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Celtics going to acquire Will bynum in salary dump
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CrushAlot
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10/19/2014  3:35 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Right there is our third PG upgrade. He can supplant the first two--maybe we can trade Ptigs and that gives us a legit back up vet PG with larkin able to watch or play big minutes in the D league.


1) There's a reason why a player this late into the offseason is available. Odds are that players still available at this point aren't truly going to be able to help a team. Young players not given an opportunity before is one thing, guys with a decent clip of minutes under their belt is another. Bynum is 31 years old. He's not a solution for the present or the future.

2) Prigioni has ZERO trade value. ZERO. Point guard has the lowest positional value in the league ( it's easy to replace them on most teams, though some how teams like the Knicks keep failing to find a real solution or driving said solutions off the team)

3) It is very difficult for a sub 6 foot point guard to thrive in the current NBA. Larkin does not possess the plus athleticism needed to overcome his lack of height and length. Players like Larkin are matchup hand grenades. In the RIGHT SITUATION AND TEAM, they can devastate another team. But in every other case, they will likely BLOW UP in the face of his own team. Larkin will likely be matchup dependent and roster dependent the rest of his career. I'm not saying he can't have success, I am saying he's not a player you can shift around like a Lego piece.

A couple of things. I think SVG is a big defense wins guy and Anthony fits that. In regards to Shane, the reason he is in the nba is because of his supreme athleticism. The guy is a freak. In regards to Pablo I think you are really underrating him. He is a guy that doesn't turn the ball over, moves the ball and hits the open shot. The guy is what championship teams want to have in their rotation.
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Splat
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10/19/2014  4:30 AM
I'm being a good sport and offering our crack baby a very long leash, because our Zen Maestro bequeathed upon us an extended contract conferring a longer term investment in said player.

Crack baby, I don't know how supreme his athletic abilities really are other than he skitters like a waterbug and gets to spots on the floor before the other mofos do.

But so far Shane often finds himself alone in the spot he skittered to with no idea about what to do next. Sometimes he pulls up his dribble for no reason and he gets surrounded by taller trees with nobody to throw the ball to.

Crack baby, you're still a hot mess, but sending you love and good vibrations. Work it out crack baby, work it out.

I've got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell!
earthmansurfer
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10/19/2014  8:47 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Right there is our third PG upgrade. He can supplant the first two--maybe we can trade Ptigs and that gives us a legit back up vet PG with larkin able to watch or play big minutes in the D league.


1) There's a reason why a player this late into the offseason is available. Odds are that players still available at this point aren't truly going to be able to help a team. Young players not given an opportunity before is one thing, guys with a decent clip of minutes under their belt is another. Bynum is 31 years old. He's not a solution for the present or the future.

2) Prigioni has ZERO trade value. ZERO. Point guard has the lowest positional value in the league ( it's easy to replace them on most teams, though some how teams like the Knicks keep failing to find a real solution or driving said solutions off the team)

3) It is very difficult for a sub 6 foot point guard to thrive in the current NBA. Larkin does not possess the plus athleticism needed to overcome his lack of height and length. Players like Larkin are matchup hand grenades. In the RIGHT SITUATION AND TEAM, they can devastate another team. But in every other case, they will likely BLOW UP in the face of his own team. Larkin will likely be matchup dependent and roster dependent the rest of his career. I'm not saying he can't have success, I am saying he's not a player you can shift around like a Lego piece.

Larkin has incredible athleticism, that is in part why he made it to the NBA. That said, he is a P&R PG, that is what he thrives in. I really wonder about his value on the team now. I loved the guy, but not in the triangle. A bit sad actually. I'm open to trading him but not sure we can get much value, we can't exactly show case him in this system.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
nixluva
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10/19/2014  1:34 PM
Shane has a 44" vertical and is one of the fastest players in the league!!! For comparison sake he ran the same sprint time as Russell Westbrook and despite being so short with short arms, his highest reach is only 3 inches less than Westbrook above the rim. Westbrook gets up to 11'4.5" and Shane 11'1.5". He is most certainly a freak athlete, so let's put that to bed. His issue is his height and short arms.

He is smart enough to not force things in traffic. I think he'll find his way to be more effective as he gets more comfortable with the system. It seems people are expecting a bit too much right away. Kid barely played as a rookie and now is in one of the tougher systems to master. A little bit of perspective would go a long way in understanding his struggles. No guard will be able to stay in front of him once he has figured it out and he has good court vision and passing ability. He already has the PnR game down and just has to learn the other aspects of the game. I like his chances of finding a role at this level.

BRIGGS
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10/19/2014  2:24 PM
nixluva wrote:Shane has a 44" vertical and is one of the fastest players in the league!!! For comparison sake he ran the same sprint time as Russell Westbrook and despite being so short with short arms, his highest reach is only 3 inches less than Westbrook above the rim. Westbrook gets up to 11'4.5" and Shane 11'1.5". He is most certainly a freak athlete, so let's put that to bed. His issue is his height and short arms.

