RonRon wrote:Larkin
JR Smith
STAT/AB

I just don't understand why we MUST run the triangle and the triangle alone
While, I do want the players on the roster to learn how to execute the system, I think the players above are PnR players with talents
Shouldn't we playing the strenghts of the personel we have?

At least untill we collect the talents we need to fully impliment the triangle?
With the East being fairly open for the last 3 spots or so, shouldn't we be focused on trying to WIN?

Calderon/CA could play well and fit in any system on OFF

The thing about the triangle is you must have a dominant POST presence that has the ability to

1- score 1v1
2- create double teams AND be able to past out of it (STAT showed he can score but is not a facilitator/passer)
3- have the shooters/good cuts/spacing, and probing to react how the defense plays them (in other words have high IQ, look to take high % shots, and create for others with catch and shoot)

UK Posters here must understand that the triangle limits the ability for guards, especially PG's, to penetrate and finish all the way as the post will usually have a help defender there due to the system

Guards can still penetrate but it is more about penetrating to draw defenders and dishing out to a shooter or cuttor
If they score, it is about using a pull up or jump shot, rather than penetrate all the way like majority of the entire NBA

The PnR is the most simple play to run and execute, while it is also the hardest to defend
THere is a reason why the entire league is running it, why should we limit ourselves to just the Triangle?

You underestimate the flexibility of the Triangle. Right now we have guys trying to learn to run the system which entails a lot of basic information. They have to get the spacing, timing, movement and passing down. Once they have the basic concepts they will understand how to freelance within the offense.

Also you have to understand that there are plenty of PnR two man game opportunities in the Triangle. They just don't focus the attack on the PnR. You also get a lot of give and go options. There are openings to freelance as well. It's just gonna take time for everyone to recognize the options.

This video from a court level view might be helpful to see how much motion is going on.
http://www.nba.com/knicks/video/2014/10/15/141014_CourtsideViewmp4/

Splat wrote:

Panos wrote:So I've seen separate reports that Acy or Jason Smith could be our starting PF.
If Amare is 100% healthy, how come he is not in the conversation as possible starter?

New Regime wants new culture

Your starting five is the essential statement to your team as whole as to how you want them to play the game. On a roster without many high level defenders, the first unit has to be the best defensive unit overall to set the tone for this team. If they play well together, they can score enough to get leads early if the D is there.

That requires a unit that plays team defense and implements the triangle, neither of which Stat is qualified for. Of the two frontline bigs with expiring contracts, Bargs is way more suitable to start than Amare.

But neither will likely start unless there is a shortage of bodies due to injury, because they are not part of the future. They will be used in a utilitarian fashion to fill in holes where needed.

Stat is the worst choice for a starter on this present team. Acy or Smith are far more appropriate.

Oh, and did you somehow forget Stat has a history of not playing well with Melo on the floor? Occasionally, but mostly not.

Amare is already in the rear view mirror for this club. He could play if he plays D and doesn't become a ball stopper and gets his points in the flow of the game. Or he could end up riding the bench. But he is not going to be a featured player, unless they have a trading partner already lined up and want to give him a little shine. But showcasing him now in order to entice a trade makes no sense.

Quincy Acy has started at power forward in the Knicks' past three preseason games. But it seems there remains an open competition for the job.

Derek Fisher reiterated Friday that "things are still open and fluid" with his starting lineups. One of the biggest question marks surrounds the starting power forward.

Acy has played well in the past three games. But Jason Smith has also impressed the coaching staff.

"Jason Smith has played some good minutes for us the last couple games since he’s been back, and there’s no reason why he couldn't maybe crack into that [starting lineup]," Fisher said Friday.
Smith missed the first two preseason games because of the birth of his daughter. He had 14 points and five rebounds in 24 minutes in the Knicks' win over Philly on Tuesday.

Smith is competing with Acy, Amar'e Stoudemire and Andrea Bargnani for minutes at power forward.

Bargnani has missed all but one of the Knicks' preseason games because of a hamstring injury.

Fisher has said that Bargnani's injury makes it difficult to evaluate his options at power forward.

The coach praised the starting lineup featuring Acy on Friday but hinted that he may change the lineup for Monday's preseason game against Milwaukee.

"Depending on how things materialize with Andrea over the next few days, we may or may not keep it the same," Fisher said.

