Tim Hardaway JR is learning off JR Smith's poor shot selection and should be pulled out everytime he heaves a poor shot, despite making it or not to correct his habit
He holds the most value in terms of "trade value" since he is locked in his rookie contract for a couple more years and has great scoring ability/shot/ and improved his ability to penetrate
If we can get back a 1st round pick in this years draft and 2 2nd round picks, I would easily say do it as I don't think he will ever be a better than average defender

STAT is our best post up option, however, he lacks IQ and the ability to create for the team by passing out of the post effectively like Pau Gasol did
His DEF is pretty bad, he can give you a block every now and then but his 1v1 DEF is horrible while his team DEF is a bit better while AB is the complete opposite

Calderon controls the tempo, has great shooting ability, has the ability to play on and off the ball, and will always look to get team mates involved
While is DEF is not good, it isn't as poor as Pablo's though
He was brought in as part of a culture change, to provide leadership, control the tempo, play on and off the ball, shoot the 3pter at a high % rate, and have a great TO/Assist ratio
We also were able to get 2 2nd round picks that turned in to Early/Tenacious and bought a 3rd pick to stash

Iman is by far our best defender, however, he needs to play with DEFENSIVE players that know how to pressure the opponents with him, like a Tenacious/Acy/Jason Smith and greater talents like a Noah
For that reason, I think he is the most valuable to the team
Iman plays without an ego and doesn't play hero ball, he doesn't play to get STAT's or numbers
I hate to use numbers to justify what a player is worth to the team but that is what GM's use to determine the value of a player and that is something CA understands, a reason why he loved Woodson's system
Iman will be a restricted FA and it is unlikely he will be extended unless he agrees to a short term deal in the range of 2.5m - 5m (max) probably closer to 3.5m per year on a 2 year deal, maybe 3rd year player/team option
IF Iman gets a contract like Fields, I think we are forced to let him go, as we are better of using the $ elsewhere as we already overpayed for CA and Calderon, both combining for 30m alone

AB is by far our worst recent trade, while we could have kept Copeland with our MINI MLE or maybe even offer him just a bit of it to stay like a 2-2.5m deal out of the 3.3m MLE
Instead we decided to use it on Pablo/MWP, which are mistakes on top of the Mini MLE prior to them with Jason Kidd...
We loss our 2016 1st round pick, and 2 2nd rounders as well, yes OKC's pick was the last pick of the draft but we could have used that pick to stash a player for future value
Lets not forget Isiah Thomas was the final pick of the draft, Jeremy Lin undrafted, some other 2nd round picks include Marc Gasol, Lance Stephenson, Manu, and many other talents

CA, yes he is a talented scorer but is he worth the contract he got, 5year 126m?
With his salary you could get many combinations of talents like

Al Jefferson
Millsap
Randy Foye/Speights/Hickson

We have our own 1st round pick this year and it would have been a high pick had we let CA go which will be 35 by the time his contract ends
Instead we are in the worst possible place we can be in the NBA, right in the middle
Maybe if we didn't trade for AB, Phil Jackson might have went another direction, in addition to the 2 2nd round picks as well
However, as talented as CA might be, I just don't think he is worth the sacrfices and cap spaces we have made while trying to build a team around him when he was here, digging a hole that we cannot get out of
At that price, he isn't even a leader/facilitator/lock down defender, we should have traded him prior to last season while we could have still got a lot of assets for him
Maybe he does have a big black book but if he is unable to lure any of his buddies over to come play with him, his contract hurts our flexbility, but lets see what happens next summer when we will have about 30m to spend in FA

gunsnewing wrote:How he is used and his role plays a big part. He had no role now he will

I agree with that

Shump
Acy
Dalembert

... they fit a certain profile

gunsnewing wrote:Phil said they are working on his shooting mechanics. Trying to get him to be consistent with his mechanics and how high he jumps on his shot attempts. This is the first season where he will have a role. In the past he was just told to stand in the corner. They never worked on his mechanics. Now with an increased role they absolutely will. That goes for everyone even guys like acy and Dalembert. See Phil's comments on what each player needs to work on to improve and fit the system. We are no longer just relying on 2-3 players to do all the scoring. This is what the triangle is about

I mean I like the guy. He plays hard. He's not a good player and hasnt been. Can that change? Can he flourish in a new role? Sure. But certainly on offense he's shown little to nothing that says this guy is going to be a good offensive player in the NBA. He strikes me as a 20mpg defensive bench guy at best. He's equally close to being the next Dahntay Jones and sadly I think that might be more realistic. Lets hope Im dead wrong and he's a rotation guy playing great defense and knocking down jumpers. That hasnt happened yet. Seeing is believing.

Based on the whole mindset of system culture change

Although you could make arguments for many different

Players having 2nd most value if they lived up to expectations

TripleThreat wrote:

callmened wrote:folks, i apologize for the bad working in the question. which person is the 2nd most NEEDED player besides melo? not trade value or talent. just the most needed. So far it looks like the people have voted for jose.

(ill keep taking votes until game time 2nite. thanks)

Any shift in the words used, it's still going to be Cleanthony Early IMHO. Sorry, but without someone to develop and to see if he can develop, and he has the best chance to develop into a core player out of all the young players, even THJ who has zero defensive instincts period, then this season is a pure waste.

The Knicks NEED Early to break through, develop, and play at a much more veteran level than is normally expected as a rookie. It's not fair to Early, but it's what the Knicks need.

For example, Andre Drummond (I'm not saying Early can be that or have that impact), he showed clearly in his rookie year that he was a guy you could build around, the talent was there, the development was further along more than anyone could hope.

The Knicks made some decent sized sacrifices to get this guy on the roster. It has to be for a reason.

That's a fresh answer and I support it. This season is not going to amount to much, but it shouldn't be a throwaway year. The long view says develop the players who can have an impact in the coming seasons.

I've seen enough of the personnel in pre-season to know there will be no miracles this season. I opened up the pre-season with enough optimism, but I'm no kool-aid drinker. There is no way we are going to compete for anything this year, so if a player like Early gets buried on the bench and is not given a shot to play, then something is very wrong here.

Timmy has yet to prove he is anything other than a utility player who can provide points off the bench. However, he should be given
a chance to develop too, since he could be valuable if he learns to play defense and shows a desire to play it.

There really is no 2nd best player on this team right now. Its a collection of loose ends surrounding an overpaid, overrated star.