He is smart enough to not force things in traffic. I think he'll find his way to be more effective as he gets more comfortable with the system. It seems people are expecting a bit too much right away. Kid barely played as a rookie and now is in one of the tougher systems to master. A little bit of perspective would go a long way in understanding his struggles. No guard will be able to stay in front of him once he has figured it out and he has good court vision and passing ability. He already has the PnR game down and just has to learn the other aspects of the game. I like his chances of finding a role at this level.

Will Bynum is a no brainer for us. He is proven and would give us what we need NOWin terms of a break down pg. His cost is 0. Iwant to try to win now. IF Larkin had proven himself say like napier has already I'd be more than happy to ride w youngin mistakes. Right now larkin really could stand developmental time in the d league quite simply 40 kin a night in the d is better than situational over matched min in the nba. We really need a back up Pg and there is no barrier to entry with bynum.

RIP Crushalot😞
mreinman
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10/19/2014  2:47 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
nixluva wrote:Shane has a 44" vertical and is one of the fastest players in the league!!! For comparison sake he ran the same sprint time as Russell Westbrook and despite being so short with short arms, his highest reach is only 3 inches less than Westbrook above the rim. Westbrook gets up to 11'4.5" and Shane 11'1.5". He is most certainly a freak athlete, so let's put that to bed. His issue is his height and short arms.

He is smart enough to not force things in traffic. I think he'll find his way to be more effective as he gets more comfortable with the system. It seems people are expecting a bit too much right away. Kid barely played as a rookie and now is in one of the tougher systems to master. A little bit of perspective would go a long way in understanding his struggles. No guard will be able to stay in front of him once he has figured it out and he has good court vision and passing ability. He already has the PnR game down and just has to learn the other aspects of the game. I like his chances of finding a role at this level.

Will Bynum is a no brainer for us. He is proven and would give us what we need NOWin terms of a break down pg. His cost is 0. Iwant to try to win now. IF Larkin had proven himself say like napier has already I'd be more than happy to ride w youngin mistakes. Right now larkin really could stand developmental time in the d league quite simply 40 kin a night in the d is better than situational over matched min in the nba. We really need a back up Pg and there is no barrier to entry with bynum.

the advanced metrics on him are pretty horrible. And, he can't shoot the 3 at all. Not sure why you believe that he puts us over the top.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
nixluva
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10/19/2014  2:54 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
nixluva wrote:Shane has a 44" vertical and is one of the fastest players in the league!!! For comparison sake he ran the same sprint time as Russell Westbrook and despite being so short with short arms, his highest reach is only 3 inches less than Westbrook above the rim. Westbrook gets up to 11'4.5" and Shane 11'1.5". He is most certainly a freak athlete, so let's put that to bed. His issue is his height and short arms.

He is smart enough to not force things in traffic. I think he'll find his way to be more effective as he gets more comfortable with the system. It seems people are expecting a bit too much right away. Kid barely played as a rookie and now is in one of the tougher systems to master. A little bit of perspective would go a long way in understanding his struggles. No guard will be able to stay in front of him once he has figured it out and he has good court vision and passing ability. He already has the PnR game down and just has to learn the other aspects of the game. I like his chances of finding a role at this level.

Will Bynum is a no brainer for us. He is proven and would give us what we need NOWin terms of a break down pg. His cost is 0. Iwant to try to win now. IF Larkin had proven himself say like napier has already I'd be more than happy to ride w youngin mistakes. Right now larkin really could stand developmental time in the d league quite simply 40 kin a night in the d is better than situational over matched min in the nba. We really need a back up Pg and there is no barrier to entry with bynum.


You're talking like you know Bynum will be able to pick up the Triangle better than Larkin. You really don't know that for sure. Bynum isn't a cerebral player. He's uses his physical talent more than his mental game to beat opponents. He's not a floor general at all. I don't know that he's the Triangle guard Prototype either. Mostly you want guys that are strong shooters and Bynum isn't really that.

I grant you that he's a strong finisher around the basket and can get to the rim, but that isn't really the most important thing in the Triangle. Think of all of Phil's guards and which of his PG's were really strong penetrators? I'd rather give Larkin a chance to grow into a role than add Bynum who doesn't show any of the things you would want in a triangle PG.

knickscity
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10/19/2014  3:17 PM
If he's truly getting waived, I wouldnt mind the Knicks considering it, but I do think Larkin is part of why Phil made the trade. I've said from the start that I'd want Fisher to implement an offense that fits his players, not necessarily the other way around.

While I'm not a fan of the triangle for this group, I do want to see it play out in games, but if it isnt working I dont want to see Fisher get stubborn trying to force it.

Adjust as needed.

