have nothing to match his athleticism package, whether he pans out, will be hard to say)

Plus they own the Knicks 2016 first rounder.

They have Ujiri, who is considered one of the best young GMs in the game. And they aren't paying him 60 million to know he won't be there in five years. Aside from Melo, every single one of the Raptors starters would be starting over the Knicks starters if there was a choice. ( please do not argue that the Knicks, outside of Melo, have something superior to Lowry, DeRozan, Jonas V and Amir Johnson.)

If the Knicks win the Atlantic, it will be because it's a slap fight, not because the Knicks are chewing up strong teams in their wake.

Boston and Philly are cashing it in. They will surrender wins to get a better draft position. Even still, both teams still have superior front court talent compared to the Knicks. The Nets are old, I can hear Brook Lopez and Kevin Garnett breaking something right now. And have questionable depth after their aging core.

Yes, the Knicks can, in THEORY, take the Atlantic. If the Raptors get hit with major injuries, Lopez and Garnett fall apart as expected and having 40 percent of the division be willing to offer up 3rd string talent to openly tank for the future.

The Knicks winning the Atlantic that way ( which would be the only way) is like bragging about banging four depressed couch surfing chicks from the Jenny Craig clinic next door, with the applicable Cheeto dust all over them, to your job. FOUR OF THEM! FOUR 2's COULD BE SEEN AS ONE 8 BY SOME!

The Knicks, even with Melo, have the least amount of overall talent in the Atlantic. And they have the bleakest future. ( At least the Nets can make the playoffs consistently with that aging unit)

TripleThreat wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Knicks have enough talent to compete in the East. More importantly we now have the coaching this team needed to keep improving and to be more effective in the playoffs. The Raptors are not head and shoulders better than the Knicks and neither are the Nets. So why shouldn't the Knicks have a shot to win the Atlantic?

Kyle Lowry
DeMar DeRozan
Jonas Valančiūnas
Greivis Vásquez
Bruno Caboclo
Terrence Ross
James Johnson
Amir Johnson
Lucas Nogueira
Patrick Patterson
Greg Stiemsma
Jordan Hamilton
Will Cherry
Landry Fields
Tyler Hansbrough
Nando de Colo
Chuck Hayes
Julyan Stone

Jonas V is one of the top young center prospects in the NBA. His defense won't wow anyone, but he's got all the talent in the world on offense. The Knicks, even most of the league, have nothing close to the Lowry/DeRozan combo. That's a backcourt in it's prime. Vasquez is a capable third guard. Amir Johnson is one of the best value contracts in the league. Ross is a young high upside swingman who still has developmental room.

6'4 aging Chuck Hayes, essentially their 5th big, is a better big man defender right now over ANYONE on the Knicks frontline.

Hansborough, Hayes and Landry Fields are all expirings, the Raptors will have about 20 million in freed up cap space next offseason plus high upside rookie Caboclo ( Knicks have nothing to match his athleticism package, whether he pans out, will be hard to say)

Plus they own the Knicks 2016 first rounder.

They have Ujiri, who is considered one of the best young GMs in the game. And they aren't paying him 60 million to know he won't be there in five years. Aside from Melo, every single one of the Raptors starters would be starting over the Knicks starters if there was a choice. ( please do not argue that the Knicks, outside of Melo, have something superior to Lowry, DeRozan, Jonas V and Amir Johnson.)

If the Knicks win the Atlantic, it will be because it's a slap fight, not because the Knicks are chewing up strong teams in their wake.

Boston and Philly are cashing it in. They will surrender wins to get a better draft position. Even still, both teams still have superior front court talent compared to the Knicks. The Nets are old, I can hear Brook Lopez and Kevin Garnett breaking something right now. And have questionable depth after their aging core.

Yes, the Knicks can, in THEORY, take the Atlantic. If the Raptors get hit with major injuries, Lopez and Garnett fall apart as expected and having 40 percent of the division be willing to offer up 3rd string talent to openly tank for the future.

The Knicks winning the Atlantic that way ( which would be the only way) is like bragging about banging four depressed couch surfing chicks from the Jenny Craig clinic next door, with the applicable Cheeto dust all over them, to your job. FOUR OF THEM! FOUR 2's COULD BE SEEN AS ONE 8 BY SOME!

The Knicks, even with Melo, have the least amount of overall talent in the Atlantic. And they have the bleakest future. ( At least the Nets can make the playoffs consistently with that aging unit)

lol - brilliant.

the knicks just don't have enough smart players or defenders to bring out the best of the triangle (if there is such a thing). not this year.

the raptors are not world beaters but they are going to win the division (and probably quite easily) b/c they do have a functioning team with built in chemistry and actual young versatile talent. plus they have lowry - who has the will to win. the non-lowry trade was one of the dumbest things the knicks ever did. thank you for that.

the knicks will be in the 30's in the win totals - which puts thems squarely in no mans land...