Fisher impressed with J.R.: J.R. Smith has made some news recently by saying it will take the Knicks a few months to learn the triangle (he's right). But Smith's adjustment to the system thus far has impressed his head coach.

"Jay has been great from day one. He’s engaged, he’s asking questions. He wants to get this right," Fisher said. "And we as a staff, we appreciate it and value it tremendously. The more guys we have like that the better. And so you can see on a daily basis, he’s picking more things up. The type of questions he asks are with understanding of most of it, and then maybe there’s one thing to add to it. But he’s coming along really well and we’re looking forward to what he can do for us as he gets more comfortable."

Fisher was asked Friday if he felt the need to address the issue of maturity or off-court conduct with Smith, as ex-coach Mike Woodson had over the past two seasons when Smith got into trouble with the league and the team.

"What I've tried to do with all of our guys, not just J.R., is kind of manage our relationship based on our relationship and not the relationships they have may have had with other people and other coaches," Smith said. "I can only measure our relationship on our experiences, and so far it hasn't been necessary to address anyone about maturity and accountability and trying to be one of the many leaders that we'll need within our team. J's been great in that fashion, and I don't see any reason why he wouldn't continue. He's a smart player, and he's continuing to figure out ways to be effective within what we're doing."

Question: Do you think Jason Smith should start at power forward?

You can follow Ian Begley on Twitter.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/523881145151553536

Ruled out for tomorrow's game already.

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:J Smith was likely signed to start at pf, although Acy certainly has given him a run for that, which is definitely good to see.

Jason has the right combination of skills and energy. He's got size, shooting, toughness, BB IQ, some D. He's basically a more rugged Bargs. In this system he fits right in. Acy has great energy but isn't quite the shooter and lacks the size to go up against big PF/C's. Still he has been good but I think Phil n Fish imagined playing a bigger lineup to start.

Acy pretty much has forced his way into the rotation as a player that can be counted on for exactly what Fisher demands primarily defense and energy. thats what Fish talks about, thats what Acy does....thats why Phil acquired him. I'm a firm believer that any player can score, Acy recognizes that as he has improved his offense since coming into the league. He'll do fine whether starting or not....he works hard on the court every minute he's out there.

RonRon wrote:

nixluva wrote:

RonRon wrote:Larkin
JR Smith
STAT/AB

I just don't understand why we MUST run the triangle and the triangle alone
While, I do want the players on the roster to learn how to execute the system, I think the players above are PnR players with talents
Shouldn't we playing the strenghts of the personel we have?

At least untill we collect the talents we need to fully impliment the triangle?
With the East being fairly open for the last 3 spots or so, shouldn't we be focused on trying to WIN?

Calderon/CA could play well and fit in any system on OFF

The thing about the triangle is you must have a dominant POST presence that has the ability to

1- score 1v1
2- create double teams AND be able to past out of it (STAT showed he can score but is not a facilitator/passer)
3- have the shooters/good cuts/spacing, and probing to react how the defense plays them (in other words have high IQ, look to take high % shots, and create for others with catch and shoot)

UK Posters here must understand that the triangle limits the ability for guards, especially PG's, to penetrate and finish all the way as the post will usually have a help defender there due to the system

Guards can still penetrate but it is more about penetrating to draw defenders and dishing out to a shooter or cuttor
If they score, it is about using a pull up or jump shot, rather than penetrate all the way like majority of the entire NBA

The PnR is the most simple play to run and execute, while it is also the hardest to defend
THere is a reason why the entire league is running it, why should we limit ourselves to just the Triangle?

You underestimate the flexibility of the Triangle. Right now we have guys trying to learn to run the system which entails a lot of basic information. They have to get the spacing, timing, movement and passing down. Once they have the basic concepts they will understand how to freelance within the offense.

Also you have to understand that there are plenty of PnR two man game opportunities in the Triangle. They just don't focus the attack on the PnR. You also get a lot of give and go options. There are openings to freelance as well. It's just gonna take time for everyone to recognize the options.

This video from a court level view might be helpful to see how much motion is going on.
http://www.nba.com/knicks/video/2014/10/15/141014_CourtsideViewmp4/

NixLuva, read your own inputs on Larkin

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:
Yeah most of what I've read this year seems to be a lack of patience. We have to allow more than a few weeks for Larkin to get comfortable. I think once he is past the stage of trying to stick to the strict rules of the Triangle and realizes the ways he can score and let's his natural instincts take over, he'll be fine.