RonRon
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10/19/2014  6:30 PM
nixluva wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
nixluva wrote:Shane has a 44" vertical and is one of the fastest players in the league!!! For comparison sake he ran the same sprint time as Russell Westbrook and despite being so short with short arms, his highest reach is only 3 inches less than Westbrook above the rim. Westbrook gets up to 11'4.5" and Shane 11'1.5". He is most certainly a freak athlete, so let's put that to bed. His issue is his height and short arms.

He is smart enough to not force things in traffic. I think he'll find his way to be more effective as he gets more comfortable with the system. It seems people are expecting a bit too much right away. Kid barely played as a rookie and now is in one of the tougher systems to master. A little bit of perspective would go a long way in understanding his struggles. No guard will be able to stay in front of him once he has figured it out and he has good court vision and passing ability. He already has the PnR game down and just has to learn the other aspects of the game. I like his chances of finding a role at this level.

Will Bynum is a no brainer for us. He is proven and would give us what we need NOWin terms of a break down pg. His cost is 0. Iwant to try to win now. IF Larkin had proven himself say like napier has already I'd be more than happy to ride w youngin mistakes. Right now larkin really could stand developmental time in the d league quite simply 40 kin a night in the d is better than situational over matched min in the nba. We really need a back up Pg and there is no barrier to entry with bynum.


You're talking like you know Bynum will be able to pick up the Triangle better than Larkin. You really don't know that for sure. Bynum isn't a cerebral player. He's uses his physical talent more than his mental game to beat opponents. He's not a floor general at all. I don't know that he's the Triangle guard Prototype either. Mostly you want guys that are strong shooters and Bynum isn't really that.

I grant you that he's a strong finisher around the basket and can get to the rim, but that isn't really the most important thing in the Triangle. Think of all of Phil's guards and which of his PG's were really strong penetrators? I'd rather give Larkin a chance to grow into a role than add Bynum who doesn't show any of the things you would want in a triangle PG.


He would be our best defender at the PG spot
Brings a toughness on both OFF and DEF, is strong, quick, can score and facilitate, he is a quality backup that has shown he can even start in the league when called upon
The arguement here is Bynum is a sure upgrade over Pablo and could even give time for Larkin to find his role to get comfortable


Pablo is a liability on both OFF and ,especially on DEF

On OFF, he doesn't have any ability to penetrate/finish and unwilling shooter, cause teams to cheat and he doesn't make them pay enough*

On DEF, he cannot defend any position and you can expect any player has the ability to destroy Pablo or at least make his team mates constantly help him every minute he is on the floor, even against backup and many 3rd stringers

nixluva
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10/19/2014  7:25 PM
I know it's easy to bash Pablo but in truth the facts say something far different


Career Off Rating Def Rating eFG
Prigs 121 108 +13 60.1%
Bynum 102 111 -9 46.0%

Prigs may pass up some shots but overall he's a far more efficient player and he's better defensively too. I think Bynum is a decent player but for this team I'm not sure he's a great fit. He does drive and finish much better than anyone we have, but will that make up for all the other areas where he's weak?

As for Larkin we don't know how he's progressing. He may look bad in the preseason games so far but that's not the whole story. The kid could show more progress with playing time. Fish is giving him a chance to see if he can get it going. We'll see how it goes.

Splat
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10/19/2014  7:32 PM
Awful lot of anti-Pablo comments lately frankly surprised me. At the very, very least we need him for depth at PG, but I do think he will be the guy who steadies this team when they need it sometimes.
I've got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell!
knickscity
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10/19/2014  7:35 PM
I like Pablo, I just believe the team needs more depth at the pg spot, due to the ages of our starter and backup and Larkin may not be ready for consistent minutes.
mreinman
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10/19/2014  7:39 PM
Splat wrote:Awful lot of anti-Pablo comments lately frankly surprised me. At the very, very least we need him for depth at PG, but I do think he will be the guy who steadies this team when they need it sometimes.

very under appreciated

so here is what phil is thinking ....
nixluva
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10/19/2014  7:40 PM
It's just easy to like a guy like Bynum cuz what he does looks more impressive when he drives and scores, but a deeper examination of his overall contributions and skills makes it clear he's not all he seems. Pablo isn't sexy at all, but his efficiency is unquestioned as I showed above. Pablo fits the Triangle and I don't believe Bynum does.
mreinman
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10/19/2014  7:41 PM
nixluva wrote:It's just easy to like a guy like Bynum cuz what he does looks more impressive when he drives and scores, but a deeper examination of his overall contributions and skills makes it clear he's not all he seems. Pablo isn't sexy at all, but his efficiency is unquestioned as I showed above. Pablo fits the Triangle and I don't believe Bynum does.

well said. Typical Eye Test Blindness.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
Splat
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10/19/2014  8:04 PM
A big plus is if we play Pablo + Jose & Sam + Jason at the same time we'd have a Double Paella Twin Tower lineup.
I've got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell!
Celtics going to acquire Will bynum in salary dump

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