Hey if Phil Pressy makes Larkin look bad--then it's up to Shane to play up a level before the real deal starts. Give me a 13 point 6 assist game with less than 2 TO's

Meh! Pressey is in a different situation. I'm pretty sure Larkin would look more comfortable in a PnR based O which is his strong suit coming out of college. This system is totally different for him. In a PnR set he would be more aggressive since that is the nature of how a PG is expected to run a PnR play. Now he has to hold back his aggression, pass off and wait, read and react which is a totally different role.

Reading is fundamental. All I'm saying is that it's easier to just run PnR but that isn't what we want to do cuz when you face the better defenses they know how to take that away. The Triangle isn't overly dependent on the PnR even tho it can be an option in the offense. They're doing the right thing teaching Larkin how to be able to do more than run a PnR. If you don't see the benefits of this I don't know what to say.

nixluva wrote:

RonRon wrote:

nixluva wrote:

RonRon wrote:Larkin
JR Smith
STAT/AB

I just don't understand why we MUST run the triangle and the triangle alone
While, I do want the players on the roster to learn how to execute the system, I think the players above are PnR players with talents
Shouldn't we playing the strenghts of the personel we have?

At least untill we collect the talents we need to fully impliment the triangle?
With the East being fairly open for the last 3 spots or so, shouldn't we be focused on trying to WIN?

Calderon/CA could play well and fit in any system on OFF

The thing about the triangle is you must have a dominant POST presence that has the ability to

1- score 1v1
2- create double teams AND be able to past out of it (STAT showed he can score but is not a facilitator/passer)
3- have the shooters/good cuts/spacing, and probing to react how the defense plays them (in other words have high IQ, look to take high % shots, and create for others with catch and shoot)

UK Posters here must understand that the triangle limits the ability for guards, especially PG's, to penetrate and finish all the way as the post will usually have a help defender there due to the system

Guards can still penetrate but it is more about penetrating to draw defenders and dishing out to a shooter or cuttor
If they score, it is about using a pull up or jump shot, rather than penetrate all the way like majority of the entire NBA

The PnR is the most simple play to run and execute, while it is also the hardest to defend
THere is a reason why the entire league is running it, why should we limit ourselves to just the Triangle?

You underestimate the flexibility of the Triangle. Right now we have guys trying to learn to run the system which entails a lot of basic information. They have to get the spacing, timing, movement and passing down. Once they have the basic concepts they will understand how to freelance within the offense.

Also you have to understand that there are plenty of PnR two man game opportunities in the Triangle. They just don't focus the attack on the PnR. You also get a lot of give and go options. There are openings to freelance as well. It's just gonna take time for everyone to recognize the options.

This video from a court level view might be helpful to see how much motion is going on.
http://www.nba.com/knicks/video/2014/10/15/141014_CourtsideViewmp4/

NixLuva, read your own inputs on Larkin

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:
Yeah most of what I've read this year seems to be a lack of patience. We have to allow more than a few weeks for Larkin to get comfortable. I think once he is past the stage of trying to stick to the strict rules of the Triangle and realizes the ways he can score and let's his natural instincts take over, he'll be fine.

Hey if Phil Pressy makes Larkin look bad--then it's up to Shane to play up a level before the real deal starts. Give me a 13 point 6 assist game with less than 2 TO's

Meh! Pressey is in a different situation. I'm pretty sure Larkin would look more comfortable in a PnR based O which is his strong suit coming out of college. This system is totally different for him. In a PnR set he would be more aggressive since that is the nature of how a PG is expected to run a PnR play. Now he has to hold back his aggression, pass off and wait, read and react which is a totally different role.

Reading is fundamental. All I'm saying is that it's easier to just run PnR but that isn't what we want to do cuz when you face the better defenses they know how to take that away. The Triangle isn't overly dependent on the PnR even tho it can be an option in the offense. They're doing the right thing teaching Larkin how to be able to do more than run a PnR. If you don't see the benefits of this I don't know what to say.

No, all I am saying is you continue put a foot in your on ass
You can say Larkin would flourish in a PnR system

When I expanded to we should run PnR to suit the skills of our players more, I know nothing about the triangle
The lineup I suggested have players that struggle with the Triangle and PnR is run by EVERY OTHER team for a reason, IT WORKS

Larkin
Tim Hardaway JR
JR Smith
STAT/AB
PF/C, Center, or a any player that allows STAT or AB to play Center